Rip Sr71plt

[PennLady]

How many times will you take being called down, as you pay your respects to someone who has passed and admire? Would you really stand by quietly and not say a word?

Actually, yes. I have quite a few times. I don't see the point in defending myself on boards like this. I won't say I've never done it, because I have when I feel strongly enough about it. Mostly I've learned it's a waste of energy so I don't do it often.

But for things like this, for me it comes down to: why do you care what X says?

 

[RoyceConnors]

I suppose I run the risk of being trolled or whatever, but -- sr71 has not attacked Clancy, in this or any of the other threads that I have read. Stating an unpleasant truth may be a bit tacky, but it isn't about dishonoring anyone and doesn't make the fact any less true.

sr71 has made posts where he notes his condolences for Clancy's family, etc. He has not said anything about Clancy being a bad person, and neither has anyone else.

However, it may be that Clancy is in fact, not a great writer. Personally I have never finished any of his books, and I tried reading Red October three times. I did some googling and it is clear that he did not do all the writing on his own, and it is not hidden; many results, for example, state upfront that Larry Bond co-wrote Red Storm Rising. Some of the other statements, such as Jim Sutton writing Red October I couldn't verify except to find quotes that Sutton "worked closely" with Clancy on the book, things like that. Maybe that's some sort of industry code, I don't know.

It's also clear that for series such as Op Center or Rainbow Six, it's Clancy's in name only, but again, it's not like anyone's hiding that.

Whatever else, it does appear that Clancy made the most of his opportunities, and I don't think anyone begrudges him that. I certainly don't.

A time and place for it, PL. A tribute thread to a man's passing is certainly not the time and place to insult him and his work. I know there have been numerous discussions involving Clancy's work and he could have shed his light on everything then, but not when the man has just died. He made one small comment on his passing, but it lacked anything of merit to it. He went on a binge of disclaimers and insults afterward and refused to acknowledge a civil adherence of respect for the dead.

 

[TxRad]

A time and place for it, PL. A tribute thread to a man's passing is certainly not the time and place to insult him and his work. I know there have been numerous discussions involving Clancy's work and he could have shed his light on everything then, but not when the man has just died. He made one small comment on his passing, but it lacked anything of merit to it. He went on a binge of disclaimers and insults afterward and refused to acknowledge a civil adherence of respect for the dead.

When is the truth an insult? It is simply the truth.

I think Pennlady said it all a few posts back.

Also, Pilot is giving you a look at where you want to go, if you want to be a writer. The industry can make you or break you and it has nothing to do with your skill as a writer or a storyteller. If nothing else, remember that.

Yeah, Pilot is abrasive and over the top but and this is a big but, He is right about the publishing business. So if you are smart, you'll listen.

 

[Recidiva]

When is the truth an insult? It is simply the truth.

I think Pennlady said it all a few posts back.

Also, Pilot is giving you a look at where you want to go, if you want to be a writer. The industry can make you or break you and it has nothing to do with your skill as a writer or a storyteller. If nothing else, remember that.

Yeah, Pilot is abrasive and over the top but and this is a big but, He is right about the publishing business. So if you are smart, you'll listen.

Being in the publishing business can teach what he has to say while being the actual authority. He is not The Authority.

Regardless of the contents, if the package is in fact mostly packaging it isn't worth digging through. I am smart but I don't need to listen, how you say something is important as well as what you say.

You'd think that as a writer, he'd know that.

 

[RoyceConnors]

When is the truth an insult? It is simply the truth.

I think Pennlady said it all a few posts back.

Also, Pilot is giving you a look at where you want to go, if you want to be a writer. The industry can make you or break you and it has nothing to do with your skill as a writer or a storyteller. If nothing else, remember that.

Yeah, Pilot is abrasive and over the top but and this is a big but, He is right about the publishing business. So if you are smart, you'll listen.

Being a writer and getting published is not what the thread was about Tx, it's about paying respects to a man who has passed. I understand full well how the industry works, but slamming a dead man the day he died, is a tasteless and undeserving thing to do.

I know how abrasive plt can be, but this was above and beyond anything he has done before. To post that you enjoyed his stories and have plt attack you is one thing, but to say you are sorry at his passing and have him attack you and call you names is just the lowest of the low. He is stating that Clancy doesn't deserve the respect for what he did and that's just wrong, period.

I will NEVER accept that disrespect for a person upon their death.

 

[Recidiva]

Being a writer and getting published is not what the thread was about Tx, it's about paying respects to a man who has passed. I understand full well how the industry works, but slamming a dead man the day he died, is a tasteless and undeserving thing to do.

I know how abrasive plt can be, but this was above and beyond anything he has done before. To post that you enjoyed his stories and have plt attack you is one thing, but to say you are sorry at his passing and have him attack you and call you names is just the lowest of the low. He is stating that Clancy doesn't deserve the respect for what he did and that's just wrong, period.

I will NEVER accept that disrespect for a person upon their death.

Tom Clancy had an audience. It is not strictly that he had a good publisher that his novels were a success.

Deciding to be the arbiter of good taste over a dead man's collective creativity in a lifetime is not, in fact, just being honest about the man or the industry. It's discrediting people who feel differently and think differently and blaming everybody else's taste level in favor of the Authority.

I get more than a little sick of the assumed mantle of the authority, and although it intrudes into all quarters of opinion, you would think that, yes, another person's tribute thread after death isn't the place to discuss how much better of a writer any living person might be. Because the thrust of the matter is not dead writer or living writer but DEAD.

 

[TxRad]

Being a writer and getting published is not what the thread was about Tx, it's about paying respects to a man who has passed. I understand full well how the industry works, but slamming a dead man the day he died, is a tasteless and undeserving thing to do.

I know how abrasive plt can be, but this was above and beyond anything he has done before. To post that you enjoyed his stories and have plt attack you is one thing, but to say you are sorry at his passing and have him attack you and call you names is just the lowest of the low. He is stating that Clancy doesn't deserve the respect for what he did and that's just wrong, period.

I will NEVER accept that disrespect for a person upon their death.

You need to work on your reading skills. You read a lot into what others write that isn't there.

 

[hoo_hoo_boo]

I do not know enough to comment on the details in your posting, but I have to say that I think it is truly bad form to put it on the board.
This sort of thing is the best reason yet seen for a moderator.
Sorry, it's just how it strikes me

Thank you Handley Page.

Pilot has been wonderful to me, giving me a lot of help with my use of language. He is one of the very few who would bother. He has always been sincere and has always been generous. He always has the courage to be honest with his opinions and been gracious in his hunt for integrity.

I'd very much like this thread taken down because it is miserable, mean and undeserved.
Thank you

 

[RoyceConnors]

You need to work on your reading skills. You read a lot into what others write that isn't there.

You read BOTH threads about Clancy and plt has done nothing but insult the man and everyone paying their respects to him. I read quite well, tyvm.

 

[TxRad]

You read BOTH threads about Clancy and plt has done nothing but insult the man and everyone paying their respects to him. I read quite well, tyvm.

The truth is not an insult, it is simply the truth. Get over it.

 

[Catchalot]

The truth is not an insult, it is simply the truth. Get over it.

Uh, just because pilot says it, doesn't make it the truth. Start posting links to all this truth, and people might start believing it.

 

[sr71plt]

Uh, just because pilot says it, doesn't make it the truth. Start posting links to all this truth, and people might start believing it.

I did suggest that folks check it out themselves several times.

If I'm dead, I certainly hope I get praise here for having built the Eiffel Tower and for being the world's foremost authority on bird calls. I didn't do that, of course, but since I'm dead, I certainly think I should be praised for it rather than give a nod to those who actually did that--because, you know, they aren't the ones whose death is being discussed.

Which, rather, was my point. My only point.

 

[Catchalot]

I did suggest that folks check it out themselves several times.

If I'm dead, I certainly hope I get praise here for having built the Eiffel Tower and for being the world's foremost authority on bird calls. I didn't do that, of course, but since I'm dead, I certainly think I should be praised for it rather than give a nod to those who actually did that--because, you know, they aren't the ones whose death is being discussed.

Which, rather, was my point. My only point.

Thanks for the proof and for blowing smoke up our asses. You said it, you prove it. I already wasted my time trying to find this "Readily available" BS of yours, and I never found it.

Do us a favor, put up, or shut up. You post some credible facts, and I'll gladly admit I was wrong.

 

[slyc_willie]

Uh, just because pilot says it, doesn't make it the truth. Start posting links to all this truth, and people might start believing it.

Here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostwriter (read under the "Fiction" section)

http://joecliffordfaust.com/2010/06/10/ghostwriters-in-disguise-part-i/

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/09/03/1031037088079.html

The truth shall set you free . . . if you bother to look for it.

As for this particular thread, it should be renamed R.I.P. RoyceConnors' sense of decorum and maturity.

 

[RoyceConnors]

The truth is not an insult, it is simply the truth. Get over it.

I did suggest that folks check it out themselves several times.

If I'm dead, I certainly hope I get praise here for having built the Eiffel Tower and for being the world's foremost authority on bird calls. I didn't do that, of course, but since I'm dead, I certainly think I should be praised for it rather than give a nod to those who actually did that--because, you know, they aren't the ones whose death is being discussed.

Which, rather, was my point. My only point.

What point is there in insulting a dead man? Show some respect for the man, is all I asked for. Such a hard thing for some people to do.

 

[ScouriesWorld]

he is who he is...

http://media.tumblr.com/a357c2c89c9132c6c6a0279d76cae2f3/tumblr_inline_moyythNmh61qz4rgp.jpg
enough said...​

except perhaps to wonder about about his schools pitiful football team...

 

[Catchalot]

Here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostwriter (read under the "Fiction" section)

http://joecliffordfaust.com/2010/06/10/ghostwriters-in-disguise-part-i/

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/09/03/1031037088079.html

The truth shall set you free . . . if you bother to look for it.

As for this particular thread, it should be renamed R.I.P. RoyceConnors' sense of decorum and maturity.

Nice try, all that does is back up something I never argued about. It doesn't even back up pilots claim Bond ghost wrote Red Storm Rising, it claims he co-wrote it. Even your first link claims Clancy gave his co-authors credit on the cover.

Many of action writer Tom Clancy's books from the 2000s bear the names of two people on their covers, with Clancy's name in larger print and the other author's name in smaller print. Various books bearing Clancy's name were written by different authors under the same pseudonym.

None of that backs up pilots claims. Show me where it says Jim Sutton rewrote The Hunt for Red October. Hell, show us where it explains how the Navel Institute actually did all the work and just gave all that fame and fortune to an insurance salesman, like pilot claims.

 

[sr71plt]

Thanks for the proof and for blowing smoke up our asses. You said it, you prove it. I already wasted my time trying to find this "Readily available" BS of yours, and I never found it.

Do us a favor, put up, or shut up. You post some credible facts, and I'll gladly admit I was wrong.

No, I didn't think you'd bother to check it out for yourself--or to deign to acknowledge that I didn't just say it as my truth, but told people to check it out.

That doesn't suit your feeding frenzy--and you don't really want to know what you'd find out. It's just easier to misrepresent what I'm saying and to lay into me.

 

[sr71plt]

except perhaps to wonder about about his schools pitiful football team...

Yeah, they certainly sucked yesterday. Couldn't wait to perform the next penalty.

 

[Saiyaman]

It's not in my nature to kick a man when he's down but every single thread I started on planes, he was there to push it in my face that it had nothing to do with erotica.

I got the message already, no need to repeat it.

I got the message and i chose to ignore it, knowing that there are plenty of people who DO enjoy my aircraft threads.

 

[Catchalot]

No, I didn't think you'd bother to check it out for yourself--or to deign to acknowledge that I didn't just say it as my truth, but told people to check it out.

That doesn't suit your feeding frenzy--and you don't really want to know what you'd find out. It's just easier to misrepresent what I'm saying and to lay into me.

You're joking, right? Why cant you just post a link backing up what you said? You can sit there claiming I haven't searched, and its really hard to prove I have, when I can't find crap about Jim Sutton ever writing anything, let alone rewriting The Hunt for Red October.

He was the director of sales and marketing at the Naval press, and you actually claim he wrote books. (I'm not saying he never wrote a book, I just can't seem to find one.)

He was spoon fed all of the military stuff, initially by his next-door neighbor, who was a naval expert and author who connected him with the naval war game that was the basis for the book, later by a whole bunch of naval experts happy to be paid to help him.

Are you seriously saying a person can't get input (I call it research, but apparently you call it cheating) to help write a book? Are you really claiming that if I want to write about the F-22 Raptor, and I pay a pilot for his time while he explains it to me, he should be the one credited for my story?

Yeah, you haven't really proved anything, accept that you can't or won't back up what you're saying. You just tell everyone to go look it up.

 

[patientlee]

I tried reading one of Clancy's and put it down 100 pages in. However, my father hadn't read a single book in his post-high-school life (and I wouldn't be surprised that he didn't read a single one before HS either. ) When he was in his 40's, a buddy suggested that he read The Hunt for Red October. He saw the movie first, and then bit the bullet and started to read. It took him months, but he read it and loved it. In the last 20 years, he has read a couple hundred books.

No matter what Clancy did or didn't do, that book changed my father's life. A non-reader might think it's a small change, like getting a cable tv package with twice the channels. Book lovers know the truth.

 

[sr71plt]

You're determined not to believe anything I post, Catchalot. And that doesn't particularly bother me. So, if you want whatever proof you need, you obviously are going to have to get it yourself. I don't think you really care, though, so I won't either.

I did the work to find out what is what. If you want to live in ignorance, that's your problem, not mine. It doesn't change the truth whatsoever.

 

[Catchalot]

Here's a nice new link about Clancy, too bad everyone they quoted was lying, right pilot? I mean you're in the know, and these people aren't.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/arts/boo...cy-has-died/lCA6Ffx2Zr5oqb2Dgk2xvJ/story.html

 

[emap]

This is amusing and all, but I had to check twice that I was not in GB. Come on this is pathetic.