Reverence

[matriarch]

That is where my thoughts lay. Rememberance Sunday sets too much store on past wars... honourable though it is to remember all the fallen, I'm ready for a shift in emphasis.

Loathe though I am to disagree with you, however minor, Remembrance Sunday is specifically to remember the dead in all wars. Remembrance day/Armistice Day, November 11th, is specific to the 1st world wars.

 

[torchthebitch]

That is where my thoughts lay. Rememberance Sunday sets too much store on past wars... honourable though it is to remember all the fallen, I'm ready for a shift in emphasis.

Forget then. The sins of the father shall be visited on the forthcoming generations.

Remeberance was instituted for a reason by those who understood. Todays soldiers don't limit themselves in their remebering.

Remember too, those who grieve for the fallen. I remember my Grandfather. One of three brothers who served in WWI and the only one to survive. My Great Uncle Robert fell at the Somme on 1 July 1916. My Great Uncle James fell in 1918. My Great Aunt's husband died of his wounds having been gassed. She never remarried. My Grandfater only survived because his wounds rendered him unfit for frontline service.

The men who paraded on sunday remembered the fallen of the inter-war conflicts, Korea, Borneo, Malaya. Northern Ireland, Suez, Yemen, Aden, Sierra Leone, the Falklands, and too many more.

I served for 29 years. My son has taken up arms, much to my chagrin.

Remember them all, their families, and especially the wounded.

 

[torchthebitch]

Remembrance only matters if it is accompanied with a pledge to never allow the mistakes or atrocities of the past to ever happen again. Yesterday was the anniversary of Kristallnacht, yet not a thread was devoted to it. Few Americans today mark December 7th as a day that still lives in infamy and each year fewer observe Sept. 11th. Jingoism reigns over patriotism.

There was elsewhere. And we discussed Niemoller and his initial support for Hitler.

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists
and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me -
and by then there was no one left to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

 

[torchthebitch]

The Night of Broken Glass

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=624810

 

[English Lady]

I blogged about this on Sunday, here's what I wrote:

I wore my paper poppy in church today, a sea of other poppies faced me during a touching service which gives us the time to remember those who have died in war over the years.

I do not have any close memories of war, I’ve never had a friend, relation or lover go to war or die in war past or present. I count myself lucky in that. But many of the people in church today were thinking of loved ones lost, and I keenly felt their grief.

We stood outside in the whipping cold wind, the sky grey and overcast and we remembered them. I stood huddled with my friend, she is 86 and very much remembers the Second World War and it’s atrocities. She knows loss and as we clung together I looked at the Lichgate.

The Lichgate is a war memorial and on its walls are written are the names of men lost on both wars who lived in the Parish. To me they are only names, but they were fathers and sons and brothers as well as friends, husbands and boyfriends and their passing will have been felt keenly. I felt but a second of that as I stood there, thinking in the cold. Tears rolled down my cheeks in sadness.

II remember in secondary school reading Journey’s End by RC Sheriff in English Class. I played Stanhope, though we just sat in our seats to read it. It is a play set in the trenches in France back in the First World War. It’s a fascinating look into the emotions and feelings of these officers from loyalty to pride, to hopelessness and loneliness and fear.

I was deeply affected by it at the time, appalled by the reality of war. I always remember that play on Remembrance Day. For me, it was just words, a story but for many people it was reality, it was how they lived and how they died. Today I remember those people as I look down at my blood red poppy. I remember them with thankfulness. I remember them with sadness.

We will remember them, always.

 

[oggbashan]

My eldest aunt (the suffragist) lost her fiancé on the Western Front. She never married saying "The good ones died. Those that were left were already taken, damaged or not worth considering."

My parents, then aged 11 and 9, lost their homes when a Zeppelin dropped a bomb on London in 1916.

One of my wife's uncles was killed at Walcheren in World War 2. My youngest uncle was severely handicapped during that war. He married his nurse and they lived happily. Unlike his brothers he didn't care for promotion or self-improvement - just living reasonably with a smile on his face.

My father spent much of World War 2 sitting on an ammunition dump waiting for a bomb to hit it. Although a civilian he was heavily involved with D-Day, Korea and Suez, although he would never talk about any of them. He did remember friends he had lost in World War 2, Korea, Suez and many other conflicts since 1945.

I'll never forget - nor will I forget those who are still dying.

Og

 

[ishtat]

My wife's Great grandfather(Devon Regiment) was killed at the Battle of Loos in 1915.

The officer who wrote the history of the Devon regiment after the war commented that in hindsight it was perhaps regretable that the men had no musketry training and had relied on practicing with wooden weapons.The Colonel of the regiment was killed within 20 minutes of the battle starting and 3 companies were totally wiped out within 90 minutes.
But what criminals asked these men to train with wooden weapons and gave them as leaders officers who still talked of muskets .

 

[torchthebitch]

My wife's Great grandfather(Devon Regiment) was killed at the Battle of Loos in 1915.

The officer who wrote the history of the Devon regiment after the war commented that in hindsight it was perhaps regretable that the men had no musketry training and had relied on practicing with wooden weapons.The Colonel of the regiment was killed within 20 minutes of the battle starting and 3 companies were totally wiped out within 90 minutes.
But what criminals asked these men to train with wooden weapons and gave them as leaders officers who still talked of muskets .

Bad news for you, I left the army 18 months ago. I still call it musketry, cos that's the proper name for the totality of the skills.

ETA. And I call them bunduqs, jezzails, and "pointy-sticks" and talk of doing my dohbi-ing

 

[torchthebitch]

My eldest aunt (the suffragist) lost her fiancé on the Western Front. She never married saying "The good ones died. Those that were left were already taken, damaged or not worth considering."

My parents, then aged 11 and 9, lost their homes when a Zeppelin dropped a bomb on London in 1916.

One of my wife's uncles was killed at Walcheren in World War 2. My youngest uncle was severely handicapped during that war. He married his nurse and they lived happily. Unlike his brothers he didn't care for promotion or self-improvement - just living reasonably with a smile on his face.

My father spent much of World War 2 sitting on an ammunition dump waiting for a bomb to hit it. Although a civilian he was heavily involved with D-Day, Korea and Suez, although he would never talk about any of them. He did remember friends he had lost in World War 2, Korea, Suez and many other conflicts since 1945.

I'll never forget - nor will I forget those who are still dying.

Og

Not only was my grandfather the only one of the brothers to survive his service, but his brother in law died of wounds and his sister never remarried either.

The only reason my grandfather survived was because he was invalided out as a result of being hit by shellfire while driving an ambulance.

My other grandfatherwas RN in the First and Merch on the Atlantic Convoys in the Second

 

[starrkers]

Not only was my grandfather the only one of the brothers to survive his service, but his brother in law died of wounds and his sister never remarried either.

The only reason my grandfather survived was because he was invalided out as a result of being hit by shellfire while driving an ambulance.

My other grandfatherwas RN in the First and Merch on the Atlantic Convoys in the Second

My father was flying over your grandfather, on submarine patrol in the Atlantic.

 

[neonlyte]

Loathe though I am to disagree with you, however minor, Remembrance Sunday is specifically to remember the dead in all wars. Remembrance day/Armistice Day, November 11th, is specific to the 1st world wars.

Late.ish reply.

Of course... there are two commemorations. That might have been why I was a little perplexed on Sunday (I knew it wasn't the 11th).

I can only assume the bulk of foreigners passing through Stansted were better informed than me since most of them stood in silent tribute.

 

[neonlyte]

Forget then. The sins of the father shall be visited on the forthcoming generations.

Remeberance was instituted for a reason by those who understood. Todays soldiers don't limit themselves in their remebering.

Remember too, those who grieve for the fallen. I remember my Grandfather. One of three brothers who served in WWI and the only one to survive. My Great Uncle Robert fell at the Somme on 1 July 1916. My Great Uncle James fell in 1918. My Great Aunt's husband died of his wounds having been gassed. She never remarried. My Grandfater only survived because his wounds rendered him unfit for frontline service.

The men who paraded on sunday remembered the fallen of the inter-war conflicts, Korea, Borneo, Malaya. Northern Ireland, Suez, Yemen, Aden, Sierra Leone, the Falklands, and too many more.

I served for 29 years. My son has taken up arms, much to my chagrin.

Remember them all, their families, and especially the wounded.

I do remember them all. I remember them most days despite never having a military man in the family.

I remember the conscripted soldiers who fought the Portuguese colonial wars in the 70's. Boys' for the most part sent to the jungles of Mozambique and Angola to fight a war they never wanted and still less believe they could win. I remember the bill sent to the Portuguese after the First World War for munitions. £40m for fighting with the British with nought but bodies to cast as spoil. They couldn't pay the bill and retreated into 60 years of repression under a dictator who decided raping the colonies was financially more rewarding.

I rememebr the retreat from Mozambique and the order to destroy the infrastructure and fill the sewers with concrete.

I remember lost friends minds torn apart by the hostility of what they witnessed in the jungles. And I rememeber a country that rebelled against a dictator and wrenched back it's freedom without spilling a drop of blood.

I remember the biggest sin was with those who held power and wonder at how they slept at night.

 

[trysail]

Russo-British effort to save historic battleship
http://mnweekly.rian.ru/local/20081106/55355343.html

06/11/2008
In the darkest days of the Second World War she saw off Nazi U-boats in the icy waters of the Arctic Ocean, but now British battleship HMS Belfast is facing a new fight - against time. And Russian businesses are rallying round to help save a precious piece of Russo-British military history as the ‘Last Witness' appeal gains ground.

HMS Belfast, which came into naval service in 1938, is hailed as the last surviving vessel from the war. Preserved as a museum on the River Thames in London, she attracts thousands of visitors every year. But rust is slowly destroying her two massive metal masts, and these need urgently replacing at a cost of around US$2 million.

Which is where Russia comes in: fundraising efforts in the Russian business community have already netted US$400,000 towards the fund. Moreover, the replacement masts are due to be built in the White Sea port Severodvinsk, close to Arkhangelsk where the Arctic Convoys landed their precious cargoes of vitally-needed military hardware to help the Red Army repel Hitler's attack. Those hard-fought convoys, which risked icy collisions in perpetual darkness through the winter and were exposed to air attack in the endless daylight of summer, also followed the route of the first British explorers to reach Russia's White Sea coast during the time of Elizabeth I and Ivan the Terrible.

The fund-raising drive, overseen by Britain's Imperial War Museum, is intended to have a Russian flavor. Companies such as steel giants Severstal and energy firm Rosneftgazstroy are contributing funds and expertise, while Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov has offered his support. "This project symbolizes the common will of the Allies fighting shoulder to shoulder against Nazism," he said. "We remember those heroic days when hundreds of thousands of sailors and soldiers were struggling for freedom despite numerous losses.

We remember all of those who gave their lives during that battle."

Now the Russo-British Chamber of Commerce, which has centers in London, Moscow and St Petersburg, is getting involved in the campaign. The London branch is holding its regular networking evening on the warship on November 12, where HRH Prince Michael of Kent is expected to attend. And, as HMS Belfast director Brad King explains, there is real hope that Russia's growing business interests in the UK will help complete the fund-raising drive and save this iconic vessel. "We appeal to our business friends from Russia to help and support the ship so there will be an even greater part of Russia in London," he said. "Don't just witness history - be part of it!"

By Andy Potts

 

[torchthebitch]

My father was flying over your grandfather, on submarine patrol in the Atlantic.

A lot of them flew from bases here. Just to get that little bit of extra range.

 

[torchthebitch]

Russo-British effort to save historic battleship
http://mnweekly.rian.ru/local/20081106/55355343.html

06/11/2008
In the darkest days of the Second World War she saw off Nazi U-boats in the icy waters of the Arctic Ocean, but now British battleship HMS Belfast is facing a new fight - against time. And Russian businesses are rallying round to help save a precious piece of Russo-British military history as the ‘Last Witness' appeal gains ground.

HMS Belfast, which came into naval service in 1938, is hailed as the last surviving vessel from the war. Preserved as a museum on the River Thames in London, she attracts thousands of visitors every year. But rust is slowly destroying her two massive metal masts, and these need urgently replacing at a cost of around US$2 million.

Which is where Russia comes in: fundraising efforts in the Russian business community have already netted US$400,000 towards the fund. Moreover, the replacement masts are due to be built in the White Sea port Severodvinsk, close to Arkhangelsk where the Arctic Convoys landed their precious cargoes of vitally-needed military hardware to help the Red Army repel Hitler's attack. Those hard-fought convoys, which risked icy collisions in perpetual darkness through the winter and were exposed to air attack in the endless daylight of summer, also followed the route of the first British explorers to reach Russia's White Sea coast during the time of Elizabeth I and Ivan the Terrible.

The fund-raising drive, overseen by Britain's Imperial War Museum, is intended to have a Russian flavor. Companies such as steel giants Severstal and energy firm Rosneftgazstroy are contributing funds and expertise, while Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov has offered his support. "This project symbolizes the common will of the Allies fighting shoulder to shoulder against Nazism," he said. "We remember those heroic days when hundreds of thousands of sailors and soldiers were struggling for freedom despite numerous losses.

We remember all of those who gave their lives during that battle."

Now the Russo-British Chamber of Commerce, which has centers in London, Moscow and St Petersburg, is getting involved in the campaign. The London branch is holding its regular networking evening on the warship on November 12, where HRH Prince Michael of Kent is expected to attend. And, as HMS Belfast director Brad King explains, there is real hope that Russia's growing business interests in the UK will help complete the fund-raising drive and save this iconic vessel. "We appeal to our business friends from Russia to help and support the ship so there will be an even greater part of Russia in London," he said. "Don't just witness history - be part of it!"

By Andy Potts

HMS Belfast is the last British WWII cruiser. The last WWI cruiser is docked in Belfast

 

[oggbashan]

Russo-British effort to save historic battleship
http://mnweekly.rian.ru/local/20081106/55355343.html

06/11/2008
In the darkest days of the Second World War she saw off Nazi U-boats in the icy waters of the Arctic Ocean, but now British battleship HMS Belfast is facing a new fight - against time...

HMS Belfast is a cruiser, not a battleship.

The last British Battleship was HMS Vanguard, scrapped 1960.

However at Portsmouth are HMS Victory - a surviving line-of-battleship - and HMS Warrior (1861) - the first sea-going iron battleship - both open to the public.

Og

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

We remember the war dead, not to honor them, because we cannot increase or deplete the honor they earned, but to remind ourselves that we are entirely responsible for sending them to their deaths, and they honor us by going.

The occasion exists to remind us to think about what we do.

 

[trysail]

HMS Belfast is the last British WWII cruiser. The last WWI cruiser is docked in Belfast

Duly noted. Good catch. The journalist responsible for the error: one Mr. Andy Potts. Any idea of the name of the WWI cruiser docked in Belfast?

HMS Belfast is a cruiser, not a battleship.
The last British Battleship was HMS Vanguard, scrapped 1960.

However at Portsmouth are HMS Victory - a surviving line-of-battleship - and HMS Warrior (1861) - the first sea-going iron battleship - both open to the public.

Og

Og,
I've been aboard all three vessels at one point or another. You weren't alone in spotting the journalist's error.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1314/1110835784_ebc30a3577_o.jpg​

 

[oggbashan]

... Any idea of the name of the WWI cruiser docked in Belfast?

HMS Caroline - the last surviving ship from the Battle of Jutland.

Henry Allingham is the only surviving person who was present at that battle.

Og

 

[torchthebitch]

HMS Caroline - the last surviving ship from the Battle of Jutland.

Henry Allingham is the only surviving person who was present at that battle.

Og

AKA "The Neverbudge"

I'm told she's filled with concrete. Part of her superstructure has been replaced with something that looks like a garden shed. She is the RNR and RNVR Training HQ in N.I. My friend had his wedding reception onboard, (He was Lt RNVR). It is still in good condition for the most part and is technically still in commision.

 

[trysail]

Robert K. Massie's riveting Dreadnought and the less captivating but still quite readable sequel, Castles of Steel, are wonderful accounts of fin de siècle Europe, Kaiser Wilhelm's congenital inferiority complex, his consequent rivalry with his cousins, Jacky Fisher's development of the dreadnoughts, the inertial events leading to WWI and Jutland— all of which can have the effect of making one thankful to have the luxury of reading history rather than living it.

 

[oggbashan]

AKA "The Neverbudge"

I'm told she's filled with concrete. Part of her superstructure has been replaced with something that looks like a garden shed. She is the RNR and RNVR Training HQ in N.I. My friend had his wedding reception onboard, (He was Lt RNVR). It is still in good condition for the most part and is technically still in commision.

When you visit HMS Warrior it is difficult to realise that she spent many years as a pontoon for an oil terminal.

HMS Caroline could be restored if the money was available.

Og

 

[starrkers]

We remember the war dead, not to honor them, because we cannot increase or deplete the honor they earned, but to remind ourselves that we are entirely responsible for sending them to their deaths, and they honor us by going.

The occasion exists to remind us to think about what we do.

Well said.