Revelation about Ratings

[mirafrida]

I can say confidently that I find story ratings somewhat helpful in choosing stories to read. I would be sorry to see them go.

I'm of two minds of this. Do I, as a reader, use ratings? Yes. Do I find them helpful in finding stories I like. Um... marginally, I guess, largely because in the absence of anything better it's what I have.

What I really want is the intersection of "very good" (well written, original, thoughtful, interesting, serious about character development, etc.) and "hits my fantasy likes very solidly." Personally, ratings don't take me very far in achieving that - largely, I believe, because the two concepts are melded together in that one number in some very random way. Ultimately the "system" as a whole (ratings+category) is so hit and miss that I've mostly given up trying. That frustration is probably what drove me toward writing in the first place.

Admittedly, I don't know that I could design a better system. But I when I sometimes dip back in the pool, I find myself clicking so many "4.5" stories that are, honestly, incredibly crappy. And conversely, of the stories I like, a lot are 4.4+, but a number are 3.8-4.2 range. So I think ultimately the ratings steer me, and readers, astray nearly as often as the help. I suspect there might be a substantial pool of 4.1 stories out there I would really enjoy but tend to discount up front - because even though I don't trust ratings, I, like most people, still tend to see 4.1 and sublimally assume "it's been judged low quality, not worth bothering with."

Maybe part of the equation here is that my "likes" are somewhat off the mainstream. I don't know, I go back and forth about how balkanized erotica preferences are. Perhaps for the most vanilla reader out there, ratings will be more helpful.

 

[XerXesXu]

Say my stories mentioned above each had 100 votes, so the random noise in each score is about 1.00/sqrt(100) = +/- 0.10. I can't reliably say that the 4.50 is doing better than the 4.40 or worse than the 4.60; those differences are small enough to be pure chance. I can probably say that the 4.60 is better than the 4.40 though.

That's the quantitative, now do the qualitative.

If you seek attention, whether good (SD) or bad (LC), there are those with clear strategies to successfully fish for it. The only way to form an opinion whether A writes more to your liking than B is to read samples of each, sit down, write out your criteria and compare and contrast.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I wish Literotica kept stats for multi-page stories like "What percentage read all the pages including the last one?" That would actually tell us how many people finished those stories.

-Billie

I'm not sure if it's technically possible to determine how many people click on a story and then actually read it. I'm not very techie, but it would probably depend on on long they keep the file open. Does anybody have any ideas of how that could work?

 

[gunhilltrain]

Because the sample size is small I don't believe that means the vote total is wildly inaccurate. The national polls on politics and other things are usually pretty damned accurate even if they are infinitesimally small compared to the overall population. I would argue it is the same with votes on a story.

And I think you missed one other piece that works into this: the readers that do vote and why they vote.

From experience on other websites that do post what each vote is, I can say you rarely if ever will get a vote other than the top and bottom. Here it's a 1 or a 5. On another site I have posted stories to, it is a 1 or a 10. I have 34 stories posted there and I can count on the fingers of one hand votes other than a 1 or a 10.

The reason I went through that explanation was to say this: You only get 2 kinds of readers that vote (discounting the odd troll or two) on a story, those who utterly love it and those who utterly hate it. The higher a score is on a story the more "love it" readers voted. Even though the sample is small, you can reasonably extrapolate from that (just like a national poll) that most of those who read it liked it too.

Now a couple of questions for anyone willing to answer: If you as an author do not believe the votes mean anything, why keep them active? If you do not believe votes mean anything as to the quality of a story, what metric do you feel should be used to measure that?

Personally, I think the readers are the best and only metric to use. And I can't think of another way to do it other than voting. Can you?



Comshaw

As Hyman Roth (Lee Strasberg) says in Godfather II, "This is the business we have chosen." Lit is a mass medium. Those metrics are all we have to go by. If fifty people vote and the score is above a 4.00 or so, then I accept that as the only sign of success that I'm ever going to get.

 

[alohadave]

I'm not sure if it's technically possible to determine how many people click on a story and then actually read it. I'm not very techie, but it would probably depend on on long they keep the file open. Does anybody have any ideas of how that could work?

The only real way to do it would be to have something that you interact with on the page when you get to the end. Getting into page view times gets really into the weeds and it doesn't help the site serve stories to readers.

What we are discussing here ultimately doesn't matter that much to the site or readers. They've decided that what is in place is good enough and making a change isn't worth their time and energy to appease authors.

Would I like to have more reader data? Sure. I'm a small time number geek, so having more data would be fun to play with. But at what point am I chasing numbers rather than writing stories? For me, the only thing I really want is a breakdown of votes, because Lit absolutely has that information based on the fact that they can do sweeps.

 

[trained23]

Those read numbers also might include rereads and you can’t vote more than once

 

[gunhilltrain]

The only real way to do it would be to have something that you interact with on the page when you get to the end. Getting into page view times gets really into the weeds and it doesn't help the site serve stories to readers.

What we are discussing here ultimately doesn't matter that much to the site or readers. They've decided that what is in place is good enough and making a change isn't worth their time and energy to appease authors.

Would I like to have more reader data? Sure. I'm a small time number geek, so having more data would be fun to play with. But at what point am I chasing numbers rather than writing stories? For me, the only thing I really want is a breakdown of votes, because Lit absolutely has that information based on the fact that they can do sweeps.

The site itself is either contented or overwhelmed with the results. Probably more of the latter. In effect, the "site" is a single person. What is it, dozens of new stories per week to deal with?

 

[TheWritingGroup]

The site itself is either contented or overwhelmed with the results. Probably more of the latter. In effect, the "site" is a single person. What is it, dozens of new stories per week to deal with?

Hundreds. Look at the New Stories feed some time, if you're curious. I have been hoping that "Laurel" is actually a small team. That's one huge slushpile to go through, otherwise.

-Annie

 

[gunhilltrain]

Hundreds. Look at the New Stories feed some time, if you're curious. I have been hoping that "Laurel" is actually a small team. That's one huge slushpile to go through, otherwise.

-Annie

No one is really sure what goes on behind the scenes here. I've joked that Laurel actually quit or died years ago and was replaced by someone else using that name. It would be something like Miss Lonelyhearts. For example, "Ann Landers" never existed. He column was written by other people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Lonelyhearts

 

[Kelliezgirl]

No one is really sure what goes on behind the scenes here. I've joked that Laurel actually quit or died years ago and was replaced by someone else using that name. It would be something like Miss Lonelyhearts. For example, "Ann Landers" never existed. He column was written by other people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Lonelyhearts

More like the Dread Pirate Roberts...

 

[TheLobster]

See, you are all mistaken. It's not "Laurel"; it's actually L.A.U.R.E.L.:

Limber Automaton Upgraded to Review Erotic Literature

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Too often, "views" are comparable to someone picking up your book in a bookstore, reading the back cover blurb and putting it back on the shelf. There is little investment. From what I can see, the closest metrics to traditional publishing available for writers on Literotica are the ratios of votes to views (compare to book purchase) and comments to views (compare to a review).

An example I can share is with one of my stories on Literotica, titled “1990” in Novels and Novellas. The title is extremely vague, and the short description isn’t much better. Both done purposely. The story has been published for 630 days and only receives 1.26 views per day. It has a score of 4.84, has been viewed 870 times, but has 587 votes and 19 comments.

Those numbers are off the chart for any story on Literotica. All of my stories in the Novels/Novellas category have the highest scores, and the best votes per view and comments per view ratios compared to stories in other categories. I need to add that none of these stories contain any graphic sexual content, mostly only implied sex.

 

[Codoc24]

Yeah, the voting may not really be accurate, but I'll continue to live in my little fantasy world and pretend that it is. What does it hurt? It stokes my ego that 400+ people read it and liked it enough to vote and give me a 4.71 rating. They're the only ones who matter to me. It's nice to see a high rating but it's not that important to me. Though I would be pretty bummed if 1,000 voted and the rating was 1.0.

 

[madelinemasoch]

Yeah, the voting may not really be accurate, but I'll continue to live in my little fantasy world and pretend that it is. What does it hurt? It stokes my ego that 400+ people read it and liked it enough to vote and give me a 4.71 rating. They're the only ones who matter to me. It's nice to see a high rating but it's not that important to me. Though I would be pretty bummed if 1,000 voted and the rating was 1.0.

You and everybody else but me.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

My stories seem to get about one rating per 200-300 readers, according to the Works page.

I just published a WIWAW for my story, Pranked.

WIWAWs and essays in general don't get readers like stories. At first stats time, day of publication 69 readers. Four voted! for a ratio of more than 1 per 18. Is that normal? I mean, it's What I Wrote and Why for an unpopular story in not-the-most-popular category.

-Annie

 

[StillStunned]

My stories seem to get about one rating per 200-300 readers, according to the Works page.

I just published a WIWAW for my story, Pranked.

WIWAWs and essays in general don't get readers like stories. At first stats time, day of publication 69 readers. Four voted! for a ratio of more than 1 per 18. Is that normal? I mean, it's What I Wrote and Why for an unpopular story in not-the-most-popular category.

-Annie

The five WIWAWs I published during the event drew a total of 5000 views, and 98 votes. So one in fifty. The highest vote-to-view ratio is Nameless and Faceless (26 votes from 711 views), the lowest is Too Cold Not to Fuck (36 votes from 2547 views). "Nameless and Faceless" went up on the first day of the challenge, when I think enthusiasm was greatest, so that might be a factor here.

The one WIWAW I published outside the event has 8 votes from 1082 views.

I think that readers who are inclined to click on a WIWAW are also the readers who are more inclined to vote. People don't visit Reviews & Essays for the steamy sex scenes, after all.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Thinking about it, I would expect that the first 100 or so readers would contain a lot of people who follow me, and are presumably more likely to actually read the whole (1 page) essay and rate.

-Annie

 

[Lifestyle66]

Yeah, the voting may not really be accurate, but I'll continue to live in my little fantasy world and pretend that it is. What does it hurt? It stokes my ego that 400+ people read it and liked it enough to vote and give me a 4.71 rating. They're the only ones who matter to me. It's nice to see a high rating but it's not that important to me. Though I would be pretty bummed if 1,000 voted and the rating was 1.0.

"Pavlov's Dog -- 750 Words"
"Her needs and routines might get a girl killed."

In Loving Wives rated 2.26 with 717 votes and 42 comments!

And I'm not bummed at all. (I was expecting it.)

 

[AG31]

I did the math on some of my ratings as far as what percentage of readers on a particular story actually rated it. It turns out, it was less than 1%. The ratings can't possibly reflect the readership's opinion as a whole if only 0.1% of readers actually rated the story. That final number you see is pretty much meaningless.

It's funny to see how many authors on here actually take ratings as measurements of quality, when they're not, because the vast majority of readers of any given story don't actually rate them. I think it'd be funnier if beside every Red H there was the number indicating the percentage of the story's readership that actually gave it a rating. It'd kind of expose how little the Red H actually means anything. It literally doesn't matter. Imagine if you had a country where only 0.1% of the population voted on anything. Would you take their decisions as reflections of what the people in that country believe?

Let's do all of the math for every story I once had posted on this site, without titles.

1. 21130 reads and 83 votes: 0.3928%
2. 8149 reads and 44 votes: 0.5399%
3. 18526 reads and 48 votes: 0.259%
4. 7815 reads and 32 votes: 0.4%
5. 18334 reads and 21 votes: 0.1145%
6. 9143 reads and 19 votes: 0.2%
7. 23611 reads and 67 votes: 0.2837%
8. 53775 reads and 251 votes: 0.4667%
9. 31816 reads and 128 votes: 0.4%
10. 17844 reads and 67 votes: 0.3754%
11. 17218 reads and 57 votes: 0.331%
12. 10749 reads and 34 votes: 0.3163%
13. 7503 reads and 32 votes: 0.4264%
14. 16079 reads and 40 votes: 0.2487%
15. 9776 reads and 21 votes: 0.2148%
16. 11637 reads and 31 votes: 0.2663%
17. 9736 reads and 28 votes: 0.2875%
18. 8144 reads and 25 votes: 0.3%
19. 9167 reads and 18 votes: 0.1963%
20. 7433 reads and 24 votes: 0.3228%
21. 6376 reads and 14 votes: 0.2195%
22. 7976 reads and 20 votes: 0.25%
23. 7682 reads and 52 votes: 0.6769%
24. 11814 reads and 30 votes: 0.2539%
25. 17269 reads and 234 votes: 1.355%
26. 7808 reads and 43 votes: 0.55%
27. 3281 reads and 21 votes: 0.64%
28. 14429 reads and 81 votes: 0.5613%
29. 8556 reads and 49 votes: 0.5726%
30. 10996 reads and 46 votes: 0.4183%
31. 9238 reads and 33 votes: 0.3572%
32. 3661 reads and 22 votes: 0.6%
33. 6501 reads and 27 votes: 0.4153%
34. 3423 reads and 17 votes: 0.4966%
35. 3942 reads and 14 votes: 0.3551%
36. 2381 reads and 5 votes: 0.2%
37. 35069 reads and 108 votes: 0.3%
The average percentage of readers that voted was 0.3936%

Feel free to do your own stats and post them here.
What I found was that it only gets as high as 1% and that's an outlier. It goes as low as about 0.2% which is more common.

Do you really think what 0.4% of readers think of your story is an accurate reflection of how readers as a whole feel about it? I think not.

Thanks for all your work!!!! I hope all the Lit authors who are depressed about their ratings read this!!!

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

The truly fascinating thing about all these discussions of the rating system is how they always come from the same premise.
I've yet to see anyone make the claim that high ratings on Lit prove they are a great author. Instead what we consistently see is people arguing that their stories are really good despite their low ratings.
The real flaw with the rating system seems to be that it doesn't give some people the result they want.

Assuming that votes per view and other such metrics standardize across the system, you could argue that the relative meaning of a 4.5 star rating does the same. This would mean that, in fact, higher scores do indicate higher quality as the qualitative value of each vote is basically the same, again, across the entire system.

How’d I do?

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Assuming that votes per view and other such metrics standardize across the system, you could argue that the relative meaning of a 4.5 star rating does the same. This would mean that, in fact, higher scores do indicate higher quality as the qualitative value of each vote is basically the same, again, across the entire system.

How’d I do?

It's been a long Monday, I'm tired, my head hurts, my feet hurt, so I'm just going to say you did an amazing job. 5 stars Red H all the way.

 

[iwatchus]

I only have my one series to go by, and they are all relatively young publications, so be careful of drawing too much from it.

The first few stories in the series gets what seems to be a fairly typical voting rate of about 1.5%. But the later stories are consistently sub 1%, some as low as 0.2%. I know as a reader, I was less likely to vote on latter chapters.

Confounding things, I had not originally planned this to be a series, so the naming does not include chapter x or some such indicator. I do have a warning at the start, so I expect I have a large number of readers who put the story back before finishing the intro.

I a curious if I will see anything of a burst when I post the finale in a few days. I have heard that some people will only read series after they are complete.

To be honest, I always credited my surprisingly high ratings to selection bias. Sane people give up on my story early, with only the irrational few who think like I do making it through to the ending to vote. That and the handful of haters who vote 1 (or recently I have been getting a 2 in the first few hours -- are they trying to avoid the sweeps?)