Research help: Jailbait

[CharleyH]

I have been mulling this piece of writing for a while now (researching, outlining, plotting etc.). It's an historical piece and I know the main character inside out and have all the plot points for her internal conflict and know exactly how the story must end. However, I am at a standstill in pushing the story forward because a realistic description of her location is of utmost importance to the story. In other words, how I write the events of her story pivots on a realistic description of her location.

What I need to know is what prison walls (specificallty those in a death row corridor) looked like in 1945. Were they raw brick or cobblestone (like in Silence of the Lambs), or like most prisons (circa 1950) I have so far seen in Europe, flat concrete and white washed?

Any insight you can give is most appreciated.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

I have been mulling this piece of writing for a while now (researching, outlining, plotting etc.). It's an historical piece and I know the main character inside out and have all the plot points for her internal conflict and know exactly how the story must end. However, I am at a standstill in pushing the story forward because a realistic description of her location is of utmost importance to the story. In other words, how I write the events of her story pivots on a realistic description of her location.

What I need to know is what prison walls (specificallty those in a death row corridor) looked like in 1945. Were they raw brick or cobblestone (like in Silence of the Lambs), or like most prisons (circa 1950) I have so far seen in Europe, flat concrete and white washed?

Any insight you can give is most appreciated.

Have no idea, Charliey. But I suggest you take a look at the movie, Green Mile. That takes place on death row in some southern state in the 30's. I don't think any were much different.

 

[bronzeage]

It would depend on the actual geography and geology of the location. In areas where limestone or granite could be quarried, most of the buildings would be stone. In other places, concrete would be the choice.

Brick and cinder block would not be used in cell walls because they are too easy to chip through.

 

[sr71plt]

Wouldn't they have been different in different states?

This is fiction. Why can't they be what you need for your story--within the realm of plausibility?

 

[CharleyH]

Have no idea, Charliey. But I suggest you take a look at the movie, Green Mile. That takes place on death row in some southern state in the 30's. I don't think any were much different.

Thanks JJ. I know that Hollywood ensures their prisons (aforementioned Silence of the Lambs) are foreboding and intimidating, but I'm simply searching for reality. If all my character has in her last days is her prison, then I want to make sure that when she looks at her prison wall she is flash backing and flash forwarding due to her location. A concrete and white walled environment will be, for my character's journey, much different than a cobblestoned one. I am simply looking for the truth of what prison's looked like in 1945, not Hollywood fantasies of it (no offence, love).

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Thanks JJ. I know that Hollywood ensures their prisons (aforementioned Silence of the Lambs) are foreboding and intimidating, but I'm simply searching for reality. If all my character has in her last days is her prison, then I want to make sure that when she looks at her prison wall she is flash backing and flash forwarding due to her location. A concrete and white walled environment will be, for my character's journey, much different than a cobblestoned one. I am simply looking for the truth of what prison's looked like in 1945, not Hollywood fantasies of it (no offence, love).

Can't help much, but i do remember that Patricia Cornwell in Cruel and Unusual had some graphic descriptions of a VA deathrow and execution sequence.

 

[CharleyH]

Wouldn't they have been different in different states?

This is fiction. Why can't they be what you need for your story--within the realm of plausibility?

Historical fiction. My story balances a tender line between reality and fiction. My story is a sore spot historically, and my protagonist is a villain. I need as much reality as possible for the villain. It's a hard write. I still need and want to know if most historical prisons have white walls and I want to know what the white paint covers? Brick, concrete blocks? The place in my story is Hameln Gaol, Hameln, Germany circa 1945.

 

[Katyusha]

Historical fiction. My story balances a tender line between reality and fiction. My story is a sore spot historically, and my protagonist is a villain. I need as much reality as possible for the villain. It's a hard write. I still need and want to know if most historical prisons have white walls and I want to know what the white paint covers? Brick, concrete blocks? The place in my story is Hameln Gaol, Hameln, Germany circa 1945.

Most likely either solid reinforced concrete or stone, depending on when the prison was built. I don't know much about Hameln Gaol beyond its role in the executions of 13 of the people involved in killing 50 escaped prisoners from Stalag Luft III. The older prisons, particularly those built before 1900, were generally built of stone, while later on they started building them out of reinforced concrete. Bricks were too easy to chip through, but if Hameln Gaol was built during the Holocaust or WWII, it may have been made of brick or other flimsier materials. Many of the prisons constructed in Germany at that time were hastily built using any material available, even wood, because the Nazis were having trouble keeping up with the constant tidal wave of prisoners coming in.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Tenessee State Prison. Opened 1898. Closed 1992. I'm sure the colors are different in your time period, but the structure is pretty much the same.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l27/Jenny_Jackson/400px-Tn_state_cell_block.jpg

 

[Austin8]

This is a photo of a Death-Row cell in Huntsville Prison here in Texas. It was opened in 1849.
The exterior of the building is red brick, the main cell unit is reinforced concrete, however this photo reveals that the cells on Death-Row to be a painted brick.


http://www.uturn.org/Prisontext/jones1.jpg

 

[sr71plt]

The place in my story is Hameln Gaol, Hameln, Germany circa 1945.

It would have been helpful to have this specified in the OP. Now you're getting all sorts of irrelevant takes on U.S. prisons.

The vintage government buildings that were in the Frankfurt area in the mid 50s when I was there were of dressed stone. I would think the cell walls would have been covered with something like concrete to, as has been noted before, prevent carving one's way out before it could be noticed.

 

[freshface]

The place in my story is Hameln Gaol, Hameln, Germany circa 1945.

I have never seen cinder block walls in Germany, and the brick walls from Huntsville don't look right either. They adore concrete walls, both in new buildings and old. I once watched workers cut a window in an interior wall dating to the 1930s. It was about two inches of concrete on each side of the wall with four inches of rubble in the middle. The hundred year old building that I live in has dressed stone exterior with foot thick external walls. You don't hear your neighbors through a German wall, and if you did, hitting it with your fist would hurt you more than them.

 

[Weird Harold]

I still need and want to know if most historical prisons have white walls and I want to know what the white paint covers? Brick, concrete blocks? The place in my story is Hameln Gaol, Hameln, Germany circa 1945.

With a bit of googling, it appears that "Hameln Gaol" was originally built as one of four 17th century fortresses, which probably means stone masonry. Whatever modifications might have been made in the intervening 400 years the basic structure would still be stone blocks.

The Gaol is now a hotel and there may be a historical page in that connection that would give you more clues -- or at least a contact point for an historical inquiry.

 

[Liar]

The place in my story is Hameln Gaol, Hameln, Germany circa 1945.

http://br.geocities.com/grese.irma@ymail.com/biography.html

There's a small picture of a Hameln prison half way down the page. Maybe it can be of some assistance. Looks like an older brick house with a newer, probably flat concrete, annex.

But it's kind of hard to tell from a distance.

 

[Handley_Page]

Historical fiction. My story balances a tender line between reality and fiction. My story is a sore spot historically, and my protagonist is a villain. I need as much reality as possible for the villain. It's a hard write. I still need and want to know if most historical prisons have white walls and I want to know what the white paint covers? Brick, concrete blocks? The place in my story is Hameln Gaol, Hameln, Germany circa 1945.

Brickwork, often painted, usually a sort-of green.
Black line at the base of the wall.
High ceiling,
lights in enamelled metal shades.

 

[CharleyH]

It would have been helpful to have this specified in the OP. Now you're getting all sorts of irrelevant takes on U.S. prisons.

For me it would have been helpful, yes. Initially posting this thread, I wanted to keep the flow of information open so that those with knowledge could post it uninhibited by my boundaries, and others, if they're researching prisons for some hot sex scene, could find some good and needed info.

Thank you all so very much for your help, your wealth of information and your pics.

Weird Harold: You've added some information that I did not find about the specific prison. Perhaps I was hasty in my research, or maybe I just didn't key the correct search terms (Google searching is an art form in itself, I think) I have tried the hotel page, but didn't see anything. However, you have inspired me to just email the Hotel or the town tourist board and simply ask them.

Liar: In the course of my research, I did come across one photo of the specific corridor. It was obviously in black and white and mainly it was of the corridor, the prisoners looking out of the bars (I think in recollection), which didn't help much. I couldn't get a good peak at the walls or even see whether or not there was a toilet or wash basin (seems so trivial a query). I didn't photocopy that page (from a book) at the time because I thought my story was going in a different direction - go figure. I'm still taking some creative leeway in giving my character items like make-up and a small compact, but in courtroom photos, the female prisoners were wearing a touch of make-up, so I doubt this is much of a stretch.

For those interested in Hameln Gaol, I do know a number of things: the cells were so small that the guards could not go into them to take the prisoners out. The prisoners needed to be called into the corridor. There were windows across from the cells (not sure how many, though) and the prisoners could hear the building of the gallow, as well as the building of their graves.

It's just my opinion, but I think historical writing, even for an historical sex story, is particularly hard because not only might the author need to be true to the physical layout of whole city, town or borough at the time the story takes place, but they need to be gurus of architecture, popular culture, and of course, language and idioms. Then again, I have heard it said that fantasy and sci-fi are the most difficult writes of all because the genres are rigid and the readers demand more probability than in other genres.

 

[Weird Harold]

Weird Harold: You've added some information that I did not find about the specific prison. Perhaps I was hasty in my research, or maybe I just didn't key the correct search terms (Google searching is an art form in itself, I think) I have tried the hotel page, but didn't see anything. However, you have inspired me to just email the Hotel or the town tourist board and simply ask them.

One of the things I did was search for "Hameln Prison" instead of "Hameln Gaol" I also tried the alternative spellings for Hameln -- Hamelin, Hamlin, etc.

I didn't search on the names all those executed there for biographies or picures keyed to them rather than the prison, but that would be another avenue of research to pursue.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

After a long session googling, it appears there are not a lot of photos available of the inside of English, French or German prisons of the period. The best ones are of Long Kesh in Belfast (closed in 1981). Photos taken in the early 1960's.) Here is one of the corridore of Block H and one of a typical cell. The death penalty was abolished by the Brits in 1964, so I doubt there was much change between the 50's and 60's.

 

[CharleyH]

One of the things I did was search for "Hameln Prison" instead of "Hameln Gaol" I also tried the alternative spellings for Hameln -- Hamelin, Hamlin, etc.

I didn't search on the names all those executed there for biographies or picures keyed to them rather than the prison, but that would be another avenue of research to pursue.

I didn't try alternative spellings. Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[CharleyH]

After a long session googling, it appears there are not a lot of photos available of the inside of English, French or German prisons of the period. The best ones are of Long Kesh in Belfast (closed in 1981). Photos taken in the early 1960's.) Here is one of the corridore of Block H and one of a typical cell. The death penalty was abolished by the Brits in 1964, so I doubt there was much change between the 50's and 60's.

Jesus - can I call you Jesus? Thank you, babe!