Research help - Insanity, committal and teenagers

[TheEarl]

Right, I'm writing and rewriting my novel and I've come up with a very good bit of backstory for my main character. At the age of 15, she's depressed (with very good reason) and recovering from several consecutive traumas, in the bosom of a family who don't care and who'd prefer to push anything unsettling under the carpet. I've had the idea that her father might've had her committed to an institution, preferably something exceedingly expensive so he could throw money at the problem and make it go away. It fits in perfectly with the character and really, really helps build the whole story.

However, I know fuck all about it. I don't even know if a 15 year old can get committed, whether they would go to a junior institution, what any of the things are called, how easy it would be to check yourself out/escape, what kind of evidence he'd need to present, whether he'd need a judge's order to do it 'for her own safety' (she's harmed herself).

I'm going to do some research myself (what did writers do before the invention of the internet? God bless Tim Berners-Lee!), but this place is no 1 on my research methods list, so I thought I'd start here. Any assistance on the thread or in PMs would be very, very gratefully accepted. I need any details I can lay my hands on.

The Earl

 

[entitled]

i know squat about the rules and regulations in the UK, but... Lots of stateside goodies, and a good friend works with children as a therapist. She might know something, if you would like me to drop her an email.

 

[zeb1094]

In the states, well back when this happened it was true, a parent can commit their child on the advice of a Psychologist. So, if you had enough money you could get a doctor to write a report and order her committed. You do need a doctors order though.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Right, I'm writing and rewriting my novel and I've come up with a very good bit of backstory for my main character. At the age of 15, she's depressed (with very good reason) and recovering from several consecutive traumas, in the bosom of a family who don't care and who'd prefer to push anything unsettling under the carpet. I've had the idea that her father might've had her committed to an institution, preferably something exceedingly expensive so he could throw money at the problem and make it go away. It fits in perfectly with the character and really, really helps build the whole story.

However, I know fuck all about it. I don't even know if a 15 year old can get committed, whether they would go to a junior institution, what any of the things are called, how easy it would be to check yourself out/escape, what kind of evidence he'd need to present, whether he'd need a judge's order to do it 'for her own safety' (she's harmed herself).

I'm going to do some research myself (what did writers do before the invention of the internet? God bless Tim Berners-Lee!), but this place is no 1 on my research methods list, so I thought I'd start here. Any assistance on the thread or in PMs would be very, very gratefully accepted. I need any details I can lay my hands on.

The Earl

All you need to commit someone, for a short period (about 2 weeks) is a 2PC. That is you need a physician who reccomends it, and a concurring reccomendation from another physician. This is involunatry and, to protect folks, they are in "crisis" and constitute a real threat to themselves or others. You can keep someone in Crisis for up to two weeks, during which they are under more or less constant supervision and a round of treatment is started. To keep them in a longer term situation, the Admitting Physician and the one assigned to him/her in crisis, must agree there is an ongoing threat, to themselves or others.

Anyone committed via this method, can appeal the decision.

For someone with money, it should be too hard to find two doctors who agree and will do a 2pc. The best way to bring it about would be if your MC was somewhat suicidal. If she admitted she had considered suicide recently, even if she further said she would never do it, that would be enough. Alternately, a diagnosis of clinical depression, would be enough, so they could get her on Anti-depressants, but commitment to a long term care facility in general requires a proven threat. Either attempted suicide or attempted harm to others.

Of course, if you don't KNOW, that you have the right to appeal and no one informs you of this right, you could end up in there until the supervising physicians decided you were "cured".

 

[TheEarl]

You all rock. This is exactly the information I needed.

Ent: Thanks for the offer, but (atm) this is just background information, so I don't need to go that deep. Appreciate the fact that I know people with connections!

One q - if it happened to a 15 year old, then would she go in with adults, or are there juvenile institutions?

The Earl

 

[entitled]

You all rock. This is exactly the information I needed.

Ent: Thanks for the offer, but (atm) this is just background information, so I don't need to go that deep. Appreciate the fact that I know people with connections!

One q - if it happened to a 15 year old, then would she go in with adults, or are there juvenile institutions?

The Earl

There can be either juvenile institutions or a child's wing of an adult facility. Where she would be placed would depend on her case, the severity of what they consider to be her problems, etc.

 

[zeb1094]

You all rock. This is exactly the information I needed.

Ent: Thanks for the offer, but (atm) this is just background information, so I don't need to go that deep. Appreciate the fact that I know people with connections!

One q - if it happened to a 15 year old, then would she go in with adults, or are there juvenile institutions?

The Earl

Juvinile institution! No mixing of children with adults.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

You all rock. This is exactly the information I needed.

Ent: Thanks for the offer, but (atm) this is just background information, so I don't need to go that deep. Appreciate the fact that I know people with connections!

One q - if it happened to a 15 year old, then would she go in with adults, or are there juvenile institutions?

The Earl

Depends upon why they are commited. in general thugh, adolescents are housed in separate facilities from adults, and the geriatrics in another. Or on separate floors or wings of the same facility.

Treatment differs for many mental illnesses based at least in part on age and gender. Main thing is, an adolescent's brain is still not fully formed, and may react very differently than an adults to some specific drug regimines.

Conversely, if you wanted to house her with adults, you could simply have her sent to a facility that was dedicated to her particular problem. In those settings, you might find mixed communities.

You're pretty free, to do it either way that fits your needs. Her father having money is a plus, since you can send her to an expensive "private" facility that can be pretty much what you wish. A lot of famous people end up in these facilities, wehre the discretion of the staff is almost as important as the quality of care given.

 

[Guest]

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Juvinile institution! No mixing of children with adults.

Not always. There's a sleep disorder facility at Columbia down in the city. If her problems stemmed from that, she would be in among adults and geriatrics, because the facility is devoted to the study and treatment of sleep disorders.

There are also MRDD facilities in rockland that house kids from very young right up to old folks. They aren't segregated and the staff does all in their power to give them the same freedoms adults would have, but under a controlled enviornment.

 

[FallingToFly]

Don't know about anywhere else, but in Florida, you can be what's called Baker Acted. All that has to happen is that your parents call the authorities (Sheriif or Police) and tell them you're a danger to yourself or others. They can keep you for 72 hours on the Psych Ward if you show no signs of being a problem, or for as long as they damn well please if you act out.

Not fun, not nice, and the Psych Ward is enough to drive anyone insane, even if they weren't to begin with.

 

[R. Richard]

Anyone committed via this method, can appeal the decision.

Not quite, Colly! Any ADULT can appeal such a decision. However, a juvenile can't directly appeal such a decision [CA law]. Any appeal made on behalf of a juvenile must be made by juvenile authorities.

They can stick a juvenile in a whako ward and he/she is not allowed even a phone call. The authorities are "required" to provide said juvenile with a counselor, however, no time period is specified for the providing of said juvenile counselor, except that the juvenile can't legally be held as a juvenile once he/she/it reaches the age of 18. [I say legally, because they never prosecute the authorities for failure to provide legally mandated requirements, excepting only water, food or medical care.]

By the way, in many states, a juvenile is not properly referred to as a juvenile. There are various legal terms that are correctly used instead of juvenile. However, the terms differ from state to state and even from time to time.

 

[oggbashan]

Children cannot be mentally ill in the UK

Unless the rules have changed recently, a child under 18 who has any mental illness is treated as a child, not as mentally ill.

Services for the mentally ill are only funded for those who are adult i.e. over 18.

A child who needed medical treatment for mental illness beyond that available in the community and with parents would have to be taken into care by the local authority and sent to a suitable CHILDREN'S institution. Even then the institution is unlikely to be securely locked like a prison. In theory the child could walk out any time but the staff would try to ensure that didn't happen.

Only a child who had been convicted of a serious offence e.g murder, and was also severely mentally ill would be likely to be in a secure children's institution. Such places are very rare and very expensive.

However, parents of severely disturbed children have been known to send them abroad to secure institutions where UK laws don't apply.

The Childrens' Act aims to ensure that the child's interest comes before that of the adults responsible for that child.

Og

 

[zeb1094]

Not quite, Colly! Any ADULT can appeal such a decision. However, a juvenile can't directly appeal such a decision [CA law]. Any appeal made on behalf of a juvenile must be made by juvenile authorities.

They can stick a juvenile in a whako ward and he/she is not allowed even a phone call. The authorities are "required" to provide said juvenile with a counselor, however, no time period is specified for the providing of said juvenile counselor, except that the juvenile can't legally be held as a juvenile once he/she/it reaches the age of 18. [I say legally, because they never prosecute the authorities for failure to provide legally mandated requirements, excepting only water, food or medical care.]

By the way, in many states, a juvenile is not properly referred to as a juvenile. There are various legal terms that are correctly used instead of juvenile. However, the terms differ from state to state and even from time to time.

The parents can appeal.

Also, I know this works, tell the institution you will nolonger be responsible for expenses for the commited person and see how fast they are cured.

 

[siren319]

The parents can appeal.

Also, I know this works, tell the institution you will nolonger be responsible for expenses for the commited person and see how fast they are cured.

LOL, when all else fails, lack of money always works.

 

[R. Richard]

The parents can appeal.

Also, I know this works, tell the institution you will nolonger be responsible for expenses for the commited person and see how fast they are cured.

It is true, and a good point, that the parents can appeal. However, the parents can appeal only if they know that the juvenile is in custody. The juvenile is not premitted even a phone call to notify parents. [This last was the law when I was a juvenile. They had a few cases where juveniles were held for very long periods without any sort of notification of anyone and there was talk of changing the requirements.]

You don't really expect the state to bear the costs do you? I mean, they have only so much budget and it barely covers the cost of staff, facilities, bonuses, etc.

 

[zeb1094]

It is true, and a good point, that the parents can appeal. However, the parents can appeal only if they know that the juvenile is in custody. The juvenile is not premitted even a phone call to notify parents. [This last was the law when I was a juvenile. They had a few cases where juveniles were held for very long periods without any sort of notification of anyone and there was talk of changing the requirements.]

You don't really expect the state to bear the costs do you? I mean, they have only so much budget and it barely covers the cost of staff, facilities, bonuses, etc.

Under the laws today the parents or legal guardian must be notified any time a child is in the custody of civil authorities no matter the reason. The police cannot even question a child(minor) without the parents being present.

 

[Weird Harold]

Right, I'm writing and rewriting my novel and I've come up with a very good bit of backstory for my main character. At the age of 15, she's depressed (with very good reason) and recovering from several consecutive traumas, in the bosom of a family who don't care and who'd prefer to push anything unsettling under the carpet. I've had the idea that her father might've had her committed to an institution, preferably something exceedingly expensive so he could throw money at the problem and make it go away.

What kind of time period are you working in?

It was much easier to have someone committed to a private sanitarium in the past than it is now and children had very few rights prior to the late 20th century.

There is also the changes in diagnoses for mental illnesses that have occured over over time; even as late as the 1950's "Depression" wasn't a possible diagnoses but "melancholia" or "nervous prostration" would be given as the reason for checking a problem-child into a sanitorium.

A rich parent looking to make a problem with child go away has almost always had the option of a boarding school and such private institutions have always been largely unregulated.

A depressed fifteen-year-old girl throughout most of the 20th century would likely have had problems in school and been banished to a boarding school specializing in problem children if rich, or government "reform school" if poor.

It would be a very unusual parent who would recognise her depression as a mental illness and commit her to a mental care facility instead of sending her to a boarding school for "incorrigables."

In the US, there was a long period where a stay on a "health farm" was the prefered solution to getting embarassing relatives out of sight. It wasn't as legally complicated as committing them to a mental institution but often indistinguishable from being committed. A "Health Farm" could be found with almost any combination of discipline and real therapy you could wish for.