Research for a Wank Story?

[TheeGoatPig]

Yes, I want to know a little more about graduate students for the two lead characters in a story I want to start writing today or tomorrow. It's going to be a quick wank story about a university graduate who gets fucked so hard she's stupid by the end. Silly? Yes. But I want to write it in the worst way.

Except I have no idea what happens after graduating and then going for yuor higher up degree. What is the process involved? Who tells you what you have to do to get your next degree? About what age should she be? Is there a title that goes with graduating in the top five of your class? She's Ivy League (Yale) if that makes a difference. Stuff like that?

 

[Pure]

hi tgp,

i was on the path you describe, in humanities.

//I want to know a little more about graduate students for the two lead characters in a story I want to start writing today or tomorrow. It's going to be a quick wank story about a university graduate who gets fucked so hard she's stupid by the end. Silly? Yes. But I want to write it in the worst way.

Except I have no idea what happens after graduating and then going for yuor higher up degree. What is the process involved? Who tells you what you have to do to get your next degree? About what age should she be? Is there a title that goes with graduating in the top five of your class? She's Ivy League (Yale) if that makes a difference. Stuff like that?//

You get a BA when you're about 21, after four years of study, typically. If you're at the top of your class, by some measure, you get 'magna cum laude', which is maybe top 5% or so. [Summa cum laude is the absolute top, i.e. a fraction of 1%)] There are often awards for the absolute top student by grade, including the 'valedictorian' honor (gives a speech at grad ceremonies); there are various awards for the best students, sometimes in the form of a cash prize; other times just a piece of paper.

If you're proceeding, you've already applied by the end of the calendar year to the place to get your first graduate degree, MA or MS. [In some programs--esp science-- there is no MA, you just go straight into PhD] Let's say she's going from Yale to Princeton. She graduates from Yale, let's say, June 2006 (Class of '06). Her Princeton plan, including intended major and courses would be firmed up by the time she graduated Yale in June, and she would probably have already been accepted in Jan or Feb of that year 2006**, i.e. the middle of her last academic year at Year. So she would normally start at Princeton graduate school in the Fall (here, 2006), the beginning of the next academic years. [One feature of that week would be 'registration', etc. see posting below.]

Her Princeton plan would involve a major, let's say, History: probably related to her previous major, perhaps also History, slightly different emphasis. In that major, there would be some graduate course to take, say, for 1-2 years; there would be choices, but basically they say: before you write your thesis, you have to do these (let's say) 4- 8 courses (one year courses) of your choice, i.e., 4 per year. The courses might center on an are of particular interest, in which a sub area will be chosen for the thesis.

IF she was going for an MA (with thesis) along the way--after year 1 or 2 of study, then the course load would be smaller. The MA would take a year or two to write.

If she is so outstanding she's be done the MA in something like 1-2 years for the courses and writing, and proceed to PhD. That would involve perhaps another year of courses, let's say 3 courses, and writing her thesis for 1- 3+ years. A key figure is the supervisor of the MA thesis and/or PhD thesis; s/he decideS if you live or die. You and the supervisor have chosen each other, presumably because of overlap or coincidence of research interests. If she is so good, she might pick(ask) some world renowned scholar or researcher in her field to be her supervisor, and s/he, the supervisor would agree to serve--kind of like a marriage.

Graduate courses are typically seminars with 3-15 students; lots of papers and some independent research projects.

In sciences, the general pattern is the same, except some courses would be laboratory course with lots of hours, and the student would usually be involved in a professor's research project, which would fund her. The 'hot' science students might tend NOT to have to do an MA thesis. Just some courses for a year or two, then write the PhD thesis.

[ADDED: IF she goes into a professional program [[Law or Medicine]], things are a bit different in detail, but the pattern is the same; courses followed by writing some thesis, though there would be an apprenticeship/internship as a latter part of the program, if the person intends actually to practice in the field.]

I might add that lots of grad students have jobs assisting profs, either in the courses proper (as instructors or paper graders) or in their research.

I hope this give you an idea. The main difference as a graduate student is 1) fewer courses, smaller numbers of students in each; 2) usually fewer required courses; 3) passing beyond course work to research and writing. 4) that writing being done under a supervisor. IOW, within a year or two, on the path to PHD, you're past courses and expected to be researching and writing for 1-4 years, though some souls drag out the process for up to 7 years depending on their family and job commitments. If you're brilliant AND the degree is in math or science you could have a PhD in a couple years. Otherwise 3-7 yrs is common; longer in humanities (history in our example).
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** As cloudy says there may be a required examination, similar to the SAT, at part of applying to graduate school; which i'm assuming is done by Xmas of 2005, the end of Fall in her last year.

Depending on the course [esp for law or med school], that score might be important. But if she's straight A, the examination would NOT be problem, and her BA course teachers have recommended her to their friends at Princeton.

 

[cloudy]

Top students graduate magna cum laude, suma cum laude, or cum laude, depending on their grade point average.

The student would have to take a specific admissions test for whatever graduate degree they're aiming for, ex: LSAT, GMAT, etc., and score high enough on that that when their undergrad grade point average is factored in, they're more likely to succeed than to fail. Necessary scores/grade average varies from one school to another, and from one discipline to another.

I also have had/will have to do clinical work out in the community under the supervision of a professor, of course (halfway through my master's in psychology), in addition to the regular coursework, research papers, and thesis.

 

[jomar]

What Pure and Cloudy said. You might want to look at Yale's and others websites. They should list what courses are required for certain degrees. Browsing the websites may give you ideas and insights. If she starts out brilliant, she'd probably go from high school at age 17 or 18 straight to college the following fall. She might even have taken advanced courses in high school and get credit for college classes - maybe enough to graduate in three years. Then she gets fucked stupid in law school, it takes her 10 years to graduate and pass the bar, then she becomes a Bush advisor.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

What Pure and Cloudy said. You might want to look at Yale's and others websites. They should list what courses are required for certain degrees. Browsing the websites may give you ideas and insights. If she starts out brilliant, she'd probably go from high school at age 17 or 18 straight to college the following fall. She might even have taken advanced courses in high school and get credit for college classes - maybe enough to graduate in three years. Then she gets fucked stupid in law school, it takes her 10 years to graduate and pass the bar, then she becomes a Bush advisor.

Bush is still going to be in office in ten years?

Do graduates still have student advisors? Maybe I should make the man her professor, or a dean. Is there an initiation period or day or anything for graduate students?

 

[Pure]

meeting the man.

if she's taking her first grad courses, she meets: other students; the instructor, an advanced grad student or someone with a PhD already, who's not a professor; any number of professors [of different ranks], in charge of her courses [or other courses], and these could be from 25-70 years old. There would be a chairperson in her dept, [and] lesser departmental figures; there would be more limited contact, though there would be a faculty person(s) designated to look after new students.

She might meet officials in the grad school, e.g. deans, etc. but students have limited contact usually. The deans are older and usually married, of course. [Many were previously professors.]
---

Yes, there might be an orientation week or something before classes start: some talks and open houses and cocktail parties in the departments. There is not usually "Initiation" as in Fraternities.
She might meet the faculty who are in charge of welcoming and counselling new students, in the respective departments.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

if she's taking her first grad courses, she meets: other students; the instructor, and advanced grad student or someone with a PhD already, who's not a professor; any number of professors [of different ranks], in charge of the courses, and these could be from 25-70 years old. There would be a chairperson in her dept.

She might meet officials in the grad school, e.g. deans, etc. but students have limited contact usually. The deans are older and usually married, of course.
---

Yes, there might be an orientation week or something before classes start: some talks and open houses and cocktail parties in the departments. There is not usually "Initiation" as in Fraternities.

Orientation was the word I wanted to use, but after struggling with my vocabulary for three hours it still hadn't come to me.

I have decided after this last post that he will be an advanced grad student, and they will meet during an orientation talk

And this will take place at Yale because it is closer to where I live than the other big universities (Yale is in New Jersey, right?)

 

[jomar]

Bush is still going to be in office in ten years?

No, she gets a job in his administration and helps him decide to do all the stupid stuff he's done.

Do graduates still have student advisors? Maybe I should make the man her professor, or a dean. Is there an initiation period or day or anything for graduate students?

Some programs probably do. In others you might work with professor on research and they become a mentor. In other programs you're pretty much on your own with students supporting each other. I'm not sure what you mean by initiation period/day. In college they often have an orientation for incoming freshman. But at the graduate level you just show up for class. You have to apply, register for classes, pay fees and all that, but no big orientation. However, maybe different schools do things differently. You could have an informal cookout at a professor's home where students meet the each other and the profs. Depends on how big you want to make the program (# of students).

 

[Pure]

yale is in new haven CONN.
princeton is in princeton NJ

 

[TheeGoatPig]

yale is in new haven CONN.
princeton is in princeton NJ

"What's on the menue?"

"Scrambled brains. Yours, in fact."

"Oh, I'll have them well done then, thank you."

 

[cloudy]

I've never known there to be an orientation for grad students. It's always for freshmen who are away from home for the first time, etc.

 

[Pure]

orientation

in mentioning a week devoted to orientation at a grad school i did not mean something quite so formal and centralized, such as happens when all frosh are herded into a lecture hall, and told about things.

our campus has a 'graduate students' association,' which would have some talks, open house (free beer), maybe an evening.
the is also a 'foreign students' association' with social events. it should be mentioned that, while grad students are NOT usually away from home for the first time, they may be new to the Univerisity or even the country. so it makes sense that a graduate school have some measures, formal and informal, to deal with students and their housing issues, etc. and that these talks or open houses would occur in the week or two when people are registering for classes.

NOTE: AH, THEE GOAT: I should have mentioned that 'registration' is a key event in the week before classes; lining up and filling out forms, ie. to prove you have turned up; to arrange to pay; to receive scholarship money, etc. also amenities like obtaining library cards and health services access. for instance all grad students may be eligible for some kinds of insurance.

it should be added that 'graduate students' are not a homogeneous group, but are clustered by departments. each department is going to have some talks for new person, cocktail parties., etc. that way, say in philosophy dept, all the new students meet each other.

each department's 'new student' faculty advisors are going to be meeing with these students. some profs are going to be around to introduce themselves or be available.

 

[cloudy]

in mention a week devoted to orientation at a grad school i did not mean something quite so formal and centralized, such as happens when all frosh are herded into a lecture hall, and told about things.

our campus has a 'graduate students' association,' which would have some talks, open house (free beer), maybe an evening.

it should be added that 'graduate students' are not homogeneous group, but are clustered by departments. each department is going to have some talks for new person, cocktail parties., etc. that way, say in philosophy dept, all the new students meet each other.

each department's 'new student' faculty advisors are going to be meeing with these students. some profs are going to be around to introduce themselves or be available.

A grad student is a much more political animal than an undergrad. Something I despise, but it's just something you have to do.

 

[Pure]

so were you a grad student, cloudy? if so, what happened when you first arrived? my account above is from my experience and from talking to others, e.g., at conferences. i'm sure there are large differences according to size of university, type of university, department of univeristy, setting (urban or rural), time period etc. also region of the country.

 

[cloudy]

so were you a grad student, cloudy? if so, what happened when you first arrived? my account above is from my experience and from talking to others, e.g., at conferences. i'm sure there are large differences according to size of university, type of university, department of univeristy, setting (urban or rural), time period etc. also region of the country.

I just met with my faculty advisor to go over the classes I was planning to take, the scheduling of my thesis, what I was looking at using for my thesis topic, etc. It was very, very informal.

Of course, I'd been out of college for quite awhile when I decided to go back for my master's.... maybe 8 years or so after graduating with my BS. We mostly talked about scheduling, and how often she expected progress reports, etc.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

NOTE: AH, THEE GOAT: I should have mentioned that 'registration' is a key event in the week before classes; lining up and filling out forms, ie. to prove you have turned up; to arrange to pay; to receive scholarship money, etc. also amenities like obtaining library cards and health services access. for instance all grad students may be eligible for some kinds of insurance.

Ah, registration! Brilliant. Noted

 

[Pure]

size

hi cloudy,

I should add that size--of graduate school and of graduate department-- is obviously a key factor, as regards organization, formality, etc. I was at an urban grad school of 10,000 with a department with maybe 150 grad students of whom 30-40 might be new in a given year.

another factor is the % of students expected to do doctorates. if a university or college has a small program of 1-2 years for MAs, for 'mature students' (e.g., school teachers, long employed), there is less 'orienting' to do! esp. where many are married and living in the city to begin with (i.e., no housing issues).

in the case of Yale: with its professional schools, probably the grad population is at least a few thousand. That might translate, i'm speculating, to maybe a thousand new grad students, including professionals, in a given year. Princeton has no professional schools, and is smaller.
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NUMBERS

yale's site
http://www.yale.edu/graduateschool/academics/profile/graduate_school.htm

lists about 2400 PhD students, about 400 new ones a year.

its law school (counted separately; its own website)
http://www.law.yale.edu/about/about.asp


apparently admits about 200 new persons a year, so the law school must have, i'm guessing, at least 800 students all together.

 

[cloudy]

hi cloudy,

I should add that size--of graduate school and of graduate department-- is obviously a key factor, as regards organization, formality, etc. I was at an urban grad school of 10,000 with a department with maybe 120 grad students of whom 20-30 might be new in a given year.

another factor is the % of students expected to do doctorates. if a university or college has a small program of 1-2 years for MAs, for 'mature students' (e.g., school teachers, long employed), there is less 'orienting' to do! esp. where many are married and living in the city to begin with (i.e., no housing issues).

in the case of Yale: with its professional schools, probably the grad population is at least a couple thousand. Princeton has no professional schools, and is smaller.

The school I went to was fairly small, and the thing I really liked about it was the informal atmosphere. Faculty were very approachable - not intimidating in the least - and the weirdest thing was that they seemed to really want to help.

The undergrad school I went to was a bit bigger, and my department was fairly informal (once they got to know you - Dr. Cho would intimidate the shit outta you if you let him - he would greet me with "what you want now?!?!?!), but I've seen what it's like at larger schools, and was glad I had the opportunity to attend a good, accredited school that was on the smaller side.

 

[jomar]

A couple of other things that you could consider for use as a plot device: 1) grad students teach undergraduate classes. 2) they also get paid to work for professors in some capacity (I forget the term - assistantships?). Some professors want help with research, some want help grading papers, others want you to open their office, turn on the light and water their plants.

 

[cloudy]

A couple of other things that you could consider for use as a plot device: 1) grad students teach undergraduate classes.

Ah, yes...the "grad-ass"

 

[Pure]

jomar, i'd add:

or feed the one-eyed snake.

 

[Grushenka]

TGP: All the above fits. I say that as a univ. librarian of some years (now at a med school). I'd only add that the major difference with grad students is that they're treated like independent, mature adults (even when not). There's no ordinary 'homework' and typical exams, or spot quizzes. Grads are expected to know what they want and do what's needed to achieve it. Skipping a class is no big deal, you'ew expected now to figure out what you missed and get it on your own. Sometimes there are no courses, or they are very loosely structured, after the first term. Grades are often simply pass/fail. You're on your own, no one keeps tabs on you as there's usually a waiting list of other peeps biting at the bit to take your spot, especially at a big name school. You quickly learn, or drop out otherwise, just what needs to be done to keep your place.

It depends on your area (humanities, law, science, etc.), but your main concern will be Research and striking out on your own. If you're aiming at an academic career, then it's a dog-eat-dog battlefield to make your name, to impress, to sow the field for future publishing, starting with conceptualizing, structuring, writing and getting your thesis accepted.

All that to just say don't have your characters worried about their homework, missing classes or getting detention for silly stuff.

Also, for the big name schools (Ivy, UC Berkeley and the like) often students choose to go with the big name academics, eg, "I came to Yale to study under prof so-and-so.") For instance, you could have your couple meet when they learn they're both being mentored by Prof So-and-so. Or they might both have gone to Big-Name U. cuz that's the place to have a doctorate in biochemistry or Restoration Comedy.

Good luck, Gru

 

[TheeGoatPig]

Ok, plenty to think about. But I think I have all that need, since it is going to be a short wank story, and doesn't need to go too much into detail of how the school is set up.

 

[jomar]

Ah, yes...the "grad-ass"

or feed the one-eyed snake.

Ha! I like you two!

 

[JamesSD]

I'm a graduate student in the physical sciences, and things are a little different for us than the humanities.

You apply to a specific program at the universities in question after taking the general GRE, along with (usually) a subject GRE (i.e. Chemistry, Biology, Physics). My program we all entered as BA/BS students on a PhD track. My school has an MS program that is more coursework based, but it's pretty much limited to undergraduates from here, where the majority of the PhD students come from other schools. We had close to 60 students entering in my class, which is relatively large for the department, and Department is the 2nd biggest on campus.

Some people knew exactly who they wanted to work for coming in, and a handful had more or less been accepted with the informal understanding they would go work for a specific Professor. We actually did have an orientation week, which consisted of safety training, some pretty brief introduction on how to be a Teaching Assistant, and placement tests to see if we needed to take any "remedial" undergraduate courses to make up for holes in our undergraduate knowledge.

Depending on the department, students formally joined a lab, under a specific Professor sometime between Christmas of that first year and the end of the academic year. Science graduate students recieve a stipend on top of all expenses and tuition being covered. Per year, it's usually not too much more than working full time at McDonald's, but it's better than the humanities, who are usually dependant on money from Teaching.

There's a mentor-mentee relationship with the Professor you work under, who is principally responsible for funding, guiding your training, and by whose grace you remain in grad school, and ultimately decides when you're done. The department does have guidelines, and you have other professors on your committee who need to approve your defense, but ultimately, 90-95% of it is in the hands of your boss, the Professor.

People do change labs, especially during their first year and early in the second year, and sometimes even later. People drop out steadily through the course of the program. It's much easier to drop out from a science PhD program because of the stipend and the fact there's no tuition debt, unlike Law School or Medical School.

Science graduate students tend to be quite apolitical and detached from campus life as a whole, getting sucked into their individual labs. In my program we primarily only took classes in our first year, only taking things our second year that were of special interest to us. Most of us hung out, socialized, partied and drank heavily our first year, which quickly tapered off as we became second and third year students.

I could write more, but I'm sure this isn't too interesting to anyone, and is more an FYI, since it's clearly irrelevant for the story of the original post. Mostly I just wanted to say "Grad school in science is similar but distinct from the Humanities"