Request for Advice

[Night_Jasmine]

Given most of my friends are here, I figured this would be the best place to go. It's not sexual related but it is personal.

Some of you know I've made some life altering decisions over the past year to two years. Discovering my sexuality as well as a path of life that fit me better than the harsh christian mold my family forced me into. I'm pagan and so very happy and at peace for the first time in nearly 31 years.

Again, this is a decision I can't share with my family. Like my sexuality, being pagan will cause more strife than I'm prepared to deal with at the moment. Especially with a grandfather in poor health.

At the moment, religion is pretty much considered topic verboten - not discussed around me. However, my mother has been sending all these religious forwards even after I expressly asked her not to. She knows how I feel..that I do not have any love for or desire to follow the path she's chosen.

I'm wise enough to know that everyone has their own paths to follow. I respect her love for her path, but what I can't handle is the constant worries and religious material she's flooding me with. Today was the last straw. Apparently, someone went to her during church and told her that I needed "intercession." Apparently, it upset her to the point where she's been upset and bawling during her prayer time.

I know my mother loves me, and I do love her. I worry for her because she's got blood pressure problems, and I'm angered someone would step up like that and cause her undue worry.

I have tried being gentle and firm, asking her to please respect my decision in not hearing about her church and religious ways. She's said ok but that god would pull me back into his fold eventually.

I don't know what more to do. After reading her email today, knowing how upset she is and how badly this can affect her health, I have no idea how to approach this issue without letting the cat out of the bag, so to speak.

Ideas anyone? Please?

 

[Wolfman1982]

NJ: if you are thinking of leaving your home for good(I don´t know what else it could be about life altering decisions). Then leave, since that is my advice on your behalf. But about the coming out or not, then let her churchfiends (yes I said fiends), find out you are gay, or not. Since then she can always email you or something. But I don´t know what else to say. But anyway PM me, if you want to tell what else you feel is life altering decisions.

 

[Night_Jasmine]

What I meant by decisions: turning away from a religion I'd been forced into since I was a child and going onto my own path and becoming pagan. As well as deciding to take steps to explore my sexuality and fight past the programming I was given as a child (girls and guys, no homosexuals permitted in their minds), as well as fighting for my own dreams.

My main decisions was putting me first, doing what I have longed to do and becoming a better person inside. I'm seeking enlightenment in my own ways and it's a path they would shun me for.

I took a huge financial risk for this new job, against their advice. I don't live at home, haven't for some time, but my mother is advising me to return home so I can save up and move forward. I can't do this. I know I can't..but this religious thing is hampering our relationship and it's hurting me. The thing is, I don't know how else to handle it without giving everything away. I'm not ready for outting myself yet.

 

[Wolfman1982]

NJ: Then listen to this, remove every email , or letter she sends you, where there are that fuckedup fanatic religion in them. And ignore her, I know it will be tough for a while, heck believe me, it IS. Since I am basically ignoring my mother, except for a few times every year. But the only thing you can do, to get forward. Is to ignore her, and the religion. Heck you can even rebel against it. I live 1 kilometre away from my mother, and I am fine with that arrangement, so ignore her religious babble, and her "brethren" in it. But at the same time, do it with love, and not hate. Be kind, friendly and all that, but be firm in your choices. But I don´t know anything else. So at christmas eat at her place, or anything like that a few days every year, be near them. But live your own life, and ignore the pleadings. And especially when it comes to the intercessions, fuck I god damn hate those things. And especially two days ago, then there was a global prayer day, and I became ill, of their numbskull mumblings at the City Hall in Copenhagen the other day.

 

[Night_Jasmine]

Most of the time, we get along well but she still keeps sending those damn forwards. *sighs* Yeah, I know what you mean about the National prayer day. I have no idea about what prompted this person to step forward and tell her that "your daughter has been on my heart, you need to intercede for her like Moses did.." yadda yadda. Part of me wants to go down there and tell that person off for trying to horn in and upset my mother like that.

The results were she sends me this long drawn out religious story, which I can't stand. I reminded her - AGAIN - that these stories are not appreciated and unwelcome. That's when I heard about this intercession thing and I very nearly put my fist through my monitor screen.

I'm hurt and angry that people can't let me live life the way I want and need to! I live miles away from my family, and that doesn't seem to stop them from wanting to live my life for me. From my grandfather on down - I just don't know what to do. I isolated myself from my father (who had been the worst at the time) and then the next thing I know, he's got my grandfather all worried (he's close to 80, for gods' sake!) and asking if my father had done anything wrong, that he hated seeing his family torn up.

It wasn't easy to make the decisions I've made. I want so badly to find my soulmate and live my life and while I'm waiting, I'm making changes to myself - changes needed. I want and need to be happy and love myself for who I am. I'm trying to be centered and peaceful, acting out of wisdom instead of irrationality.

It's like every step I take, they're trying to pull me back a mile. The damage done my character - a lot of it they did while I was a child. My mother has accepted a lot of the blame for the damages...not realizing that I still shudder facing a mirror because of her. Now she tells me I'm beautiful and loved, but doing as she's doing now, I question it.

 

[Wolfman1982]

tell the person off !!! who said you were on the persons heart. And I don´t know what to say, and damn I am clueless. Heck, get a new email adress.
Or just totally ignore them, since this is sadly beyond my comprehension....

 

[Night_Jasmine]

Thank you for listening.

 

[Wolfman1982]

Thank you for listening.

I just wish, I could hug you for insurance, that everything would be alright. But I can´t. And you know that...

 

[Night_Jasmine]

Nothing is all right, nothing is guaranteed in life. I know...hard lesson to learn, but I do know. All one can do is continue to try and keep your sights set on the goal.

 

[Tymeless]

Jasmine the simplest thing to tell your mother to tell her friend and so your mother can get the point that your relationship with god is between you Jesus and god. Tell them that if that is meant to be your path you will go down it but its between you jesus and god and that there interfering is only going to push you further away.

 

[playwithlezli]

It sounds like you are being very reasonable Jaz, be patient, maybe one day it will work out, maybe it won't but then at least you will know that you gave it an honest chance.

hugs

 

[Night_Jasmine]

I'm trying. Just feels like I'm being cracked into peices trying to force myself not to fall back into old patterns and meet their expectations of me.

 

[playwithlezli]

I'm trying. Just feels like I'm being cracked into peices trying to force myself not to fall back into old patterns and meet their expectations of me.

so true, it is hard to break away from the habit of pleasing others, but I hear it can be done!

 

[Night_Jasmine]

I am trying. That's all I can do.

 

[yukonnights]

more advice?

Dear One, this is obviously a very serious question to you. The only reason I even propose to offer advice is that I think your getting some bad direction here that seems to encourage you to sever your relationship with your family. It's obvious that you have great concern for them all ( in fact it is your concern for their distress, and not yours, that has caused the upset to your peace of soul).

So, consider the upset and pain you would cause IF you turned your back on your loved ones in anger over this issue. Consider also that this "prayer intercession" issue is not actually doing you any harm is it? If it makes them feel better, would it not be possible for you to "peacefully" let them do so out of love for them?

It is good for you to find yourself, but not at the expense of others. A true state of peace is when you can accept what the world throws at you and your pond is not rippled- you simply absorb it into you without upset. Does your heart tell you that to respond to this issue in anger or in the cutting off of relationships is the right path? Is it not that the very thought of such an action on your part is in fact a large factor in your upset state? Only you can answer these kind of questions.

Without this getting too long, let me suggest this; Return love with love. (It is only out of love that they do what they do. You must know this even if you know what they are doing is wrong for you) Perhaps it's not that big of a deal to say to mom, "thank's mom, we can all use prayers." and then turn the conversation to something more pleasant. In that way you leave her (them) with their hope (and that puts you in the position of love). I hope you get my point; Reject the message if you choose but don't reject the messenger. To reject those who love you is selfish love, and that is not true love at all. And I think your heart will tell you that selfish love ends in loneliness and despair, not peace.

And just so you know, I too consider myself a Christian. And I too know that I am bi-sexual. I know that modern American Christianity makes no sense. I don't really consider it to be true Christianity but instead a very modern phenomenon. But, if you study the early church I think you will find that Christ's real message is one of love. In fact, if you look at the "list of sins" in the New Testament you'll find lying, gossip, hypocrisy, greed and a host of others right beside homosexuality. One is not greater than the other (unless it is hatred). Don't we all lie? Don't we all gossip? Point being is that Christ knows who we are and what we are and He is still LOVE. And He calls us to be the same.

I do hope this helps, if you want to talk please PM me. "Be at peace...and do no harm...

 

[Night_Jasmine]

It isn't that I want to leave them behind. If I could coexist peacefully with them, I'd be happy to do so. It's just that my wishes and needs are ignored in light of what they view to be right. My mother has, during unwanted religious conversations, called homosexuality an abomination and that those who practice it are as well.

What I would love is for them to acknowledge verboten topics and not bring them up. She called me earlier today, all excited about her church service on Sunday. She knows I do not want to hear of it, even though she also knows I'm pleased she's interacting with others after her divorce, but brings it up anyway.

My family has chosen their paths, I accept that and wish them peaceful joy with it. I just understand deep in my soul that their path is not for me. I've tried to explain that without causing more strife, and yet it seems that my words aren't sinking in. It's ripping me into peices because I'm trying to be true to myself and also be a daughter/sister/granddaughter they can love. My grandfather and mother mention praying for me, I thank them. I pray as well but within the context of my own path. I just don't want their ways crammed down my throat anymore.

For years, I have had to live by their morals and rules. It tore me apart. I've had so much trouble rebuilding and doing it in such a way that it harms none. *sighs* I don't know what to do. Honestly...

 

[dirtmonger0]

h3elp me

i just want to understyand how this works /?????????

 

[neonflux]

Jasmine,

I would offer, rather than advice, a story of my own, also involving my mother. The issue that divided us was slightly different - it involved the way I was living my life but not religion or sexuality. However the situation was the same.

I love my mother a great deal - she is, in many ways a remarkable woman and I owe so much of who I am and how I navigate the world to her - I owe her my character, I think. But when I was in my late 20's I had to separate myself from her and from my sister (my favorite person in the world) in order to find myself. I know that it was painful for both of all of us, but I went for a year without talking to either of them.

When I came back, I was much more confident in myself, and much more able to view their concerns for me and demands on me from a different perspective - to understand emotionally, viscerally, in my gut, what I had only been able to understand intellectually before - that I was separate from them and that their concerns were a reflection of their love for me, not evidence of their disapproval.

This became the basis for a new relationship that is now one of deep love, trust, mutual appreciation. But it was the temporary separation that allowed me to grow enough in confidence to approach them in a new way.

I am not in any way, shape, or form suggesting that my solution should be yours. You are being so brave in claiming your truth, especially one that is so different from the "truth" with which you were raised. That is bound to make you very vulnerable -transition can only increase that vulnerability because, as exciting and incredible as it is, and as empowering as it can be - it requires you to change everything.

I do agree with yukonnights that, from what you've described, your mother's concerns are coming from her love for you and her desire to eventually "be in heaven with you." You are her child - she cannot help but fear for you considering her belief system.

You can tell her that you love her. You can tell her that you are not doing anything out of a desire to hurt her. But she will have her own feelings as you will have yours. And I suspect that were you to allow her feelings to keep you from doing what you need to do in order to claim your truth, it would only greatly hurt both of you in the long run... And if you cannot tell her your truth, that is OK for now. Please do what your gut - and soul - tell you to do. Eventually, things will get better, as awful as they happen to be right now.

I am sorry that you (and your mom) must go through this. My heart is with you.

Neon

 

[neonflux]

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q91/cleasf/poppies_and_dasies_2237_small.jpg

Neon

 

[Tymeless]

Jasmine,

I would offer, rather than advice, a story of my own, also involving my mother. The issue that divided us was slightly different - it involved the way I was living my life but not religion or sexuality. However the situation was the same.

I love my mother a great deal - she is, in many ways a remarkable woman and I owe so much of who I am and how I navigate the world to her - I owe her my character, I think. But when I was in my late 20's I had to separate myself from her and from my sister (my favorite person in the world) in order to find myself. I know that it was painful for both of all of us, but I went for a year without talking to either of them.

When I came back, I was much more confident in myself, and much more able to view their concerns for me and demands on me from a different perspective - to understand emotionally, viscerally, in my gut, what I had only been able to understand intellectually before - that I was separate from them and that their concerns were a reflection of their love for me, not evidence of their disapproval.

This became the basis for a new relationship that is now one of deep love, trust, mutual appreciation. But it was the temporary separation that allowed me to grow enough in confidence to approach them in a new way.

I am not in any way, shape, or form suggesting that my solution should be yours. You are being so brave in claiming your truth, especially one that is so different from the "truth" with which you were raised. That is bound to make you very vulnerable -transition can only increase that vulnerability because, as exciting and incredible as it is, and as empowering as it can be - it requires you to change everything.

I do agree with yukonnights that, from what you've described, your mother's concerns are coming from her love for you and her desire to eventually "be in heaven with you." You are her child - she cannot help but fear for you considering her belief system.

You can tell her that you love her. You can tell her that you are not doing anything out of a desire to hurt her. But she will have her own feelings as you will have yours. And I suspect that were you to allow her feelings to keep you from doing what you need to do in order to claim your truth, it would only greatly hurt both of you in the long run... And if you cannot tell her your truth, that is OK for now. Please do what your gut - and soul - tell you to do. Eventually, things will get better, as awful as they happen to be right now.

I am sorry that you (and your mom) must go through this. My heart is with you.

Neon

very well stated neon very well stated

 

[yukonnights]

Jasmine, how far are you physically separated from your family? Would a bit more distance help?
I agree that a person your age should (must) live their own life. Being a parent of grown children about your age, I confess that it's not always as easy to do that as it is to say it. But, as you firmly and with love continue to show them that you are a responsible adult they hopefully will let up. They must come to realize that even in their own belief system, that if they believe that their prayers are going up to God, then they are showing a decide lack of faith by continuing to "solve the problem" with their own strength and wisdom. They have to come to the point of believing what they profess about God's infinite nature and let you go, trusting in God for your "salvation". Right now they are showing that they don't really trust Him to do that. (maybe you could politely mention that to them next time this comes up; sort of move them in that direction if get my drift)

Have you considered putting more space between you? Is it an option for you?

I know it sounds hard, but you must really try to search out all of your options for being left to live your own life without destroying your family relationship. The pain you will face from that will be much greater than the annoyance you are now dealing with.

How about family counseling? An unbiased professional might be able to talk some sense into them.

 

[Night_Jasmine]

I do love her. I tell her that and make sure she knows it.

Gods, it's just been one big uphill battle since I can remember. My counselor, when I was in college, was furious at the stresses I was under because of family. I had to be the perfect girl - only person in the immediate family without a neurological disorder or learning disability. Ultimate christian, ultimate student, ultimate everything.

It's only due to two dear friends of mine, sisters in a way, that stopped me before I could hit critical mass again. One showed me why I was feeling the way I was sexually...both explained that it wasn't wrong..that I'm not an abomination. The other showed me that I didn't have to be so discontent, that there were other paths I could take.

Nearly two years restructuring myself, rebuilding myself into who I want to be. I try to follow "and it harm none" to the best of my ability. But I'm terrified of harm to myself because, even with the loving respect I give when I keep repeating the request to back off the religious material, they keep on with it.

My worst fear is losing what I've done already...

 

[Night_Jasmine]

To be honest, Yukon, counseling doesn't work for my family. My dad's new wife thinks they're perfect and my mother...well...she's tried it before and quit because "they didn't know beans."

I'm about 300 miles away from them and looking to put quite a few more states distance between myself and them. I'm waiting for this new job to stabilize out and then it's up to the gods as to where I go from there.

Honestly..my parents..my brother..and to some extent, my grandfather suffer from an extreme amount of pride. *sighs* That's something I had to face several years ago. Ugly time in my life...

 

[yukonnights]

Jasmine, sounds like your far enough away to have some options for being in more control of the situation. How do they reach you? Telephone?
If that's the way they intrude, then you have all the control you need. No more phone calls accepted. Henceforth, we shall communicate by written word ( really much better anyway as the emotions don't get so fired up). Would that work?

I hear what your saying about pride. Interesting note, did you know that the early Christian fathers identify pride as the root of all "sin"? One can actually trace every evil that man can do to his own pride.(pride being the belief that I am the most important thing in the universe. Greed=my needs are more important than yours, Anger/Hate/Murder= i'm right your wrong, Lust/Rape/Slavery= my satisfaction is more important than yours.....)

 

[Night_Jasmine]

Yeah, I know. I could beat my parents in bible trivia at the age of eight. Sad isn't it? Up until a few years ago, I was highly educated (to use the word lightly) in the bible. That's one of the reasons I became so disillusioned and even repulsed by christianity.

Most of the time, it's either by phone or email. Still, there's no boundaries at all and when I try to establish them, they're not respected. I'm told I'm rude if I try to change the topic gently or treated harshly. *sighs* My dad simply goes to my grandfather or brother and complains that I'm being standoffish. THen it causes more strife.