Rememberance Day

[rgraham666]

A little early, but what the hell.

It was eighty seven years ago that the guns stopped firing on The Western Front. People hoped it was the end of 'The War to End All Wars'.

Sadly that wasn't the case.

Still, on this day, November 11 at 11:00 AM, we stop to remember the people who fought and died in that war and all the wars since.

At least I do.

I'll never forget. And I promise, in my own small way, to keep up the fight. Their sacrifices will not be in vain.

 

[joeys-game]

Flanders Fields

 

[bholderman]

rgraham,

Just a note, its been expanded here in the States to "Veteran's Day."

But to comment on the day in question, I had just finished a general history of World War I and my perceptions have changed somewhat. Being that it is now distant enough in our past that we dont observe it in the way we do the second world war (at least in the U.S), I think its perhaps the most misunderstodd war in recent history.

Unlike Hitler and Hirohito, one doesnt see a true villain. True, the Germans were on the opposite side, but they were dragged into the mess just like everyone else in lieu of all the secret treaties and alliances.

Then the men, millions. We are shocked in today's world at the 2,000th US fatality in Iraq. The combined casualty figure for WW1 is close to 8 million, 10 million if you include the missing. That doesnt include civilian deaths. With the subsequent influenza epidemic, between 1914 and 1920, 10 million plus people had died.

How would we react to that today?

My hobby is 1890 to 1920, I could ramble about this period all day. But thanks for bringing it to our attention.

http://www.firstworldwar.com/photos/graphics/cpe_russian_rear_01.jpg

 

[Boxlicker101]

rgraham,

Just a note, its been expanded here in the States to "Veteran's Day."

But to comment on the day in question, I had just finished a general history of World War I and my perceptions have changed somewhat. Being that it is now distant enough in our past that we dont observe it in the way we do the second world war (at least in the U.S), I think its perhaps the most misunderstodd war in recent history.

Unlike Hitler and Hirohito, one doesnt see a true villain. True, the Germans were on the opposite side, but they were dragged into the mess just like everyone else in lieu of all the secret treaties and alliances.

Then the men, millions. We are shocked in today's world at the 2,000th US fatality in Iraq. The combined casualty figure for WW1 is close to 8 million, 10 million if you include the missing. That doesnt include civilian deaths. With the subsequent influenza epidemic, between 1914 and 1920, 10 million plus people had died.

How would we react to that today?

My hobby is 1890 to 1920, I could ramble about this period all day. But thanks for bringing it to our attention.

If you had to have one villain, it would be the Kaiser. It was his decision to violate human decency and an international treaty and invade Belgium. All the major powers involved, with the possible exception of the United States, went into it with the hope of gaining some benefit for themselves.

I remember seeing a political cartoon in a history book. God and Satan are playing poker. A very sad God says "I've got a full house."

Satan smiles and says "You lose. I've got four kings." He was refering to the emperors of Russia, Austria-Hungary, Germany and The Ottoman Empire.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

If you had to have one villain, it would be the Kaiser. It was his decision to violate human decency and an international treaty and invade Belgium. All the major powers involved, with the possible exception of the United States, went into it with the hope of gaining some benefit for themselves.

I remember seeing a political cartoon in a history book. God and Satan are playing poker. A very sad God says "I've got a full house."

Satan smiles and says "You lose. I've got four kings." He was refering to the emperors of Russia, Austria-Hungary, Germany and The Ottoman Empire.

Um, Britan violated international law by blockadeing the Baltic sea. Well aware that seizing neutral cargos would cause starvation in Germanny, Killing innocent civilians and in violation of multiple international acords governing trade with waring powers.

Russia violated every tennet of international law to open hostilitites, byt interveening with force in the internal affairs of another country.

It could be argued rather successfully that German was given no choice but to violate the neutrality of the low countries. fterall, they were cut off from sea access by a British Navy acting in violation of international law.

Using international agreeements for placing blame is pretty useless. All the countries involved in WWII had signed the Kellog-Briand pact outlawing war in 1928. Pre world warI, treaties between nations often were filled with secret protocols and the system of alliances that had kept the peace generally since the Russo-Japanese war guarenteed a masive conflict should any of the Nations invilved take offensive action. Logically Nicolas od russia is the main Culprit since his declaration of war on Austria-hungary precipitated the chain reaction of alliaces kicking in.

If you want to blame the Kaiser, his real crime was (gasp) trying to build a fleet to rival the Royal Navy! The Cheek. His high seas fleet managed to do what no one, no war however hideous, no natrual disaster had been able to sice henry won at Agincourt. Make the French and Brits get along.

Scoialists/Marcxists will tell you the real culprit wasn't even a person, it was an ideology that ebraced colonialism and the crushing of the prolietrain masses by industiralization and serfdom.

There are very few nations who cant be blamed. Oddly, everyone's favorite nation to blame for every ill that has befallen mankind since the black plague, the US is blameless. We weren't part of the alliance system and maintined our neutrality scrupulously during the early phases. Japan could even be blamed, for whiping Russia's ass in 1905. That forced Russia to write some checks with her mouth that her ass was incapable of cashing to save face, because after Tushima, there was very little she could claim to be able to do militarily.

You can't blame the Ottoman's or Itlay either. Both were forsworn to come in on both sides by the various treaties they had signed

 

[hotchkiss]

And what have Mankind learned from this?

Absolutely nothing, those that cause wars seldom get involved, just the poor grunts on either side, people who would have lead normal lives otherwise.

How many have died since and still are dying this day? how many disabled, mentally and physically?

Waste pure unmitigated waste!


with sorrow and rememberance

 

[Equinoxe]

 

[oggbashan]

Just remember so we don't repeat the mistakes.

Britain and its Empire went to war in 1914.

Soldiers from all over the Empire fought and died to preserve the independence of Belgium and France.

The Empire's soldiers were of many races and many religions. Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddists, those belonging to other religions or no religion at all, died together fighting for a common cause.

The sacrifice of people from the Empire changed the perspective of the UK's government towards aspirations of self-government in the colonies and territories of the Empire. After 1918 it was no longer possible to regard different races as 'inferior' and incapable. They had proved their worth in battle.

Women's suffrage also gained from the demonstration of women's work during the First World War.

Governments move slowly. All women didn't get the vote until 1928. The colonies didn't gain full independence until long after WWII when they had sent soldiers to fight for Britain again.

Honour those who died, and those who had damaged lives, fighting for freedoms we still hold dear.

It is still a shame that we as a country could accept other races as equals when fighting side by side on the field of battle and take so long to grant them the freedoms they were fighting to preserve for us.

Og

 

[rgraham666]

I'm very pissed at you people.

I started this thread to honour those who fought and fell.

You use it to argue history and assign blame.

Very, very unhappy.

 

[hugo_sam]

I'm very pissed at you people.

I started this thread to honour those who fought and fell.

You use it to argue history and assign blame.

Very, very unhappy.

Rob,
I SO very much agree.
Some people have little concept of appropriate behavior.
I started one on Veteran's day. I specifically stated no politics and included Rememberance day in it as well. COme on over. If people start this shit there, I do my best to shut it down.
Sorry they ruined a good thing!!

 

[Equinoxe]

I'm very pissed at you people.

I started this thread to honour those who fought and fell.

You use it to argue history and assign blame.

Very, very unhappy.

You're very right, and for my part, I apologise.

 

[rgraham666]

Thank you, Eq.

 

[china-doll]

http://www.allbloggedup.com/nickball/archives/images/MemorialDay_WW2Memorial.jpg

 

[Boxlicker101]

I'm very pissed at you people.

I started this thread to honour those who fought and fell.

You use it to argue history and assign blame.

Very, very unhappy.

I agree, and I apologize also. This is no time for argument, especially so many years after the fact.

 

[bholderman]

Sorry, I think I started it all.

 

[oggbashan]

We should remember those who died and continue to die defending our liberties.

Since the beginning of the 20th Century in every year except 1968 British Service people have died on active service.

We remember the dead. So we should. We should never forget.

We should also remember the living. Buying a poppy in the UK supports the British Legion who work for the benefit of ex-service people.

I am still ashamed that we have not learned to treat those who survive properly.

Widows and children of British Servicemen who die in Iraq still face losing their homes because they are no longer 'service' families.

The dead deserve better from us. The living and those the dead supported deserve our rememberance as well.

Og

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I'm very pissed at you people.

I started this thread to honour those who fought and fell.

You use it to argue history and assign blame.

Very, very unhappy.

Rob, you know I, as much as anyone, honor veterans. I don't see how remembering their struggles and discussing the war and ideals for which they fought and died dishonors them. World War I is one of the least studied and least understood contemporary wars. So many died and so many who survived were shattered by the experience. It is only by rem embering them and the sacrifices they made that you can really remember them.

I'm trribly sorry for upsetting you. Was not my intent at all.

 

[rgraham666]

Forgiven Colleen. And everyone else.

But if you were going to argue history, I would have preferred you'd started a separate thread.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Forgiven Colleen. And everyone else.

But if you were going to argue history, I would have preferred you'd started a separate thread.

Were I to have to to do over again I would have.

*HUGS*

 

[RogueLurker]

A little early, but what the hell.

It was eighty seven years ago that the guns stopped firing on The Western Front. People hoped it was the end of 'The War to End All Wars'.

Sadly that wasn't the case.

Still, on this day, November 11 at 11:00 AM, we stop to remember the people who fought and died in that war and all the wars since.

At least I do.

I'll never forget. And I promise, in my own small way, to keep up the fight. Their sacrifices will not be in vain.

Thanks for posting this thread.

For my dad:
The one thing he always insisted on was that we we honour this day.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

http://www.wildflower-seed.com/images/flanders.jpg

Poppies in Flanders Field

They say more than I ever could.​

 

[AppleBiter]

For all of the brave Canadian men and women who have served and are serving their country:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/photogalleries/remembrance2003/images/intro.jpg