Reluctance to punish?

[s_red830]

Do any PYLs here find themselves reluctant to punish their pyl when they have done something wrong?

Now I know that there are a whole bunch of flavors on here and some like punishment more than others. I actually expect to get a decent amount of replies saying that the PYL is reluctant to punish their pyl, just as much as I assume that there will be PYLs who get off from punishment.

Personally, I'd rather just talk it out and have him obey me just by that... I really don't want to punish him, per sé. I'm not a big fan of conflict, even though I do have a good deal of fun with sadistic play (now that I've realized that sadistic =/= barely consensual.) But punishing people for real life mistakes? Ehhhh... I'd rather go about correcting them otherwise.

Now, although my instincts tell me otherwise, I am going to ask the question: does this make me undomly?

 

[Netzach]

Do any PYLs here find themselves reluctant to punish their pyl when they have done something wrong?

Now I know that there are a whole bunch of flavors on here and some like punishment more than others. I actually expect to get a decent amount of replies saying that the PYL is reluctant to punish their pyl, just as much as I assume that there will be PYLs who get off from punishment.

Personally, I'd rather just talk it out and have him obey me just by that... I really don't want to punish him, per sé. I'm not a big fan of conflict, even though I do have a good deal of fun with sadistic play (now that I've realized that sadistic =/= barely consensual.) But punishing people for real life mistakes? Ehhhh... I'd rather go about correcting them otherwise.

Now, although my instincts tell me otherwise, I am going to ask the question: does this make me undomly?

If it makes you undomly it makes me positively vanilla.

I don't play that. I know it works for some people, I've really *liked* some subs who *need* it and it doesn't work for me.

If someone does something that's for real pissing me off, we discuss it.

If someone's submissive to me, they will make really good-faith efforts to quit it.

If someone's making a TRUE good-faith effort, I honestly cannot find fault.

If they are not they are not submissive to me, and ergo, not suitable to be with me.

 

[s_red830]

If it makes you undomly it makes me positively vanilla.

I don't play that. I know it works for some people, I've really *liked* some subs who *need* it and it doesn't work for me.

If someone does something that's for real pissing me off, we discuss it.

If someone's submissive to me, they will make really good-faith efforts to quit it.

If someone's making a TRUE good-faith effort, I honestly cannot find fault.

If they are not they are not submissive to me, and ergo, not suitable to be with me.

I you, Netzach. I agree.

Calm, rewarding leadership (at least in the historical sense) seems to work far better than dictatorship (because that often results in a slave revolt, hee.)

But thanks for affirming what I was saying.

Disclaimer: this is not intended to insult anyone who Dominates through punishment... just what I've learned in my limited experience.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Do any PYLs here find themselves reluctant to punish their pyl when they have done something wrong?

Now I know that there are a whole bunch of flavors on here and some like punishment more than others. I actually expect to get a decent amount of replies saying that the PYL is reluctant to punish their pyl, just as much as I assume that there will be PYLs who get off from punishment.

Personally, I'd rather just talk it out and have him obey me just by that... I really don't want to punish him, per sé. I'm not a big fan of conflict, even though I do have a good deal of fun with sadistic play (now that I've realized that sadistic =/= barely consensual.) But punishing people for real life mistakes? Ehhhh... I'd rather go about correcting them otherwise.

Now, although my instincts tell me otherwise, I am going to ask the question: does this make me undomly?

great Topic! and i know i'm not a PYL *grins* but there are those of us submissives who NEED that 'discipline' i, being one of those. i find that when Master punishes me He only need do it once, and i correct that behavior, though most of the time He doesn't punish, we just as you said, talk about the behavior and move on, the only times i've been punished was when i'd done something really wrong (like the time i told Him 'NO!' and then when He said 'What did you just say to me?' and instead of saying i'm so sorry Sir, i continued on with 'Since when am i not allowed to say no?' and it went on and on....so yea, for that i deserved the punishment and talking about it obviously did not work because i just kept digging my hole. but for the most part Master does not have to punish me. He did punish me while He was here for forgetting to wear my collar BUT it was a flogger and well....the flogger isn't punishment for me *grins* so it was just more of a re-enforcement than a 'punishment' anyway, i'm looking forward to reading the replys to this topic as i think it's a good one

 

[Ebonyfire]

If I set goals for my sub or slave, give clear direction, I find that punishment is not necessary.

If they make mistakes, I have to find out why, and invariably it is because my direction was not clear or misunderstood. I correct it and go from there.

Since I can discipline any time I want, I do not feel the need to use punishment to correct mistakes.

Eb

 

[Bredon]

Hey,

I cannot speak about 24/7 relationships, because I wouldn't want to have one, and have no experience whatsoever with it--

I wouldn't want to mix up real-life conflict with BDSM. I find that too confusing. I had one situation with my Xsub when I was honestly annoyed and angry about something that ze did, but ze couldn't know it, and I didn't tell hir. I was boiling inside and unable to express how I felt-- when I topped hir, I hit hir in the face for the first time-- it made complete sense within the scene,and ze was only surprised because I had never done it before-- but it screamed WRONG!!! to me. the impulse was not very far from actually abusing hir. I was disgusted with myself-- It was only a tiny thing, but I am adamant now to never carry a negative emotion against the sub into a scene again, or if one comes up I would halt the scene immediately.
It would be OK to vent anger or aggression that I feel for my boss or something-- I could use that energy and turn it into something energetic-- But when I use anger that I feel for my sub against my sub-- where do I draw the line to real abuse? And how can I keep that relatively detached headspace that I need to dom?

Bredon

 

[s_red830]

great Topic! and i know i'm not a PYL *grins* but there are those of us submissives who NEED that 'discipline' i, being one of those. i find that when Master punishes me He only need do it once, and i correct that behavior, though most of the time He doesn't punish, we just as you said, talk about the behavior and move on, the only times i've been punished was when i'd done something really wrong (like the time i told Him 'NO!' and then when He said 'What did you just say to me?' and instead of saying i'm so sorry Sir, i continued on with 'Since when am i not allowed to say no?' and it went on and on....so yea, for that i deserved the punishment and talking about it obviously did not work because i just kept digging my hole. but for the most part Master does not have to punish me. He did punish me while He was here for forgetting to wear my collar BUT it was a flogger and well....the flogger isn't punishment for me *grins* so it was just more of a re-enforcement than a 'punishment' anyway, i'm looking forward to reading the replys to this topic as i think it's a good one

Thanks. If I may ask, do you really need punishment if usually just a talk will do?

 

[s_red830]

Hey,

I cannot speak about 24/7 relationships, because I wouldn't want to have one, and have no experience whatsoever with it--

I wouldn't want to mix up real-life conflict with BDSM. I find that too confusing. I had one situation with my Xsub when I was honestly annoyed and angry about something that ze did, but ze couldn't know it, and I didn't tell hir. I was boiling inside and unable to express how I felt-- when I topped hir, I hit hir in the face for the first time-- it made complete sense within the scene,and ze was only surprised because I had never done it before-- but it screamed WRONG!!! to me. the impulse was not very far from actually abusing hir. I was disgusted with myself-- It was only a tiny thing, but I am adamant now to never carry a negative emotion against the sub into a scene again, or if one comes up I would halt the scene immediately.
It would be OK to vent anger or aggression that I feel for my boss or something-- I could use that energy and turn it into something energetic-- But when I use anger that I feel for my sub against my sub-- where do I draw the line to real abuse? And how can I keep that relatively detached headspace that I need to dom?

Bredon

I know what you mean. You know, that's something that I hadn't thought about that might occur in a 24/7 relationship... mixing up scenes with regular life. Well, it had occured to me when you brought up how kinksters are codependent only in a scene, but not in this context. If you are mad at your sub, how do you avoid taking it out on them without breaking the dynamic for however long it takes to talk it out? This is an honest question and I don't mean to offend anyone by it... I'm just curious.

 

[s_red830]

If I set goals for my sub or slave, give clear direction, I find that punishment is not necessary.

If they make mistakes, I have to find out why, and invariably it is because my direction was not clear or misunderstood. I correct it and go from there.

Since I can discipline any time I want, I do not feel the need to use punishment to correct mistakes.

Eb

Sounds like a good plan to me.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Thanks. If I may ask, do you really need punishment if usually just a talk will do?

no i don't, and like i said 9 times out of 10 He can correct my behavior just by simply 'pulling the leash' so to speak and letting me know i was out of place. punishment is saved for those times that talking just doesn't do it. i'm stubborn and sometimes when i'm being 'talked to' about my behavior, i start defending my behavior instead of just listening and then letting it go and changing that behavior, those are the times He finds it necessary to 'punish' though i can only think of about 3 times i've actually been punished

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I know what you mean. You know, that's something that I hadn't thought about that might occur in a 24/7 relationship... mixing up scenes with regular life. Well, it had occured to me when you brought up how kinksters are codependent only in a scene, but not in this context. If you are mad at your sub, how do you avoid taking it out on them without breaking the dynamic for however long it takes to talk it out? This is an honest question and I don't mean to offend anyone by it... I'm just curious.

again i'm not a PYL so i'm not sure how much my opinions are wanted here *grins* but Master, if He's really angry with me, He will 'walk away' and then deal with it after He calms down, so that He will not take that anger and frustration out on me. He may put me in the corner, or make me sit on the couch or whatever while He goes somewhere else to think and calm down and then come back and rationally 'talk' or punish me. and to me, that's almost punishment enough. i know in these times i'll be beating myself up for what i've done and wondering what He's going to do to correct it, and that's scary, a couple of times He used the waiting as punishment enough.

 

[s_red830]

again i'm not a PYL so i'm not sure how much my opinions are wanted here *grins* but Master, if He's really angry with me, He will 'walk away' and then deal with it after He calms down, so that He will not take that anger and frustration out on me. He may put me in the corner, or make me sit on the couch or whatever while He goes somewhere else to think and calm down and then come back and rationally 'talk' or punish me. and to me, that's almost punishment enough. i know in these times i'll be beating myself up for what i've done and wondering what He's going to do to correct it, and that's scary, a couple of times He used the waiting as punishment enough.

That seems like a good strategy. How do you end up talking about it?

 

[s_red830]

again i'm not a PYL so i'm not sure how much my opinions are wanted here *grins* but Master, if He's really angry with me, He will 'walk away' and then deal with it after He calms down, so that He will not take that anger and frustration out on me. He may put me in the corner, or make me sit on the couch or whatever while He goes somewhere else to think and calm down and then come back and rationally 'talk' or punish me. and to me, that's almost punishment enough. i know in these times i'll be beating myself up for what i've done and wondering what He's going to do to correct it, and that's scary, a couple of times He used the waiting as punishment enough.

Okay, just wondering because you said:

and i know i'm not a PYL *grins* but there are those of us submissives who NEED that 'discipline' i, being one of those.

Misunderstanding, I believe.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

That seems like a good strategy. How do you end up talking about it?

not sure i understand the question?

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Okay, just wondering because you said:

Misunderstanding, I believe.

what i meant was that wow lol it's hard to explain, i do NEED that punishment sometimes, talking doesn't always work with me, as i don't know when to shut up as i said, so at those times He knows that i'm needing to be Punished, they don't happen often. but i've seen alot of pyl's that 'crave' the punishment and talking it out just would never work, that's what i meant by some submissives needing that. hopefully i'm making sense to you and not just babbling because i'm not sure how to explain what i meant.

 

[s_red830]

what i meant was that wow lol it's hard to explain, i do NEED that punishment sometimes, talking doesn't always work with me, as i don't know when to shut up as i said, so at those times He knows that i'm needing to be Punished, they don't happen often. but i've seen alot of pyl's that 'crave' the punishment and talking it out just would never work, that's what i meant by some submissives needing that. hopefully i'm making sense to you and not just babbling because i'm not sure how to explain what i meant.

No, I think I understand now: you need punishment in the sense that sometimes it is necessary to put you in your place, but it's not an essential element of a good relationship for you. Yes?

And about the talking-about-it question... I mean, when your Sir does come back, after he has calmed down, how do you go about discussing what you did to displease him? Does he just punish you with a level hea... oy, I think I confused myself. Let me get back to you on that one, lol.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

No, I think I understand now: you need punishment in the sense that sometimes it is necessary to put you in your place, but it's not an essential element of a good relationship for you. Yes?

And about the talking-about-it question... I mean, when your Sir does come back, after he has calmed down, how do you go about discussing what you did to displease him? Does he just punish you with a level hea... oy, I think I confused myself. Let me get back to you on that one, lol.

yes. you are right on the first part of your post, that is exactly what i meant as far as talking about things after He has calmed down, our lines of communication are pretty open, no He doesn't just punish me when He comes back after calming down. We talk about what happened and then if He thinks i still do not get it, He'll punish me...again hoping i'm answering the question the way you meant it

 

[s_red830]

yes. you are right on the first part of your post, that is exactly what i meant as far as talking about things after He has calmed down, our lines of communication are pretty open, no He doesn't just punish me when He comes back after calming down. We talk about what happened and then if He thinks i still do not get it, He'll punish me...again hoping i'm answering the question the way you meant it

I gotcha. I'll take that into consideration as a method for dealing with it. Thanks.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

I gotcha. I'll take that into consideration as a method for dealing with it. Thanks.

The worst punishment that I can give her is when I say and mean "I am disappointed in you." (Not something I say when I don't mean, because I know the effect those words have on her.) As we are at a distance right now there are a few punishments that I have at My disposal that are not physical in nature. Even as we transition to rt I don't forsee Me using physical punishments on a regular basis. As it is now, I can give her assignments or give her certain restrictions, etc... But more than anything else she kicks herself bad when I use the above phrase.

9 times out of 10 when she is in a bratty mood or whatever I can express that she is on the wrong path and she will straiten up her act.

I honestly don't like to "punish" her in that means that there has been a breach somewhere, but I will do it when necessary.

Overall, she knows her place and her rules quite well and while she mayh push on occasion, she rarely crosses the line.

 

[myinnerslut]

like rose, im not a PYL, but i thought id add my 2 cents as well. Sir isnt reluctant to discipline me when i deserve it. "deserving it" is usually breaking a rule, disobeying an order, or something like that. he does hesitate to use physical punishment. lately his punishment of choice has been orgasm denial, which while still a punishment isnt physical/ corporal at all.

and as long as you have a way of correcting behavior that needs correcting and/or maintaining order with your pyl, then reluctance to punish does not make you less domly, IMO

 

[Netzach]

If I set goals for my sub or slave, give clear direction, I find that punishment is not necessary.

If they make mistakes, I have to find out why, and invariably it is because my direction was not clear or misunderstood. I correct it and go from there.

Since I can discipline any time I want, I do not feel the need to use punishment to correct mistakes.

Eb

I just want you to know that it's been your opinion on this topic that has most influenced my own - I always felt kind of weird on the subject of punishment, and then when I saw you post on this somewhere in the past it just really clicked. I've really found this a useful way to conduct my boys and it makes SUCH sense to me on a gut level.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I will weigh in on this discussion which may or may not make sense to people. Punishment does not happen often in this house, but when it does it is severe and doesn't allow for me to reflect too much during the punishment on how I feel about disappointing him. Once upon a time it was different, but over time F has come to realise that is not healthy mentally for me, or conducive to trying that little bit more. Does it mean I go out of my way to disobey? Nope, but there have been times when depression or life events have gotten me into such a pit I am physically and/or mentally unable to perform something he has requested or expected of me.

While some PYL's would see that as a time to either end the relationship because they don't think punishment should be necessary in a D/s relationship, or that I should be excused because it is beyond my control, I have to disagree on both counts at least for us. Neither of us enjoy or welcome punishment or the negative feelings associated with it, but if he didn't punish me I would lose respect for him as a Dominant. I may be submissive, but I don't submit just because someone tells me they are the Dominant and I should submit without any further reason than that, nor do I submit to anyone and everyone, so to take the stance punishment should never happen because the submissive should just submit and obey for me does not feel Dominant and also doesn't feel like there is much interest from the Dominant in the relationship or D/s to begin with. No-one is perfect, to expect perfection 100% or make a person walk just doesn't work for me in so many ways which I will not bore everyone with the intricacies of.

As to not punishing because it is beyond my control, it actually helps me to mentally deal with the disappointment in myself, to fight the issue of the depression or life's little wonders which is crippling me, and more than anything says he cares enough to bother. It probably doesn't make sense to some, but it is how it works best for us. I can't submit in a vaccuum which probably helped me resist the many fakes online who used to try and verbally bully me into submitting to them because they put Sir or Master or Dom before their online name and felt that was enough.

Do I want to submit? Yes, and that once was a major problem for me as I fell into the trap many subs do of doing more than was asked in the mistaken belief it would please or somehow prove how willing I was....I learned the hard way that a submissive cannot always know what it is a Dominant wants, nor that a Dominant welcomes them superceeding their orders of their own accord, even with the best intentions. IMHO sometimes, despite the reluctance to do so, punishment is a huge positive for the relationship, the D/s and the people involved.

Catalina

 

[s_red830]

The worst punishment that I can give her is when I say and mean "I am disappointed in you." (Not something I say when I don't mean, because I know the effect those words have on her.) As we are at a distance right now there are a few punishments that I have at My disposal that are not physical in nature. Even as we transition to rt I don't forsee Me using physical punishments on a regular basis. As it is now, I can give her assignments or give her certain restrictions, etc... But more than anything else she kicks herself bad when I use the above phrase.

9 times out of 10 when she is in a bratty mood or whatever I can express that she is on the wrong path and she will straiten up her act.

I honestly don't like to "punish" her in that means that there has been a breach somewhere, but I will do it when necessary.

Overall, she knows her place and her rules quite well and while she mayh push on occasion, she rarely crosses the line.

Gotcha. Yeah, the "I am dissapointed in you," even without so many words, seems to get the message across quite effectively. I'm guessing that's because of the ultimate desire to please.

The basic message that I try to use when dealing with someone I'm dissapointed in is "now, you're a great sub, but if you do that again I will have to twist your balls off." (Figuratively, of course... I'm not into castration. )

 

[s_red830]

like rose, im not a PYL, but i thought id add my 2 cents as well. Sir isnt reluctant to discipline me when i deserve it. "deserving it" is usually breaking a rule, disobeying an order, or something like that. he does hesitate to use physical punishment. lately his punishment of choice has been orgasm denial, which while still a punishment isnt physical/ corporal at all.

and as long as you have a way of correcting behavior that needs correcting and/or maintaining order with your pyl, then reluctance to punish does not make you less domly, IMO

Hey, I'm happy to have pyls' opinions, too.

And thank you.

 

[s_red830]

While some PYL's would see that as a time to either end the relationship because they don't think punishment should be necessary in a D/s relationship, or that I should be excused because it is beyond my control, I have to disagree on both counts at least for us. Neither of us enjoy or welcome punishment or the negative feelings associated with it, but if he didn't punish me I would lose respect for him as a Dominant. I may be submissive, but I don't submit just because someone tells me they are the Dominant and I should submit without any further reason than that, nor do I submit to anyone and everyone, so to take the stance punishment should never happen because the submissive should just submit and obey for me does not feel Dominant and also doesn't feel like there is much interest from the Dominant in the relationship or D/s to begin with. No-one is perfect, to expect perfection 100% or make a person walk just doesn't work for me in so many ways which I will not bore everyone with the intricacies of.

As to not punishing because it is beyond my control, it actually helps me to mentally deal with the disappointment in myself, to fight the issue of the depression or life's little wonders which is crippling me, and more than anything says he cares enough to bother. It probably doesn't make sense to some, but it is how it works best for us. I can't submit in a vaccuum which probably helped me resist the many fakes online who used to try and verbally bully me into submitting to them because they put Sir or Master or Dom before their online name and felt that was enough.

IMHO sometimes, despite the reluctance to do so, punishment is a huge positive for the relationship, the D/s and the people involved.

Catalina

I agree that punishment is sometimes very necessary. I didn't mean to seem like I expect a sub to obey me just because I tell them to... recieving submission requires trust, openness, and, well, control. I just would rather not punish my sub, if it can be avoided.

A lot of people seem to say that punishment can be very cathartic, which is something I'll consider, seeing as I tend to keep my emotions inside. (Disclaimer: yes, control. no, inaccessible.)