Religious question

[JaymesBlond007]

Is it possible for one to claim, " I'm going to Heaven."? Does the declaration of such, imply that this individaul assumes that they are ahead of others in some undefined line?

If so, would the forementioned person then be contrasting her/himself with others, showing that they are "proud"? Is pride a virtue?

I'm not really religious. I can't grasp the concept of it. I can't understand how one person can be as honest, or curtious, or humble... or whatever, as another, but not reach "ascension" because they had two seperate views about the same God.

I wonder quite often what will become of my concience when my physical body ceases to exist. I can't exactly join a religion, because in their own views, none of them are going to Heaven.

I want to go...from what I've heard it sound like a pretty cool place.
I kind of just go through life trying not to f**k up, (operative word being trying )

What do y'all think? Should you be courtious because it is the appropriate thing to do? Or should you join a Faith, sin your ass off, then pray like Hell right before you die.

 

[Andreina]

im bound for hell anyway... *evil wicked grin*

but send me a postcard from heaven if you should make it up there

 

[MidnightAngel]

You've put a lot of thought into this. Cool!

Personal opinions? I often wonder about people who say "I'm going to Heaven because I'm __________(Insert religious affiliation here). I don't think that anyone will go to Heaven simply because they go to church; and I don't think anyone won't go because they DON'T go to church. I believe that where you go when you die is based upon your actions. I believe God has a sense of humor (I'm counting on it! )

Yeah, I think you should be kind to other people, treat them the way you would want to be treated. If you believe in Heaven, that seems like a good way to get there. If you DON'T believe, it's still a nice way to be.

 

[Andreina]

I'm nice to people because it is in my nature. I help people because I know how it is not being helped. I dont know if I believe in "Heaven" or if I believe that the people who have had a special relationship in life will meet again in a different "sphere" when they are dead.
I would like to believe that something like that will happen, not a bodily meeting, but a meeting of souls (if you know what i mean) because there are a few people who died and whom I miss like ummmm.... hell.

Yours saintly,
LDWAH

 

[JaymesBlond007]

I've got two Devils answering my question about Heaven. Wonderful...I'm soooo screwed.

I agree with both of your answers. Isn't it safe just to be nice? If there isn't a God, oh well I was a better person. If there is God, I would have to believe that based on my nature, I would deserve some fringe benefits.

I hope your paying attention up there!

 

[Malachi]

No Heaven, No Hell

When we die, it's friggin' over, or at least that's what I believe. Still, I think we pay the price for our 'sins' and reap the benefits of our 'virtues' in our own lifetimes. If you *really and truly* want to be selfish you will treat people well, gain people's trust, and never break it. People who do otherwise are not just bad or evil, they're *fucking stupid!*. This is what some people refer to as 'enlightened self-interest.' As it so happens, it is also important for me to believe that I am a good and honest person. As Rachel would say, "Cool-Party-Bonus!" I win twice. I don't need God to reward me a third time. He can take his 'Heaven' and his 'Hell' and... and... Well, I don't want to piss anyone off too badly....

 

[alltherage]

I don't spend too much time worrying about what comes next. I learned from a buddist friend of mine not to concern myself with that. I actually belief that I am creating my world as I live in it. There was a time when I was angry and bitter and hostile to the world. It nearly killed me to be that way. I learned to deal with the anger and tried to quell the bitterness not because I feared hell in the next life but because I was creating one in this life.

 

[mig]

If you believe in Heaven, that seems like a good way to get there. If you DON'T believe, it's still a nice way to be.

I'll drink to that.

 

[Georgia Girl]

As LDWAH stated, I am nice because that is who I am not because I think it will get me something or somewhere. As for what I believe religiously, my heart wants to believe that there is an afterlife and that all of those dear to my heart who have passed on will be there to meet me but I will not know until I get there. I don't believe that sitting on a pew assures you a place in heaven, what is important is what is within your heart.

I don't understand the logic of many religions, one comes to mind that claims only a certain number will be allowed into heaven and yet they are continually out trying to recruit new members to their faith. Aren't they lowering there own chances each time they bring in some one new? This particular faith makes me crazy if I spend too much time discussing it with co-workers who practice it.

I do believe that there are angels among us though.

Dawn

 

[p_p_man]

I want to go...from what I've heard it sound like a pretty cool place.

Sounds pretty boring to me.

All those clouds, harps and saintly looks...

AAggghhh!

 

[VanB]

The old adage of treat others as you would wish to be treated goes a long way towards being nice or considerate or helpful or whatever. Whether there is or isn't heaven or hell is really rather a moot point as I firmly believe that you reap as you sow - hence my signature.

 

[Guest]

"I am the way , the truth, and the life. No one can come to the father except through me. " John 14:6


For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23


God saved you by his special favor when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. Ephesians 2:8-9

So get rid of all malicious behavior and deceit. Don't just pretend to be good! Be done with hypocrisy and jealousy and backstabbing. You must crave pure spiritual milk so that you can grow into the fullness of your salvation. Cry out for this nourisment as a baby cries for milk, now that you have had a taste of the Lord's kindness. 1 Peter 2:1-3


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Is it possible for one to claim, " I'm going to Heaven."? Does the declaration of such, imply that this individaul assumes that they are ahead of others in some undefined line?

Yes it is possible to claim you are going to Heaven.

If so, would the forementioned person then be contrasting her/himself with others, showing that they are "proud"? Is pride a virtue?

No, it is not pridefull to make this claim, YOU didn't have anything to do with it it was given to you as a gift....if you believe Jesus died for you and you confess your sins to God (not man) then salvation is yours.....it cannot be taken away. [b/]


I'm not really religious. I can't grasp the concept of it. I can't understand how one person can be as honest, or curtious, or humble... or whatever, as another, but not reach "ascension" because they had two seperate views about the same God.

I am not religious either, it has nothing to do with being "religious" and everything to do with a "relationship" with Christ. Good deed alone will not get you to heaven.[b/]

I wonder quite often what will become of my concience when my physical body ceases to exist. I can't exactly join a religion, because in their own views, none of them are going to Heaven.

You do not have to "Join a religion" (see above) It is between you and God alone. I enjoy going to church for the fellowship and small groups that I participate in. It helps to "feed me"

I want to go...from what I've heard it sound like a pretty cool place.
I kind of just go through life trying not to f**k up, (operative word being trying )

I imagine it is going to be a super cool place..ummm no pun intended

What do y'all think? Should you be courtious because it is the appropriate thing to do? Or should you join a Faith, sin your ass off, then pray like Hell right before you die.

Well, it would be nice if everybody was courtious regardless of the reason. And if you join a Faith then sin your ass off, chances are you didn't have any "Faith" to begin with. The reason we do good deeds is to try and honor God and to thank him for the incredible gift & Grace he has given us. When you come to God and ask him for forgivness it does not mean you will forever be perfect, we are all sinners , everyday, it means that you try your hardest everyday to be a person who honors God. The flip side of this is that Faith alone is useless:

Suppose you see a brother or sister who needs food and clothing , and you say "well, goodbye, and God bless-stay warm and eat well" but then you don't give that person any food or clothing. What good goes that do? So you see, it isn't enough just to have Faith. Faith that doesn't show itself by good deeds is no faith at all-it is dead and useless. James 2:15-17

Just because I can confidently say that Yes, I am going to Heaven does not mean that I think I am better than anybody else, A sin is a sin, it does mean that when I know I am doing something that is not right....my conscience does not allow me to continue that behavior....

 

[Adoratrice]

Sorry , that was me up there.....been awhile since I've done this

 

[JaymesBlond007]

In response to the "unregistered" poster...

I understand Christianity. My mother attends church and often teaches sunday school. I aknowledge the Bible. Although I cannot quote chapter and verse, I do understand that in order for my soul to be saved I must recognize the "Christian God" and worship no other. Jesus died on the cross for my sins, therefore granting me passage in to Heaven if I accept God and live my life, with an honest heart, as a Christian.

But what if I'm Hindu? What if I'm Islamic? What if I'm a Taoist or Buddhist or Shinto? I still believe in God. Just not your God. I am still humble, forgiving, accepting... I guess that's worthless now!?

I'm coming back around to my whole misunderstanding of religion.
Whose right?

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

I may answer this later on after work I am on lunch break, but i am sure noone really wants to hear my rightwing fundamentalist drivvle, but i'll probably post anyways

 

[mig]

but i'll probably post anyways

I'll look forward to it.

 

[MidnightAngel]

I'll drink to that.

What are we drinking, Mig? And will we both go to hell for being drunk and disorderly in the Religion thread?

 

[mig]

What are we drinking, Mig? And will we both go to hell for being drunk and disorderly in the Religion thread?

Mines a pint of best.
Hell.My holiday address.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

The atheist point of view...

Not believing in God, Heaven or an afterlife does not preclude you from the need for spirituality. Seek that which humbles you, whether art, family, or garden contemplation, and throw yourself upon that altar.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

But what if I'm Hindu? What if I'm Islamic? What if I'm a Taoist or Buddhist or Shinto? I still believe in God. Just not your God. I am still humble, forgiving, accepting... I guess that's worthless now!?

Actually Islam and Judaism (not mentioned) do believe in the same God as Christianity, but they do not believe that Christ was/is God - same God, but not the same - clear as mud?

I'm coming back around to my whole misunderstanding of religion. Whose right? [/B]

I do not know, but I believe Christianity is the closest to the truth.

What happens if you do not believe in, and accept Christ as a saviour? According to Christianity, only those who do will go to heaven. There is some issues with regards to those who died before Christ was on earth, and there are answers that Christianity gives, but there seems to still be some slack there.

So, given that and other issues, I am not going to say that people who are not Christians will go to hell, and I am not going to brag about my going to heaven. To tell other people they are going to hell would be judgemental, all I can do is tell people what the Bible says and let them form their own conclusions. To boast about going to heaven would be equivalent to saying that I had earned or deserved it, which I do not - it is a gift given to me despite my sinful behavior.

For those that say "I am a good person, and that is enough - if God is just then I will go to heaven", I would say that is essentially the same as those who boast that they are going to heaven because they are Christians as if they had earned the title, instead of it being a gift.

That is one of the fundamental tenets of Christianity; that no one can earn their way into heaven, that each person must accept that tenet; that they do not deserve to go to heaven, and that it is a gift given to them despite their behavior, not because of it.

 

[JaymesBlond007]

To be perfectly frank, I'm not the type to be debating religion, but I opened this can of worms so guess I have to take a bite. It kind of makes me nervous. These types of discussions have tendencies to fly off the hook and people are offended rather quickly. I'm trying to consider eveyones points of view so please be civil about this.

Previously posted by Shy Tall Guy
Actually Islam and Judaism (not mentioned) do believe in the same God as Christianity, but they do not believe that Christ was/is God - same God, but not the same - clear as mud?

If I am reading this correctly, and I'm not sure that I am, I can't really agree. If I asked any Christian if he believed in Allah, I don't expect to get as favorable a response as I would if I asked an Islamic about their belief in God.

I apologize for omitting any non-Christian parties. The only others I can think of are the forementioned Judaism, Zoroastrianism, the Krisnas and Confucianism.

I do applaud the rest of your comments. I'm glad to see that you will allways be human. I do not see someone who claims to have "right of passage" to be very humble before the eyes of God.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

If I am reading this correctly, and I'm not sure that I am, I can't really agree. If I asked any Christian if he believed in Allah, I don't expect to get as favorable a response as I would if I asked an Islamic about their belief in God.

Maybe not, in fact, probably not, but if you go back to the roots of each of these three religions, you will find that they all believe in the same origins, basically the same God, and if you go back far enough you will find the same scriptures. Moslems do believe in the God of Moses, as does Judaism and Christianity, they just call him Allah.

Islam, Judaism and Christianity are different religions, with Judaism being very close to Christianity (you can be a Jewish Christian), and Islam being a bit further off.

I have heard that Islam does believe that there was a Christ, but they do not believe Christ was a Messiah, just a prophet like Muhammed (if I understand and interpret Islam correctly). Doing some research, I am not sure exactly what Islam believes about Christ; I have seen different sects, religions, cults, say what they believe about Christ, often trying to come across to Christians as if their religion is no different from Christianity, until you dig deeped and find out what they truly believe (the "yes, we believe that, but..." fine print) that often is contradictory or conflicts with fundamental tenets of Christianity.

One such example is this web page, where at first you read that Islam considers Christ to be a Messiah, then you read further and find that (according to the writer of the web page) Christ was a son of God, not the Son of God, and that those who make claims for his divinity are mistaken. That seems to be the difference in how Islam and Christianity view Christ.

Personally, I do not see how any religion could say that Christ was a true prophet of God, and yet not recognize him as a Messiah (I have seen one web page that claims Islam does recognize Christ as a Messiah) - that was very clear in Christ's teachings, but then I have not read extensively on the subject. In the same way I don't see how other religions could recognize Christ as some sort of prophet, yet discard some of his teachings, keeping only those they are comfortable with. To me, to do so is contradictory.

 

[JaymesBlond007]

Guess it's just you and me?

Mohammed preached that there was but one God (Allah), and that he, Mohammes, was God's messenger. Those who believed in Allah, and accept Mohammed as his prophet, are called Moslems or Muslims, or "ones who submit to the eyes of God".

Parts of the Koran resemble the Bible, the Apocrypha, and the Talmud, including many stories that appear in the Old Testament. It also contains stories about Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and other of Mohammed's prophet-predecessors. But I feel those religions are based too soley on the orginization of their members, and not the actual practice of the sermon.

How can I put my faith behind a church and years down the road the preacher/pastor is molesting the altar boys?

I really am just unquallified to talk about religion period. It's not that I don't belive in some kind of higher power, I just do not agree with how my good intentions will go unnoticed by a "fair and just God".

 

[Guest]

The atheist point of view...

Not believing in God, Heaven or an afterlife does not preclude you from the need for spirituality. Seek that which humbles you, whether art, family, or garden contemplation, and throw yourself upon that altar.

You know DCL, I suspect that you will be pleasently surprised at the end of all things to find that a Merciful God loves you anyway. You are the kind of person that will wake up and say "How did I get here?" and will get the responce that you "loved what was good, and did the right thing."

In response to the "unregistered" poster...

I understand Christianity. My mother attends church and often teaches sunday school. I aknowledge the Bible. Although I cannot quote chapter and verse, I do understand that in order for my soul to be saved I must recognize the "Christian God" and worship no other. Jesus died on the cross for my sins, therefore granting me passage in to Heaven if I accept God and live my life, with an honest heart, as a Christian.

But what if I'm Hindu? What if I'm Islamic? What if I'm a Taoist or Buddhist or Shinto? I still believe in God. Just not your God. I am still humble, forgiving, accepting... I guess that's worthless now!?

I'm coming back around to my whole misunderstanding of religion.
Whose right?

I am reminded of a joke that has a newly arrived person being introviewed by St. Peter. He is shown several diferent rooms: one has a marvelous party going on, some folks are having a scruptious feast taking place, another has a seminar type discusion, over here there is chior practice, etc. The newly dead is asked if he wants to join any of them, or he can go over here where all these things are happening at once and folks are moving back ad forth frome activity to activity. He asks "Why are all those people in thier little rooms?" "Because they know that they are the only ones here."

I suspect that whatever heaven turns out to be it will much more open, more free, and more real than anything that we have ever thought or imagined.

 

[Calamity Jane]

I don't believe in a heaven or hell... no pearly gates, no Charlton Heston as God, waiting to pass judgement on me.

I DO believe that it's important to be a decent person, for the simple reason that life is usually more pleasant that way. I believe in karmic return, and that helps keep me from sending ou negative energy when the desire to be nice wears thin.

I do not afiliate with any religion. I'm a witch. I have created my own spiritual path that I follow, and I honor the codes and ethics that I have incorporated into it. It's mine alone, and no less valid than one that has been watered down for the masses.

I don't believe that just by being a 'member' of a religion, you are guaranteed anything except that the church will ask for your money. However, I also don't believe Christianity to be a religion, but a spiritual path (and yes, there is a difference). And I think if more people followed the teachings of the person called Christ, and not Paul, then the world would be a far better place.