Religious, not political

[ABSTRUSE]

I'm going to stir the pot, so to speak.

I'm from the States, for those who don't know me. It's been a debate about keeping the name of "God" deeply set in state and school, on the currency, in public in general.

I bring this up, being that the community here is not all from the States, but international.

My opinion, and it is just that, is that this country was founded on religious freedoms first. The right to freely worship any deity....any deity. Not everyone that fought for the USA is Christian.

This country was already inhabited by the Native Americans and a belief in a Creator.
A large part of the world does not believe in 'the old white haired man with the beard'.

I'm not trashing anyone's beliefs, I just don't think its fair to assume.

The depiction of "god" and the holy family and saints, were visualized by caucasian artists who painted in the genre of their surroundings....thus....blue eyed, brown haired Jesus. Blonde haired Mary, Mother of God.


Discuss.

 

[Miss_Pixie]

Personally, I sometimes think if they did away with all pretext of "Separation" because it really isn't seperate.

 

[oggbashan]

In the UK, in the 1950s, the Boy Scouts expected that some of their members would not be Christian so provided for alternate versions of the Boy Scout promise which could refer to another deity/deities, or none.

50 years on, have we learned anything?

Og

 

[Miss_Pixie]

Only that some religions need to spend less time preaching and more time doing...

 

[bronzeage]

Personally, I sometimes think if they did away with all pretext of "Separation" because it really isn't seperate.

If one studies a time in the past when God and Government were synonymous, one will see we have a great deal of separation.

There is no reason to expect a person to leave their religious beliefs behind when they go to work, whether in the private sector, or in the government. If a job requires one to violate a religious principle, then the job has to be forfeit.

A job in the US government requires a person to deal with all citizens without regard to their religion, or lack of it. That is what our separation of church and state means.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm an atheist. *shrug*

You can put my hand on a bible and it means diddlysquat to me-- the vow, however, of impeccable truthtelling-- that's important. I do not need a god to help me do that.

 

[3113]

I don't see any reason why there should be "god" mentioned on the money or the pledge (that was added in the 50's--it wasn't there originally--and it was added for a really stupid reason--for fear of commies!).

If you cut it out, what happens to Money or the Pledge? Nothing really. You take god out of church (or mosque or temple or whatever) and it has no purpose. But if something retains its purpose without a mention of god, then there seems to be no reason to put it in excepting that either (1) you want to preach and convert--which interferes with that rules that the government can't promote a religion and (2) you indicate a superstition--that somehow without mention of god something bad will happen. Why should the government buy into anyone's superstition?

Now the counter argument is that it isn't "doing any harm" but there's no evidence that this is true, and if it's not doing harm there, then it won't do harm to take it out, so why not take it out? People can say, "Under god" if they like--freedom of speech says they can say, "Under Allah" or "Under Satan" if they want--but it shouldn't be part of the official pledge that gets taught to people's kids.

 

[glynndah]

I work at a grade school where, unless I duck out of the morning assembly, I have to recite the pledge every morning. I leave out the "under God" part and I have since junior high.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I work at a grade school where, unless I duck out of the morning assembly, I have to recite the pledge every morning. I leave out the "under God" part and I have since junior high.

Something that is perfectly legal, though a lot of people forget the fact. Heck, you can't even be required to recite it, yanno?

 

[glynndah]

Something that is perfectly legal, though a lot of people forget the fact. Heck, you can't even be required to recite it, yanno?

Usually I'm late enough that I just skip it, but occasionally I need to make an announcement or something. Eight o'clock is just a rough estimate for me. Everyone knows this. As long as I'm in the library by the time the first class comes running in, I'm "on time".

 

[Miss_Pixie]

I work at a grade school where, unless I duck out of the morning assembly, I have to recite the pledge every morning. I leave out the "under God" part and I have since junior high.

I have an aversion to most organized religion so I do my own thing. I went to school in rural Indiana where almost every class said a prayer before lunch, even in High School. I never did Participate and if I couldn't leave the room or the circle everyone stood in, I just said Blessed Be and called it good.

 

[cloudy]

When I had to testify in court up in Ontario (it's a long story), they gave me the choice of swearing to tell the truth on a bible, or just swearing to tell the truth - something I think should be going on here in the states.

I always get aggravated when people (usually fundies) want to call this a "Christian Nation." NO IT ISN'T. One of the first principles of the new nation was a separation of church and state, and absolutely nowhere does it say, or even imply that this is a "Christian nation."

Get over it.

 

[Miss_Pixie]

Another thing that's NEVER mentioned in U.S. history in my area is that Jefferson didn't write the Declaration to include Women, Native Americans, Blacks, or any Non-Christian individual...

 

[cloudy]

Another thing that's NEVER mentioned in U.S. history in my area is that Jefferson didn't write the constitution to include Women, Native Americans, Blacks, or any Non-Christian individual...

We weren't even considered citizens of the U.S. until 1924, in the nation that we'd lived in for thousands of years.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Jefferson didn't write the Constitution. He was in Paris.


One of the reasons religion flourishes in the United States in contrast to Europe is that each faith is free to proselytize without interference. Of course, freedom also includes the hard parts. It also means that each faith has to be self-supporting. The result? Just ask Charles Darwin. The best adapted survive and those used to being given a hand-out by the gov, wilt. The First Amendment is the best thing that ever happened to religion.

 

[amicus]

Abstruse...been a long time, welcome back and nice thread idea...

It is an interesting discussion, nationwide, taking many things into consideration but seldom getting to the meat of the matter...if I may.

The Christian God, Religion, Protestant or Catholic or any derivation, is and has always been, a source of moral guidance for communities and societies in the Western world for thousands of years.

The Ten Commandment form the basis for laws, large and small, since the time of the Magna Charta.

I suppose one can postulate Darwin as the beginning of the ongoing questions concerning from whence we came and where we goeth and how to get there in one piece and enter the Pearly Gates...

Statistics say that most American's believe in God, in one form or another; is not the majority represented by a reference to God in community affairs?

I used to have the audacity to think that all religious people were stoopid until I observed what so called intellectuals belief in and the moral systems they live by and advocate.

There is also the matter that most people prefer to 'believe' in something and follow it, rather than think it through and perhaps stand alone.

regards...

amicus