Religious Discrimination or just not a very good hairdresser?

[Vermilion]

A muslim woman who wears a headscarf was turned down for a job in a hair salon because the owner felt that her stylists should be examples of the kind of styles available...

Full article available here

Is this religious discrimination or just business sense? Or perhaps Bushrah Noah was just not a very good hairdresser...
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[cloudy]

Business sense.

The owner of the salon is correct: a salon is all about image. If the stylists there keep their hair covered all the time, what does that say about their competence to someone walking in off the street?

Noah is suing her because she "hurt her feelings." Not quite a valid reason for a discrimination lawsuit.

I'm all for racial and religious equality, but you have to consider your beliefs when you choose a career.

 

[keeblercrumb]

Business sense.

The owner of the salon is correct: a salon is all about image. If the stylists there keep their hair covered all the time, what does that say about their competence to someone walking in off the street?

Noah is suing her because she "hurt her feelings." Not quite a valid reason for a discrimination lawsuit.

I'm all for racial and religious equality, but you have to consider your beliefs when you choose a career.

Good point.... you would think that someone who believes a woman's hair should be covered as a matter of religious conviction.... would not seek employment as someone trying to make women's hair attrractive in public...

Yep. Business Decision.

-KC

 

[Chantilyvamp]

Business sense.

The owner of the salon is correct: a salon is all about image. If the stylists there keep their hair covered all the time, what does that say about their competence to someone walking in off the street?

Noah is suing her because she "hurt her feelings." Not quite a valid reason for a discrimination lawsuit.

I'm all for racial and religious equality, but you have to consider your beliefs when you choose a career.

I'm with cloudy on this one. If I walked in to a hairdressers I would automatically head for the person who has the nicest hair. Anyone with mussy or unseen hair would leave me unsure and I would probably have flashbacks of my mom cutting my hair and I would not let them within 50 feet of my hair.

 

[keeblercrumb]

Business sense.

The owner of the salon is correct: a salon is all about image. If the stylists there keep their hair covered all the time, what does that say about their competence to someone walking in off the street?

Noah is suing her because she "hurt her feelings." Not quite a valid reason for a discrimination lawsuit.

I'm all for racial and religious equality, but you have to consider your beliefs when you choose a career.

I respectfully apologize to Vermillion for the following naked and thoroughly undeserved THREADJACK on what was an interesting societal question... but the devil makes me ask....

//BEGIN THREADJACK//
Uhh Cloudy? I don't suppose you somehow transported yourself across time and space to appear before my eyes in a nightclub in the middle of Russia?
No? Hmm. Well, I had 5 or 6 beers at that point but she looked..... just like you do in my imagination.....

I did not speak to her. I did not want to ruin the moment. Instead I let my mind wander along the path of the curious racial stereotypes we carry with us that could result in such confusions....

Oh and she was strikingly beautiful.... much the same impression your words have left on me here.

The moment passed as the words.... "I have looked at cloudy from both sides now..." sang to my amused inner child.

Just had to tell you that.

//END THREAD JACK//

But there is an unsettling thing about this case. How far is it from "being attractive" as say... a receptionist should be because you want to make a good impression on clients and visitors? On one level, this should only depend on how good a hairdresser she is... regardless of why she would choose to be one to begin with.

-KC

 

[Liar]

My hairdresser is bald. And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[Polarbear57]

At least, it's all Image, not Religion, maybe.

 

[Liar]

I'm all for racial and religious equality, but you have to consider your beliefs when you choose a career.

Indeed. I doubt you'll find a devout hindu working at McDonalds.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

I'm with cloudy on this one. If I walked in to a hairdressers I would automatically head for the person who has the nicest hair. Anyone with mussy or unseen hair would leave me unsure and I would probably have flashbacks of my mom cutting my hair and I would not let them within 50 feet of my hair.

I totally disagree. 90% the hairstylists I've ever seen in my entire life have had hair that was a complete mess. I always look for the person who has the most ridiculous hair in the salon and I always end up with a good haircut. The best haircut I ever got was given to me by a woman with a pink and black studded mohawk.

 

[Chantilyvamp]

I totally disagree. 90% the hairstylists I've ever seen in my entire life have had hair that was a complete mess. I always look for the person who has the most ridiculous hair in the salon and I always end up with a good haircut. The best haircut I ever got was given to me by a woman with a pink and black studded mohawk.

They might be wonderful, I just cant get past my fear to see them. Bad of me I know, though I'd probably make an exception for one with a pink and black studded mohawk.

Its not like I visit salons very much though so I just based my reaction on my fear of the mom.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

My hairdresser is bald. And that's all I have to say about that.

As is mine But since I only go once or twice a year to get my head shaved, that's ok with me

 

[Liar]

As is mine But since I only go once or twice a year to get my head shaved, that's ok with me

Mine is bald because she used to let the other hairdressers experiment with coloring on her until they eventually messed it up beyond repair. So she shaved it off, got a tattoo on the scalp and now she doesn't want to cover it by letting the hair grow back.

She's a little bit out of the ordinary that way.

 

[R. Richard]

But there is an unsettling thing about this case. How far is it from "being attractive" as say... a receptionist should be because you want to make a good impression on clients and visitors? On one level, this should only depend on how good a hairdresser she is... regardless of why she would choose to be one to begin with.

-KC

The hairdressing business is a business. A hairdresser can't work on a customer until the customer is 'sold' on the service. Only the manager can decide what is necessary to qualify to 'sell' the service to a typical customer. If the hairdressing business is a trendy 'cutting edge' place, the requirements for a hairdresser might be quite different from the requirements in a hairdressing business that services mainly older women. Unless there was hard evidence that the woman was denied employment solely because of her religious beliefs, there seems to be no case here.

 

[3113]

But there is an unsettling thing about this case. How far is it from "being attractive" as say... a receptionist should be because you want to make a good impression on clients and visitors? On one level, this should only depend on how good a hairdresser she is... regardless of why she would choose to be one to begin with.

Well, but there is a difference between a woman trying for a job as a receptionist at a make-up business who is not hired because she's not beautiful, and one who is not hired because she refuses to wear make-up. If you work for a clothing company they might require you to wear their clothing and if you can't or won't, for whatever reason, they might not want you. This isn't about beauty, it's about selling a product.

 

[3113]

They might be wonderful, I just cant get past my fear to see them. Bad of me I know, though I'd probably make an exception for one with a pink and black studded mohawk.

But that's not a "bad" hairstyle. It shows inventiveness, creativity, boldness. It *SHOWS* that the person is willing to play with hair--shave, cut, mold, etc. It's like a sculptor showing off their love of sculptures.

But what if your sculptor said, "My religion doesn't allow me to own sculptures, in fact it believes that no one should own sculptures, but I don't mind doing them for unbelievers." Might that not make you feel that you should get a different sculptor? One who could show off to you their own taste and love of such things?

Now, mind you, this doesn't mean I completely agree with the hairdresser. I do think that this woman should have been judged on her talent and not her covered head. However, a small business might not be able to take the chance of giving Noah a chance to prove herself in the marketplace. Take note that the hairdresser said that she'd tell ANY of her workers to remove a hat, so she's not just saying it to this woman. Also take note that Noah has failed 25 other interviews. So why isn't she suing all of them?

Lawsuits like this have a way of doing two things: they tilt people toward bias making them them think that those of a certain religion or tribe want to screw them, and lawsuits like this also undermine valid lawsuits. They make it harder for those facing real discrimination to get justice because it seems like they're just another frivolous, mean-spirited, personal revenge seeking lawsuit.

 

[Chantilyvamp]

But that's not a "bad" hairstyle. It shows inventiveness, creativity, boldness. It *SHOWS* that the person is willing to play with hair--shave, cut, mold, etc. It's like a sculptor showing off their love of sculptures.

Darlin that was not one of my normal jokie things. I would tend to go to one with a mohawk quite seriously. I tend to trust the more outragious people. And I like people with mohawks hence me saying I'd make an exception. And it is partially because of their creativity that I would choose them.

To do my hair takes a rare talent (and no I am not explaining that to anyone but the one I pmed) and they are liable to have it.

Plus, I still remember the blue streaks that my friend who sported a bright pink mohawk put in my hair that looked so awesome.

However, I doubt I will ever see anyone in this town in the hairdressers with one so its a mute point.

edit~ maybe in hindsight I should have defined my definition of mussy as the one with hair that looks like the crawled out of bed or your actually worried by the appearance that they might have a bug infestation, or in one case saw the bed hair, saw the womans hair she cut as the woman went crying out of the salon after she butchered it.

 

[Iconoclast99]

The salon specializes in urban funky. I imagine it would spoil their image somewhat to have a hairdresser who looked the total opposite of that, and their business would suffer. No different than a brokerage firm insisting on business wear for their employees. An individual may want to make a statement by wearing jeans and a t-shirt but the employer has a legitimate right protect their firm image.

As for using a hairdresser whose hair is done in the way you like, wouldn't it be more logical to find out which hairdresser did that person's hair?

Iconoclast

 

[3113]

Darlin that was not one of my normal jokie things. I would tend to go to one with a mohawk quite seriously. I tend to trust the more outragious people. And I like people with mohawks hence me saying I'd make an exception. And it is partially because of their creativity that I would choose them.

Exactly my point. You picked them because you can SEE what they do with hair and you want that for your own hair. But would you pick the hair dresser who always hid her hair under a hat? The one who never showed you how they played with their own hair?

Likewise, in some salons, I'm sure that the hairdresser with the mohawk would not get hired because of it (as it might frighten off the normal customers), or, contrariwise, someone with a conservative haircut might not get hired by a salon that was more outré and wanting cutters who demonstrated boldness.

Which is NOT to say that the mohawk hairdresser can't cut hair conservatively or the hairdresser with a conservative haircut can't cut hair outrageously. Just that, once again, the salon is selling a product to a certain group of people and it's hairdressers are the sales folk. They have to offer some indication that they can give the customers what they want because once a hairdresser starts cutting it's a little too late. This isn't a dress that can be refused because it doesn't fit or look right. Once the hair-do is done, it's done and the customer is stuck with it for a while. The only hint the customer has that a hairdresser will give them what they want is either seeing what the hairdresser did on another person, or seeing that hairdressers own hair and deducing the hairdresser's creative style from that.

 

[Fallenfromgrace]

I would do exactly the same if i were in the owner's shoes.

If she is not willing to display her hair in an environment which requires it, then she isn't going to sell the product she essentially provides and the business will suffer.

If she wants to cut hair that desperately she ought to get a name for herself privately amoung the muslim community and others that don't neccesarily mind, and not ruin someone else's business.

i think this girl is stupid if she thinks that these are reasonable grounds for legal action. She should be ashamed...suing someone for 'hurt feelings' over something so glaringly obvious that it will be innapropriate for the setting.

I really hope that the owner wins the case and has all her legal fees and loss of business/ earnings whatever losses she has incurred as a direct result, paid to her in full by Noah.

THAT will be justice and i dont think its unreasonable to ask for.

 

[Polarbear57]

Most Jobs I know have a dress code or some like this, so what???

 

[dr_mabeuse]

What's bad is that this could open the door to a surge in Muslim bartenders and and that would truly be tragic.

 

[rgraham666]

What's bad is that this could open the door to a surge in Muslim bartenders and and that would truly be tragic.

Noooooooooo!

 

[cloudy]

I respectfully apologize to Vermillion for the following naked and thoroughly undeserved THREADJACK on what was an interesting societal question... but the devil makes me ask....

//BEGIN THREADJACK//
Uhh Cloudy? I don't suppose you somehow transported yourself across time and space to appear before my eyes in a nightclub in the middle of Russia?
No? Hmm. Well, I had 5 or 6 beers at that point but she looked..... just like you do in my imagination.....

I did not speak to her. I did not want to ruin the moment. Instead I let my mind wander along the path of the curious racial stereotypes we carry with us that could result in such confusions....

Oh and she was strikingly beautiful.... much the same impression your words have left on me here.

The moment passed as the words.... "I have looked at cloudy from both sides now..." sang to my amused inner child.

Just had to tell you that.

//END THREAD JACK//

That made my day. Thank you.

 

[cahab]

I'm with cloudy on this one. If I walked in to a hairdressers I would automatically head for the person who has the nicest hair. Anyone with mussy or unseen hair would leave me unsure and I would probably have flashbacks of my mom cutting my hair and I would not let them within 50 feet of my hair.

Why would you think the person who has the best haircut is the best hairdresser? Think about it. Do you think they cut their own hair?

The best tactic is usually to head for the person with the worst haircut: they probably cut everyone else's.

 

[tickledkitty]

As for using a hairdresser whose hair is done in the way you like, wouldn't it be more logical to find out which hairdresser did that person's hair?

Nope. The hairdresser most likely styles her own hair every day. You look to that person for their sense of style. You almost have to connect with that person on a personal level so that they understand what you want, and how they look is a big part of that. It may be shallow, but too bad. That's the way it is.

Also, competition amongst hairdressers can be fierce. People pay big bucks to have their hair done to their liking and will stay with the same hairdresser for years. I've been with mine for 8 years now. We understand each other, and I wouldn't think if changing.

Sorry, but the chick with the scarf on her head wouldn't stand a chance. My hairdresser would eat her for dinner.