Relationship issues and Communications

[James G 5]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Relationship issues and Communications

Working through a total breakdown of communication is beyond the idea of this
thread, but even that assumes that both of the people involved are really willing
to listen and find common ground (and not just play act it).

I agree that writing things down is a great way to organize your thoughts, and
even to find where the common ground is. It's not clear what value you see that
makes it an effective tool for communication beyond that. At first glance it
appears that what you are describing is a crutch for people who are more focused
on winning arguments than {re}building a successful relationship. "Let me tell
you why I'm right, why you should see it my way, and why you're wrong" are all
ways to grind communication to a halt. You can't beat an opinion into someone
any easier by writing it down. Writing it done just gives the other person an
opportunity to ignore you without being confrontational about it.

Can you elaborate?

This is assuming there is still some grounds for communication and a desire to fix things
It's not a matter of organizing your thoughts, it's a way of presenting your feelings to the other person in a non-confrontational manner, and of trading ideas for how to address things

'Gwen' writes:
"When you tell me I never listen to you then shout me down when I try to talk, it makes me feel like you don't respect what I have to say. I will work on not interrupting you while you talk if you will try and give me equal time to speak."
'John' writes:
"When you constantly interrupt me, it makes me feel like you don't care what I say, your mind is already made up. I will work on moderating my temper and listening to you more respectfully."

That's a short example, about one problem.
It can go a lot longer.

Does that make more sense?

 

[pplwatching]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Relationship issues and Communications

That's a short example, about one problem.
It can go a lot longer.

Does that make more sense?

I see, but I don't understand. I thought you were talking about writing more elaborate essays. If saying something of that nature degrades into fights about old argument, then writing it down isn't going to solve anything.

 

[watergirl]

Yes!

In some relationships people do not have enough respect for each other to accept there is a problem when they don't feel it is a problem for them. That is a basic level of respect that is missing and they need to solve that first before specific problems.
Noor

I skimmed past this at first, then went back and picked it out.
Sometimes, I'm reluctant to face an issue with someone, because I don't want to seem like an overly sensitive whiny girl. "Oh, he doesn't mean anything by it, it's just little remarks..." But if it bothers me, he should at least know that, and whether or not he cares will tell me whether or not he's worth my time. Thank you Noor - between you & Sheath, I'm really getting it together lately!

My latest fuck buddy has a habit of saying incredibly aggravating things to me sometimes. Examples? "You know, you have really strong thighs, and when you lose the extra weight you're carrying around, you could be a dead lifter." "Your breasts are almost perfect... just a hair too big." "You know, for your height, you could really lose 50lbs, not just 40, to be at your ideal weight."

It's as if... suppose I took up a new hobby, baking, and he made a point of saying things like "Cookies are so much better with brown sugar than white." He says things to me as if they are scientific facts, but really, they're just his own very strong opinions.

I was annoyed by the remarks, but my ego isn't fragile enough to be damaged by this, just irked. And for a while, I just laughed it off, thinking that would be enough to discourage him - if I didn't let it bug me, he wouldn't get as much fun out of it, and maybe he'd quit. He didn't, and I got more and more irked, and my friends got tired of listening to me rant about it.

So after a good long smart talk with a very wise Litster, I got my nerve up and called him on being a garden variety jerk. I told him that I don't know if he's trying to be aggravating or motivating, but that it gets on my nerves, and I don't know how long I'll be interested in putting up with it. I let him work the conversation in that direction... he invited me over, I wasn't interested, and he said, "Ohh, you're not bored with me already, are you?" Bored wasn't the word, he wanted to know what was, and I stated my case.

He got off the phone with me pretty quickly after that. <smirk>

So I guess my recently learned lesson about communication is that even though there may not be any immediate resolution, I can take great satisfaction in things being out in the open.

About what Noor said... things are still in the early stages w/ me & fuckbuddyboy, so if he lacks the respect for me to knock it off with the smart ass comments, then he looses out on the sex. So do I, but I get to keep my self respect. I am working out & losing weight, but it's for me, not for him, and praise would get him further than hassling me about it, if he wants to speed up the process.

I apologize for the somewhat tangential rant.

 

[CelticFrog]

I don't really think your rant was all that tangential.

And it had some incredibly good points, whether or not you saw them.

I think everybody has that sort of person in their life. Somewhere. For me, it's my grandfather. And a few other people, but he REALLY pops into my head. It's always, "You know, I lost weight by not eating everything on my plate."
"All of you girls (my aunts and female cousins) could really use some exercise to help you lose some weight"

I know he's worried. My grandmother has congenital heart failure (if you have good vibes, please send them this way) and has been in and out of the hospital countless times in the last year. Now Grandpa is struggling with guilt because he thinks if he would have kept her away from 'bad' food (fat on steaks, especially... they own a meat packing plant) in the last 65 years of their marriage, she wouldn't be having problems.

But the point you made about strong opinions being stated as if they're fact really hit home. (Now that I'm done with my own tangential rant)

Those little things can be really hurtful.

I know.

And I'm thinking more on this. Will write more when I'm a little less affected by your post. Hit me powerfully.

Ang

 

[James G 5]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Relationship issues and Communications

I see, but I don't understand. I thought you were talking about writing more elaborate essays. If saying something of that nature degrades into fights about old argument, then writing it down isn't going to solve anything.

Essays aren't going to do any good
the point of this is to address thingw without veering off in to fights & old arguments

 

[warrior queen]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Relationship issues and Communications

Essays aren't going to do any good
the point of this is to address thingw without veering off in to fights & old arguments

the trouble is, that quite often one person will keep referring back to 'past' hurts they feel are still valid in their lives, and then whatever the discussion is, they'll bring up each and every one of them.

*sigh* how well i know this.

if people addressed these things as they come up and deal with issues before they become niggling irritations that they can't resolve, communication would actually work the way it's supposed to.

sadly though, communication skills are extremely hard to learn, and many, many people think they're good communicators anyway, and therefore don't make the effort to improve.

and that's when you end up like me - feeling [almost] invalidated as a person.

 

[James G 5]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Relationship issues and Communications

the trouble is, that quite often one person will keep referring back to 'past' hurts they feel are still valid in their lives, and then whatever the discussion is, they'll bring up each and every one of them.

*sigh* how well i know this.

if people addressed these things as they come up and deal with issues before they become niggling irritations that they can't resolve, communication would actually work the way it's supposed to.

sadly though, communication skills are extremely hard to learn, and many, many people think they're good communicators anyway, and therefore don't make the effort to improve.

and that's when you end up like me - feeling [almost] invalidated as a person.

Agreed, they should be addressed as they come up
Unfortunately they're not
The writing idea is intended to allow people to focus on a pertinent current problem in a non-confrontatioal way without going in to past issues

 

[warrior queen]

i also think much of the communication breakdown can be attributed to not using the language in the correct way.
example:
instead of "i hate it when..."
use "when you do ....... , i feel......"
- or something similar.

if more people learnt to talk to others in a less threatening or more validating way, then a whole load of communication breakdowns could be avoided.

and this applies equally to any written communication such as email etc.
write it or say it the wrong way, and it becomes threatening.
put it down the right way, and it becomes a constructive base to work from.

 

[James G 5]

i also think much of the communication breakdown can be attributed to not using the language in the correct way.
example:
instead of "i hate it when..."
use "when you do ....... , i feel......"
- or something similar.

if more people learnt to talk to others in a less threatening or more validating way, then a whole load of communication breakdowns could be avoided.

and this applies equally to any written communication such as email etc.
write it or say it the wrong way, and it becomes threatening.
put it down the right way, and it becomes a constructive base to work from.

Agreed, more good reason to encourage good grammar & writing

 

[DarkMuse]

My secret to communication: my SO is the communicator.

After breaking up with my ex (who would argue with me if I told him the sky was blue, just for the sake of arguing), I'm VERY leery of bringing up a topic that could POSSIBLY start an argument, and I'm always on the defensive during a conversation.

Luckily my SO is VERY communication-oriented. He can also read me VERY well...

For example:

I initiated sex, he wasn't totally into it (I didn't realize it at the time, but he was falling asleep just before I initiated it), but got into it, and made a wise-crack about "Being able to go to sleep now" after the sex was over (it was a joke, but it really bothered me). He apologized and admitted it was in bad taste, and that the sex is great--but he was falling asleep, and he thought that I knew that, and that he thought I would find the comment amusing based on that assumption.

He also makes sure I know that his disinterest in sex is NOT me...he just isn't a horn-dog (like I am). He makes sure to communicate that.

Pretty much, he's always the communicator. He's more of a chick than I am. I can't communicate my feelings very well (upbringing, my ex, etc. Any feelings I expressed were always used as a weakness), but do so in writing. If I REALLY want to let him know I'm thinking about him, I send him a card in the mail (he enjoys that). But yeah, he's the one who opens communication. We've had one argument since we got together 8 months ago (pretty good, I think), and after that we agreed to talk about whatever was bothering us (although my SO is very intuitive and knows when something is bothering me without me even hinting at it).

Anyhow, that's my two cents. Probably doesn't help much.

This may, though: The openness scares the shit out of me! Seriously, I've never had such an honest and open relationship--one where we COMMUNICATE and not just talk vapidly or ignore one another. And I see my SO way less than my ex.