Reflections on Gentleman Doms

[base10]

It is so amazingly and deeply profound to experience this kind of sensation - i think in part because it is a bit socially taboo

Both of these reasons are why I find the intensity of D/s and bdsm so hot and addicting.

 

[Mindfondler]

Both of these reasons are why I find the intensity of D/s and bdsm so hot and addicting.

I agree! However, it's also demanding, for the reasons that I and others explained a few posts ago. Perhaps I'm biased, but I believe that the Dom has much more work to do in the relationship, as the one who is responsible for conceiving each scene, executing it, and taking care of the sub throughout and afterwards. That's not a complaint, though, as the rush of fulfilment for a Dom when things go right is extremely gratifying.
.

 

[midwestyankee]

I agree! However, it's also demanding, for the reasons that I and others explained a few posts ago. Perhaps I'm biased, but I believe that the Dom has much more work to do in the relationship, as the one who is responsible for conceiving each scene, executing it, and taking care of the sub throughout and afterwards. That's not a complaint, though, as the rush of fulfilment for a Dom when things go right is extremely gratifying.
.

I think you are definitely showing a bias here, one that over-values the work of men versus the efforts of women. Assuming a heterosexual relationship, each partner contributes equally. Perhaps another way to look at this is that it's a shame that you see your contribution as work.

 

[Mindfondler]

I think you are definitely showing a bias here, one that over-values the work of men versus the efforts of women. Assuming a heterosexual relationship, each partner contributes equally. Perhaps another way to look at this is that it's a shame that you see your contribution as work.

Hmm... aren't you in turn showing a bias by assuming that the Dom is a man? Obviously, that's true in my case, but I was making a point about the roles rather than the genders.

I think also that you're reading my use of the word "work" as meaning an unwelcome burden. I didn't intend it that way. It's a role that I'm happy to take, but it's still work, in the sense of requiring ongoing effort.
.

 

[midwestyankee]

Hmm... aren't you in turn showing a bias by assuming that the Dom is a man? Obviously, that's true in my case, but I was making a point about the roles rather than the genders.

I think also that you're reading my use of the word "work" as meaning an welcome burden. I didn't mean it that way. It's a burden that I'm happy to take, but it's still work, in the sense of requiring effort.
.

Yes, it's quite plainly stated in my post that I was assuming a heterosexual relationship. If you didn't mean what you clearly wrote, then I suggest you start writing what you actually mean.

 

[Mindfondler]

Yes, it's quite plainly stated in my post that I was assuming a heterosexual relationship. If you didn't mean what you clearly wrote, then I suggest you start writing what you actually mean.

It's possible to have a heterosexual relationship in which the Dom is female and the sub is male.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Is it just me being dense?
.

 

[midwestyankee]

It's possible to have a heterosexual relationship in which the Dom is female and the sub is male.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Is it just me being dense?
.

Of course it is, but that's not your case so I presumed that you were writing largely from your own point of view. If you weren't basing your post mostly on your own experience then that part of my post was perhaps mistaken. However, the larger point is that your post rather over-valued the effort of one party over the other in a way that was clearly biased so as to heighten the importance of the dominant in a relationship in a way that doesn't reflect my experience at all. But then I've had only partners and not playthings, so my experience might differ from that of others.

 

[Mindfondler]

Of course it is, but that's not your case so I presumed that you were writing largely from your own point of view. If you weren't basing your post mostly on your own experience then that part of my post was perhaps mistaken. However, the larger point is that your post rather over-valued the effort of one party over the other in a way that was clearly biased so as to heighten the importance of the dominant in a relationship in a way that doesn't reflect my experience at all. But then I've had only partners and not playthings, so my experience might differ from that of others.

I can only write from my own experience, and I think it's clear from my original posting that I was only expressing my own position and accepting that I could easily be wrong about the general case. I certainly take into account that your own experience is different. However, I don't believe that I was overreaching myself in expressing my own belief and portraying it as such.

I'm going to back away now because I don't believe that this thread and those reading it will benefit from us pursuing an argument over this.
.

 

[barefootgirl69]

I'm confused. I'm not sure I understand what exactly this Midwestyankee (hoping I got the name correct) is saying.

The relationship between a Dom and his Sub (Yes, I'm female so this is my bias) is such that the Dom does put the effort into planning the scene, executing the scene, and then the aftercare. That is no way undervalues the sub...it simply is the way it is.

What's the problem you are having with this?

 

[DarkSimian]

I'm confused. I'm not sure I understand what exactly this Midwestyankee (hoping I got the name correct) is saying.

The relationship between a Dom and his Sub (Yes, I'm female so this is my bias) is such that the Dom does put the effort into planning the scene, executing the scene, and then the aftercare. That is no way undervalues the sub...it simply is the way it is.

What's the problem you are having with this?

*Again, butting in where I don't belong....*

As someone on the outside, looking in, I can certainly see the points that MF and BFG are trying to make. The Dom (of whatever sex) has a certain responsibility to the Sub (of whatever sex), and that this responsibility may often be overlooked by the Sub, or others outside the relationship. While the Dom has to care for the well being of the Sub, it should also be the Sub, caring for the well being of the Dom.

or am I completely misreading this? maybe celibacy IS the answer...

 

[midwestyankee]

Let me try this one more time. Perhaps I'm the one who hasn't been communicating clearly.

To suggest that the dominant partner does much, much more work in the relationship than the submissive partner is simply wrong. And, as Mindfondler had suggested that perhaps he was biased in saying so, I pointed out that I agreed with that assessment. It's very much a biased statement, one that exaggerates the value of the contribution of the dominant (male, in his case) over that of the submissive (female, in his case) in the very same way that many misogynists over-value everything done by men as contrasted with things done by women. To explain myself further, relationships include far more than setting up and executing kinky-sexy-fun-time scenes and suggesting that preparing and executing those scenes is the greater amount of work that's done in a relationship is indeed wrong and biased.

 

[barefootgirl69]

Let me try this one more time. Perhaps I'm the one who hasn't been communicating clearly.

To suggest that the dominant partner does much, much more work in the relationship than the submissive partner is simply wrong. And, as Mindfondler had suggested that perhaps he was biased in saying so, I pointed out that I agreed with that assessment. It's very much a biased statement, one that exaggerates the value of the contribution of the dominant (male, in his case) over that of the submissive (female, in his case) in the very same way that many misogynists over-value everything done by men as contrasted with things done by women. To explain myself further, relationships include far more than setting up and executing kinky-sexy-fun-time scenes and suggesting that preparing and executing those scenes is the greater amount of work that's done in a relationship is indeed wrong and biased.

But that's not what he was saying at all. The discussion had turned from the needs of a sub in aftercare to the needs that a Dom also has in aftercare. That the effort he put in also drains him. I think you are reading it out of context.

I posted in Daddy's Little Girl that there is a myth that in Dominance and submission is that one partner has to be weak. The truth is that the best D/s relationships strengthen both.

That got us started here, when it was mentioned, on how both need each other, and both need aftercare.

Knowing Mindfondler, he always puts people before himself, and is a very gentle man.

 

[midwestyankee]

But that's not what he was saying at all. The discussion had turned from the needs of a sub in aftercare to the needs that a Dom also has in aftercare. That the effort he put in also drains him. I think you are reading it out of context.

I posted in Daddy's Little Girl that there is a myth that in Dominance and submission is that one partner has to be weak. The truth is that the best D/s relationships strengthen both.

That got us started here, when it was mentioned, on how both need each other, and both need aftercare.

Knowing Mindfondler, he always puts people before himself, and is a very gentle man.

I can only go by what he said, which was "I believe that the Dom has much more work to do in the relationship" (emphasis added). In my view and in my experience, the relationship work includes far more than play times and thus the submissive does plenty of work in the relationship that Mindfondler was ignoring. It's not rocket science: unless one's D/s relationship exists only in the scenes and does not include any other part of the two partners' lives then Mindfondler was grossly overstating the amount of work the dominant does within the relationship and ignoring the work done by the submissive.

 

[Mindfondler]

I can only go by what he said, which was "I believe that the Dom has much more work to do in the relationship" (emphasis added). In my view and in my experience, the relationship work includes far more than play times and thus the submissive does plenty of work in the relationship that Mindfondler was ignoring. It's not rocket science: unless one's D/s relationship exists only in the scenes and does not include any other part of the two partners' lives then Mindfondler was grossly overstating the amount of work the dominant does within the relationship and ignoring the work done by the submissive.

Thank you! That's the situation as applies to me at the moment. When I wrote "relationship", I was meaning the D/s aspect of my relationship, rather than the relationship as a whole.

I might have chosen my words more carefully given unlimited time to consider my posting, but I don't believe that I deserved chewing out and seemingly being labelled as mysogynistic for that. Still, I'm realistic that I'm not going to get on with everyone.

I'm glad that it's been possible to resolve this misunderstanding of the position that I was attempting to state. At least, I hope that's true now, and that this thread can now move on.
.

 

[cascadiabound]

I posted in Daddy's Little Girl that there is a myth that in Dominance and submission is that one partner has to be weak. The truth is that the best D/s relationships strengthen both.

That got us started here, when it was mentioned, on how both need each other, and both need aftercare.

Here is the modified quoted that BFG posted in the Daddy's lg thread yesterday with my suggested alternative language in bold.

The most absurb myth about Dominance and submission
is that one partner has to be weak.

The best D/s relationships strengthen you both.


I do not believe that Mindfondler and MWY have a fundamental disagreement. I think one was talking about issues around the management and aftercare relating to a scene and one was talking about the larger context of a full relationship.
I think I can say with some confidence that neither of them views their play partners/ subs as toys.

In any D/s relationship there is always going to be give and take and both need to contribute for it to be workable. One person is not doing all of the "work" of the relationship ~ this is death to any dyad.

I would suggest that the last sentence of the quote is the most important one.

The best D/s relationships strengthen you both.​

 

[barefootgirl69]

Here is the modified quoted that BFG posted in the Daddy's lg thread yesterday with my suggested alternative language in bold.

The most absurb myth about Dominance and submission
is that one partner has to be weak.

The best D/s relationships strengthen you both.


I do not believe that Mindfondler and MWY have a fundamental disagreement. I think one was talking about issues around the management and aftercare relating to a scene and one was talking about the larger context of a full relationship.
I think I can say with some confidence that neither of them views their play partners/ subs as toys.

In any D/s relationship there is always going to be give and take and both need to contribute for it to be workable. One person is not doing all of the "work" of the relationship ~ this is death to any dyad.

I would suggest that the last sentence of the quote is the most important one.

The best D/s relationships strengthen you both.​

Thank you, cb!

 

[DaddyAsh]

At the risk of my POV being dismissed again. Gender roles have nothing to do with who is the Dom and who is the sub. The Dom is the entertainer, his/her whole existence should be pleasing, and improving his sub. Scenes are little nuggets of love, expressed through kink and fetish. I have never known a sub who was not one of the best at what they do. I know a male sub, female Dom, couple, by Day he is one of the most decorated Firefighters in the state of Florida, She manages a Victoria's Secret. At home he is her puppy, not my kink, but it works for them. I have never known a weak willed sub, they just bend so to speak, to the Dom will, so that will becomes one, like a condom on a penis, being thrust against reality. I guess what it boils down to is diffrent strokes for different folks.

 

[cascadiabound]

At the risk of my POV being dismissed again. Gender roles have nothing to do with who is the Dom and who is the sub. The Dom is the entertainer, his/her whole existence should be pleasing, and improving his sub. Scenes are little nuggets of love, expressed through kink and fetish. I have never known a sub who was not one of the best at what they do. I know a male sub, female Dom, couple, by Day he is one of the most decorated Firefighters in the state of Florida, She manages a Victoria's Secret. At home he is her puppy, not my kink, but it works for them. I have never known a weak willed sub, they just bend so to speak, to the Dom will, so that will becomes one, like a condom on a penis, being thrust against reality. I guess what it boils down to is diffrent strokes for different folks.

I appreciate your POV Daddy Ash.

I do not want anyone to feel that there POV is incorrect here. Everyone should be able to speak for themselves.

I would like to add another POV here though.

I think you, Daddy Ash, are describing what I would call a "service" Top. A Dom who serves and pleases his sub.

In my RL D/s relationship, generally we work by me being a "service" bottom. He is my Dom and I please him, by serving him. Sometimes that means that I get my needs met just the way he knows I like it, but more often it means that He gets his needs met just the way he wants regardless of of mine.
This is our D/s dynamic. It does not make us wrong. Just a different twist on it.

 

[base10]

In my RL D/s relationship, generally we work by me being a "service" bottom. He is my Dom and I please him, by serving him. Sometimes that means that I get my needs met just the way he knows I like it, but more often it means that He gets his needs met just the way he wants regardless of of mine.
This is our D/s dynamic. It does not make us wrong. Just a different twist on it.

I very much subscribe to the idea that if it works for both partners, and it's what they both want it's correct. Who are we to tell two happy people what they are going is wrong.

 

[Bookishleigh]

I have to admit I always scoffed the idea of a D/s relationship - but last weekend someone decided to show me the error of my ways. The bruises are barely visible still...and that makes me a little sad.

 

[barefootgirl69]

I have to admit I always scoffed the idea of a D/s relationship - but last weekend someone decided to show me the error of my ways. The bruises are barely visible still...and that makes me a little sad.

Sometimes all it takes is the right man (in our case) to bring out something in us that's been afraid or been buried for so long.

 

[Bookishleigh]

Sometimes all it takes is the right man (in our case) to bring out something in us that's been afraid or been buried for so long.

Well, sadly it was a one and done thing likely, with him at least - I mean on paper there is no real attraction. Lol - I cannot even say his name without giggling to myself and he's not much taller than I am (and I'm 5'2").

But maybe one day again....

 

[midwestyankee]

Thank you! That's the situation as applies to me at the moment. When I wrote "relationship", I was meaning the D/s aspect of my relationship, rather than the relationship as a whole.

I might have chosen my words more carefully given unlimited time to consider my posting, but I don't believe that I deserved chewing out and seemingly being labelled as mysogynistic for that. Still, I'm realistic that I'm not going to get on with everyone.

I'm glad that it's been possible to resolve this misunderstanding of the position that I was attempting to state. At least, I hope that's true now, and that this thread can now move on.
.

You did fine. I just got a hair across my ass at the wrong moment and seized on a minor inconsistency in your post. I have become quite touch of late regarding the "Me Tarzan, you Jane" nature of some discourse on relationships. You're a good guy and I sometimes play the curmudgeon card a tad forcefully.

 

[DaddyAsh]

Well, sadly it was a one and done thing likely, with him at least - I mean on paper there is no real attraction. Lol - I cannot even say his name without giggling to myself and he's not much taller than I am (and I'm 5'2").

But maybe one day again....

5'2" we call that fun sized

 

[cascadiabound]

http://66.media.tumblr.com/8ebeaae1751ef3bd80908b7e7438687e/tumblr_mx0gsnowSM1s91gioo1_500.jpg

A gentleman's reference library. Maybe this will help?