Reflections on Gentleman Doms

[Mindfondler]

Gentlemen? Truly nothing to add here?
Indulge me on my bday weekend.
Surely someone has something to add to this thread.

Slinger? Dessentes? subtleDom? Callmetim? Bueller???

I'll have a try! I'd better supply some caveats first, though:

• By replying in this thread, I'm not asserting that I'm either a gentleman or a complete (e.g. "one twue") Dom
• This is a sample of one: my own personal take on Dominance and submission
• I'm not claiming my view to be "right" for anyone other than myself

I shouldn't need to say any of those things but, judging from some of the earlier responses in this thread, it appears that I do.

Question for the consideration of the Doms in the room:

How did you come to understand yourself as a Dom? Was this a slow process or a thunderclap? Did you just realize or did you have a relationship with a submissive who helped you "discover" your nature?

It was an extremely slow process for me, and not one that I consciously understood until last year.

During my adolescence, I started to fantasise about "helping" girls by... well... restraining them and then doing things to them. It didn't make any sense to me because I had no desire to carry that out in real life -- the notion horrified me and yet continued to fascinate me. The only mitigation was my sense that the girls were actually enjoying what I was doing even though they were trying to pretend otherwise. It was as if I were liberating them by peeling away a false external veneer – a mask of superficial respectability – and accessing their true expressive selves underneath. Even so, I parked away those types of fantasies as dangerous and egocentric delusions.

In my early adulthood, I realised that there was some validity to my fantasy – at least for certain types of people. Films like 9½ Weeks showed me a D/s dynamic in action, although my take from that film was that it was a dysfunctional one. I didn't identify with those characters, whom I regarded as "broken" and unsuitable role models for me. Still, though, my fantasies continued. I started to wonder if I was "broken" too. I had been brought up to be considerate and caring, so I felt like a fraud for acting that way externally yet secretly harbouring these troublesome desires.

Soon after getting married, I did a few tentative experiments on my wife, to see whether she might share some of my hidden desires. The results were indeterminate. I didn't push any further, for fear of imposing something on my wife that she didn't really want but might try to accommodate purely to keep me happy. I didn't want to risk asking my wife directly because, overall, she didn't seem like "that sort of person" (i.e. warped and horrible underneath in the way that I saw myself).

Last year, having turned fifty and feeling the need finally to "come clean", I told my wife about my fantasies and my desire to explore them in reality. To my relief and delight, she wasn't horrified at all, but expressed curiosity and enthusiasm. We subsequently launched ourselves with gusto into our local kink community, and we haven't looked back since. We're now doing our best to make up for all of the opportunities that we missed over the previous decades!

Anyone still reading? Bueller? Bueller? Still, I think I answered the question.

Dominant Traits - Submission is Earned Not Ordered

[--snipped for brevity--]

I like that a great deal! It captures my feelings extremely well. For example, I don't demand to be called "Sir"; indeed, I don't wish to be addressed that way unless I've earned that privilege in a submissive's mind. That way, every time that I do hear it is a sweet and fulfilling moment.
.

 

[FelicityJohns]

I'll have a try! I'd better supply some caveats first, though:

• By replying in this thread, I'm not asserting that I'm either a gentleman or a complete (e.g. "one twue") Dom
• This is a sample of one: my own personal take on Dominance and submission
• I'm not claiming my view to be "right" for anyone other than myself

I shouldn't need to say any of those things but, judging from some of the earlier responses in this thread, it appears that I do.


It was an extremely slow process for me, and not one that I consciously understood until last year.

During my adolescence, I started to fantasise about "helping" girls by... well... restraining them and then doing things to them. It didn't make any sense to me because I had no desire to carry that out in real life -- the notion horrified me and yet continued to fascinate me. The only mitigation was my sense that the girls were actually enjoying what I was doing even though they were trying to pretend otherwise. It was as if I were liberating them by peeling away a false external veneer – a mask of superficial respectability – and accessing their true expressive selves underneath. Even so, I parked away those types of fantasies as dangerous and egocentric delusions.

In my early adulthood, I realised that there was some validity to my fantasy – at least for certain types of people. Films like 9½ Weeks showed me a D/s dynamic in action, although my take from that film was that it was a dysfunctional one. I didn't identify with those characters, whom I regarded as "broken" and unsuitable role models for me. Still, though, my fantasies continued. I started to wonder if I was "broken" too. I had been brought up to be considerate and caring, so I felt like a fraud for acting that way externally yet secretly harbouring these troublesome desires.

Soon after getting married, I did a few tentative experiments on my wife, to see whether she might share some of my hidden desires. The results were indeterminate. I didn't push any further, for fear of imposing something on my wife that she didn't really want but might try to accommodate purely to keep me happy. I didn't want to risk asking my wife directly because, overall, she didn't seem like "that sort of person" (i.e. warped and horrible underneath in the way that I saw myself).

Last year, having turned fifty and feeling the need finally to "come clean", I told my wife about my fantasies and my desire to explore them in reality. To my relief and delight, she wasn't horrified at all, but expressed curiosity and enthusiasm. We subsequently launched ourselves with gusto into our local kink community, and we haven't looked back since. We're now doing our best to make up for all of the opportunities that we missed over the previous decades!

Anyone still reading? Bueller? Bueller? Still, I think I answered the question.


I like that a great deal! It captures my feelings extremely well. For example, I don't demand to be called "Sir"; indeed, I don't wish to be addressed that way unless I've earned that privilege in a submissive's mind. That way, every time that I do hear it is a sweet and fulfilling moment.
.

It is so good to hear of a marriage strong enough to not only withstand these changes, but to grow through and with them. Kudos to you and the missus!

I'm especailly struck by the way you saw yourself (as sick, or wrong, egocentric, etc) Have those feelings changed for you? It sounds as though you've accepted and embraced it all as just part and parcel of what looks to me to be a pretty awesome package

 

[FelicityJohns]

So I guess what I would consider my "thing" as far as this goes is a lot more about serving my partner's needs as opposed to mine. I know that's kind of the opposite of what a lot of people consider a "dom" to be but the way I discovered I was a little on the dom side is when the first person I was ever with told me she liked to be held down, liked it a little bit rough, and wanted to be "taken" and "used." Being pretty young at the time I don't think I quite got what that meant but I took to it pretty fast. As in I decide what positions we're going to do and when, I control the pace, that kind of thing. I had a conversation with some people here recently about this too but I've also had a number of experiences with what I think they call "clothed male naked female" or "CMNF" as I've heard it referred to as here. I think that's part of it too. There's definitely a power dynamic there.

Hi, UB,

What you say here about 'serving' being opposite of 'Dom' behavior.

This is my unique perspective, and does not encompass the whole of the lifestyle. But I've always thought of Doms as needing to serve. They want to protect, care for. They need to make their sub not just cum, not just feel intense pleasure, but to take them to a whole different place in their minds. I see this as serving, even while it can be called egocentric... I think we're all egocentric to a degree though.

A Dom works hard to make his sub happy. Their happiness is his.

A sub works hard to make her Dom happy. Their happiness is hers.

When it works, I believe this is the basis of all D/s relationships. It isn't about WHAT you do. It's about caring enough about another to desire to do anything to fulfill that person. Add rope, we call it BDSM. Take the rope away, we call it a loving relationship.

 

[Mindfondler]

It is so good to hear of a marriage strong enough to not only withstand these changes, but to grow through and with them. Kudos to you and the missus!

Thank you!

Whilst it has helped us to have a strong relationship, nothing could have prepared us for the turmoil of shifting our understandings of each other and ourselves. It's a process that's still ongoing for both of us, and it may never end (there's always something new for us to learn!).

I'm especailly struck by the way you saw yourself (as sick, or wrong, egocentric, etc) Have those feelings changed for you? It sounds as though you've accepted and embraced it all as just part and parcel of what looks to me to be a pretty awesome package

Yes. I'm much more comfortable about myself now. I've accepted the way that I am and I'm no longer looking for excuses for it. The important change for me has been to find people who share my kink (on either side of the slash) and for me to be able to open up to them without fear of judgement. The local community has been marvellous for that, both for me and my wife.

I still don't believe that I'm readily identifiable as a Dom. The difference is that whereas before I was hiding my true nature, now I'm being myself. I'd probably fail any "One Twue Dom" tests as I don't prance and throw my weight around. As I explained here, I don't tend to push myself onto people, but rather I set out my stall and let them be pulled in if they're interested in what I can offer.

I've written a lot more about my journey in my writings on Fetlife (see link in my signature). You won't be able to read them there without a Fetlife account, though. I'm not keen to publish them publicly on Lit (although many of my thoughts in them are scattered across my Lit postings), but I'd be prepared to cut and paste extracts into a PM if asked nicely.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I've started a gentle search for a local platonic sub, as we've discovered that my wife isn't really wired as a sub, even though she enjoys kinky sensual play with me. I'm not in a rush – it's definitely a case of waiting for the right person! I imagine that's most likely to evolve from connections that I'm making over time at munches and other local events. Once again, I've posted more details on Fetlife so that those who know me there are aware and can offer any suggestions.
.

 

[DarkSimian]

I'm going to dip my pinkie toe in this thread, so please bear with me:

Having no direct experience with the BDSM lifestyle, I admit I am curious. And after reading many of the comments in here, the Daddy's Girl thread, and others, I find that I do share/ admire many of the traits of a Dom: the protectiveness, the loyalty, the commitment to another...

but, after some experiences online recently, and upon further reflection, I know that the lifestyle is not for me, either as a Dom, Sub, Daddy, etc.

So while I do not judge those that live the life, do not judge me for not embracing it ....

Thank you, DS

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

The 'lifestyle' word always puts be off a little.

What is the difference between a lifestyle and just getting on with a relationship that has aspects of this with which you empathise?

...Since we started exploring this we have acknowledged this and used some words as 'communication short cuts' but I think they can equally be communication barriers....

Yes.

Thank you, beautiful Elle.


And thank you to everyone else who is helping to keep this thread alive, for the benefit of the inexperienced and curious.

 

[DaddyAsh]

The 'lifestyle' word always puts be off a little.

What is the difference between a lifestyle and just getting on with a relationship that has aspects of this with which you empathise?

G does not use the word 'Dom' and I do not use the word 'sub'. Partly because apart from here, we are not in a 'lifestyle' to use them with any one . ( but not wholly the reason) But he is a gentleman, through and through. Since we started exploring this we have acknowledged this and used some words as 'communication short cuts' but I think they can equally be communication barriers. For me 'lifestyle' is one of those. I am not really sure how it is applied in for example Dark simian's post .

Okay, deep breath, Professor Ash at the podium. There is a disconect here that need to be fixed... And I will use my Self and my little as an exsample. We have a lifestyle, but we are not Lifestyle. Confused yet. Okay yes we have technically a D/s type of relationship, but we are not that way 24/7 we have scenes, that can break out at anytime yes, but does my little go to work, yes, would I ruin her chances at improvement at he work, no. Do we disagree day to day she is a little bit country, I am a lot a bit rock and roll, but we talk, and air out our problems. As I have said in other posts for the moment we are stuck in a yellow... You do not have to be in scene to use your colors, and it is a great way to get someone to realize you are unhappy with something... That said both parties must want to communicate with each, and be willing to compromise on just about anything.

I hope this helps....

Ash

Edit

We refer to each other by our titles 24/7 in our out of Scene. I find we talk more to each other, than I have in my Vanilla marriage that has led to divorce. My wife wants nothing to do with the D/s scene in anyway, sadly, communications is important in any relationship, and that comunication has to be a two way street.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Mindfondler]

The 'lifestyle' word always puts be off a little.

I agree! To me, it brings unwanted connotations of pretentiousness and exclusivity. From what I've learnt over the last year about the general absence of those traits within the BDSM community, I'd now reserve the word for use only in the context of a 24/7 lifestyle.
.

 

[Mindfondler]

For those who are confused by BDSM jargon such as Dom, sub, top and bottom, I recommend this short writing by Stella_Omega, which I was pointed towards early in my explorations. I still refer back to it periodically:

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=42017419&postcount=148

Obviously, the usual caveats apply: it's just one person's view (although I find it persuasive) and the only "right" answers are the ones that enhance one's individual relationship.
.

 

[DarkSimian]

For those who are confused by BDSM jargon such as Dom, sub, top and bottom, I recommend this short writing by Stella_Omega, which I was pointed towards early in my explorations. I still refer back to it periodically:

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=42017419&postcount=148

Obviously, the usual caveats apply: it's just one person's view (although I find it persuasive) and the only "right" answers are the ones that enhance one's individual relationship.
.

and this is why I have had so much difficulty with understanding "the Lifestyle". Because it's like trying to describe 'white' to a blind man; without a common frame of reference, what is white to you might be totally different to someone else. And because there are so many 'shades' of white, what might be 'antique' to you, might be 'eggshell' to me. It's all so confusing

 

[GiggLeGasm]

I find that I do share/ admire many of the traits of a Dom: the protectiveness, the loyalty, the commitment to another...


So while I do not judge those that live the life, do not judge me for not embracing it ....

Thank you, DS

and this is why I have had so much difficulty with understanding "the Lifestyle". Because it's like trying to describe 'white' to a blind man; without a common frame of reference, what is white to you might be totally different to someone else. And because there are so many 'shades' of white, what might be 'antique' to you, might be 'eggshell' to me. It's all so confusing

I often sit silently because I don't believe that many of the traits associated with D/s (by your description) are exclusive to a D/s relationship. Shouldn't we all trying to be protective, loyal, and committed? There is a glimpse of traditional roles that is described that is fading and, in that way, I can see how people can make the connection.
It sounds to me as if you probably seek a relationship that would allow you to feel masculine, but perhaps not on such a defined stage.

 

[cascadiabound]

http://67.media.tumblr.com/bd674f4345a6297c52902180abcf3bc4/tumblr_mwf83tTKwx1t1353ho1_500.jpg

 

[Mindfondler]

http://67.media.tumblr.com/bd674f4345a6297c52902180abcf3bc4/tumblr_mwf83tTKwx1t1353ho1_500.jpg

Yay! I love hugs.

It is an important point, though. Doms sometimes need reassurance that they're doing the right things for their subs. I guess that isn't true for a so-called "real" Dom who is 100% confident about everything that they do. The rest of us mortals, though, want a two-way relationship with a sharing of needs. Verbal communication isn't always reliable and telepathy hasn't been invented yet, so regular "checking in" in other ways is still necessary. I find hugs to be a rather nice way of expressing validation, comfort and acceptance -- whether in a platonic or a sexual relationship.
.

 

[barefootgirl69]

Yay! I love hugs.

It is an important point, though. Doms sometimes need reassurance that they're doing the right things for their subs. I guess that isn't true for a so-called "real" Dom who is 100% confident about everything that they do. The rest of us mortals, though, want a two-way relationship with a sharing of needs. Verbal communication isn't always reliable and telepathy hasn't been invented yet, so regular "checking in" in other ways is still necessary. I find hugs to be a rather nice way of expressing validation, comfort and acceptance -- whether in a platonic or a sexual relationship.
.

*hugs* You know how I feel about you!

 

[FelicityJohns]

Yay! I love hugs.

It is an important point, though. Doms sometimes need reassurance that they're doing the right things for their subs. I guess that isn't true for a so-called "real" Dom who is 100% confident about everything that they do. The rest of us mortals, though, want a two-way relationship with a sharing of needs. Verbal communication isn't always reliable and telepathy hasn't been invented yet, so regular "checking in" in other ways is still necessary. I find hugs to be a rather nice way of expressing validation, comfort and acceptance -- whether in a platonic or a sexual relationship.
.

This is such a great point. Though I don't know about the 'real Dom' thing... people are so fluid. And a Dom isn't a mind-reader, like you say. I'd have a hard time trusting myself with someone who didn't let down his guard and express his needs to me, as well. I am honored when he shares with me that he's had a difficult day, or when he comes to me and expresses a need for my comfort and ear. It is difficult for some of us to be that vulnerable, and it's part of sharing oneself fully, no matter who you are or what your dynamic.

Sending out weekend hugs to all you wonderful people

 

[Mindfondler]

This is such a great point. Though I don't know about the 'real Dom' thing... people are so fluid. And a Dom isn't a mind-reader, like you say. I'd have a hard time trusting myself with someone who didn't let down his guard and express his needs to me, as well. I am honored when he shares with me that he's had a difficult day, or when he comes to me and expresses a need for my comfort and ear. It is difficult for some of us to be that vulnerable, and it's part of sharing oneself fully, no matter who you are or what your dynamic.

I think it takes a strong person to be that vulnerable. I haven't yet met a real-life sub who doesn't possess that inner strength. To me, the idea that a sub is a "doormat" is a total misapprehension.

Sending out weekend hugs to all you wonderful people

Cheers!

*hugs* You know how I feel about you!

Aww... thanks! *hugs back*

Anyone else wanna give me a hug?
.

 

[cascadiabound]

I think it takes a strong person to be that vulnerable. I haven't yet met a real-life sub who doesn't possess that inner strength. To me, the idea that a sub is a "doormat" is a total misapprehension.


Cheers!


Aww... thanks! *hugs back*

Anyone else wanna give me a hug?
.

Me me me!!!! {{{{{Hugs}}}}}

And I am quite sure when you said "real Dom" that your tongue was firmly in your cheek (yes?) as in "twue Dom" the fantasy idea some pyls occasionally have of Doms and that some PYLs occasionally try to hold themselves to.

This is reminding me of the quote that BFG found on a tumblr this week about how D/s relationships are partnerships, neither one being the "strong" one, but two sides of the same coin who cannot be without the other.

We are all human..our Doms need comfort, need advice, need us (their pyls) to help them be the best they can be just as we need them for all of those same things.

I know that in those moments after he spanks me and he is giving me aftercare... he needs care too. Reassurance that I am okay and love him. He often specifically asks me to hug him after...so he can feel me holding him and loving him after he has meted out so much pain to me. A kind of mutual aftercare.

 

[Mindfondler]

Me me me!!!! {{{{{Hugs}}}}}

Thank you! *another big squeezy hug*

And I am quite sure when you said "real Dom" that your tongue was firmly in your cheek (yes?) as in "twue Dom" the fantasy idea some pyls occasionally have of Doms and that some PYLs occasionally try to hold themselves to.

Oh yes! My tongue was so firmly in my cheek that I appeared to have acquired a giant abscess beside my mouth.

The odd thing is that I've never met any of these "real Dom" or "twue Dom" types in real life, yet they seem to make regular appearances online. It's as if these legendary beasts are unable to survive in the light of day.

This is reminding me of the quote that BFG found on a tumblr this week about how D/s relationships are partnerships, neither one being the "strong" one, but two sides of the same coin who cannot be without the other.

I like that! I doubt that it's true in all cases, as there are many different D/s dynamics, but it speaks loudly to me.

We are all human..our Doms need comfort, need advice, need us (their pyls) to help them be the best they can be just as we need them for all of those same things.

Yes please! I know that I'm always going to be learning, striving for better and needing advice and comfort (especially when I mess up).

I know that in those moments after he spanks me and he is giving me aftercare... he needs care too. Reassurance that I am okay and love him. He often specifically asks me to hug him after...so he can feel me holding him and loving him after he has meted out so much pain to me. A kind of mutual aftercare.

There are times when I've needed the aftercare. It's sometimes difficult for me to do what a sub wants. I might feel guilty, conflicted or worried that I've caused unwanted hurt. I've also experienced "Dom drop" (like "sub drop", but less well acknowledged) in which I've felt physically low and emotionally drained for 24-48 hours after a scene.

Of course, "real Doms" don't have any of these problems.
.

 

[DarkSimian]

I often sit silently because I don't believe that many of the traits associated with D/s (by your description) are exclusive to a D/s relationship. Shouldn't we all trying to be protective, loyal, and committed? There is a glimpse of traditional roles that is described that is fading and, in that way, I can see how people can make the connection.
It sounds to me as if you probably seek a relationship that would allow you to feel masculine, but perhaps not on such a defined stage.

Can I be the Omega Male? the last guy you call, when you really need someone, because you know I'll do the job right?

 

[cascadiabound]

Thank you! *another big squeezy hug*


Oh yes! My tongue was so firmly in my cheek that I appeared to have acquired a giant abscess beside my mouth.

The odd thing is that I've never met any of these "real Dom" or "twue Dom" types in real life, yet they seem to make regular appearances online. It's as if these legendary beasts are unable to survive in the light of day.


I like that! I doubt that it's true in all cases, as there are many different D/s dynamics, but it speaks loudly to me.


Yes please! I know that I'm always going to be learning, striving for better and needing advice and comfort (especially when I mess up).


There are times when I've needed the aftercare. It's sometimes difficult for me to do what a sub wants. I might feel guilty, conflicted or worried that I've caused unwanted hurt. I've also experienced "Dom drop" (like "sub drop", but less well acknowledged) in which I've felt physically low and emotionally drained for 24-48 hours after a scene.

Of course, "real Doms" don't have any of these problems.
.

I am quite sure Dom drop happens. And more often than is recognized. It takes a lot of work/ effort to create and manage a scene for a sub...to be in charge. And if pain is part of the scene...worry that perhaps you've gone too far.
I know the first couple times he bruised me he was quite distressed. I bruise easily.... Always have so this should not have been a surprise to him. And they hurt not at all. But...he worried. A lot. And he required my care. My reassurance, that really, he had not hurt me, nor done anything wrong.

 

[midwestyankee]

Yes. Dom or Top Drop is very much a real thing.

I've met a few men in the flesh who appeared to believe that they were "Real Doms" and I found them mostly boorish. Think Donald Trump but without all the sophistication, calm, and empathy.

 

[base10]

I know that in those moments after he spanks me and he is giving me aftercare... he needs care too. Reassurance that I am okay and love him. He often specifically asks me to hug him after...so he can feel me holding him and loving him after he has meted out so much pain to me. A kind of mutual aftercare.

This exactly, there is always some part of the back of my mind that I am really hurting you (not just a little pain in your backside), and that though in the name of play and sex, I am hurting and causing harm to someone I love and care for.

That reassurance from her is so so so fucking necessary.

 

[cascadiabound]

This exactly, there is always some part of the back of my mind that I am really hurting you (not just a little pain in your backside), and that though in the name of play and sex, I am hurting and causing harm to someone I love and care for.

That reassurance from her is so so so fucking necessary.

This is part of what makes communication and trust so deeply important in D/s particularly when there is impact and pain play involved.
It is so amazingly and deeply profound to experience this kind of sensation - i think in part because it is a bit socially taboo, but the mutual aftercare so that your Top feel okay having done this for and to you is beyond important.

so so so fucking necessary.