References, Please!

[MissTaken]

Many articles about on line safety suggest asking for "references." Even some yahoo chat groups require references.

Who might you use as a reference in terms of BDSM and in what context?

Do you ever ask for references?

Would one reference carry more weight than another?

 

[Richard49]

Many articles about on line safety suggest asking for "references." Even some yahoo chat groups require references.

Who might you use as a reference in terms of BDSM and in what context?

Do you ever ask for references?

Would one reference carry more weight than another?

IMHO if I was asked
I would walk

Again we see here an example of how
the internet is driving our life style into insanity

Sorry...bad day here .......

 

[MissTaken]

Re: Re: References, Please!

IMHO if I was asked
I would walk

Again we see here an example of how
the internet is driving our life style into insanity

Sorry...bad day here .......

Sorry about your bad day.

But what if you were coming to New York and wanted to meet? What if I asked for someone to talk to about you? Not even a submissive, but perhaps a friend in real time? Would you consider that out of line?

Oh, and the internet isn't necessarily driving the life style into insanity. It is broadening it and moving it more toward the mainstream, which means change and changes in perspective.

Dom or not, I might want some evidence of real life from someone I am meeting from the internet. Then, I might not

 

[lark sparrow]

I've never been asked for references. I did ask for references once when I went to see a proDomme but I had already looked up much about her on the internet and her reply was to feel free to ask anyone about her reputation in the BDSM community - she had no qualms about it although she did not go out of her way to provide specific references.

Usually through getting to know someone (IRL or online) I hear about past relationships and their take on it, meet their friends, hear about their life, and start to get my own references on what they are about. Until I have made some of my own decisions about who they are, I'm not sure having a friend of theirs, that I didn't know at all, saying they are great would sway me too much.

I wouldn't be against it, but no, generally speaking I don't ask, or get asked. But I've also never done personal ads or something like that. Online references seem like they could be a little iffy, unless you were absolutely sure it was indeed another person, and an honest one. Might need references on the references.

 

[Richard49]

Re: Re: Re: References, Please!

Sorry about your bad day.

But what if you were coming to New York and wanted to meet? What if I asked for someone to talk to about you? Not even a submissive, but perhaps a friend in real time? Would you consider that out of line?

Thank you ... $%^%$# VA

anyway...if I were coming ot NY and we were to see each other
1)I would hope we would have shared enough via internet and phone that you are confortable
2) You would know some of my friends at lest via online knowing them
3) if 1 & 2 are not true and you felt some need we could talk about possiblity of referrences

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

Here's where i am on the whole references thing. The last play partner i had, i met through bondage.com. After several weeks of corresponding through email and IM, we were considering arranging a meeting. I respectfully requested information from Him to perform a background check, which He provided, without blinking an eyelash. I also asked for a couple of references, which He also provided.

I'm not going to put myself in a position of meeting someone who i may be playing with, who may be in a position to do bodily harm to me, without some basic information. I want to know if this person has a history of violence, etc. A background check and references provide these. Call me paranoid, or call me safety conscious, *shrugs* but it's my life, my mind, my submission.

This time around, as it happens, i didn't go through all that with Him. Why? i was a lot more comfortable with myself for one thing. It was a much different situation for another, and i felt i had a much better handle on Him and His personality for another. He would have given me references, i'm quite sure, had i asked.

IMHO, i find it arrogant to say "i'll walk if someone asks for references." That would be a person that *i* would walk away from. I would wonder what they were hiding. That opinion may not be popular, but, as Artful used to say, "it's mine, and i own it."

~anelize

 

[ownedsubgal]

i agree with Richard on this one...i would never ask for references for anyone and i would be HIGHLY offended if someone had the nerve to ask for references regarding me....it's not a frickin (pardon my french) job interview. i think that while the internet has helped the D/s and bdsm worlds in many ways, it has also brought about a lot of vanilla, politically correct, mainstream bull dookey that i only hope fades away with time.

i am all for taking some common sense, basic safety precautions before meeting someone in person. but references??

 

[Ebonyfire]

Many articles about on line safety suggest asking for "references." Even some yahoo chat groups require references.

Who might you use as a reference in terms of BDSM and in what context?

Do you ever ask for references?

Would one reference carry more weight than another?

I do not ask for references, and I do not require them. I do not require references for my dates , and SOs, so I hardly see why they are necessary for a submissvive.

I can make my own judgments about people. YMMV.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: References, Please!

I do not ask for references, and I do not require them. I do not require references for my dates and SOs, so I hardly see why they are necessary for a submissvive.

I can make my own judgments about people. YMMV.

 

[Ebonyfire]

i agree with Richard on this one...i would never ask for references for anyone and i would be HIGHLY offended if someone had the nerve to ask for references regarding me....it's not a frickin (pardon my french) job interview. i think that while the internet has helped the D/s and bdsm worlds in many ways, it has also brought about a lot of vanilla, politically correct, mainstream bull dookey that i only hope fades away with time.

i am all for taking some common sense, basic safety precautions before meeting someone in person. but references??

I agree.

And I if people would take the time to get to know their partners they would not need references. Just keep your clothes on until you know who you are dealing with.

Take precautions, (safe calls, etc.)
And listen to that little voice that warns you of potential trouble.

References can be jury rigged.

 

[Netzach]

I don't really ask for references, though if someone asked me for them I'm happy to provide them, I don't find it offensive.

What I do pay attention to is how I see the person I am interested in treating others. I don't do serious stuff with someone I've never watched in a group context. How they treat others is a huge tip-off for me, simply huge.

If you are an asshole to waiters, kids, animals and little old ladies, I know everything I want to know.

 

[Richard49]

IMHO, i find it arrogant to say "i'll walk if someone asks for references." That would be a person that *i* would walk away from. I would wonder what they were hiding. That opinion may not be popular, but, as Artful used to say, "it's mine, and i own it."

~anelize

and I find this and other statments you have made about me very judgemental ...........

you have right to your beliefs, feelings, opinions etc.
without judging me for mine

BTW I never would seek to meet you
so we do not have to worry about our differences

 

[Richard49]

I agree.

And I if people would take the time to get to know their partners they would not need references. Just keep your clothes on until you know who you are dealing with.

Take precautions, (safe calls, etc.)
And listen to that little voice that warns you of potential trouble.

References can be jury rigged.

AMEN !!!!!!!

Now I know that even if you hooked up in RT
(God do I know)
you can still end up with a psycho

However you have a better cahnce of knowing them
and taking time....
Well let me say
I agree with EB

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

and I find this and other statments you have made about me very judgemental ...........

you have right to your beliefs, feelings, opinions etc.
without judging me for mine

BTW I never would seek to meet you
so we do not have to worry about our differences

Richard--

For christ's sake, grow UP. Yes, i used the word "arrogant." For every time I have dis'd you, I have complimented you on some thread or another as well, in a PM.

I refuse to make nice and kiss up. You are a big boy and can take it. Remember these words?

Serenity to Accept the things I cannot change.
Courage to Change the things I can.
and the Wisdom to know the difference.

Mark me down as one of the things you cannot change if you'd like and get over it.

~anelize

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

I think the call for references depends alot on the circumstances, but to rule them out altogether seems foolish. Especially in a long distance first meeting, why would any of you say references aren't required? What happened to all that 'safe, sane, consentual' stuff you all bandy about? We all know there are predators out there, and asking for references is a way of adding a layer of safety to the whole thing.

Richard, you yourself accept the need for possible 'references'...

2) You would know some of my friends at lest via online knowing them

...that counts as references!

 

[MissTaken]

I would say that there is no blanket rule.

Good point, Johnny. Generally, if I intend to meet someone from here, there is no reason for references or anything. It is easy enough to see how they interact with others by watching their behavior on the boards.

In fact, I have invited people here whom I was meeting, for that vary reason. If the only interaction is on the phone and on yahoo IM or e mails, it is a nice way to test the waters.

There are have been times when chatting with someone, they may say, "My sister said this and that...., "You would like her" I may ask if I can e mail with sister.

I have never asked for "references", but someone who truly doesn't seem to want to be able to include me in their circle of friends, or who won't go here or somewhere else on line with others, concerns me. So, a judgement call, yes?


Now, I have been asked for references vis a vis a website I would like to join. How to chose a reference in that situation? They want to be able to determine that those participating are experienced in real life D/s and are not men posing as women.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

I personally have an audition process that involves a 1500-word essay, a 3-mile run, and three 2-minute rounds of gator wrestling.

 

[MissTaken]

I personally have an audition process that involves a 1500-word essay, a 3-mile run, and three 2-minute rounds of gator wrestling.

I would fail that test, but won't tell you which part.

 

[Richard49]

Richard, you yourself accept the need for possible 'references'...

...that counts as references!

No I do not
and the partical sentence you quote does not say that
It says you would have already got to know some of my freinds via online ...........

If you are in my life in a way that I might actually meet you
then you would be included in other online conversations
that would include people that know me RT.

 

[Richard49]

Richard--

For christ's sake, grow UP. Yes, i used the word "arrogant." For every time I have dis'd you, I have complimented you on some thread or another as well, in a PM.

I refuse to make nice and kiss up. You are a big boy and can take it. Remember these words?

Serenity to Accept the things I cannot change.
Courage to Change the things I can.
and the Wisdom to know the difference.

Mark me down as one of the things you cannot change if you'd like and get over it.

~anelize

No I can not change you

however in the future I can totally ignor you
cause you are not worth the effert to read your posts
not alone respond to them

You are just another version of
Lance the Moran

 

[Richard49]

Now, I have been asked for references vis a vis a website I would like to join. How to chose a reference in that situation? They want to be able to determine that those participating are experienced in real life D/s and are not men posing as women.

If I wish to join something
and they have standards for joining
weather this be RT or online
then I need to be willing to "prove"
I meet those standards

When I went to join the VFW I had to prove two things
1) that I was a honorably discharges veteran
2) that I served in a combat situtation
I did this with my DD 214

I own serveral discusion lists.
Most of them need me to approve your subscribtion
before you can post or read ........ I often dialgue with
potential subscribers before approve them
No I do not ask for references

 

[Richard49]

I have never asked for "references", but someone who truly doesn't seem to want to be able to include me in their circle of friends, or who won't go here or somewhere else on line with others, concerns me. So, a judgement call, yes?

This is covered under #2 of my answer.

I think that as we get to kow someone weather online or RT
We include them with our other "friends"
If we or they do not include us it can say one of two things
1) they have something to hide
2) they are mebaressed by us in some way
make that 3 possiblities
3) they do not have good social skills

There are those here at lit that I would NOT take beyond
disucssions here .... just as in real life ... there are people I interact with at one level only....an example of that are some members of my local VFW post ... I am involved with them there but have no disire to inact with them any where else

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

<snip>
You are just another version of
Lance the Moran

*coffespew*

ignore me if you must...but that part is just plain hilarious!

~anelize

 

[Sunnflower]

Do you ever ask for references?

IMHO
References tell me more about the person giving it than the person being referenced.

Whatever happened to the good old talk together quite a bit, go out public dinnering, or to some other public gathering (maybe hopefully even a BDSM gathering/munch/play party, etc). Getting a handle on how that person relates and interracts with others would be a better guess on how that person really is. Let's face it, it boils down to personal impression and judgement, not someone else's impression.

Personal safety IS everyone's responsibility. I just don't think getting references is the best measure of evaluating a potential submissive or dominant person. We're not talking references on getting a roof replaced after all.

 

[Trainerman]

Another view.....

Look, if we cut across the personality clashes that are going on here, it seems we can agree on the following:-

1) That SSC is a must and an inherent part of this is that the person you are interfacing with needs to be known to be safe...or at least, insofar as is possible

2) We would all take such steps as we individually see fit to care for our own safety.

We all make our own choices but it is well known that people on the Net are not all they claim to be. Yes, we look for the warning signs but that is not in itself enough. I also think it is affected by cases. For example I am male, fairly large and fit and a Dom (though I really don't like that word )! Therefore any female potential sub coming to meet me is much more vulnerable than I am. I regard it as my duty to make her as comfortable as I can and if she wanted references I would not be offended nor would I walk. I would regard this an entirely reasonable request in the circumstances.

Whilst it is true that references can be rigged at least I know that I am providing true ones.

In any case, no meeting would take place without phone conversations first. You can tell a lot from a voice and the way of speaking, you know. For the right person, of whose sincerity I was convinced then I would enable telephone access to my referees. Now, isn't that all reasonable and a case of treating people how I myself would like to be treated?

Dave