Rebuilding Trust?

[amofiga]

I suppose the simplest way to explain it is for me, forgiveness is letting go of the anger, hatred, resentment and/or other bad feelings I've been holding against someone. It's a conscious decision to move forward, rather than [re]live the past and let my past feelings dictate my thoughts and actions. There's a release then steps forward.

That doesn't mean I won't store the wrongdoing away somewhere just in case other things come up in the future, though. For instance, if a partner cheats on me, I may forgive them, but they're not going to get the same "fresh start" if they lie or cheat in the future - my memory will put the previous and current offenses together, decide whether or not it's a pattern, and use that information to make decisions going forward.

I think to "forgive" does not imply to "forget". It's what I meant earlier when I spoke of the "elephant in the room". The actions that occured in the past don't disappear. They are always there even if they may not be spoken of outright, and even if they have tended to fade. It's like any pain one has experienced in the past, from a broken leg to a broken heart, from a tooth extraction to childbirth. It fades, it becomes easier to think about rationally, but it doesn't disappear.

That being said, it's important to remember that humans are not perfect. We all make mistakes and I'm a big believer in the "he who has not sin cast the first stone" view of human behavior. I can say that having been the one to cause pain and witness what it does o someone else; having been one who has had to face deteriorating health; having seen the world from aging eyes, I can say that my level of tolerance and sensitivity to the issues of others has improved from what it was 25-35 years ago. I only wish more people who called themselves "Christians" (regardless of whether you're really Christian, Jew, Moslem, etc) would actually behave in a manner that was more forgiving and tolerant of their fellow human. Releaving yourself of the hate and anger is an important factor in finding future peace and well-being. It's like that chain of sin dragged by Jacob Marley in "A Christmas Carol". It only serves to slow you down from living your life.

 

[culloden]

"It's kind of off-track, but what do you think led to your brother being a thief and bum? Is it something inherent in him, or was he raised/treated differently than you when he was growing up?"

He's my half-brother, and he spent most of his time with his mother. The reason my father had divorced her was she was stepping out in him. So, nature or nurture, his stock is different from mine in many ways.

As to the poster who didn't understand forgiveness, I think it's usually a mistake to see the world in black and white. Life isn't binary. My brother has a long record of hurting other people - he is a pathological liar with a string of children he doesn't support, and a long criminal record ranging from various types of theft to drugs. Long after I washed my hands of him, he was still taking advantage of our father. Continuing a relationship with my brother would have exposed me and those around me to more damage. Particularly once I had kids, it would have been irresponsible to have him in our lives. There was a preponderance of negative evidence. I don't hate my brother, but I can't find enough good in him to like him, either. I've forgiven him for the things he's done to me. It's not a perfect forgiveness, but at least I have no expectation of him making good for the things he took from me. I haven't really missed those things in a long time, and I hardly think about him at all these days. But I don't want him around, either.

The other half of my example, my wife, who I have to emphasize has never strayed, has built up a huge bank of trust with me. We've been there for each other through the events of half a lifetime. If she were to cheat, I would have to weigh that against all the rest of our experience.

And forgiveness isn't just about the person you're forgiving. It's also about yourself. I think there's a continuum between forgiveness and bitterness. I've been bitter at times. It sucks. Who needs that? I think it's best to forgive and move on. You don't need to keep the negative in your heart.

 

[culloden]

I think to "forgive" does not imply to "forget". It's what I meant earlier when I spoke of the "elephant in the room". The actions that occured in the past don't disappear. They are always there even if they may not be spoken of outright, and even if they have tended to fade. It's like any pain one has experienced in the past, from a broken leg to a broken heart, from a tooth extraction to childbirth. It fades, it becomes easier to think about rationally, but it doesn't disappear.

That being said, it's important to remember that humans are not perfect. We all make mistakes and I'm a big believer in the "he who has not sin cast the first stone" view of human behavior. I can say that having been the one to cause pain and witness what it does o someone else; having been one who has had to face deteriorating health; having seen the world from aging eyes, I can say that my level of tolerance and sensitivity to the issues of others has improved from what it was 25-35 years ago. I only wish more people who called themselves "Christians" (regardless of whether you're really Christian, Jew, Moslem, etc) would actually behave in a manner that was more forgiving and tolerant of their fellow human. Releaving yourself of the hate and anger is an important factor in finding future peace and well-being. It's like that chain of sin dragged by Jacob Marley in "A Christmas Carol". It only serves to slow you down from living your life.

Exactly.

 

[bailadora]

And forgiveness isn't just about the person you're forgiving. It's also about yourself. I think there's a continuum between forgiveness and bitterness. I've been bitter at times. It sucks. Who needs that? I think it's best to forgive and move on. You don't need to keep the negative in your heart.

*nods*

I saw a great quote the other day: "Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Let it go."

 

[culloden]

*nods*

I saw a great quote the other day: "Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Let it go."

Lit needs a "Like" button such as FB has.

 

[cfuhrer]

That is something I have never understood: forgiveness. Especially that last bit. How can you forgive without forgetting? The memory keeps the harm perpetually new.

I suppose the simplest way to explain it is for me, forgiveness is letting go of the anger, hatred, resentment and/or other bad feelings I've been holding against someone. It's a conscious decision to move forward, rather than [re]live the past and let my past feelings dictate my thoughts and actions. There's a release then steps forward.

For me, forgiveness is (in certain instances, and certainly when the betrayal is fresh) a daily exercise. My memory drags up the experience out of nowhere and I have to consciously make the decision to forgive the person all over again and work on moving forward. So while I never forget the incident, I try to always forgive it and move on.

 

[SweetErika]

*nods*

I saw a great quote the other day: "Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Let it go."

That's a great quote; thanks for sharing it with us, B!

For me, forgiveness is (in certain instances, and certainly when the betrayal is fresh) a daily exercise. My memory drags up the experience out of nowhere and I have to consciously make the decision to forgive the person all over again and work on moving forward. So while I never forget the incident, I try to always forgive it and move on.

Agreed. I've only recently started forgiving a loved one who's done a spectacular amount of harm to me. It's a conscious act every time those thoughts and feelings come up; sometimes I even have to remind myself that I'm working on forgiveness out loud. I guess a lot of it comes down to trying to look at the good, learn the lessons (including how to trust again), grow and find peace so I'm not a captive of the pain and negativity anymore. It's very difficult, but definitely part of the healing process.

 

[culloden]

The original question was about rebuilding trust, and forgiveness is only one part of that. It's possible to forgive a person without going back to how things were before. Another important component here is deciding the scale of the relationship going forward. Whenever we enter a relationship, we make ourselves vulnerable to some degree or another. How vulnerable we make ourselves is perhaps the crux of the original question.

 

[AdjectiveNounVerb]

I suppose the simplest way to explain it is for me, forgiveness is letting go of the anger, hatred, resentment and/or other bad feelings I've been holding against someone. It's a conscious decision to move forward, rather than [re]live the past and let my past feelings dictate my thoughts and actions. There's a release then steps forward.

It's a conscious act every time those thoughts and feelings come up; sometimes I even have to remind myself that I'm working on forgiveness out loud. I guess a lot of it comes down to trying to look at the good, learn the lessons (including how to trust again), grow and find peace so I'm not a captive of the pain and negativity anymore. It's very difficult, but definitely part of the healing process.

I think to "forgive" does not imply to "forget". It's what I meant earlier when I spoke of the "elephant in the room". The actions that occured in the past don't disappear. They are always there even if they may not be spoken of outright, and even if they have tended to fade. It's like any pain one has experienced in the past, from a broken leg to a broken heart, from a tooth extraction to childbirth. It fades, it becomes easier to think about rationally, but it doesn't disappear.

That being said, it's important to remember that humans are not perfect. We all make mistakes and I'm a big believer in the "he who has not sin cast the first stone" view of human behavior... Releaving yourself of the hate and anger is an important factor in finding future peace and well-being. It's like that chain of sin dragged by Jacob Marley in "A Christmas Carol". It only serves to slow you down from living your life.

As to the poster who didn't understand forgiveness, I think it's usually a mistake to see the world in black and white. Life isn't binary...

And forgiveness isn't just about the person you're forgiving. It's also about yourself. I think there's a continuum between forgiveness and bitterness. I've been bitter at times. It sucks. Who needs that? I think it's best to forgive and move on. You don't need to keep the negative in your heart.

Well, if nothing else I appreciate the many responses to my difficulties with forgiveness. And honestly, all of ya'll are saying things that intellectually make sense if I think about them in the abstract. It's just that without that sense of detachment... I don't know how to let go of the anger and the hate. It's almost a hypothetical though, because I don't think I've ever really tried to do it. Not sure I ever wanted to. Maybe I'm too addicted to binary thinking and drinking the poison? I know it's how I was raised - the message I got from my parents was "Nobody's without sin so throw stones at everyone, especially yourself*" - and maybe living in an island of bitterness with forgiveness on some other island over the horizon is just so familiar I've never wanted to explore something else?

I've actually read a few of one author here's stories recently that had atonement, forgiveness, and rebuilding trust as the main themes. Very well-written stories and worth making an exception to my usual habit of not reading stories from their category but they've been leaving me with extremely confused emotions.

*Part of my unwillingness to contemplate forgiving someone and allowing them to regain my trust is probably because I'm unwilling to the point of inability to forgive myself for being so stupid and gullible that I ever trusted them to begin with.

 

[remy_lebeau8]

Trust, I beleve, can be earned back if both parties truely think it is worth another try. About a year ago may girlfriend cheated on Me and it tore me apart. I didn't know what was happining. I was hit with so many emotions all at once that I couldn't function for a good day. We seperated for a few weeks and tried to talk it out. Why it happened and whatnot. Though a the anger and hurt deep down I still loved her but I didn't know if anything could be salvaged. We ended up getting back together but decided communication had to be In the forefront. Like others said I believe that communication and the desire to forgive and move on make it easier to trust.

Now I'm not saying the pain isn't still there, nor am I saying the trust is fully restored because it isn't . I'm actually tearing up typing is as my mind drifts to a dark place. I do however feel that our relationship is much stronger now then it was because if one of us is upset, we let the other know instead of just brushing it off.

I think the reason I even made the attempt is because she told me verses me catching her. I saw that bit of honesty in the situation as a possible redeemimg point. Maybe I'm just out of my mind.

End story.

Remy

 

[njlauren]

Forgiveness is more for the person doing the forgiving then the person they are putting it on, it is about the need to let it go, to stop obsessing about it and heal. When you forgive someone else it doesn't mean you give them a get out of jail free card or absolve them of their sins, whatever they are, but rather it is about breaking the emotions that tie you, the victim, the the act they did, the pain, the anger, whatever it was. It doesn't mean forgetting, it means simply letting it go and saying whatever you did, I no longer am going to let it hurt me, by forgiving you I am breaking that link.

Yes, forgiveness is the first step towards reconciling, if you want to do that, but there is a lot then that to it, a lot more. The person who committed the breach is their own parr in this, it is repentance, and I am not talking in the traditional sense. Repentance is someone acknowledging what they did ,both to the victim, and it is about making good on what they did badly as well. Repentance has many different ways it can happen, it can be in demonstrating to the victim that you know what you did was bad, and also why you did it (put it this way, the stories where someone says "forgive me honey, it was just sex" is not showing repentance, that is trying to dismiss it or rationalize it away). It also is about healing, it is about clearing the emotional scar tissue that unlike many of the stories on here, the perpetrator has, and it is also about demonstrating that the perp cares about the victim and is trying to help them heal, is trying to truly make amends for what they did. Put it this way, if someone is seeking forgiveness and repentance and it seems more about them trying to make themselves feel better, it comes off as what it is, phony; if on the other hand it seems like they are seeking forgiveness and a large part of it seems to be genuine concern for the pain the victim(s) have suffered, if they put that first (for example, in a cheating situation, I would give more credit to a spouse/partner who asked me to forgive them and did so without conditions rather then the person who said something like "Could you forgive me, I really figured out I want to be with you". I would give a lot more credit to someone who said "I fucked up, I really hurt you and I bear the full blame for what happened, I was stupid, and I came here to apologize and hopefully help you heal from what I did, and hopefully if I am able to make amends, you can forgive me,because then I can forgive myself"...that person shows to me that they care more about me than them and is truly contrite by putting me first; whereas if they said "I love you, I want to stay with you and I need your forgiveness for that" it sounds just too self serving.

The other thing with rebuilding trust is that going forward it is going to have to come through a reconciliation and the relationship forged is going to have to be a new one and the trust established in that new one, not the old one. If they try to revive the old relationship, the breach of trust is going to be right there since it was based in the old one. So what does it mean to have a new relationship? It would need to be one that doesn't remind them of the old one, if in the old relationship the perpetrator of the breach was inattentive to the other person or seemed to take them for granted, that would need to change. If they both had trouble communicating, that would have to be there, and they both would acknowledge that the old relationship was dead, and also that with that some of the things they once had would also be lost, hopefully to be replaced by new things.

One couple I know went through an issue with a breach (it wasn't sexual, it was that both the wife and husband were talking to others about issues in their marriage (not therapists), they both felt betrayed and it was serious. They didn't want to split up, they loved each other, but they did something pretty unique, they in effect 'separated', they stopped wearing their wedding rings and even though they still lived together, they slept in separate rooms (neither slept in their old bedroom, that was for when they were 'married' again) and they literally went through a cycle of dating and wooing again, they went out on dates, they cooked dinner for each other and so forth, rebuilt it stone by stone that way and went through a really cute (to me, anyway) courtship, including both of them formally asking the other one to have them again, when they both finally agreed they held a party where they officially were 'married' again. Might seem extreme, but they got to know each other over again, were forced to focus as they did when they were dating, and it really helped them focus, which was kind of cool. They actually changed a lot in their relationship, when they were 'divorced' both of them worked on themselves, to make themselves more attractive (worked out, the wife rediscovered dressing to feel better, they both did some work with counselors, consciously changed things to get out of the slump, a lot of things). In their case their new relationship was that, prob was stronger then their old one, though they also admit that they did lose some of the comfort they once had with each other, some of the innocence was lost, but that they were a lot stronger as they were afterwords.

 

[Paul_Chance]

Apologize. Forever.

We're supposed to trust people? (Just joking.)

Apologize until you collapse from dehydration, then get up and apologize some more. For a very long time.

Then, accept you cannot rebuild the trust. You've crossed the Rubicon, you can't go back - if you're interested in keeping the relationship, you have to build a new trust, which will involve understanding, communication, and negotiation. Therapy and counseling can work wonders. There is no one size fits all answer that I am aware of.

I've broken the trust in two relationships over the course of my life - both for different reasons, both with different results. The first time - I simply didn't care anymore and it was my way of tossing a match on the gasoline to burn the whole thing down. The second time, it was an act of retaliation and a case of mutual trust breaking. After hundreds of hours of conversation we emerged stronger and with a better understanding of each other.

 

[Scotsman69]

Forgiveness is possible

It requires unconditional love.

That is something I have never understood: forgiveness. Especially that last bit. How can you forgive without forgetting? The memory keeps the harm perpetually new. But what is forgiveness, anyway - and how do you do it? Culloden's "You are dead to me, I'll forgive you at my funeral" approach makes sense to me as the merciful alternative to "You have hurt me, so now I will make your life hell to the fullest extent the law allows". That isn't forgiveness, but it's what I understand and it's what seems right and natural to me. I understand how punishing yourself for the wrongs you've done is freeing, since your pain atones for some of your guilt and frees you from some of those feelings, and I understand how punishing someone who wronged you can feel freeing. Forgiving them, though... I almost feel like forgiveness is a sin.

Which means I guess my answer to your original question is that I don't believe my trust can be rebuilt and likewise I wouldn't expect anyone to trust me ever again after I'd betrayed them, no matter what I did to atone for it or make amends. Time only goes one direction so harm can't be undone. The time you spent with whoever broke your trust can't be taken back from them and respent with someone else who won't break your trust. You can't forget the harm that was done. Put those things together and I don't believe forgiveness is possible.

 

[amofiga]

Well, if nothing else I appreciate the many responses to my difficulties with forgiveness. And honestly, all of ya'll are saying things that intellectually make sense if I think about them in the abstract. It's just that without that sense of detachment... I don't know how to let go of the anger and the hate. It's almost a hypothetical though, because I don't think I've ever really tried to do it. Not sure I ever wanted to. Maybe I'm too addicted to binary thinking and drinking the poison? I know it's how I was raised - the message I got from my parents was "Nobody's without sin so throw stones at everyone, especially yourself*" - and maybe living in an island of bitterness with forgiveness on some other island over the horizon is just so familiar I've never wanted to explore something else?

I loved your term "island of bitterness". I've known some people like this who refuse to let some things go. I have also been on that island too in the past, not so much with a loss of 'sexual trust" which seems to be the theme here, but with a loss of professional trust where several people over the years of tried to get me fired because I refused to give in to certain "implied" or overt requests to compromise data in order to avoid costs and schedule delays. Fortunately, I had supervisors who backed me, but I can't tell you the bitterness I held for those who I still had to work with every day, but who would have me lose my job to make their own lives easier, even at the risk of safety and principles. It took me a long time to try to understand their motives and to come to the realization that my own bitterness toward them and my desire for revenge (?) was stressing me out, hurting my health, mental well being, and future growth. Nobody said it was easy.

 

[Noor]

Teshuvah is used to describe the concept of repentance in Judaism. Although this is a religious ritual that I do not follow as a matter of religion, the steps outlined in the article are the process I use when I have done something wrong. I also believe that people can do bad things without being bad people.

"Teshuvah: Dry Cleaning for the Soul
By Rabbi Shraga Simmons
Editor's Note: The following are excerpts from an article at www.aish.com.

Done something wrong? We all have. Here's how to fix it. Once and for all.

Many people misunderstand the concept of sin. They think someone who sins is a "bad person."

Actually, the Hebrew word chet does not mean sin at all. Chet appears in the Bible in reference to a slingshot which "missed the target." There is nothing inherently "bad" about that slingshot! Rather, a mistake was made-due to a lack of focus, concentration or skill.

The same is true with us. When we engage in irresponsible or destructive behavior, we have simply misfired. Every human being has a soul, a pure piece of Godliness that distinguishes us from the animals. When we do something wrong, it is because the soul's "voice" has become temporarily muted by the roar of the physical body-but our essence remains pure. We only need to make a few adjustments.

This is the idea of Teshuvah. Teshuvah literally means "return." When we "do Teshuvah" during the High Holidays, we examine our ways, identify those areas where we are losing ground and "return" to our own previous state of spiritual purity. And in the process, we "return" to our connection with the Almighty as well.

The process of Teshuvah involves the following four steps:

# Step 1: Regret. Realize the extent of the damage and feel sincere regret. This step is the most crucial, because unless a person truly feels regret and can distinguish between right and wrong, he or she will most likely continue in his/her errant ways.
# Step 2: Cessation. Immediately stop the harmful action. Can you imagine trying to ask forgiveness from someone while you continue to wrong him/her at the same time? Without stopping the bad action, all the heart-pounding in the world won't help.
# Step 3: Confession. Articulate the mistake and ask for forgiveness. In admitting our mistake, Jewish law prescribes that it be articulated verbally. The Torah requires us to be humble and contrite as we ask forgiveness. This is crucial in enabling the "victim" to heal.
# Step 4: Resolution. Make a firm commitment not to repeat it in the future. What concerns the Almighty is whether we're making a sincere effort to move in the right direction. This means making a serious commitment to change-and taking the right steps at the right time. Nothing can stand in the way of persistence and determination. An individual doesn't need to have all the answers right now. The key is the commitment to change."

 

[Noor]

For me forgiveness is a lot easier than trusting again. Also unconditional love doesn't equate trust.

I agree that one can't go back one can only go forward to something new.
Open communication is essentially, understanding of what and why it happened, how it will be avoided in the future and acknowledgement on a real and deep level of the damage is important.

There is also intent. If the person broke the trust to intentionally control or hurt the other person, then there are much bigger problems to resolved that just the area where the trust was broken. Sometimes people can attack like cornered wounded animals without ever letting anyone know they feel wounded or checking to see if they really are indeed cornered. I am sure it happens to most people at some point, but some people think this is an acceptable way of dealing with things, I don't. They apologize but they still think its okay to strike out at another person because they are scared, confused and feeling trapped. I have some people like this in my life but I keep them at arms length.

I think the worst thing one person can do to another is break their trust and never deal with it. With no resolution or discussion everything else known between them is in question, and the person betrayed/hurt no longer knows what, if anything, about them and their relationship was real.
It also makes them feel that they don't matter, and never did.
That can be much more damaging that the actual abuse of trust and affect them throughout their other relationships.
I suspect the betrayers usually do and did care but don't know what to do to change the situation, so they do nothing.

 

[Noor]

I posted this some times ago but still rings true for me

Asking for forgiveness and forgiving are wonderful freeing things, probably one of the best things one person can do for another.

It helps them let go of negative feelings and move forward, replacing bad feelings with positive ones.

It gives closure to hurts that re-erupt whenever they think about the person, and heals damage that could hurt future relationships.

 

[njlauren]

Nice post, noor

Religion can have wisdom without practicing the faith and Judaism is very rich when it comes to issues of falling short, redemption and so forth. Missing the mark acknowledges human beings are imperfect, and that both the person who does the bad act and the one who is the victim are human, and if we are all imperfect, then forgiving others is also acknowledging we, too, can do bad things, are looking it as a fellow human being and not. I liked the Rebbe's words, he describes what I heard in a brilliant sermon by a progressive minister, about the concept of what it means to sin, what repentance is, and it is very similar to what the Rebbe talks about.

Christianity I believe has lost some of that, I don't think it is what Christ taught (who after all was a Rabbinic Jewish Rebbe), but rather what others manipulated it to be. Especially with the born again/evangelical crowd, who proclaim that since they believe in Jesus, that Jesus died on the cross to forgive our sins, all is good (in a sense, a get out of jail free card) and they forget about an old concept, repentance. Sure, they will say mea culpa, mea culpa, i have done wrong, but where is the true repentance? Where is acknowledging the wrong, both to yourself and the victim, and making good. Think about some of the so called "evangelicals" and such who have gotten caught (Jimmy Swaggert, anyone), who get down on their knees and beg forgiveness....and don't do anything. Ted Haggerdy gets caught with a male prostitute with drugs, and all he talks about is excuses....where is the repentance? You might be forgiven for your sins by God (which Judaism wisely doesn't not universally proclaim, that if you believe the right thing all is forgiven), but what about those you have hurt? There have been studies that orthodox Christians who take this vision of Christ, are more likely to serially commit things like adultery and such, that more liberal or non traditional people are more likely to try to make amends.....


In any event, a nice post

 

[Noor]

Thanks njlauren!

 

[rbone04]

It requires unconditional love.

Simply stated yet powerful. There is some amazing insight throughout this entire thread, but I think the mention of just how powerful a force true love can be when working to rebuild broken trust is severely understated in this conversation.

Some may argue that to break trust in the first place demonstrates love is lacking. However, no person is without weakness and forbidden desires. Of these two, I believe the only thing that differs amongst us all is degree of weakness required to give way to these desires. I don't believe this variance is directly related to the capacity to love/be loved. Rather, love is an unfortunate casualty when desire prevails.

I think that, if it exists and is strong enough, love will reinforce the bonds needed to mend broken trust if both sides possess it and are willing to communicate and face the facts head-on. Moreover, in the presence of true love, this willingness should be a nearly involuntary action once both parties have acknowledged the breach has occured (albeit maybe not before the screaming match is over with).

Forgiveness isn't easy. In fact, if your not sure of love--can you be sure forgiveness is even possible? Let alone even worth trying?

I certainly don't believe forgiveness necessarily means trust has been restored. For this reason you must decide... Is this love or infatuation? If love then I believe trust is absolutely possible to restore with teamwork, communication, and commitment. If infatuation then I believe trust may be possible to restore but, just as infatuation can be confused with love--so too, can forgiveness be confused with restored trust.

Remember, you are the most important person in your own life so you must protect yourself while in trust's rebuilding-phase. If you are the one who gets hurt--careful consideration is needed to be certain the other is deserving of recovering your trust and whether or not you possess the love necessary to truly give it back. If you are the one who did the hurting--serious self-reflection is necessary to decide whether it was a matter of love being a casualty of weakness giving in to desire, or if you even loved that person to begin with.

 

[MakeYouSquirm]

Just compensation, at about 20 minutes into this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8QKOUbosNo&feature=player_embedded

Ignore the religous parts.

The entire Marriage Builders program is excellent.

 

[bailadora]

Also unconditional love doesn't equate trust.

Quoted for truth. There are people to whom I'm related, who I love but don't trust, let alone particularly like as a person.

The original question was about rebuilding trust, and forgiveness is only one part of that. It's possible to forgive a person without going back to how things were before. Another important component here is deciding the scale of the relationship going forward. Whenever we enter a relationship, we make ourselves vulnerable to some degree or another. How vulnerable we make ourselves is perhaps the crux of the original question.

Excellent points. The deeper the vulnerability, the greater the sense of betrayal if trust is knowingly and deliberately broken. If my husband ever did this to me, I think that bank of trust would be a double edged sword. On the one hand - it would probably make me inclined to give the relationship another go, if he was truly sorry and truly committed to reconciliation. On the other.....the knowledge that he knew how bad said action would hurt me, but did it anyway, would wound me beyond belief. It might be possible to rebuild *A* level of trust, but I honestly don't think I'd ever be able to regain the *SAME* level of trust in him.

 

[AdjectiveNounVerb]

Forgiveness is more for the person doing the forgiving then the person they are putting it on, it is about the need to let it go, to stop obsessing about it and heal. When you forgive someone else it doesn't mean you give them a get out of jail free card or absolve them of their sins, whatever they are, but rather it is about breaking the emotions that tie you, the victim, the the act they did, the pain, the anger, whatever it was. It doesn't mean forgetting, it means simply letting it go and saying whatever you did, I no longer am going to let it hurt me, by forgiving you I am breaking that link.

Yes, forgiveness is the first step towards reconciling, if you want to do that, but there is a lot then that to it, a lot more. The person who committed the breach is their own parr in this, it is repentance, and I am not talking in the traditional sense. Repentance is someone acknowledging what they did ,both to the victim, and it is about making good on what they did badly as well. Repentance has many different ways it can happen, it can be in demonstrating to the victim that you know what you did was bad, and also why you did it (put it this way, the stories where someone says "forgive me honey, it was just sex" is not showing repentance, that is trying to dismiss it or rationalize it away). It also is about healing, it is about clearing the emotional scar tissue that unlike many of the stories on here, the perpetrator has, and it is also about demonstrating that the perp cares about the victim and is trying to help them heal, is trying to truly make amends for what they did. Put it this way, if someone is seeking forgiveness and repentance and it seems more about them trying to make themselves feel better, it comes off as what it is, phony; if on the other hand it seems like they are seeking forgiveness and a large part of it seems to be genuine concern for the pain the victim(s) have suffered, if they put that first (for example, in a cheating situation, I would give more credit to a spouse/partner who asked me to forgive them and did so without conditions rather then the person who said something like "Could you forgive me, I really figured out I want to be with you". I would give a lot more credit to someone who said "I fucked up, I really hurt you and I bear the full blame for what happened, I was stupid, and I came here to apologize and hopefully help you heal from what I did, and hopefully if I am able to make amends, you can forgive me,because then I can forgive myself"...that person shows to me that they care more about me than them and is truly contrite by putting me first; whereas if they said "I love you, I want to stay with you and I need your forgiveness for that" it sounds just too self serving.

The other thing with rebuilding trust is that going forward it is going to have to come through a reconciliation and the relationship forged is going to have to be a new one and the trust established in that new one, not the old one. If they try to revive the old relationship, the breach of trust is going to be right there since it was based in the old one. So what does it mean to have a new relationship? It would need to be one that doesn't remind them of the old one, if in the old relationship the perpetrator of the breach was inattentive to the other person or seemed to take them for granted, that would need to change. If they both had trouble communicating, that would have to be there, and they both would acknowledge that the old relationship was dead, and also that with that some of the things they once had would also be lost, hopefully to be replaced by new things.

One couple I know went through an issue with a breach (it wasn't sexual, it was that both the wife and husband were talking to others about issues in their marriage (not therapists), they both felt betrayed and it was serious. They didn't want to split up, they loved each other, but they did something pretty unique, they in effect 'separated', they stopped wearing their wedding rings and even though they still lived together, they slept in separate rooms (neither slept in their old bedroom, that was for when they were 'married' again) and they literally went through a cycle of dating and wooing again, they went out on dates, they cooked dinner for each other and so forth, rebuilt it stone by stone that way and went through a really cute (to me, anyway) courtship, including both of them formally asking the other one to have them again, when they both finally agreed they held a party where they officially were 'married' again. Might seem extreme, but they got to know each other over again, were forced to focus as they did when they were dating, and it really helped them focus, which was kind of cool. They actually changed a lot in their relationship, when they were 'divorced' both of them worked on themselves, to make themselves more attractive (worked out, the wife rediscovered dressing to feel better, they both did some work with counselors, consciously changed things to get out of the slump, a lot of things). In their case their new relationship was that, prob was stronger then their old one, though they also admit that they did lose some of the comfort they once had with each other, some of the innocence was lost, but that they were a lot stronger as they were afterwords.

As far as your explanation of forgiveness... how? Specifically, how do I "break the emotion", "let it go", and "not let it hurt me". Especially that last one - much as I wish I were, I'm not a fictional character who can will away pain.

The rest of your post, though, excellent. What you say about repentance and making amends rings true. And I think what that couple did sounds amazing.

Honestly, trust is so difficult and terrifying to give someone in the first place that I think even with forgiveness it's something just this side of completely irreplaceable. Which I guess fits with what you and others have said about having to build new trust in a new relationship, but can that really be an adequate substitute for the original trust and relationship, especially with the emotional and memory-building investment that went into them now wasted and gone forever?

Ugh, I feel like I'm starting to sound like an emotionally-stunted manchild.

 

[fire_breeze]

As far as your explanation of forgiveness... how? Specifically, how do I "break the emotion", "let it go", and "not let it hurt me". Especially that last one - much as I wish I were, I'm not a fictional character who can will away pain.

The rest of your post, though, excellent. What you say about repentance and making amends rings true. And I think what that couple did sounds amazing.

Honestly, trust is so difficult and terrifying to give someone in the first place that I think even with forgiveness it's something just this side of completely irreplaceable. Which I guess fits with what you and others have said about having to build new trust in a new relationship, but can that really be an adequate substitute for the original trust and relationship, especially with the emotional and memory-building investment that went into them now wasted and gone forever?

Ugh, I feel like I'm starting to sound like an emotionally-stunted manchild.

I hope you don't mind if I interject a few words.

We live in a society where we feel like we need instant results. Forgiveness, like love and trust, is not instantaneous. As I do not fall in love the same way as you do, I will not forgive the same way as you will.

I recently had my trust broken by a good friend. It hurt and it has cut me beyond measure. I made the conscious decision to forgive the person because the alternative would be to wallow in anger.

It's not easy. When I begin to feel anger, or pain, I have to tell myself that I had forgiven the person. There is nothing for me to feel angry about. I cannot go back into the past. It's not, as you said, a fictional 'willing away'. No one can do that. It's a work in progress, just as building trust, or loving someone.

Holding onto anger is just as much as a decision and a choice as 'letting' it go. I don't want to live in anger - it's not worth my time. So I forgave the person, and moved on. If I haven't, that anger would have held me back - I could not move on with my life, regardless of whether or not the relationship (in this case, friendship) would have continued. Forgiveness is also just as much for me as it is for the person who broke my trust. Not forgiving means that I am punishing myself because I'm not giving myself the permission to move ahead.

In my case, this trust has been irrevocably broken. I have cut ties with this individual as I have realised that this person used me for his own ends and that this broken trust had potential dire consequences in my life, and this was unacceptable. However, I feel it's a lesson very well learned, and while I wish it never happened, I think I have grown and got my ass kicked a little. For me to grow, I need to forgive, because we all make mistakes. I recognise that, forgive it and move on.

Forgiveness, in my opinion, is the ultimate indication that I did not regret our friendship. Not forgiving (and remember, my friendship is over with the person), for me, means that I regret it. Forgiving someone is a wonderful marker of being a person, at least it does for me. It means that the person is not willing to be absorbed in anger, but rather is willing to walk away from it - however form that 'walking away' takes place (continuing the relationship or not).

I probably did not make any sense. I'm sure I didn't. I tried.

 

[hapigirl]

Holding onto anger is just as much as a decision and a choice as 'letting' it go. I don't want to live in anger - it's not worth my time. So I forgave the person, and moved on. If I haven't, that anger would have held me back - I could not move on with my life, regardless of whether or not the relationship (in this case, friendship) would have continued. Forgiveness is also just as much for me as it is for the person who broke my trust. Not forgiving means that I am punishing myself because I'm not giving myself the permission to move ahead.

In my case, this trust has been irrevocably broken. I have cut ties with this individual as I have realised that this person used me for his own ends and that this broken trust had potential dire consequences in my life, and this was unacceptable. However, I feel it's a lesson very well learned, and while I wish it never happened, I think I have grown and got my ass kicked a little. For me to grow, I need to forgive, because we all make mistakes. I recognise that, forgive it and move on.

Both of these paragraphs are so important. Forgiveness and rebuilding trust or relationships do not have to go hand in hand. I have forgiven people and not allowed them back into my life.

Forgiveness is about my inner-strength. Choosing to rebuild trust or not is about my discernment and wisdom in regards to the person or the situation.

If I am choosing to rebuild trust, forgiveness must come first.