Realism VS Fantasy

[Djmac1031]

For as much as I talk about "realism" in my comments, looking at my library of stories so far, the only thing I've written that's remained TRULY realistic is my Discovering Amy series, which is essentially the story of a young couple's first time fooling around.

My other series, The Jenna Arrangement, started off in the first chapter with a plausible scenario; something that could possibly happen. From there, while I've tried to keep a realistic tone to it, it's certainly branched out into scenarios far less likely to play out the same way in reality as they do in the story.

Of course, that's why we call it fiction, I suppose.

Everything else I've done is pure fantasy.

Hot women doctors don't milk their male patients' prostate. (The Doctor Is In...Me)

Store managers don't blackmail shoplifters into having rough sex. (A Karen Gets Her Comeuppance)

Cute sisters don't ask their brother for a cum facial to help cure their acne. (My Sister's Skincare)

Strangers don't fall in love after being kidnapped by aliens. (The White Room)

Women don't become undead cocksuckers. (Night Of The Giving Head)

And elves certainly aren't having drug fueled orgies at the North Pole. (Elves Gone Wild)

Still, I've done my humble (and amateurish) best to try to make you believe these things COULD happen.

I suppose my question is: Where do you draw the line between what's pure fantasy, and what's "realistic" fantasy?

Do you prefer a story that just gets right to the point?

Or one that takes it's time and tries to create a "realistic " scenario for things to happen?

Its a fine line sometimes. I've read many stories I felt were rushed and underdeveloped, that were simply trying to get to the sex scene.

I've also read others where the setup was far too long and dragged out, over complicated and over detailed, when it really could have just gotten right to the heart of it.

What it really boils down to for me is: characters.

If I like the characters, if I feel any kind of investment in them, I'll pretty much buy any other bullshit you try to sell me, no matter how outlandish.

So in the end that's what I try to focus on with my stories. Even in my craziest tales, I hope I've at least created a character or two that is at least interesting enough to keep a reader invested.

I'm curious how the rest of you see it.

 

[KeithD]

For me, the plot is the most important.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I suppose my question is: Where do you draw the line between what's pure fantasy, and what's "realistic" fantasy?

Why draw a line? A story should do what the story needs to do, which is surely determined one story at a time.

I have a writer's theory that if you anchor a story with a piece of absolute truth, however small, readers will sense it and be prepared to suspends million miles of disbelief. Every one of my stories, however fantastic, does that, and nobody has ever commented, that's not real.

 

[Djmac1031]

Why draw a line? A story should do what the story needs to do, which is surely determined one story at a time.

I have a writer's theory that if you anchor a story with a piece of absolute truth, however small, readers will sense it and be prepared to suspends million miles of disbelief. Every one of my stories, however fantastic, does that, and nobody has ever commented, that's not real.

I like that. Definitely a good point.

 

[Demiurging]

To be fair, drug-fueled orgies is very on brand for traditionally depicted elfs, if not specifically christmas elfs.

Expectations play a big part in a sense of realism; a reader with porn brain is going to be much less likely to have a problem so long as the strain on reality is in service to the point. As far as settings and plots without explicitly fantastic mechanics under the hood, I go with the mantra "weird shit happens in reality too".

But I do agree. If I'm invested in the characters, I'll put up with a whole hell of a lot from the plot just so I can follow them to the end. And in the opposite way, I'll drop an otherwise great plot because I despise the characters.

 

[JGittes]

I'll donate £10 to your favorite charity if you can list 100 science fiction stories, written or filmed, that are real.

Keep in mind that only 12 humans have walked on the moon and 24 circled it, 50 years ago. I'm nearly 70 and am as certain that I won't see humans go to Mars as I am that the sky is blue. Time travel is impossible or we'd be overrun by time travel tourists buying Apple or Facebook or Tesla on IPO. Don't get me started about space aliens.

It's all fiction, absolutely stark raving mad fiction, but seems to fuel the world's largest and most profitable entertainment conglomerate, just fine.

Here's my complete list.

Space Cowboys
Apollo 13 (and that's not fiction, at least not entirely)

This is nothing against SF. I love it. But worring about something being not real in fiction is beside the point.

 

[windar]

For me it's characters. I've written a number of series with recurring characters and even after I've grown a bit tired of them, people ask when I'm going to do another eposide with them. There's nothing unusual about that. What is most of TV besides series where recurring characters get into different situations? That's true of both comedy and drama. It's true of Hollywood today, where the sequel is king. It's true, certainly, in crime fiction from Sherlock Holmes on. And the recurring characters don't all have to be likable. Some can be dislikable as long as it's in interesting ways.

As for plots, I'm sure you could poke holes in most of mine. Hell, I can poke holes in most of them. But you could do that with almost any plot that wasn't so pedestrian as to be boring, including those written by best-selling and/or highly regarded authors.

 

[Djmac1031]

For me realistic isn't as important as believable. And, believability is dependent on the world the author has set up for me with the story.

Have a type of bat or wolf that turns human one day every century in order to procreate with a human and birth a vampire or werewolf? I'd read it.

A wayward group of people get stuck on an island and can't make a raft to escape because the flora isn't real (but still grows fruit and berries seemingly right when needed and in sufficient quantities for the people who are shipwrecked) and there's an odd sensation of being watched constantly? I can get behind it.

A headstrong and controlling woman becomes the office bimbo fuck bunny because a typical office jockey of a guy winked at her? That's where you lose me.

It doesn't have to be realistic for me. It just needs to be believable within the bounds of your characters and setting. For that last example, an experiment being done on Type-A personalities to reduce inhibitions and increase sex drive would build up believability for me. Or her simply wanting to fuck everyone in the office without dumbing her down to accomplish it.

Same with the castaways. Have the island be a real island with materials that could roughly construct a raft but no one ever tries and my interest is gonna plummet fast through sheer annoyance.

Realistic stories can be nice. But even unrealistic stories can be made to come across as believable with a little effort.

There ya go. I suppose BELIEVABLE is probably the better word than "realistic."

Because I agree on all points completely

 

[windar]

Store managers don't blackmail shoplifters into having rough sex. (A Karen Gets Her Comeuppance)

That one I have to give a "very possibly did happen at some time or another". There've certainly been sex scandals involving cops, so why not a store manager?

 

[MelissaBaby]

I think the word we're looking for here is "verisimilitude"; having the appearance of truth.

Erozetta's examples are good. We can accept the wildest concepts if they have the semblance of truth within the world the author has created.

The werebat seems plausible within its world, the office bimbo does not seem plausible in hers.

Even true events can lack verisimilitude. If you had written a novel describing the Manson murders or Jonestown before the real events occurred, you likely would have been rejected by publishers who said they were unrealistic. So, yeah, somewhere in the real world, some bossy office manager has subbed to the janitor, but it won't seem realistic to a lot of readers. Fortunately, people are pretty good at suspending their disbelief.

 

[Bramblethorn]

A lot of the time when people complain about lack of "realism", they're really talking about something else.

If I write a story about somebody who loses his job, and then his kid gets sick and needs an expensive operation, and then his house burns down - and then in the very last chapter he wins the lottery and gets enough money to solve his problems - readers might complain that it's an "unrealistic" ending.

But if I write a story that squeezes all that into chapter 1, and then spends the rest of the story exploring what happens after the lottery win (does money create new problems?) that's less likely to draw complaints.

The difference isn't really in the "realism" of the lottery win. It's that in the first example it's being used as a lazy shortcut to resolve his challenges, and in the second it's being used to set up challenges that money can't solve.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think MelissaBaby hit the nail on the head. The key isn't realism, it's verisimilitude -- the appearance of reality.

My philosophy is that realism isn't needed at all. There are limits, however, on how much fantasy a good story can handle. My philosophy on this issue amounts to three things:

1. Limit the magic. Readers will suspend disbelief about one thing -- almost anything -- if it's handled skillfully. But they may not suspend disbelief about more than one thing. Keep the magic limited.

2. Once something magic is introduced, stick with it. Abide by the logical consequences of that magic, whatever it is. Keep your story consistent with the fantasy world you have created.

3. Make other aspects of the story seem normal, consistent with everyday life. Play up the normal, real aspects.

 

[TadOverdon]

a reader with porn brain is going to be much less likely to have a problem so long as the strain on reality is in service to the point. .

This.


I write fantasy. I don't think in terms of realism as much as "plausibility in the moment," and I play fast and loose even with that.

If someone's looking for a story to get them off, which is what I'm writing, IMHO they'll forgive a lot as long as it punches their buttons.

You can call that an excuse for laziness, but as far as I can tell it's how the MCU works. LOL

 

[rescatooor]

Some people just can't suspend their disbelief. They look at Toy Story and think "what, toys aren't living organism, they should shut the fuck up."

I have had people contact me about my latest story being unrealistic and it's always a different reason. (By the way, if you have reached out to me about it, thank you!) Most of them still enjoyed it, it seems. But you can clearly see that people are fairly unique on their limits.

There is nothing wrong with pure fantasy either. I have one story that maybe was a bit too testy for some (The Tea Grew Cold). It says something that it's based on a dream I had once around Christmas time. It might have been better to just use straight up dream logic for the entirety of it. But even then, I think it still would have gone over many peoples heads. It has a fair bit of favourites so I can't complain. Still I understand it doesn't have the coveted "H" but then again, many good stories don't.

 

[SimonDoom]

Some people just can't suspend their disbelief. .

You're right, and you can't worry about these readers. There are some readers who are very picky about what they'll suspend disbelief about, and what they won't. They'll find a niggling detail you never thought about that prevents them from enjoying the story. There's no way to craft a story that makes it acceptable to all such readers, so you are better off not trying.

 

[TadOverdon]

"Took me right out of the story" is a critical phrase that makes me cringe.

It seems always to be attached to some trivial and often idiosyncratic complaint such as "I don't know any adult who buttons their shirt from the top down rather than starting at the bottom the way my mother taught me. Took me right out of the story."

 

[SimonDoom]

"Took me right out of the story" is a critical phrase that makes me cringe.

It seems always to be attached to some trivial and often idiosyncratic complaint such as "I don't know any adult who buttons their shirt from the top down rather than starting at the bottom the way my mother taught me. Took me right out of the story."

Me, too, although I will admit that this happens to me as well sometimes when I read a story.

People read erotic stories not just to enjoy a story, but to be aroused. And what arouses a person is very peculiar to that person.

I can enjoy a story based on almost any premise, no matter how fanciful and ridiculous. But if the author keeps piling on the improbabilities, they'll probably lose me. This is why I try to stick to the "one magic" philosophy of story-writing. I know that as a reader I can't handle too much magic. I roll my eyes and move on.

 

[TadOverdon]

Oh, I agree that an errant detail can break my suspension of disbelief on occasion. It's just that phrase. It reads as rote and aggressively dismissive to me.

 

[NotWise]

I try to keep settings realistic, while I let the stories wander. Reader's complaints about implausibility are rare.

Fantastic stories are pretty common in I/T. In one of mine, a cougar materializes from a petroglyph to save the protagonists, who are stalked by a shape-shifter and protected by a cadre of beast gods, while at the same time they're sharing ancestral memories of lives past. In another, the sister pursues perfection until she transcends this world.

The one that probably confused readers the most (my only First Time story) originated as a dream, and I kept a lot of dream-like qualities in the story.

Of course, then there are the ghost stories in two categories and the outright fantasies in SF/F.

I've had more complaints about complicated characters who weren't fully explained than I've had about fantastic story lines. There's a certain amount of fantasy inherent in a lot of erotica, and readers seem to embrace that and more.

Honestly, I enjoy writing fantasy in realistic settings--it's almost like, "Hey, this could really happen."

 

[TadOverdon]

Porn is chock full of fantasy biology in addition to a lot that's just erroneous and superstitious.

 

[MrPixel]

I don't worry this angle too much. Most of my stories are drawn from real life first- or secondhand experience, and even the fiction series "Off Campus" is plausible fantasy keyed from having occasional contact with the swinger community. My wife and I are social nudists, Freikörperkultur (FKK) style, so we know all about the "after dark" nonsense at most of these resorts, even the ones that call themselves "family friendly".

That's the key for me, swingers. Makes the writing easy. Some of the stuff I portray in the stories seems really "out there", but if you've never had the chance to be with or around this little subset of our society, you probably don't have any basis to know that some really crazy shit goes on in these circles. When capturing this in my stories, I've tamped down a lot of the nuttier stuff!

 

[8letters]

Me, too, although I will admit that this happens to me as well sometimes when I read a story.

People read erotic stories not just to enjoy a story, but to be aroused. And what arouses a person is very peculiar to that person.

I can enjoy a story based on almost any premise, no matter how fanciful and ridiculous. But if the author keeps piling on the improbabilities, they'll probably lose me. This is why I try to stick to the "one magic" philosophy of story-writing. I know that as a reader I can't handle too much magic. I roll my eyes and move on.

Have you ever heard of Warm Fuzzies and Cold Pricklies? (link). To me, readers are looking to get Warm Fuzzies from the story. Give them a Cold Prickly, and they'll be disappointed but will keep reading. Give them too many Cold Pricklies, particularly if you aren't giving them a lot of Warm Fuzzies, and they'll stop reading your story. Improbabilities are Cold Pricklies, but lots of other things can be Cold Pricklies. In one of my stories, I discuss Positive Consent a lot, and that was a Cold Prickly to a whole bunch of readers.

 

[windar]

In one of mine, a cougar materializes from a petroglyph to save the protagonists

Is that cougar as in mountain lion or cougar as in older woman who seduces younger men??

 

[Lifestyle66]

...
Where do you draw the line between what's pure fantasy, and what's "realistic" fantasy?

Do you prefer a story that just gets right to the point?

Or one that takes it's time and tries to create a "realistic " scenario for things to happen?
....

IMO, fiction isn't about the story being unreal. It depends on how you build the story/scene/situation. But things which cannot or do not happen detract from a story, and I'll lose interest.

In the case of science fiction, readers become attached to a story building a new universe. Star Trek was popular because they kept their science fiction consistent, thus becoming a new reality for the dedicated viewers. If they changed their futuristic science from one episode to the next, they would confuse and alienate viewers.

In the case of some contemporary action movies, I look at weapons and things which usually detract. Rambo, for example wearing tight jeans and no shirt, yet pulling an endless supply of fist-size 40-mm grenades to continue shooting is unbelievable.

In contemporary scenes of sex, people must understand and relate to the potential reality of the scene. The more the characters and scene deviates from what they believe is possible, the more you'll alienate readers.

This is why we probably have such 1-bombing issues with the LW readers: They can't BELIEVE husbands would enjoy their wives fucking other guys.


I prefer stories which create realistic scenarios, and those which lean toward my tastes in reality.

If a story starts with a wife casually walking past her husband to go out on a date with another guy, that's too unreal at the start. It must start with building their characters as to why either of them would get into that scene. Then I would accept it and read on. But even after explaining their stag/vixen relationship, the LW readers will still 1-bomb it and leave nasty comments.

So, pick your target audience, and ignore the haters.

 

[SimonDoom]

To give an example, my latest story is about a teddy bear that mysteriously shows up on a woman's door step one day. It says certain things to the woman unexpectedly, and she has sexual encounters with it. No explanation of the toy bear's abilities is ever given. It's an absurdist erotic story, like Kafka's Metamorphosis (I'm not comparing myself to Kafka). I thought some would like it and some would hate it, so I had no expectations for the score, but it turned out to be my all-time highest-rated story. I kept it short and didn't pile on additional magic beyond the teddy bear itself. Readers seemed OK with that.