Real people, real events

[CharleyH]

In writing an historical event ... what are the rules of using actual transcript dialogue? I heard it was a free for all because there are no actual copyrights.

What about biographical accounts of that one particular event? Does that require copyright because it's that authors account, even if two other POV accounts have the same or similar dialogue?

In which case, for historical accuracy about well known events, would you change the dialogue completely, or let it flow on a similar theme in keeping with history?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I don't know the answer, but it's a very good question. Do we own the copyright of our own spoken word? I know (I think?) we do in interviews, speeches, or when it is recorded or transmitted over the radio or television, but what if someone overhears us on the street and write it down? Do we still own those words, do the people who wrote down that accurate or not so accurate transcript, or are they public domain?

 

[CharleyH]

I don't know the answer, but it's a very good question. Do we own the copyright of our own spoken word? I know (I think?) we do in interviews, speeches, or when it is recorded or transmitted over the radio or television, but what if someone overhears us on the street and write it down? Do we still own those words, do the people who wrote down that accurate or not so accurate transcript, or are they public domain?

An accurate transcript from a court house ... example ... how about our posts here on Lit? They are not exactly copyrighted. Public forums, IMs .... but mostly transcripts and tri-bio accounts.

 

[Samandiriel]

maybe this might give you some idea?

 

[Samandiriel]

US copyright laws

 

[CharleyH]

maybe this might give you some idea?

Thanks Sam. Well, I am well familiar with intellectual property laws ... so really, I am just throwing the question out. I was less certain about transcripts, and it may be different where you are. Transcripts, to me, are like media releases - up for grabs. Back in 1990 a friend of mine found a transcript in a popular magazine, reprinted word for word from the original. It was actually a police interrogation transcript ... still. He used it and made a film, which was picked up. No problems, and yet, like your link, I have heard of problems with transcripts. YET - again, they are not copyrighted materials.

SO - do you take the chance, or do you re-write it?

 

[Samandiriel]

Thanks Sam. Well, I am well familiar with intellectual property laws ... so really, I am just throwing the question out. I was less certain about transcripts, and it may be different where you are. Transcripts, to me, are like media releases - up for grabs. Back in 1990 a friend of mine found a transcript in a popular magazine, reprinted word for word from the original. It was actually a police interrogation transcript ... still. He used it and made a film, which was picked up. No problems, and yet, like your link, I have heard of problems with transcripts. YET - again, they are not copyrighted materials.

SO - do you take the chance, or do you re-write it?

Personally, I would take the chance if your aim is to be accurate. If you're going to quote someone from a transcript then wouldn't you want to have exactly what they have stated?

where are all the damn lawyers out there?

 

[R. Richard]

I don't know the answer, but it's a very good question. Do we own the copyright of our own spoken word? I know (I think?) we do in interviews, speeches, or when it is recorded or transmitted over the radio or television, but what if someone overhears us on the street and write it down? Do we still own those words, do the people who wrote down that accurate or not so accurate transcript, or are they public domain?

Spoken word is not protected. HOWEVER, if the spoken word is original and recorded or written down, then the transcript is protected.

There are people who make their whole living litigating copyrights and I am not one of them. However, a key element of copyright is creativity. If I write down a list of Farenheit temperatures and the corresponding Celsius temperatures, that work is not copyrightable. However, if I create a single paragraph of written literary work, that is copyrightable.

 

[CharleyH]

Spoken word is not protected. HOWEVER, if the spoken word is original and recorded or written down, then the transcript is protected.

There are people who make their whole living litigating copyrights and I am not one of them. However, a key element of copyright is creativity. If I write down a list of Farenheit temperatures and the corresponding Celsius temperatures, that work is not copyrightable. However, if I create a single paragraph of written literary work, that is copyrightable.

Our laws (Canada) on this issue are really lax in comparison to the states. And yes, creativity is an important part of intellectual property, as are many thing, however, proof is a more part - date is specifically a part. This is not the issue, though.

In a trial for example, which is in effect a public document unless banned, no? What is usable? Similarly, in a post for example, and merely to extend the thought ... is it not a public document since you know you are posting publically, and have not put a copyright purchase on it?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Charley, every word you post on any bulletin board is protected by copyright laws, whether or not it has a copyright notice appended.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Spoken word is not protected. HOWEVER, if the spoken word is original and recorded or written down, then the transcript is protected.

There are people who make their whole living litigating copyrights and I am not one of them. However, a key element of copyright is creativity. If I write down a list of Farenheit temperatures and the corresponding Celsius temperatures, that work is not copyrightable. However, if I create a single paragraph of written literary work, that is copyrightable.

Aren't those two paragraphs contradictory? If I am speaking on any subject with a friend, I am the one creating (on-the-fly) the speech. If my friend limits him or herself to transcribe, word-by-word, all I say, then why should his or her work be protected over my own?

And what if instead of one friend there are 20 people, each of them writing down everything I say? There would be 20 transcripts, ideally all alike, and each of them individually protected by copyright, even if they're not unique?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

maybe this might give you some idea?

That refers to dialogue transcripts of a television series, which was obviously protected by copyright. It's not exactly the same thing as court transcriptions, or transcriptions of a conversation two people may have on the street...

 

[Liar]

Over here, all public record (and non-classified court transcriptions fall into that category) are PD. Documented historical events depends on the original publication of the documentation. If that's older than X years, it's PD. Documented recent events, through fast mass media (TV, radio, papers...) gives authors, scientists and journalists exteded quotation rights, which means an author can use events described in news media without crediting the publication.

I think it wouks pretty much the same in most of Europe and wouldn't be surprised if you had somewhat the same legislation in your hood. But don't take my word for it, if you are that very concerned with copyrights.

 

[CharleyH]

Over here, all public record (and non-classified court transcriptions fall into that category) are PD. Documented historical events depends on the original publication of the documentation. If that's older than X years, it's PD. Documented recent events, through fast mass media (TV, radio, papers...) gives authors, scientists and journalists exteded quotation rights, which means an author can use events described in news media without crediting the publication.

I think it works pretty much the same in most of Europe and I wouldn't be surprised if we had somewhat the same legislation . But don't take my word for it. Please define PD for those not in the know.

What is x years? I thought 50? A TRANSCRIPT? Can you as a playwrite, example, use it? I know you say so, but in every country?

 

[Liar]

Please define PD for those not in the know.

Public Domain.

What is x years? I thought 50?

Fink so, yes.

A TRANSCRIPT? Can you as a playwrite, example, use it? I know you say so, but in every country?

I only know for sure in my country, but yes, to some extent, I can. I haven't dug into exactlyhow far I can go there, because I really haven't had a reason to, but documented public speeches, debate transcripts, official letters and bulletioms of recent years as well as more private events of historical value written in older books (50 yers I think) are up for grabs.

 

[CharleyH]

Charley, every word you post on any bulletin board is protected by copyright laws, whether or not it has a copyright notice appended.

Sure, for a million bucks, sweet. How is this. I will use you, and see if you can sue me?

 

[CharleyH]

Public Domain.

Fink so, yes.
I only know for sure in my country, but yes, to some extent, I can. I haven't dug into exactlyhow far I can go there, because I really haven't had a reason to, but documented public speeches, debate transcripts, official letters and bulletioms of recent years as well as more private events of historical value written in older books (50 yers I think) are up for grabs.

Thanks, L.

 

[CharleyH]

bumpety bump

 

[neonlyte]

Sure, for a million bucks, sweet. How is this. I will use you, and see if you can sue me?

You don't get an offer like that every day

One of my longer works is set around a true story in the early 1990's. I've read huge numbers of press reports about the event(s) and two books that include transcript conversations with the protagonists. There is no 'confessional' account of what actually happened (a series of church burnings) though people are in prison for carrying out related deeds - two murders. The account I have written is a fictional account of a specific event - a church burning - using the characters charged and imprisoned for the murders + 1 fictional character.

No one has ever been charged with the church burnings through lack of evidence though several of the characters have admitted taking part whilst remaining vague enough ofver timing and location to avoid prosecution. The words the characters use are mine but are based upon statements, music lyrics and propaganda articles produced by the protagonists. I have no idea what my legal position might be but take the view that to challenge my account exposes the characters to possible prosecution.

The protagonists themselves used assumed fictional names when carrying out these acts and were publically known by these names, I use the same fictional names in my story, they are in the public domain.

 

[ishtat]

I think it works pretty much the same in most of Europe and I wouldn't be surprised if we had somewhat the same legislation . But don't take my word for it. Please define PD for those not in the know.

What is x years? I thought 50? A TRANSCRIPT? Can you as a playwrite, example, use it? I know you say so, but in every country?

I think that X is 75 years with regard to some US intellectual property.Generally US law is much tougher than Europe and very much tougher than Asia where rights to intellectual property are ignored as often as not.

You need to be at least as careful of big dollars as the law itself. If you get offside with a major corporation they may take action against you even if they know their case is weak (for purely commercial reasons).This seems particularly true of some in the entertainment industry.

People in non US jurisdictions need to note that whilst the Law may be relatively lax in their country The US as a matter of course writes in their intellectual property law into trade agreements. Without going into the technicalities that can at least in theory allow US intellectual property owners to pursue foreign
infringers even if it may appear that the specific legislation in their countries may protect them.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Copyrights aside, I think if you took dialogue from a transcript or other public record and used it in a creative work without acknowledgement, you'd at least be guilty of plagiarism or misrepresentation.

Plagiarism isn't necessarily a crime, of course, but it is an ethical lapse and your integrity and reputation would suffer if you were found out.

The key is acknowledging the source. Foisting off something you haven't created under the guise that you did is more or less unethical. I think it's okay to hear someone on the street call someone else a "beetle-dicked bug-fucker" and use that in a story, but to take an entire transcript--that's something else.

 

[Guest]

In writing an historical event ...

Why?

You are not very good at it, though.