Ready To Improve

Chicklet

plays well with self
Joined
Apr 8, 2002
Posts
12,302
Okay everyone, I have just submitted my 49th story to Literotica. Although I *know* my work is not complete shit, I am frustrated by the knowledge that I am not IMPROVING.

Sometimes I think that it doesn't matter if I improve; this is just erotica, it's just for fun, and it doesn't bother me not to be the best, afterall. But it *does* bother me, and I want some help improving my work.

Please, no one tell me I'm too wordy. The first time I asked for feedback someone cut my story in half, and had the balls to post their edited version on here. I don't want to be humiliated - if you do decide to read some of my stuff and give me a hand, then please email me rather than tearing me up in front of everyone else.

What I'm looking for: Well, I don't rightly know. Maybe I'll edit this later with some more ideas. Here are a few stories I'd like to represent me, as my best work. In *my* opinion, that is.

Chicklet



Megan & Julie

Room Three Sixty Six

Private Lessons
 
Wordy

Ok, Chicklet, I won't say you're too wordy. I won't say your're too anything. What YOU have to decide is what do actually WANT to improve in your writing?

If you just think in the abstact, saying "I just want to IMPROVE at writing", that won't help you, and it won't give anyone an idea of how you should be helped.

Okay. Turn it around. Why not ask a PARTICULAR author on this site that you admire to critique your stuff, and to tell you what they as authors do that you don't, or what they DONT do that you do.

I've read one of your unfinished stories in a lot of detail, which you mailed to me to suggest endings. I can tell you what I think you need to do to improve, if YOU tell ME what it is you want to change.

You mentioned in a couple of posts recently that you're "stuck for ideas", as though you have a general block going on. Now you're saying you're sort of stuck for ideas on what to improve.

I'm sorry Chicklet, you have to get a little specific.

One thing I would say is I noticed in your unfinsihed story about the frustrated girl with the dildo. You had a lot of sweetness and fluffiness going on, so I made suggestions that tried to keep the mood of the story light -- I thought you were into that. Then you post that the guy is the same guy who's having a gay affair on the side in another story! SO why did not one HINT of that come across in the 5,000 words you'd already written? That would have given your story a lot more direction.

I think you don't really structure your stories, because you get off on the act of writing so much that you just don't really want to. To me your writing sometimes looks like you sit and write and write, and see what comes out. This can lead to meandering in a story, then stalling altogether.


49 stories is a hell of a lot of stories! You must really like writing! I actually think this is part of the thing you need to improve. Maybe write less, and take more time over them.

My original suggestion to you is that you write your stories TOP DOWN. Structure the thing out a little before you start, beginning to end. THEN write.

So my basic suggestion to improve is is for you to FIRST write a story synopsis, print it out, READ it, and only after that should you start to write.
 
I do love to write. That's why I have so much stuff up. I like to write therefore I write a whole lot. I don't know how to structure a story or write an outline, plain and simple. Whenever I try I end up giving up on the story before I finish.

About my character being cheated on in my unfinished story. When I started that story I didn't know he was cheating on her...I ended up just using the same characters in another story that I *did* finish. I am using the theme in my story that I hope to have finished eventually, though, and it will be more important. (the cheating theme that is)

What do I want to improve? Maybe my style? Hmm...it's hard to actually point out what I want to improve. I want my stories to be more exciting. I want people to enjoy them. I don't know how to do this I guess I hoped that someone could say OH, You just need to do this!

Sorry for the waste of space.

Chicklet
 
Dear Chicklet,

I read this post yesterday and thought seriously about what I thought in terms of a response. But I didn't post.
I came back to it today, and was sure I'd have the same feelings (my feelings were, 'don't respond because you have a tendency to come across as harsh and this lady won't take it well) but then I see Joe's post, and I think, okay. Say what you wanted to say but try to make it as positive as possible.
So....
I’m going to refer to your post the way I would a story, and reply piece by piece. You start by saying you’ve just submitted your 49th story to Lit. I did a double take.
49??????? Oooookay, I’m wondering why so many. Joe says in his reply that “...you get off on the act of writing...” so much that you aren’t interested in worrying about the more structural, technical aspects. I tend to agree. It sounds as if you’re trying to be prolific without being specific (no punny-ness intended). You just want to write. But to echo Joe, you must ask yourself whether you just want to write, or whether you want to write WELL. Personally, I never outline, never decide before I start a story where it’s going to end up because I believe that when created well, the characters in your story will take the lead you give them and flesh it out themselves. So while Joe recommends it, that’s a personal thing. What works for him may not work for me. Or you.
Writer’s block, to me, is nothing more than a writer trying to push characters into going somewhere they don’t want to. EVERY time I get “blocked” on a story, I put it aside and go back to it days, sometimes weeks, later, and I find that in the last 2 or 5 or 10 pages I’ve tried to get the characters to do or say or be something that is not true to their personalities. I then go back to the point where I last felt the story was flowing well, and try to figure out where I branched off wrong. It’s worked every time. Of course, it also takes me months to post a story at Lit because I have two jobs and four kids, a life, and I’m very particular about what I post. In all honesty, and without any judgement I wondered after reading your post if you really care about the quality of what you are posting, or if you just like posting. That takes me to what you say next:
“...I *know* my work is not complete shit...” In all humility and to be straight with you, dear, if all I could think to say about my erotica was that it’s not complete shit (which, in case you didn’t notice, implies that it is partly shit), then I would not submit anything at all. That statement just floors me. Clearly, it says to me that you don’t care about the work itself. You then say, “...I am frustrated by the knowledge that I am not IMPROVING.” Define “improving”. You don’t say you are frustrated that the writing is not improving (although you could argue that is what you were implying, and maybe it’s just the therapist in me) but it would appear as if you are trying to accomplish something within yourself through the act of writing, and maybe it’s you that is frustrating you, and not the work.
“Sometimes I think that it doesn’t matter if I improve...” Again, this confirms my thinking that it isn’t being a writer that you’re after. I don’t know any writer who isn’t always wanting to improve their work.
“...this is just erotica, it’s just for fun, and it doesn’t bother me not to be the best, afterall. But it does bother me and I want some help improving my work.” One has to wonder why you describe your thoughts that it doesn’t matter and then say oh, but it does. After reading this, my first thought was that you protest too much.
“Please no one tell me I’m too wordy.” Why not? What if you ARE wordy? We’re not allowed to say it because you don’t want to hear it? Is that fair? Either ask for critique or don’t, but don’t ask for it then tell us what we’re allowed to tell you. I am sorry about your experience with the person who stole from you. I hope you had him/her dealt with.
“I don’t want to be humiliated - if you do decide to read some of my stuff and give me a hand, then please email me rather than tearing me up in front of everyone else.” So...if our critique/opinion is negative we should email it to you, but if it’s positive, we can post it here? Again, dear, if you want to write you’re going to have to grow thicker skin than that. I know that often I come across as harsh in critique, but believe me, Excellence is what I want to push for, and I assume that if someone here asks for advice, they want to know what, in MY opinion, will push them there as well. So I tell them. You don’t have to believe me. Or like me. Or accept what I say. It’s simply given BECAUSE YOU ASKED FOR IT. If you don’t want it, don’t ask. You can’t pick and choose my opinion, but you CAN throw it out or respond to it with thoughtful debate, and that’s why I post on the Board. In short, I think that if you can’t take the heat, well....you know the rest.
Finally, you say you don’t know what you’re looking for. It sounds like you’re just aimlessly wandering and want us to “help” you with that. You have to do that part yourself, to a great extent, first by knowing what it is you want.
You know, I just noticed that you, in addition to having 49 stories, post 20 times a day, for a whopping 3,000+ posts. You’re only 21 for goodness sake. Go out and connect with the world...don’t make this your primary outlet for writing, social commentary and so forth. I hate to use the phrase “get a life” because it sounds harsh (and you know I admit to that, and try to avoid it if possible) but if you work/go to school or something, and you clearly do this a LOT, what else is in your life?
I just went to look at your lit page...you are a very pretty, very sweet looking YOUNG lady in a Care Bear shirt. You hardly look older than my 13 year old. Get away from the computer. You can always come back to it. I sincerely wish you the best.

ladyp
 
Chicklet, althoug ladyp may have a point about not getting Lit obsessed ( some of us had no life anyway), I would miss your posts and your stories. I think you write at a high level.Although I don't put faith in bvote scores, what sort do you get?

I do agree we can help if you say what you want to improve. For instance, if you want to work on narrative, plotting before writing helps. Characterization improves just by disciplining yourself to sketch the character before the scene. you might or might not include it in the story. But it will ienrich your characters, "improve" the stories. Most of my characters are reality based, so I skip that step.
If you want to improve descriptiveness, try making yourself write a descriptive mood to start the story, and maintain it in each para graph.
I benefitted when I wrote my " At the supermarket " story in one rush. I did that because you said how fast you write. Maybe now you need to slow down. Write a paragraph or two at a time.

if you think you are too wordy, edit out every second adjective, every conjunction, and turn all compound sentences into two. If that's too choppy, then revise backwards.

In "Room ", I wanted dialogue sooner. when you use dialogue, you can cut out words. I found the description of the cross dressing fascinating, but at the same time, too long.

" Private Lessons" is one of my favourite stories, but even then, I find the description of the prof too much, and want the dialogue sooner. Perhaps you might try moving the description to after the action starts. If it started at the " Ahem", had those three paras then went to where you start, it might be a faster grab.

Other than that, I suggest you read a lot, bith books and Lit authours you admire. "Most Read" and " Highest Votes" might help you sample others. Perhaps ask them to edit a draft.

Both in number of stories and number of words, less is more.

Hate me yet?;)
 
Three pieces of advice before I get into your story. Be aware that I don't follow the first one at all, in the least, or even acknowledge it when it comes to the stuff I post on this site. I have the extraordinarily nasty, icky tendancy to write it and submit it. Sometimes without even a spell check.

After you write it, let it sit for a week or two before opening it back up, and then edit it. A good rule of thumb is to remove 10 percent of the total word count. Yes, you have too many words. (we all do). Do NOT edit as you go. You can't get a good hold on present if you're constantly nitpicking at the past. This isn't a good way to get things done.

Define improvement. Do you want to be a better writer or a better porno writer. What you need to change varies. A better writer is more interested in writing itself and a better porno writer is more interested in writing the sex to make it hotter. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive, but porno is necessarily expository and good writing and exposition do not go hand in hand. They're like oil and water. They work well when you shake it up, but not all the time.

Read. A lot. If you want to write better porno, read a lot of porno. Find out what combinations of words and fantasies come together to make the best sex scene. If you want to write better writing, you can skip the Penthouse letters porno and head on to other sites.

I did the second one so here goes. Don't hurt me, these are just my honest opinions.

Your plot, well, really isn't. You don't really establish a conflict. "He would be leaving his house as his ordinary self, but when he came back, he was sure he would be changed forever." This is where you establish the premise of the story. This is what's going to happen. He's going to change. I notice that he's afraid here. You did some work to establish that he was nervous or afraid, but you never bore it the self vs. self conflict. I know that he went from being nervous into being more confident, sort of. Your character changed, but you reserved the last line for the change. Good erotica has the character change as he overcomes obstacles. Yours had not obstacles to overcome. Yeah, there was the nervousness, never did it before, but they weren't obstacles. They weren't a problem.

Here's a porno v. erotica difference. Porno doesn't really need a conflict. It can have one and it's nicer that way, but there's no need for it because you're not writing about a person, you're writing about sex. Erotica requires conflict and resolution. This is not a value judgment on either one. This is merely notation of the difference. Porno is just as good as erotica. They are just different and the goals of the writer are different. I'm assuming you wanted to improve your writing, not your sex.

Because you have no conflict, you have no conflict resolution or very much character development. Sad, but true. You did some nice work with Justin. We did get to see him be a three dimensional character and he did have a nice solid "this is a real guy" feel to him. However, the best development comes through conflict. This is where we really see the guy, when he has an obstacle that he has to overcome. You've got a few ready mades with the story. He's committing adultery (this didn't bother him?), he's entering into a brand new lifestyle that's not manly (he wasn't bothered by the "real men don't wear panties" notion?). I think you can see what I mean. He put on make-up and other than some nervousness, nothing.

Conflict is about creating tension. I can see that you tried to use a device to create that tension, but it didn't really work out. That's the car thing.

Justin took a deep breath before stepping out of the door. Amy was out of town for the weekend, so he didn’t have to worry about her coming home and finding him gone. Hoisting the backpack over his shoulder, he slammed the door behind him, walking confidently towards the blue Toyota in the driveway. His keys were out and ready to unlock the door, and he threw the backpack into the passenger seat. Sitting down, he put his hands on the wheel, and took another deep breath.

Most people would say that this was the stupidest thing Justin had done in his whole sensible life. But no one was going to have the chance to voice that opinion since only one other person would ever know. Placing the key in the ignition, Justin turned on the car, music flooding the vehicle as he waited for the car to warm up a bit.


Every bit about the car is extraneous. Why? We don't have enough information about Justin for the pauses with the car to have any impact. Dramatic pauses, like "Hoisting the backpack over his shoulder, he slammed the door behind him, walking confidently towards the blue Toyota in the driveway." require that we have something dramatic happening around them in order to make them effective. "Justin took a deep breath before stepping out of the door. Amy was out of town for the weekend, so he didn’t have to worry about her coming home and finding him gone. " Is not dramatic, it's almost exposition because there's no reader rapport built in yet. "Justing took a deep breath" has meaning, but not enough to create the drama you're looking for. So the "Hoisting the backpack..." sentence is not a dramatic pause, nor does it create tension. It's just too much information.

Another interesting thing that I noted was the backpack. It's in the story a few times, but you never made the use of it. It's a pretty strong symbol of what's going on. Everything that changes his life is in that backpack. He's what he was before, then he opens the backpack and changes. It's a strong symbol and you could make use of it by giving it a more important role.

Justin slowly pushed himself up, his blonde hair ruffled where it had rubbed against his arms. He looked almost like a little boy as he walked over to the bag.

With quivering fingers Justin unzipped his bag, opening it and pulling out a few of the items. He blushed as he saw the lingerie, items that no one had ever seen him wear. Slowly, he turned around, holding up a pair of red panties so that Craig could see them.


This is the pivotal moment in your story. Justin goes from what he was into what he's going to be. This is where the change occurs. This is, from a plot perspective, disappointing. Your tribute to conflict is quivering fingers and a blush. From a pornographic perspective it's nicely done. As you can see, there's a need to for you to define your writing goals in order to make that improvement.

He felt like a different person, a better person, and hoped that this wouldn’t be the last experience he had with his new lover. This is the sum and total of your resolution. It's a nice ending if pornography is your aim because it ties everything up very well and it gives a comforting hint about what is to come. It resonates nicely with the thesis. From a plot perspective, it's a little different. Primarily because you didn't establish a conflict, so you can't have conflict resolution. Instead, this feels like it is more of an attempt to establish and resolve the conflict all at the same time.

I liked your characters for the most part. You did a good job at giving them dimension. You also did a good job keeping them believable. They never did anything that just didn't make any sense. You had a POV problem that stems from the use of proper names. It's hard to write when a pronoun can refer to more than one character. However, you began with Justin and kept switching on and off with the narrator. This really shouldn't happen in a short story. If you're going to introduce the narrator as a character--that essentially means there is an offered opinion on anything--then the narrator should be the one doing all of the talking.

Take these two sentences: Justin slowly pushed himself up, his blonde hair ruffled where it had rubbed against his arms. He looked almost like a little boy as he walked over to the bag.

This is not Justin speaking. It's not Craig either because we're obstensibly perched with Justin through the entire thing. We're not, right now. We're with the narrator and the narrator is editorializing. This is enough to make the narrator a character, that is a noticable person, to the reader. "He looked almost like a little boy." The narrator is telling us what s/he thinks Justin looked like. Why? Justin would not say/think "He looked almost like...." Justin would say/think something along the lines of "He felt almost like..." or "Craig probably thought that he looked almost like...."

My personal opinion on narrators is that you either use them throughout the entire story (Rumple Foreskin has excellent examples of this) or you don't use them at all. Obviously there are exceptions, such as when the narrator really is a character irregardless (I don't care if it's not a word) of participation in the story.

One cure is to eliminate all the proper names that you can. Start with Justin's, to be specific, because Justin is supposed to be the primary POV. If you establish that your primary "he" is Justin, a lot of times the reader will infer Justin from he. Other times, he refers to last proper name mentioned. These are not exclusively true in all situations.

For the stuff that makes absolutely no difference as to what genre you're writing in.

Attributives. These are the "said" words. They're almost adverbs, actually. They describe a part of the sentence that isn't a noun. Kill them with extreme prejudice. These should be your absolutely final resort for clarfiying who the speaker is. That is their only purpose in life, actually, is to clarify the speaker. Sure, they can be descriptive. He asked, ordered, yelled, screamed, whispered. But like adverbs, they're description is actually counter-productive. “It’ll just be a moment,” he whispered... is an okay example of what I mean. Well. We know Justin used a low tone of voice here. You described Justin's voice and nothing else. There's an inference of perhaps nervousness or fear, but we have no idea. Your worst attributive sin is the said adverb comination. He said seriously. he said eagerly. He said happily. He said zootropically. Adverbs are devil, Bobby Bouchet. Never, never, never do this except when you should. This is poor writing. Instead, use things like props, action, or emotion to describe it.

“You look great,” he said softly.... I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here, so I'm going to take a stab at some examples. "You look great." The purr in his voice was full of gentle admiration. "You look great." Craig couldn't have said anything else to make him feel better. "You look great." The soft-spoken words touched him like a lover's caress. "You look great." The tender understanding of both the words and the voice helped him push his fear away. You get the point.

Read Elements of Style by Strunk and White (http://www.bartleby.com/141).

You use a few funky turns of phrase that are more poetic than comfortable. Like Justin tried to calm himself, but his excitement was too great. This is just weird and it's not comfortable because no one uses this kind of phraseology. There were a couple of others, but you get the picture with this one.

Let's talk about contractions. Your high school English teacher probably beat it into your head that you're not allowed to use them in good writing. What s/he meant is that you're not allowed to use them in formal writing--such as research papers. I'm mentioning this because it seems that some of your phrasing was designed to avoid using contractions without the unnatural feel of using the two words. That's in the narrative, not in the dialogue.

Justin pushed his crotch, clad in the panties, against Craig’s leg, still encased by the shorts he wore, and rubbed his erection against the stiff leg. Craig moaned, moving his leg slightly, rubbing Justin’s cock back. This is a popular thing in the story. Repetition of body parts and other nouns and verbs. Now you've only got so many synonmyous words to use with resorting to the absurd or changing the tone, so you'll have to be creative about getting rid of a lot of repetition.

I would also like to mention some of your habits in description. "still encased by the shorts he wore" is a nice example of it. When you describe things it's perfectly okay to use high vocabulary. Providing the character describing uses that vocabulary normally. Encased is not a normal word. A large segment of the population will go through their entire lives and never use it. Think about it, outside of descriptive writing, when was the last time you used the word? It's not wrong to use words like this, it's just a little jarring.

The thing to remember about description is that it should be colored by the character doing the describing. It should be in his or her vernacular and it should have a feeling of judgment in it. The character isn't just giving a description, he's telling his opinion. It's brown, furry, and flies. It looks like a flying rat. Neither are wrong, but which one is more attractive to you as a reader? Not attractive as in the object being described, but attractive as in relating to the description and in particular to the person doing the describing.

That about does it for me, this afternoon. I have to go clean house. I do have to final things for you, though.

One is do not go back and edit this story to accomodate whatever you've learned about your writing. It's a waste of time. Instead, leave it as it is and apply what you've learned to what you're writing now. I mean this in any instance at any time. Any new knowledge from a few blurbs here at Lit to an in-depth course at the Iowa Writer's Conference. Don't go back and change the past, change the future. The only exception would be if you intend to rewrite the story with an eye toward selling it. Then you have return on your investment. Instead, keep old stories as a guage of how far you've gone or cannibalize them for characters, descriptions, or scenes.

Two, would you look over one of my stories? I intend to actually go past the "first draft hurry up and submit for the feedback" thing with this one. It needs polish and I'd like some opinions on it. I have a few specific areas, particularly if they're present and their effectiveness, that I'd like to have addressed, but I won't ask any questions that might lead your opinion. Thanks!

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=30049

The plot, in particular the conflict, climax, and resolution. What I mean by climax is essentially the point of no return, the place where the protagonist must face the conflict.

Character development such as motivation, believability, and how they fit with the plot.

I used some devices to create tension and I want to see if they're effective and subtle. That is, subtle as in if they fit together with the plot, character, tone, and style smoothly.

Tone and style. What did you think?

You can ignore things like punctuation and spelling mistakes. If you note an grammar stuff that's wrong, that'd be great.

Thank you!
 
To some, writing is a hobby. You do it for fun. You do it because you enjoy it. You do it because you like to share.

To others, writing is a vocation. You do it for the money, the praise, or for some other kind of gain. It can be fun and fulfilling, but that's not why you do it.

To a few, writing is an avocation. You do it because you must. You have no other way of expressing yourself.
 
first of all I really do appreciate people reading my post, and thinking anything about it, good or bad. second I appreciate the willingness to post thoughts on this thread, whatever they be.

I defend anyone's right to say what they think, whether it be about a person, a story, or even an idea. but without going into it some of the things said about me hurt my feelings.

I am not rational sometimes, I'll be the first to admit. I am a screwed up individual, and unfortunatly I think that most people know someone like me.

The reason I asked for negative things not to be posted on the thread is because I have an irrational fear of being humilated. You notice that I am on literotica more than I am out in the real world- I have a fear of people, people on lit included. I am terrified that someone out there is thinking something bad about me, and it bothers me in ways most people can't understand. your stomach sinks, your bowels twist, tears well in your eyes and for some reason you can't breath right because of the fear that people are thinking things about you. I have a hard time even leaving the house because people are going to think I'm dressed strange, I talk strange, I smell strange, something like that. It scares the shit out of me.

I started writing erotica in April. I didn't know what I was doing, and I still really don't. Killermuffin, I read tons of erotica <smile> I read it all day sometimes. When I stared writing it, I just wrote what came into my head. Hell, we can't do anything other than that, right? I hadn't written anything in years, I didn't know where to start. So I just sat down and tried to write. And for some reason some of it came, and some of it didn't. I have 49 stories completed and posted, you wouldn't believe my "never to be completed" folder.

It is frustrating when you put a lot of work into something and it doesn't show. The stories I am most proud of do the worst, the one's that I sit down and I plan out and I really care about, that I edit until I think they're perfect...for some reason the one's that I write in an afternoon do better. And it frustrates me.

excuse me for babbling, please, it's what I do best <as you can tell from my stories> I guess I just don't know what to say, but for some reason words keep showing up on the screen anyways.
 
ps...

I'm not 21 yet - if I were I could get out of the house at least to grab a drink.
 
Being hurt

We're human. We bleed. All of us, in our different ways. I think it was exceptionally brave of you to open up like that, my dear, and again without meaning to insult or hurt you, I wonder if you are getting some professional help with your fears. If you've read my "feedback offer" posting, you will see at one point I opened myself up and exposed some of my pain as well, and having sought a therapist myself (and, of course, being one) I would hardly see it as a negative thing. It sounds as if, being as young as you are, you are on your way to being homebound by your fears. Better to try to deal with it now. Trust me, alone it doesn't get better.
Be well.
ladyp
 
Well, booze worked for Hemingway. Why not get some fake ID and see how you write when suffering from Absinthe mindedness.
 
P.S.

I'm sorry, after re-reading what you said this last time I HAVE to add something.

some of the things said about me hurt my feelings.

PLEASE go back and read my post (I assume that is what you are referring to here). NOTHING was said about YOU. I spoke about my wonderings, my opinions, your writing, your words, and what I see as your attitudes toward your writing. You take all the things that are said about things outside of you, or things that are said in relationship to you, and equate them with how I think or feel about you. Darlin, I don't even know you! I have no right or desire to make negative statements about YOU personally...and if you take my opinions about your writing as personal commentary, you are taking it too much to heart. Please remember it is not about you as a person.
 
I hope you didn't feel like I was tearing you up. Nothing I said was negative or intended to be humiliating or painful. It was intended to be constructive criticism for the purpose of helping you look or analyze your own stories to take them apart.

If I didn't think your writing had merit, I never would have bothered with you.
 
I read Megan & Julie and immediately knew I was a lesbian trapped in a man's body. heh heh.

Sure, it was wordy, but I quickly immersed myself in the detail and enjoyed every bit of it. I wouldn't want to read a lot of stories like that, but it was satisfying to have read that one.

KillerMuffin's advice is solid including her suggestion that you not try to improve stories you have done in the past, but instead work on improving stories in the future. Look back on the 49+ stories you have already done and try to learn from them to write the kind of stories you want to do in the future.

Rick
 
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