Readability scores

[snooper]

Does anyone believe that the readability scores in Micro$oft Word have any meaning, or any validity, or any usefulness?

... My stuff on this site breaks a lot of rules of grammar, but when I run it through Word, Grammar and Spell Checker, it gives readability scores similar to or better than Hemingway, with over 80 percent of readers able to read it, (which means a grade 4 reading level). ...

Would you consider Grade 5 or Grade 3 to be "better" than Hemingway's Grade 4?

Do the numbers go up, or down, as the writing gets "better"?

To 'declare my interest', my novels come out at Grade 10, but I think I write for the more educated reader, rather than "Sun" newspaper (equiv. US "National Enquirer") aficionados.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

Does anyone believe that the readability scores in Micro$oft Word have any meaning, or any validity, or any usefulness?


Would you consider Grade 5 or Grade 3 to be "better" than Hemingway's Grade 4?

Do the numbers go up, or down, as the writing gets "better"?

To 'declare my interest', my novels come out at Grade 10, but I think I write for the more educated reader, rather than "Sun" newspaper (equiv. US "National Enquirer") aficionados.

Personally, I don't pay any attention to the scores in MS-Word. It uses sentence length, and length of words, and number of sentences per paragraph to come up with the score.

So, to increase the grade, all one has to do is write long, convoluted sentences, with a few four syllable words, and voila, instant increase.

I took my 2000 word run-on sentence from the AH thread and checked the score, it had a readability score of 0 and grade level of 1200.

I don't think the numbers are indicative of the quality of the writing at all. How can Microsoft Word decide what is "good" writing, and what is not?

 

[snooper]

... I think I write for the more educated reader, rather than "Sun" newspaper (equiv. US "National Enquirer") aficionados.

Hastily adds ... and definitely NOT for any children still at school.

 

[Foxee Browne]

Looks like I write at a grade 3.8 level. Whatever that is worth. Ran two documents and came up with the same score. It was kind of interesting, but not relavent to anything. IMO.

 

[starrkers]

My grade level ranges from 4.9 to 6.8, with readability goivng from 71.7 to 80.4.Means sod all to me, I don't know what the US grade levels equate to.

 

[snooper]

I don't know what the US grade levels equate to.

Basically add 5 to the grade number for the base age at the start of the academic year; so grade 3 is 8 to 9 years old. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_United_States for more details. UK current educational Year Numbers are all one year earlier than US grades IN TERMS OF AGE, so UK Year 3 is US Grade 2. In the old secondary school numbering system UK Sixth Form is US Grades 11 and 12 IN TERMS OF AGE.

The educational achievement levels are not comparable in any way because of the differences in curricula, as anyone who has tried to move a 10 to 14 year old from one continent to the other will tell you.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

It means we are all dumber than a 5th-grader.... LOL

A selecte few are making more.

Only in America!

 

[Weird Harold]

Does anyone believe that the readability scores in Micro$oft Word have any meaning, or any validity, or any usefulness?

Word 97 reports "Fleisch-Kincaid" scores -- the same sort of algorithms that are used to create Standardized Reading Evaluation Tests. In other words, they're based on the same principles and methods that the entire field of Reading Education and Evaluation is based on.

The method of figuring Fleisch-Kincaid scores has remained unchanged in the sixty years or so they've beenin existance -- in that respect, the scores Word produces are as meaningful and "valid" as any other quantitative assessment of readability.

Would you consider Grade 5 or Grade 3 to be "better" than Hemingway's Grade 4?

Do the numbers go up, or down, as the writing gets "better"?

Content has a lot to do with the "quality of the writing" but suprisingly little to do with the "readability" or "grade level." As drksideofthemoon noted, the scores are based on sentence and word length and sentence structure, so you can type complete gibberish and get a "good" readability score.

The Readability percentage gets higher and the grade level gets lower as the writing gets "better" -- at least if your definition of "better writing" includes passing information correctly to the reader.

In general, "better writing" should be clear, concise, and easy to read. If that is any part of your writing goal, then the readability statistics (in MS Word or a standalone readabiliy evaluation program) should be understood and monitored.

Any author should aim for the lowest grade level and highest "Reading Ease" score consistent with the difficulty of the Content.

IOW, If you're writing a report on Rocket Science, you're probably going to have to settle for a higher grade level and lower reading ease score because the Jargon of Rocket Science and the complexity of the concepts simply require longer words, morepassive voice, and more complex sentences. It does NOT mean that a report on Rocket Science must be grade twelve (as high as Word 97 can rade grade level) with a Reading Ease of 1%; it only means that you might have to settle for Grade 9 and 80% instead of Grade 7 and 90%.

To 'declare my interest', my novels come out at Grade 10, but I think I write for the more educated reader,

That is, IMHO, the most common misunderstanding of what the readability statistics tell you about your writing: You can write something with a "grade 1" and 99% Readability score that only a MENSA member can appreciate.

The readability scores have absolutely nothing to do with your target audience's educational level; F-K Readability is all about the physiology and psychology of reading and reading comprehension -- the "ergonomics" of reading, so to speak.

 

[starrkers]

I put more stead in the "reading ease" of the scores than the grade level (which seems fairly arbitrary - I moved schools a lot and different schools taught things at different rates, within different states of one country, let alone looking at different countries).
Most of my stories rate 75 or higher in reading ease. None fall below 70. I figure that's probably pretty good.

 

[Weird Harold]

...the grade level (which seems fairly arbitrary - I moved schools a lot and different schools taught things at different rates, ...

The Grade Level scores are not arbitrary -- at least not in the sense you mean. The Grade Level scores are the same as the Grade Level scores ALL of those schools get from standardized reading assesment tests. In almost every school I've had any dealings with, the average "reading grade level" is almost always higher than the the students' assigned grade -- usually by at least double.

For Example, I've read at Grade 12+ since the fourth grade (in 1960) and both of my granddaughters achieved that reading level by grade three (in 2003 and 2005.)

My younger daughter has a "learning disability" but even she reads at Grade 7 -- which is the USAF's (and most print media's) recommended target for non-technical writing.

 

[TwistedTalespinner]

Wow, I've really learned something new!

I always thought the Word score was an estimate of the number of time it would take Bill Gates to read the document before suing.



Seriously, the Word scoring is seriously flawed. Just ignore it.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Does anyone believe that the readability scores in Micro$oft Word have any meaning, or any validity, or any usefulness?


Would you consider Grade 5 or Grade 3 to be "better" than Hemingway's Grade 4?

Do the numbers go up, or down, as the writing gets "better"?

To 'declare my interest', my novels come out at Grade 10, but I think I write for the more educated reader, rather than "Sun" newspaper (equiv. US "National Enquirer") aficionados.

I use those tools as a guide, not a requirement. They can, and should, be set to whatever type of writing (casual, formal, technical) you're into. They can also be customized to check or not check on virtually anything having to do with punctuation or grammar.

The primary thing I use it for is to hunt for passive sentences. Spotting them is a challenge for me. The grammar checker does a good job. I don't always change the passive usage, but at least I know it's there and have the choice.

As for scores, they should only be used to give you clues about your writing. If you're working on a story for Lit and the reading level is grade ten, a rewrite MIGHT be in order. But that's your call. The tools suggest, they don't require any changes.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[snooper]

... The primary thing I use it for is to hunt for passive sentences. ...

Passive sentences should always be avoided.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Passive sentences should always be avoided.

Most of the time, yes, but IMHO, not always. For instance, in the short story I'm working on now, the narrator says, "From then on, I was hooked." According to Word, "I was hooked" is passive. But try as I might, none of the alternatives I managed to dream up did the job.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[starrkers]

Passive sentences should always be avoided.

No correct.
"She was trapped." is passive, but much better than "The situation trapped her." which is active.

 

[snooper]

... the narrator says, "From then on, I was hooked." According to Word, "I was hooked" is passive. ...

Assuming it was a person on whom (s)he was hooked:

"From then on (s)he had me hooked."

If it was a drug, or a game, then:

"From then on heroin/soccer had me hooked."

BTW no one remarked that Passive sentences should always be avoided. was itself passive, which makes my somewhat obscure point that what I said was self-falsifying.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Assuming it was a person on whom (s)he was hooked:

"From then on (s)he had me hooked."

If it was a drug, or a game, then:

"From then on heroin/soccer had me hooked."

BTW no one remarked that Passive sentences should always be avoided. was itself passive, which makes my somewhat obscure point that what I said was self-falsifying.

You still get a 99% grade on the Perils of Passive test, Snooper.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[CopyCarver]

Passive sentences should always be avoided.

I'll vote that ticket about 99% of the time.

There are a few, rare occasions, however, when passive voice seems appropriate. For example, a sparing use of passive voice can underline the passive nature of a character who plays doormat to the world.

Yeah, I know, show don't tell, but a protagonist's speech patterns really are one way of showing--and a fairly effective way.

 

[snooper]

... There are a few, rare occasions, however, when passive voice seems appropriate. ...

There are occasions when it is really the only way to say what you mean.

For example: Suddenly the room was plunged into darkness.

I realise that you could write "Suddenly the light went out." - oops, no that's still passive, since the light did not physically leave the room as in "Fred went out." Let's try "Suddenly someone plunged the room into darkness." Yes - that's active, but just a minute, the room has not moved (as in suddenly falling down a hole) and movement is usually implied by the verb, as in "She plunged into the pool". Also a deliberate act by the "someone" was implied to the reader. Maybe the fuses were just overloaded in the old house they were exploring. No act was actually performed by anyone to bring about the change described, and nothing was moved, yet the suddenness and the unexpectedness of the change in the room were conveyed exactly by the use of "plunged". That is what needs to be conveyed to the reader, and so that is when the passive mood should be used.

Oh dear, sorry about the mood of the last four and a half sentences.

 

[palisa]

Readability Index: There is no way a personal computer program can judge readability. It's far too complex a question. I'll say that flatly and take on all comers. Put 'em up

Passive voice: Again, Word messes up. The passive voice makes the logical object into the subject, but Word looks for forms of "to be" and considers them all passive. "I was tired" is not in the passive voice, any more than "I'm tired" is.

Somebody mentioned "She was trapped," which is not passive. "She" is the subject and the actor. Again, a failing in the program trips up the index. There is no object in those sentences. "Tired" and "trapped" are part of the predicate. The actor is the subject.

"Mistakes were made." Aha! Corporate or government weasel words. "Mistakes" is the object. "I made mistakes" is in the active voice, but when is the last time you heard that from the podium?

http://www.unc.edu/depts/wcweb/handouts/passivevoice.html is a nice exposition on the subject.

"Suddenly, the room was plunged into darkness." A good use of the passive voice. Assuming that in context no one knew who pulled the switch (a fair assumption unless the electric utility is to blame and the quote is from its spokesman), how else are you going to say it?