re. "Voice" in writing

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Ok, fellow authors, one more chance (for me). Below is an excerpt from a New Yorker essay on Eats, Shoots & Leaves by Lynne Truss (very critical review), the best-seller on grammar (full article url below; my emphases in copy). This bit speaks very well about a writer’s voice, and at the end about losing it (e.g., writer’s block related anxiety).

Without intent of embarrassing him, I offer Gauche as an example of a Lit. author with a voice—most “visible” in his latest contest entry, Gliding. Everyone knows Gauche is Yorkshire, and I believe that singular identity contributes to “the voice” of this and other of his works (even some posts). As Menand expresses below, I think “Gliding” shows the proof of ‘embellishing, polishing and perfecting’. Somehow Gauche emboldens his writing language with “tone of voice, winks, smiles, raised eyebrows, hand gestures".

Any thoughts? Not necessarily re. Gauche or his story, but about your own style, intent, voice? I also insert a link to my previous thread in case anyone wants to take me really seriously ;) . Thanks, Perdita
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BAD COMMA - Louis Menand - New Yorker (Issue of 2004-06-28, posted 2004-06-21)

... One of the most mysterious of writing’s immaterial properties is what people call “voice.” Editors sometimes refer to it, in a phrase that underscores the paradox at the heart of the idea, as “the voice on the page.” Prose can show many virtues, including originality, without having a voice. It may avoid cliché, radiate conviction, be grammatically so clean that your grandmother could eat off it. But none of this has anything to do with this elusive entity the “voice.” There are probably all kinds of literary sins that prevent a piece of writing from having a voice, but there seems to be no guaranteed technique for creating one. Grammatical correctness doesn’t insure it. Calculated incorrectness doesn’t, either. Ingenuity, wit, sarcasm, euphony, frequent outbreaks of the first-person singular—any of these can enliven prose without giving it a voice. You can set the stage as elaborately as you like, but either the phantom appears or it doesn’t. ... When it does appear, the subject is often irrelevant.

Writing that has a voice is writing that has something like a personality. But whose personality is it? As with all art, there is no straight road from the product back to the producer. There are writers loved for their humor who are not funny people, and writers admired for their eloquence who swallow their words, never look you in the eye, and can’t seem to finish a sentence. Wisdom on the page correlates with wisdom in the writer about as frequently as a high batting average correlates with a high I.Q.: they just seem to have very little to do with one another. Witty and charming people can produce prose of sneering sententiousness, and fretful neurotics can, to their readers, seem as though they must be delightful to live with. Personal drabness, through some obscure neural kink, can deliver verbal blooms. Readers who meet a writer whose voice they have fallen in love with usually need to make a small adjustment afterward in order to hang on to the infatuation.

The uncertainty about what it means for writing to have a voice arises from the metaphor itself. Writers often claim that they never write something that they would not say. It is hard to know how this could be literally true. Speech is somatic, a bodily function, and it is accompanied by physical inflections—tone of voice, winks, smiles, raised eyebrows, hand gestures—that are not reproducible in writing. Spoken language is repetitive, fragmentary, contradictory, limited in vocabulary, loaded down with space holders (“like,” “um,” “you know”)—all the things writing teachers tell students not to do. And yet people can generally make themselves understood right away. As a medium, writing is a million times weaker than speech. It’s a hieroglyph competing with a symphony.

The other reason that speech is a bad metaphor for writing is that writing, for ninety-nine per cent of people who do it, is the opposite of spontaneous. Some writers write many drafts of a piece; some write one draft, at the pace of a snail after a night on the town. But chattiness, slanginess, in-your-face-ness, and any other features of writing that are conventionally characterized as “like speech” are usually the results of laborious experimentation, revision, calibration, walks around the block, unnecessary phone calls, and recalibration. Writers, by nature, tend to be people in whom l’esprit de l’escalier is a recurrent experience: they are always thinking of the perfect riposte after the moment for saying it has passed. So they take a few years longer and put it in print. Writers are not mere copyists of language; they are polishers, embellishers, perfecters. They spend hours getting the timing right—so that what they write sounds completely unrehearsed.

Does this mean that the written “voice” is never spontaneous and natural but always an artificial construction of language? This is not a proposition that most writers could accept. The act of writing is personal; it feels personal. The unfunny person who is a humorous writer does not think, of her work, “That’s not really me.” Critics speak of “the persona,” a device for compelling, in the interests of licensing the interpretative impulse, a divorce between author and text. But no one, or almost no one, writes “as a persona.” People write as people, and if there were nothing personal about the result few human beings would try to manufacture it for a living. Composition is a troublesome, balky, sometimes sleep-depriving business. What makes it especially so is that the rate of production is beyond the writer’s control. You have to wait, and what you are waiting for is something inside you to come up with the words. That something, for writers, is the voice.

A better basis than speaking for the metaphor of voice in writing is singing. You can’t tell if someone can sing or not from the way she talks, and although “natural phrasing” and “from the heart” are prized attributes of song, singing that way requires rehearsal, preparation, and getting in touch with whatever it is inside singers that, by a neural kink or the grace of God, enables them to turn themselves into vessels of musical sound. Truss is right (despite what she preaches) when she implies, by her own practice, that the rules really don’t have that much to do with it. Before Luciano Pavarotti walked onstage at the opera house, he was in the habit of taking a bite of an apple. That’s how he helped his voice to sound spontaneous and natural.

What writers hear when they are trying to write is something more like singing than like speaking. Inside your head, you’re yakking away to yourself all the time. Getting that voice down on paper is a depressing experience. When you write, you’re trying to transpose what you’re thinking into something that is less like an annoying drone and more like a piece of music. This writing voice is the voice that people are surprised not to encounter when they “meet the writer.” The writer is not so surprised. Writers labor constantly under the anxiety that this voice, though they have found it a hundred times before, has disappeared forever, and that they will never hear it again. Some writers, when they begin a new piece, spend hours rereading their old stuff, trying to remember how they did it, what it’s supposed to sound like. This rarely works; nothing works reliably. Sooner or later, usually later than everyone involved would have preferred, the voice shows up, takes a bite of the apple, and walks onstage.

full article   old, neglected thread on writer's block
 
Hi Perdita,

Good thread.

(Now that England is out of the footy, I'm throwing myself back into my writing. ;) )

Before I talk about my own writing and experiences with voice I want to echo your sentiments about Gauche's story. It is an excellent story and it is made so by his very strong and distinctive voice.

Many of us can write well (I believe), but what sets us apart? What makes one writer's stories stick out, above others? It is the voice. The stronger and more distinctive it is (without being just plain out there and weird), the better. It is those stories with very strong narrative and identity which really stand out, at least to me and particularly here at Lit.

As for my own writing, I'm not sure. I don't ever think about my voice when I'm writing - I don't think a writer could - it either matures and develops naturally, or it doesn't.

I have been told I do have a distinctive voice, but I have often wondered if it is my style which is prominant, as opposed to my voice.

I know I write in a direct way, with strong - often clipped - language, and I would love to, one day, look at a piece by myself and say, "Yeah, that's my voice."

Now, back to work. ;)

Lou :rose:
 
P,

Not sure if my words will be relevant. I understand what the article is saying, and I think that most of us try to use a 'voice' for each of our stories, if we do not, then at best the text will forever remain a soulless chain of events.

Personally, I find it impossible not to write and give the piece a voice. I have been told by many readers who know me, and I have to admit it as probable, that there is probably a lot of myself speaking in the 'voice' (a fact with which I am still coming to terms), a lot of my own fantasies and yearnings, much more so in those pieces written in the first person (my favoured style). When writing in the narrative, it becomes harder - for me - to give 'voice', as the text constantly swings between the characters involved, making it more of a 'conversation'.

For me, probably the most effective way of creating, capturing and maintaining the voice of the writer, is through poetry. The most personal and telling of mediums.

Shoot me down if I'm completely on the wrong tack.

Mat :heart:

PS, and yes, I did go back and 'tidy' this before posting it. *grinning*, ever the hopeful perfectionist
 
Tatelou said:
Many of us can write well (I believe), but what sets us apart? What makes one writer's stories stick out, above others? It is the voice. The stronger and more distinctive it is (without being just plain out there and weird), the better. It is those stories with very strong narrative and identity which really stand out, at least to me and particularly here at Lit.
Maybe I'm steering down a side track here, honk if you think I need to change lanes...

Yes, there is "the voice", whatever that is. An abstract concept often connected in people's minds to the language and sentence rhythm we use, the attitude of the narration, and so on. It tends to focus on the style we present the content with.

There was a well renowed literature critic in one local newspaper who once did a lineup of Nobel Price winners (in literature, duh) and said this about Wole Soyinka (apologies for spelling): "He got the price because he has told stories that needed to be told - albeit not very good."

I think the actual ride that the reader is taken on, the story, the plot, the adventure unfolding, is a far more important part of a writing identity than the form in which it is written. This can help enhance the story, or spoil the mood, but I've found that a good story can pretty much stand on it's own as long as the presentation of it is half-decent. It could be my narration-less playwright background seeping through, but personally I'd rather be bad storyteller with good stories, than the other way around.

I'd preferr to be both though. :)

#L
 
Liar said:


I think the actual ride that the reader is taken on, the story, the plot, the adventure unfolding, is a far more important part of a writing identity than the form in which it is written. This can help enhance the story, or spoil the mood, but I've found that a good story can pretty much stand on it's own as long as the presentation of it is half-decent. It could be my narration-less playwright background seeping through, but personally I'd rather be bad storyteller with good stories, than the other way around.

I'd preferr to be both though. :)

#L

You do have a point, to a certain extent, but what is it that draws us back to the same author time and time again? I'm talking published novelists here, btw, as well as maybe writers here at Lit. I believe it's their voice. It's the way they tell 'em, as it were.

Yeah, I think I can string together words to write a decent enough plot, but can I write in such a way that hooks the readers? That makes them think, "Wow, I love the way she writes, gimme more!"

I can come up with some brilliant plots, but can I do them justice when it comes to getting them down on "paper"?

I think this is the issue for me: whatever I write, within whatever genre, will people recognise me, through my writing?

All of the most sucessful novelists have/had their own distinctive voice/personallity/tone/whatever, calling out at you from the pages of their books.

Out of all the top horror writers, I bet you that I could blind read a new book by any one of them and tell you who wrote it.

That's what voice is, and it is one of the most important componants of being sucessful at this writing lark - in my very humble opinion. ;)

Lou
 
Liar, you did steer off a bit, but no problemo. However, I don’t want to judge or argue about the difference between ‘voice’ and ‘style’, or between ‘story’ and ‘plot’. If you read a bit more carefully the above essay you’ll see Menand addresses this.

You say, “whatever that is” re. the voice; again, that is addressed above.

Nobel laureate writers do not necessarily produce “Literature”, btw. They are chosen w/more focus on their contribution to humankind, eeks—even politics (of the gauche persuasion).

You say, "I think the actual ride that the reader is taken on, the story, the plot, the adventure unfolding, is a far more important part of a writing identity than the form in which it is written." That’s very common, but not the reason I write or read. Just saying.

Ok? Ok. Perdita :cool:
 
I haven't written enough to say I have a 'voice'. Or maybe I do, I just haven't recognised that I have one yet.

But when I'm writing it's like watching a movie in my head. I then try to project it on the screen of the page so other people can share it.

So I don't worry about my 'voice'. I just worry about my story. Is it any good? And am I telling it well?

Hey! I finally had enough guts to post something on a thread about writing.
 
Tatelou said:
You do have a point, to a certain extent, but what is it that draws us back to the same author time and time again? I'm talking published novelists here, btw, as well as maybe writers here at Lit. I believe it's their voice. It's the way they tell 'em, as it were.

Yeah, I think I can string together words to write a decent enough plot, but can I write in such a way that hooks the readers? That makes them think, "Wow, I love the way she writes, gimme more!"

I can come up with some brilliant plots, but can I do them justice when it comes to getting them down on "paper"?

I think this is the issue for me: whatever I write, within whatever genre, will people recognise me, through my writing?

All of the most sucessful novelists have/had their own distinctive voice/personallity/tone/whatever, calling out at you from the pages of their books.

Out of all the top horror writers, I bet you that I could blind read a new book by any one of them and tell you who wrote it.

That's what voice is, and it is one of the most important componants of being sucessful at this writing lark - in my very humble opinion. ;)

Lou
See, this was exactly what I was trying to pinpoint, thanks for helping me clarify it. :)

Your attitude (or at least the one I read here, maybe it's just ) towards the plot is quite a common one, and dare I say, in my opinion, a little flippant (is that the right word?). There is of course no right or wrong when it comes to these kind of things, we all float our boats differently.

You say you can string words together to construct a decent enough story. Well, I don't want a decent enough story, I want a story that bends my mind, plunges in and twists my mind and hangs me upside down by the balls.

And a story can be told even without stringing together words. It's the foundation and construct that you paste the words onto, if you wish. Yes, I'm also talking about known authors here, published acts in my bookshelf.

You say that all the great authors have their own voice, and that's true, but there is a difference between using that voice as a tool to get a story across, or using it to say "Hello, I'm Ernest Hemmingway" over and over again.

Most of the time when I read a novel, I don't want to locate certain things and say "oh yeah, that os so This Author", if you know what I mean. I want to be so engorged with the story and the characters that I forget that I am holding a book, and believe that I'm actually there. And that only happens now and then, not because of the writing style (as long as the writing quality is good enough to suspend disbelief) but because the story they are telling is Just That Good.

I go back to an author that put me in that place. I've also read wery well written books with a really interresting voice. Attitude, rhythm, charm, language that were all enticing - but the author didn't have all that much to say, and never got me emotionally involved with what little was happening.

Well, there's my 2c, I hope I got them through better this time. Maybe my AH posting voice isn't disinct enough. :)

#L


Edited to add: Ok, I got a little confrontational there. Didn't mean nuttin by it, you know that. :kiss:
 
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perdita said:
You say, "I think the actual ride that the reader is taken on, the story, the plot, the adventure unfolding, is a far more important part of a writing identity than the form in which it is written." That’s very common, but not the reason I write or read. Just saying.

Ok? Ok. Perdita :cool:
Okayers. :) Just saying that the opposite applies to me.

And I did read the whole original post, I wouldn't throw myself into a discussion without doing that. I found that it said pretty much the same thing as any attempt to pinpoint this voice thingy.

I just butted in to say that I don't think voice is that important, as long as it's a good, readable one, and what the voice says is as much, if not more of a distiguisher from author to author.

To use the voice analogy again, if you rear someone singing a melody, do you listen primarily to the voice, or to the melody? Some do one, others the other.

But I'll shut up now, so y'all can have your thread back, and steer it on topic again. :)

cheerio!
#L
 
I'm not sure that subject matter is the main driving force behind anything that is 'good' to read.

For good or bad, the only books that I will peruse when in my local bookshop are Sci-fi, out of those books there are only a few percent of authors that I will pick up to sample, which means I'm running seriously short of books to read.

As Mab. has expounded a number of times in various threads an 'incident' can be a story with all that, that classically implies. Plot, characterisation, conflict, tension, resolution etc. I agree wholeheartedly with this view because so much depends on the writing.

The writing, in this case, has to be able to tell a whole lot more than what is written and with the right 'voice' can and does.

A 'voice' by its very word choice can tell a history in a paragraph (or a shortish sentence in Ogg's case) where an 'unvoiced' piece of writing will take three pages to let you know that the character 'is a bit shy'.

Every single facet of the 'human condition' has been written about even before the internet was born. The essential elements of every mystery, adventure or picaresque has already been commited to paper before any of us were born. (Including RGraham) So how is it possible to write anything at all? Because of 'voice'.

Unstructured or polished, untutored or degree level, illiterate or erudite, if it has a 'voice' with which you can resonate then it will be enjoyable to read.

Gauche
 
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