Rationalizing improved quality of life with any Taliban memeber is like.........l

[Sparky Kronkite]

attempting to teach an ape to write with a pen.

The ape will hold the pen for a while until frustrated - then stab you in the eye with it.

The taliban are nothing more than 11th century war mongers with modern weaponry. They are cavemen with AK-47's. They are criminal in value. They sacrifice their own kind, their young, their families. They destroy all they survey.

They are human (and I use that word hesitantly) cancer.

They must be extingiushed.

 

[Starfish]

What is Fermata?

 

[Texan]

What is Fermata?

hey starfish... is that a real question.... or am I missing some secret joke?

If it's a real question, I'll post an answer.... if not, I'll go play on the interstate where it's safer.....

 

[TheSaxMan]

Quick note: This isn't a stab at you Sparky, this is my general gripe at the state of the U.S.A.

Why is it that we seem to think that we have to right to judge every other country in the world simply because we're american? For your average person, their only source of information about the outside world is the newspaper. Most people that are talking about the Taliban and other governments have never been there, have never seen the problems or benefits, and are basing their facts on what is read in the newspaper. Right now, there aren't any papers that would print pro-Taliban stories simply because the mood of the country is such that no one would buy it. The Taliban was simply a strict Islamic government. You personally (and again, this is to the US in general) may not believe in Islam, but please don't take it upon yourself to dictate other's beliefs. There have been many strict Christian groups, including the Puritans, who many believe helped to start this country, but you never see them lambasted for imposing their beliefs on people living in their towns. It's all a matter of perspective.

 

[Texan]

Quick note: This isn't a stab at you Sparky, this is my general gripe at the state of the U.S.A.

Why is it that we seem to think that we have to right to judge every other country in the world simply because we're american? For your average person, their only source of information about the outside world is the newspaper. Most people that are talking about the Taliban and other governments have never been there, have never seen the problems or benefits, and are basing their facts on what is read in the newspaper. Right now, there aren't any papers that would print pro-Taliban stories simply because the mood of the country is such that no one would buy it. The Taliban was simply a strict Islamic government. You personally (and again, this is to the US in general) may not believe in Islam, but please don't take it upon yourself to dictate other's beliefs. There have been many strict Christian groups, including the Puritans, who many believe helped to start this country, but you never see them lambasted for imposing their beliefs on people living in their towns. It's all a matter of perspective.

Let me make this simple. The Taliban was a government that harbored and supported BinLaden and the rest of his terrorist network. They did not tacitly allow al-Qaida's existence, they actively supported them. On 9/11, al-Qaida committed an overt act of war agains the U.S. The Taliban was given time and the opportunity to "turn over" Bin Ladin and al-Qaida to the U.S. Had they done that, I'm sure the U.S. would have allowed the Taliban to continue uninterrupted as a repressive fundamentalist Islamic government. The Taliban was not "simply" (your word) an Islamic government. They were actively trying to prevent the U.S. from defending itself from future attacks by al-Qaida. They signed their own death warrant.

 

[lavender]

 

[Astro]

I agree that hindsight is 20:20. But I decided to throw my thoughts into the mix

It's easy to bitch at a country and it's people when they are on the other side of the world. The USA with NATO has supported terriost actions when they were directed against the USSR, the USSR did the same against NATO and her allies. This was termed Black Ops or Black Book projects.

The people of the USA have funded terriost actions against my own country, and infact my own family through the IRA. Which would be the same as me funding a radical Native American group to blow up New York, Washington or any city they thought was easy. Then they could shoot famers and their families so they could buy land for cheap.

You really care about those people? Actually care? It's easy to care when all you have to do is type a few words. You really care in a Christian Charity way? You really care in a Muslim world betterment, or a Pagan happy thoughts way? THEN GO AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

Give your money, your time and your effort to the betterment of the Afgan people. Give up your internet, your computer, your nice house and car and go to Afgan or any other country that needs some 'help' form the ever correct Western World.

 

[lavender]

 

[KillerMuffin]

Sparky's reaction is actually quite normal. He is a marine. Doesn't matter how long ago he said see ya to the corps, he's still a marine and always will be. I'm not shocked by his reaction at all, perhaps because I see it's mirror every single day.

There are two kinds of servicemen in this country, those who've seen action and those who haven't. I'm in the latter group, everyone else in my house besides the bratchild is in the former group. Their reactions and the way Sparky has been carrying on since 9-11 makes me think he's been shot at before. It changes you in ways that no one can imagine unless you've been there done that.

Anyway, Sparky sees the entire thing from a marine's perspective, a soldier's perspective. It's very simple and very, surprisingly enough, non-judgemental. It appears that he's judging the Taliban and terrorists, but he's not. They are the Enemy. It's as simple as that. They are the Enemy therefore they are scum. In the servicemember world Enemy = Target to Kill. You can't kill someone you've humanized in your mind. The Enemy has to be someone that's worthy of being killed, and you do it by dehumanizing them, making them trash, scum, the lowest common denominator. The United States has trained Sparky to think that way, and for a very good reason. They trained him to think that he and the marines are the toughest motherfuckers in the valley, and for a very good reason. Once you've learned that it never goes away. You get Enemy in your mind and they are always going to be Someone to Kill.

Kill is a word that we use around our lives a lot. We talk about death and killing like it's nothing. We see it on TV and in the movies to the point that we feel almost inured to it. But who here as actually seen some die violently? Who here has actually had someone try to kill them violently? Who here has actually killed someone? On purpose?

Enjoy a real treat, go to your local VA hospital and listen to the Vets. They sound exactly like Sparky.

Am I romanticizing or rationalizing Sparky and Veterans? Nope. I just understand them very well. I know why they behave the way the do and why they think the way they do. I don't think a lot of people here understand Sparky and I know most of the people here don't understand what War really means on its basest level, the fighting level. I do know that it's not only a good thing that we don't, but that Sparky and Vets like him are glad that we don't because it means they've done their jobs well.

Disagree with him all you like about what's happening in the war. Don't denigrate him for his opinions or think that he's a psycho whackjob. Don't think that he has no human compassion in him, he does. Just think for a minute that his opinions are coming from an experience base that you not only know nothing about, but that you couldn't even imagine.

 

[Astro]

I dont know if Sparky really was a Marine, but I take him at face value and believe him, Marines are soldiers trained to a high level to fight and kill the enemy in defence of their homeland and it's people. Soldiers are willing to put their own live between the enemy and that they love. This is true action.

Being vocal raises public demand for action. Politics takes over, and then the President or Prime Minister orders Soldiers to do what you said you wanted.

Giving money only helps, when people actually care enough to spend their live going to places like Romania, Bosnia, etc etc to help the people. These people may disagree with soldiers, but they both care enough to go and face the enemy to protect the people.

 

[TheSaxMan]

Texan, I wholeheartedly agree with you. It's not the US's attack of Afghanistan that I disagree with. It's our feeling that we need to impose our moral standards on the rest of the world. While not quite as severely, many of the beliefs that the Taliban imposed still exist in Muslim nations across the Middle East. And, while the restrictions the Taliban placed on women seem terrible, there are many other countries in the world that allow much more terrible things. For years Thailand allowed prostitution, slavery still exists across Africa, and child labor laws are violated all across asia, but these are much less popular causes now that we've attacked Afghanistan. I just think that we need to back off the Taliban bashing and put all of this energy that America has right now towards other more productive causes.

To Sparky, I'm sorry. I didn't know the circumstances surrounding the post. I have great respect for those who have given their time, health, and even lives for our country. I may not believe in some of the causes that the US has stood for in its day, but I will always support the men and women of the Armed Forces.

 

[lavender]

 

[p_p_man]

attempting to teach an ape to write with a pen.

The ape will hold the pen for a while until frustrated - then stab you in the eye with it.

The taliban are nothing more than 11th century war mongers with modern weaponry. They are cavemen with AK-47's. They are criminal in value. They sacrifice their own kind, their young, their families. They destroy all they survey.

They are human (and I use that word hesitantly) cancer.

They must be extingiushed.

This post is absolute rubbish.

Afghanis have always been a treachourous, loyal switching, bunch of regional warlords. The Taleban are just carrying on the tradition of the country.

Haven't you noticed how after severe fighting the Taleban and the Northern Alliance soldiers are swapping cigarettes and hugging each other within minutes of them meeting face to face.

I suggest you search the net with the criteria "Afghanistan UK" and read what is displayed. Some of the historical accounts give excellent examples of the Afghan character.

If you feel like this why haven't you posted this sort of tripe before. Or did it need an atrocity like the twin towers to awaken this sudden and miraculous insight into the Afghani psyche?

You're just following the crowd. But I suppose as an ex-marine you're used to doing that.

And your final sentence. Jeez, if I'd said that I would have been branded a Nazi by other members of the Board.

What do you really think Sparky?

 

[Moridin187]

Normally when it comes to matters of fundamentalist governments, I believe in leaving them alone until they do something that warrants action. However, the Taliban was Not a fundamentalist government, it wasn't even a government at all. They were/are an invading foreign army that took over a country by force and maintained control of it with the same. Something should have been done long ago to stop the horrible repression and atrocities. But hey, that's just my opinion.

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

This is quite amazing really.

As for my being Marine tainted? Sure I guess but I tend to think I have a better handle on it than that. ppman has it best.

No, I have not been there. However I have read and I swear to you - these people are barely human. This is absolutely no bullshit. Fact is the general phrase "you don't know because you haven't been there" (being sound) would better aply to those of liberal view on this matter. If they could go there - they would be totally shocked by what they would see.

These people live a life a far removed from ours as one could possibly get - and they want to remain that way. If you attempt logic and rationalization with them - they will want to kill you. It's that simple. They do every contrary to what we do. In essence they are the total antithisis of our society - which I could understand but only if they didn't want to make us dead.

And you see - in the end that is what make us better than they - we would want to allow them to exist for the most part - until that is they would do us in. They do not want us to exist at all.

You see? They refuse to want to understand. They have no understanding. They have no reason. They are blind. They can't think. They can't rationalize. They will never quit.

So they must die.

If you don't believe that is true - then you should go there and see for yourself. But be careful - they'll most likely want you dead.

As for the armed service doing their job over there? That they are doing. Most "normal free-world folks" don't want to know the details - too nasty. But that is thier job and they will do it proudly - as I would do - as I did. For those of you who might not understand the nastyness of that job - so be it.

Look away. Buy stock. We do it for you, even if you might not understand the value. You are children.