a "New Direction" more of the same..

[Ulaven_Demorte]

OK, lets see

In Gulags and Concentration Camps you had people starved and worked to death if not outright killed!
True

In Gulags and Concentration Camps MILLLIONS of people when thru this.
True

It can be argued that Gulags and Concentration Camps had MOSTLY CIVILIANS in them, not accused terrorists!
True, and a majority of the people held in guantanamo were held for years with no charges ever being filed and were released without charges ever being filed or proven. Accused does not mean guilty, remember your mantra from the Duke case, and DeLay's indictment.

Here is the FBI report, http://intelwire.egoplex.com/2007_01_02_exclusives.html#116779137045514773

The details and allegations came ONLY from the detainees. So even if they were ALL TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who else would you expect to complain about treatment? the FBI personell? Wait, thats who filed the report.

It isnt even a tiny pimple on an elephants ass compared to what went on in Gulags and Concentration Camps!
Your opinion. Torture is torture, denigration is denigration. I don't care if it's 1 or 100,000 prisoners. He was comparing conditions present and treatment of prisoners.

Further, out of SEVERAL THOUSAND inmates, at most at GITMO, the FBI found about a DOZEN 'problems", and the problems are NOTHING AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Again, your opinion, the problems are hardly nothing at all.

In GULAGS and CONCENTRATION CAMPS there were MILLIONS if not tens of millions, especially on the Soviet side
1 or 100,000 , it doesn't matter.

To so quickly BELIEVE and so QUICKLY ASSERT a comparison is BARBARIC and bespeaks of HATRED and DISRESPECT by DICK durbin of the troops
Bringing this treatment into the light of day is a shot at the administration who authorized and approved of this treatment. He did not say that the soldiers were to blame. Even if they should know that this is heinous treatment for an accused prisoner.

FURTHER

During the campaign, Howeird Dumb, asserted that OBL is only ALLEGED to be the mastermind of 9/11~!
Back to the subject at hand, you're drifting.

The LIBS love to say the GITMO detainees are only ALLEGED to be terrorists.
Many more were released without ever being charged with anything then the number that were charged. Thats pretty much damning evidence that they were 'alleged' terrorists, innocent civilians.

Always giving TERRORISTS the benefit of the doubt
Getting off the subject here..

Here we had a Sen NOT giving the troops the benefit of the doubt but calling them actors in barbaric activity
Again, he was berating the actions authorized by leadership and the conditions present at Guantanamo. He did not express disdain toward the personel manning the facility, thats just the way it was spun.

It should be noted at the time DICK durbin caught alot of flack, even from some DumOHz

The NYTimes didnt report the flack nor the words that were said, this depite it being a national story for about 10 days


Finally, DICKdurbin apoligized for his remarks, the Times printed the apology, without ever printing what he apoligized for

For you or anyone to downplay the crude and vile nature of these comments is shameful
Funny, the only shame I feel is that our country has decided that torture and mistreatment of prisoners is OK.

For the DUMZ to keep him in leadership says exactly what the DUMZ are!

*YAWN*

The point here is that a large majority of these prisoners were held for years without any charges ever being filed, were released after years without charges ever being filed. These innocents accused of terrorism were held in conditions resembling a Nazi concentration camp or soviet gulag. Never did Durbin say that the soldiers manning that installation were at fault. Thats the way it was spun by defenders, such as yourself, of the denigrating and inhuman conditions present at Guantanamo. *Gasp* He called our soldiers nazis!... no he didn't, he said that had you not known that this report was from the FBI concerning guantanamo that one would assume it was about a Concentration camp or soviet gulag when conditions were described. The issue was blown WAY out of proportion and words were put in Senator Durbin's mouth, and still are apparently.

 

[busybody..]

Nonsense

The Gulags and CC never gave food beyond WATER and BREAD

the MOOSEFUCKS get 3 plus squares a day

Prayer rugs

Excercise

Therapists

Medical care

It is an abomination to compare the two

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Nonsense

The Gulags and CC never gave food beyond WATER and BREAD

the MOOSEFUCKS get 3 plus squares a day

Prayer rugs

Excercise

Therapists

Medical care

It is an abomination to compare the two

Chained to the floor, tiny cell, 'agressive interrogation' (sleep deprivation, waterboarding, threatening family members and children with violence) all sound like gulag to me. But then, you advocate genocide based on religious preference. Your opinion is skewed in the extreme.

 

[busybody..]

You then have NO IDEA what a GULAG was!

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

You then have NO IDEA what a GULAG was!

"Ve haff vays of makink you talk." is supposed to be the bad guy's line, not ours.

 

[busybody..]

Chained to the floor, tiny cell, 'agressive interrogation' (sleep deprivation, waterboarding, threatening family members and children with violence.

I have NO problem with this

NONE


lets also stipulate

that it was used on MAYBE 100-200

The FBI has HOW MANY INSTANCES????????

GULAGS and CC had them by the MILLIONS if not tens of MILLIONS

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

I have NO problem with this

NONE


lets also stipulate

that it was used on MAYBE 100-200

The FBI has HOW MANY INSTANCES????????

GULAGS and CC had them by the MILLIONS if not tens of MILLIONS

1 or 1 million torture is torture, inhuman treatment or conditions are not acceptable because they were only used on a couple of hundred *accused* terrorists. Accused terrorists , some of which were released after years of incarceration with no charges ever being leveled against them.

You rail against insurgents torturing our soldiers and civilian contractors, but somehow it's ok that we do it to detainees even when they haven't been convicted of anything, most not even CHARGED with anything.

Should we torture the accused in every case to obtain confessions?

 

[unregistered]

 

[busybody..]

1 or 1 million torture is torture, inhuman treatment or conditions are not acceptable because they were only used on a couple of hundred *accused* terrorists. Accused terrorists , some of which were released after years of incarceration with no charges ever being leveled against them.

You rail against insurgents torturing our soldiers and civilian contractors, but somehow it's ok that we do it to detainees even when they haven't been convicted of anything, most not even CHARGED with anything.

Should we torture the accused in every case to obtain confessions?

You obviously have no moral compass at all!


There is NOTHING wrong with doing ANYTHING to a terrorist or someone who MAY know something

NOTHING!

There is everything wrong with doing evil to people that represent no danger, but are harmed for paranoia or some such bullshit reason!



The fact that you can write this

You rail against insurgents torturing our soldiers and civilian contractors, but somehow it's ok that we do it to detainees even when they haven't been convicted of anything, most not even CHARGED with anything.


And not see the problem with it speaks ill of YOU!

the fact that at least half the country, all the Dumz, and most of Euro-pee believes the same

Just means we have alot more "people" to dispose of then I thiught!

 

[busybody..]

Yup

Lets NOT KILL EM ALL!

Report: London mosque’s DVDs predict mass extermination of Jews
http://www.ejpress.org/article/news/12847

By David Byers Updated: 11/Jan/2007 18:01

LONDON (EJP)--- One of London’s most established mosques is selling DVDs predicting the mass-killing of the entire worldwide Jewish community, a British undercover television documentary will claim.

The London Central Mosque, in Regents Park, is later this month to be exposed as selling DVDs containing the speeches by two radical preachers, Sheikh Feiz and Sheikh Khalid Yasin, which predict the mass-extermination of the Jews on a "day of judgment," dismiss equal rights for women as "foolishness," and accuse the Christian faith of deliberately spreading the AIDS virus around Africa.

Dispatches, an investigative series on the UK’s Channel Four, is to reveal further details of the so-called ’hate’ preacher DVDs, which it discovered were being sold at the London Central Mosque shop, when its episode ’Undercover Mosques’ is screened at 8pm on Monday. The station says its revelations come after a 12-month investigation into hate-preaching and extremism in Britain’s Muslim religious institutions.

Day of judgement

In one of the DVDs sold in the mosque shop, the documentary will show Sheikh Feiz imitating the noise of a pig when referring to Jewish people, who he says will be killed on the "day of judgment".

Other DVD footage shows Sheikh Yasin saying: "The whole delusion of equality of women is foolishness... there is no such thing."

He also says: "Missionaries from the World Health Organisation and Christian groups went into Africa and inoculated people for diphtheria, malaria, yellow fever and they put in the medicine the AIDS virus, which is a conspiracy."

The findings will spark off further discussion within Britain about the radicalisation of extreme elements within the country’s Muslim community, which was highlighted on July 7, 2005, as a group of home-grown suicide terrorists killed 52 in simultaneous rush-hour Underground and bus bombings in London.

Poor record

Despite the apparent radicalisation of some extreme elements of the Islamic community in the UK, the country still has a far poorer record of deporting so-called ’hate-preachers,’ or those who use inflammatory speeches to call for acts of terrorism against the UK and the USA, than continental European countries like France and Germany.

On Wednesday night, and faced with revelations of selling the extremist DVDs in his store, Hafiz Waheed, the manager of the London Central Mosque shop, said that the particular DVDs, of which there were about ten, were no longer on sale and appeared to have sold out.

They came from an Australian supplier and had been on sale four or five months ago, he said, alongside hundreds of other titles in the shop.

He said: "We don’t have DVDs which incite hatred. We do not intend to sell them and we don’t want to sell them.

"I contacted our supplier straight away and I mentioned our concern. They said that if you listen to the whole speech it is clearly out of context, and the media is not showing the whole picture."

He added: "Our mentality is not to keep anything which leads to this kind of incitement." He said the shop still stored other DVDs featuring Sheikh Yasin and he would be going through them to make sure none contained any such material.

 

[busybody..]

Hey De PORTER

Just cause you see it

it may not be so



Egypt seizes al-Jazeera reporter

Sunday, 14 January 2007

A journalist working for Arabic TV news channel al-Jazeera has been arrested in Egypt for allegedly fabricating videos of police torturing suspects.

Huweida Taha Metwalli was stopped on her way to Qatar and 50 video tapes were found in her luggage, the Egyptian interior ministry said.

She is reportedly charged with "tarnishing Egypt’s reputation and harming Egyptian national interests".

Al-Jazeera said the tapes showed a "documentary reconstruction" by actors.

Human rights groups say it is not unusual for suspects to be tortured in Egyptian police stations.

Video of police apparently sexually assaulting a man provoked outrage when it appeared on the web last year.

Al-Jazeera’s representative in Egypt, Hussein Abdel-Ghani, said that reconstructing scenes with actors was "a well-known method in the production of documentaries and al-Jazeera is not the only network to talk about torture".

Last year, Egyptian man Imad Kabir was apparently filmed being sodomised with a stick in jail by police officers.

His lawyer says the alleged assault came after he intervened in a dispute between a policeman and his cousin.

The incident happened in January 2006 in Cairo’s Bulaq district, but the footage, apparently taken by one of the abusers, did not become public until November.

The case was taken up by Egyptian bloggers and members of the international human rights community.

Mr Kabir has since been imprisoned for three months in relation to the same incident for "resisting authority".

If they are going to start arresting reporters for fabricating stories the jails will soon be overflowing.

Here is Human Rights Watch doing what they do best, promoting terrorist propaganda:

Egypt: Hold Police Accountable for Torture

Police Who Sexually Assaulted Prisoner Should Be Prosecuted

(Cairo, December 23, 2006) – The Egyptian government must prosecute those responsible for beating and sexually assaulting a Cairo man in police custody last year, Human Rights Watch said today.

`Imad al-Kabir, a microbus driver from the Giza neighborhood of Bulaq al-Dakrur, told Human Rights Watch that two plainclothes officers detained him on January 18, 2006 after he intervened in an altercation between the officers and his cousin. Al-Kabir said that the officers first beat him on the street, then held him in the Bulaq police station, where officers – including at least two whom al-Kabir identified from the neighborhood – bound his arms and legs and severely whipped him. The officers then undressed him, raised his legs, and raped him with a stick while one videotaped the episode with a mobile phone. Police released al-Kabir after 36 hours without filing any charges against him.

“The people responsible for this disgusting crime must face justice,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. “The government should send the message that it won’t tolerate torture by police or any other officials.” …

Of course these same "human rights" groups are decrying the arrest of this journalist. So much for wanting justice.

Maybe there is some room in those jails for these groups who seem to only exist to enable terrorists.

 

[Sean]

She is reportedly charged with "tarnishing Egypt’s reputation and harming Egyptian national interests".

You don't need to fabricate stuff to do that.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Keep your C&P relevant to the thread, or make your own.

You can't stay on one fucking subject for more than two seconds, it's no wonder you know very little about anything.

 

[busybody..]

Its about "TORTURE" that isnt

made up

like all the shit about GITMO

Abu Gharib

etc

 

[Sean]

Its about "TORTURE" that isnt

made up

like all the shit about GITMO

Abu Gharib

etc

You ever read the Amnesty report on Egypt?

 

[busybody..]

I try not to read fiction!




































































no

Did AA ever do one on Cuba? Russia? Iran? The Pali territories?

 

[Sean]

I try not to read fiction!
no

Did AA ever do one on Cuba? Russia? Iran? The Pali territories?

Not sure about the occupied territories, but the others, yes.

 

[busybody..]

Cuba

Russia

etc?

really???????????????????????

 

[Sean]

Cuba

Russia

etc?

really???????????????????????

BB, Amnesty have been one of Cuba's most vociferous critics for over 20 years.

 

[busybody..]

surprised

Thx

 

[Sean]

surprised

Thx

Despite what the wingnuts say, AI isn't a left leaning org. It criticises human rights abuses where ever they occur.