Rating the presidents

[Colleen Thomas]

In reading some Regan stuff I saw where a poll was taken of historians & a smapling of the opoulation. Reagan was rated 16th best by the historians and 6th best by the people.

So I thought it would be fun to see how lit rates them. The poll was for all, but I am just going to give those in the 20th century. I would like this to be fun, and not a fight, so feel free to give your commentary or reasons, but please don't comment on other's opinions.

The Presidents in Chronolgical order:

1. T. Roosevelt
2. W.H. Taft
3. W.Wilson
4. W.G. Harding
5. C. Coolidge
6. H.Hoover
7. F.D. Roosevelt
8. H. Truman
9. D.D. Eisenhower
10. J.F. Kendey
11. L.B. Johnson
12. R. Nixon
13. G.Ford
14. J.Carter
15. R. Reagan
16. G. Bush
17. W. Clinton

My Rankings:

1. T.R Roosevelt: Effective administrator, world renowned figure and great leader.

2. F.D roosevelt: Strong leader, great administrator and leader during W.W.II.

3. W. Wilson: Principled, honest, and an able leader during the First Great war.

4. H. Truman: Honest, strong convictions and leader who showed his own gifts following one of the greatest of all time.

5. R. Regan: Strong leader. A man of vison and conviction.

6. W. H. Taft: Very strong, if often forgotten President.

7. C. Coolidge: Silent Cal was a strong if quiet leader, also largely forggoten by history since he had no great scandals.

8. D.D. Eisenhower.

9. J.F. Kennedy: So much potential and so many great ideas. It's a shame history has to judge him on what he hoped to accomplish rather than what he did before an assassin's bullet ended his promise.

10. G. Bush : An honest enough and I think decent man who freed Kuwait via a diplomatic coalition rather than unilateral force.

11.. R. Nixxon: His scandals were many, but he opened China and did a lot of good things while in office.

12. L. B Johnson: His great work in the civil right's field has to be balanced against his continued involvement in Vietnam and his shady dealings which bordered on the illegal at times.

13. G. Ford: Care taker president.

14.W. Clinton.

15. J. Carter. A good man, but weak president. Has done much more after his presidency for the good than he accomplished while in office.

16. H.Hoover: A good man, but totally incapable of the radical departures in thought needed to cope with the Great Depresssion.

17. W. G. Harding. Known for scandals & corruption. His own father said "It was a good thing Warren was born a man, cause he never learned how to say no."


Well, there are my rankings. I hope others will contribute. I had fun and hope everyone else will.

-Colly

 

[neonlyte]

This is difficult for a non-american and one who has only recently learnt to read. I can only post opinions from Kennedy onward.

Kennedy - unfullfilled 6 (legacy unknown)
Johnson - arogant 5
Nixon - detached 1 (For China)
Ford - mistake 8
Carter - floundering 4
Reagan - visionary 1 (For Russia)
Bush (Sr) - indecisive 3
Clinton - scoundral 7 (for womanizing)

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

Rating American Presidents?

So much for arbitrary rules!




George Washington – or the first King George of America would have been coronated in the 18th Century

Abraham Lincoln – who completed the work of the American Revolution for ALL citizens on “his watch.”

Franklin D. Roosevelt – who saved America for capitalism, set in place the New Deal, changed the face of America with the WPA, then led the country into its most daunting, necessary, and successful military challenge.

Dwight D. Eisenhower – not as president, rather as the Supreme Allied Commander of Operation Overlord.


For any president since Eisenhower, too short a time has elapsed for objective historical judgement to take place. Instead, personal popularity, party loyalties, and contemporary obfuscation still affect the issues.



From my own vision and prejudices:

Nixon stands out as a famous villain, although he did have several redeeming accomplishments in foreign affairs, and ecological legislation.

JFK – was a true leader in space exploration, and a steady hand during the Cuban Missile Crises (although documents recovered from Russian sources have recently demonstrated that Kruschev was equally active in warding off a nuclear exchange.)

LBJ – for his efforts to overcome the worst discrepancies between the entitled rich and the disenfranchised poor.

Reagan – who is presently awarded credit for “defeating communism” because it happened on his watch, was (at least) much responsible for easing relations at the time of communism’s passing.


Whether George W. Bush or Richard M. Nixon are eventually judged the worst American president, will — in my opinion — depend on whether “W” can secure a second term.

 

[Pure]

you want to think of who left the world a better and safer place, and the same for the US.

The soviet union disintegrated during Reagan's watch, and in part this was due to the pressure of insane 'defense' spending by the US. That possibly renders the world safer... except for the nukes that have disappeared, and a bit of plutonium.

But does the leaving of ticking time bombs count against a person?

As the world was thinking of the defeat of communism, the next loose grouping of enemies was forming--Islamists--and Reagan had not a clue. Beirut happened, and someone correct me, but the US did nothing except leave.

Reagan was the first to give unconditional support to the Israeli hawks. (Fuel for the Islamists). Bush continues.

Fights were picked with Libya, and there was some bombing, but the stats show that Libyan based terrorist struck MORE often after Reagan's measures.

Funding and support --including war materials for both;and poison gas for Saddam--began for both Osama and Saddam.

As Virtual says, too little time has passed, .... though enough that the Islamists gave the US its largest defeat, and largest number dead on US soil (by a foreign enemy), ever.

The Iraq war is the largest effort since Vietnam, right? Too early to tell, but Reagan's and Britains help in arming Saddam must have cost us something.

FDR, Truman, and even perhaps Eisenhower left the world better.

Ike, and again Kennedy/Johnson helped the domestic situation a lot, relieved Black Americans of oppresion to a small degree. That's gotta be worth something.

 

[shereads]

I'm afraid I don't know enough early-century history to rank these presidents, but of those I do know, here are the ones who are known to have sacrificed the lives of others to serve secret agendas:

For Axis of Evil Presidents, Chairman of the Board, I nominate Richard M. Nixon. To strengthen his chance at the presidency, he sent an emmisary to the North Vietnamese and offered to make them a better deal than Lyndon Johnson was offering at the Paris Peace Talks, if they would postpone signing a treaty until after the election.

Months of killing. Because Nixon was afraid the war might end under Johnson's watch.

Meanwhile, Nixon based his presidential campaign on a "secret plan to end the war." Americans aren't that gullible, though, so he lost the election and retired.

Just kidding. Voters were so curious to find out about the secret plan that they elected him. In their defense, they hadn't yet experienced a scandal about a president who lied at the risk of killing Americans, so they weren't as cautious as we are now.

20,000 lives or so after Nixon persueded the North Vietnamese not to sign a peace treaty, the war ended with a whimper and a bang: something called "Peace with Honor," wherein we skeedaddled out of there and left the wreckage of our long involvement behind for the locals to clean up.

Meanwhile, in Cambodia, America was not on anyone's list of most popular countries. Nixon had been bombing them (it was a secret, but not the one he had advertised) and Congress had its panties in a tangle because he had been lying to them about it (There used to be this "balance of powers" thing in the Constitution, and technically the president was supposed to have an honest discussion with Congress and then get their permission, before moving the war into a whole new country. I don't think we have that anymore.)

Bombings or no bombings, if the NY Times hadn't leaked the story, Congress wouldn't have been mad at Nixon and Cambodia might not have found out we were bombing them, and they wouldn't have hated us for it, and the Khmer Rouge might not have garnered the support they needed to carry out the post-war massacres described in the book and movie, The Killing Fields. (Damn liberal media.)

In addition to the double irony of Peace with Honor, Nixon gave us the term, "Vietnamization." Which meant we gradually removed some troops while making the Vietnamese take responsibility for their own civil war. (Idea!) I think we're planning the Vietnamization of Iraq on June 30. I hope it works out better than Peace with Honor, which took a long time and was fatal to a lot of people.

Tied for Vice-Chairmen of the Axis of Evil Presidents would have to be Lyndon Johnson, Bush I and - I'm sorry, but the funeral is almost over and I can't blame this one entirely on Bush I who was only V.P. when it started - the nice president. I gues someone can be nice and do evil deeds, because I don't know how else to explain this one. It's twofold: Iran-Contra (turned hostages into currency for middle-east terrorists; armed Iran; relied on Nixon's lying-to-Congress precedent and got away with it) and even worse, violating the international ban on trade with Saddam Hussein and trying to block a U.N. resolution condemning his use of chemical weapons against Iran. (This is not based on some theory I read in the liberal media, btw; it's directly from declassified documents released in 2003 under the Freedom of Information Act; I posted the link in the "Why Saddam didn't deserve your vote" thread.

For adultery scandals, I'd call it a tie among JFK, Clinton, and Eisenhower (yes, our boy is generally believed to have had a long love affair with the woman who acted as his wartime aide and driver.) This is only if we're excluding earlier presidents and specifically, our Founding Fathers. William Jefferson Clinton was named after another randy dawg, Thomas Jefferson, whose white heirs are gloomily accepting the fact of their shared DNA with descendants of Jefferson's slave, Sally Hemings.

Luckily for JFK, Clinton, Eisenhower and Thomas Jefferson, I don't count adultery scandals when I'm tallying points toward inclusion in my Axis of Evil Presidents. I'm sure they're relieved.



Edited to add: Nixon's other evil legacies, the "Enemies List" and "the Dirty Tricks Committee." The Watergate burglary was a project of the Dirty Tricks Committee. The Enemies List consisted of any American citizen who made the president feel persecuted or otherwise upset. As I understand it, the list was shared with J. Edgar Hoover at the FBI, whose job it was to dig up dirt on these people, plant phony stories about them in the press, sic the IRS on them, etc.

Yes, he went to China. So what? Did China reject Communism, apologize for their human rights violations and begin trading with the U.S.? No? One out of three? Well that's different then.

 

[Pure]

Speaking of sleazy tricks, the Tehran hostages that Carter couldn't figure out how to deal with, were freed under Reagan in his first month of office. I know it's paranoid, but are the Republican and Iranian ayatollahs connected?? Was there "I'll give you a better deal?"

Any evidence on this?
----------

Added: 6-10. I've found no evidence of Reagan's folks stalling the deal. There is some evidence of the Iranians stalling the actual flight out, of the hostages, till the first minutes of Reagan's reign. I.e, They didn't want Carter to save his ass or 'accomplish his mission' in office. Is it too much to think, however, that RR might one day return the favor?

 

[shereads]

Speaking of sleazy tricks, the Tehran hostages that Carter couldn't figure out how to deal with, were freed under Reagan in his first month of office. I know it's paranoid, but are the Republican and Iranian ayatollahs connected?? Was there "I'll give you a better deal?"

Any evidence on this?

Actually, the Tehran hostages were freed during Reagan's first MINUTE in office. Right after the Inauguration. I haven't bought into the rumor of a deal, because nobody has substantiated it. It's more likely that Iran wanted to embarrass Carter.

 

[Pure]

There's a nice day by day acct of Carter's efforts in 1980.

Though the deal--paying the Iranian 9 billion was made by Carter, my impression is that the students wished Carter NOT to benefit from it. IOW, RR was handed a freebie.

Speaking of 'ranking', Carter withdrew support for the Shah and went along with (and possibly the British engineered) the installation of the Ayatollah Khomeini. One source says he (and other Dems) thought he could work with the Khomeini.

In the history of "islamist" action, Carter (and co.) bears responsibility for this disastrous turn of events. (Perhaps the Shah was a lost cause, of course.) The support of the Shah is an action of a number of US presidents.

J.




http://www.whitehousehistory.org/04/subs/04_a03_a04.html


In the wee hours of Tuesday, January 20, [1981] came some promising news. The processes required to move the money through the proper channels were almost completed. Only a few small details were to be ironed out. At 6:35 a.m., Christopher sent a message: "All escrows were signed at 6:18. The Bank of England has certified that they hold $7.977 billion, the correct amount." Now the bank would send word to Algiers by telex or phone, which would notify Iran.

At 7:45 a.m., with messages still coming in fast and furious, Rosalyn Carter brought her husband a razor, telling him, "You need a shave." The barber was with her, to give Carter’s hair a trim before the inaugural ceremonies. Rosalyn remembered that as she was leaving the Oval Office to go back upstairs, Jimmy answered one more call, and then yelled out for everyone to hear: "Flight 133 is loaded and ready for take-off." Once more, there came elation, cheers, and hugs. At 8:04 a.m., Algeria confirmed that the bank certification was complete, and the Algerians were notifying Iran.

That was it! Every step was complete. Per the agreement, Iran would move to "immediately bring about the safe departure of the 52 nationals detained in Iran."15

Still Carter lingered in the Oval Office. Word had not yet come that the hostages had left the ground in Tehran. At 9:45 a.m., Christopher called one last time and told Carter takeoff would be by noon, but, as a security measure, the Iranian officials did not want the word released until the hostages were out of Iranian airspace. President Carter said the United States would comply.

Then Rosalyn came to the door, and said, "Jimmy, the Reagans will be here in fifteen minutes. You will have to put on your morning clothes and greet them."16

After the inauguration, a Secret Service agent pushed through the crowd at the U.S. Capitol to tell former president Jimmy Carter that at 12:33 p.m. the first plane carrying the hostages had taken off from Tehran, and the second one had left nine minutes later. President Ronald Reagan got the word at an inaugural luncheon. It was the first official announcement he would make to the American people. The hostages, on the 444th day of their captivity, were set free. The republic rejoiced!

 

[Blarneystoned]

Fun idea

1) Theodore Roosevelt --Rough Rider...Conservationist...I love the National Parks...Brought the Russo Japanese war to a close and brought us to the world stage as a major player....survived assassination attempt....Visionary that built the Panama Canal...and only served 4 years in office. The guy was awesome and everybody loves Teddy Bears..haha

2) Reagan ....Brought down the Soviet empire and did it with a smile. Gave pride back to Americans.

3) Truman...WWI hero...the buck stops here...What a morale dilemna to have to drop the bomb or not....true to his word no matter the costs...Ended the Pacific Theater and went back to his midwest farm. Class act.

4) FDR ---Conservation corp built our infrastructure and got us out of the depression...Strong visionary that despite his personal limitations brought America and the Allies to victory. 3 Terms..most impressive.


5) Wilson --I like the dime..haha. Seriously though I think he was ahead of his time with the league of nations...Brought us out of WWI with pride...but War to end Wars didnt hold long

6) George Bush SR--Strong Commander in chief..kind man...Freed Kuwait...wish he would have had 2 terms.

7) Ike...everybody likes Ike. Supreme Allied Commander. Nato Chief

8) Ford ...Cleaned up Nixons mess with a smile.

9) Nixon...brought the boys back from Nam...opened up china as a market...but sadly was paranoid...SALT treaty--Dick you would have won without Sabotage.

10) Taft...enforced Teddy's policies well..but turned his back on Teddy

11) Kennedy---Peace corp was a good idea...you didnt back down from the Russians...but you were a womanizer (.Jacquie deserved better) and you were funded by mafia bootleg liquor money....but the prohibition was a bad idea anyway...I dont like your brother Ted at all...not responsible for his actions...that girl that drowned deserved better

12)Hoover.....I love the damn...the FBI was a good idea...Fed the allies during WWI...consulted and respected by other Presidents

13)Carter...Poor President...nice guy..I like peanuts too...Habitat for Humanity is a great organization...

14) Coolidge --I like Babe Ruth...uneventful president

15)LBJ --Civil Rights Act was great...LBJ was crude ..holding conferences on the toilet is just not right for a president...let the politicians control and escalate Vietnam...

16)W G Harding --couldnt keep his pecker in his pants

17) Clinton...couldnt keep his pecker in his pants and poor commander in chief...

 

[shereads]

Re: Fun idea

Some of this is surprising!

6) George Bush SR--Strong Commander in chief..kind man...

You're not bothered by that business with the declassified documents that prove Bush Sr. and Reagan armed Saddam Hussein while he was using chemical weapons against Iran, and tried to help him avoid an embarrassing U.N. resolution? I thought you'd be livid about that! A man like you, so committed to eliminating that tyrant? I'm listening attentively while you explain why it was okay to help him gas people in the 80's, but not so okay for him to do it again in the 90's.

9) Nixon...brought the boys back from Nam...

The ones he didn't kill. Not much of a history buff, are you? It's documented, Blarney. He bribed North Vietnam to keep the war going so he could get elected. It was in all the left-wing newspapers, and some of the right-wing newspapers.

11) Kennedy---
I dont like your brother Ted at all...not responsible for his actions...that girl that drowned deserved better

She certainly did. Drunk drivers should be held accountable for the risk they take with the lives of others, shouldn't they. Did you know that George W. Bush's drunk driving arrest was not for "maybe driving too slow" as his press secretary said when his arrest was revealed during the election. According to the actual police report, he was observed driving erratically and then he crashed into a hedge. Someone could have been injured! Then we might not have had this effective Commander in Chief.

 

[thebullet]

Man, for an erotica site, you people sure have a low opinion of blowjobs.

Here is my list:
1. Teddy Roosevelt - progressive, brilliant, original thinker

2. F D Roosevelt - Gave America strength during the depression, then pulled the USA kicking and screaming into WWII. Supported England through its darkest hour while America was isolationist.

3. Harry Truman - Honesty counts for something

4. Bill Clinton - presided over the most prosperous period in American history, all the while dealing with a Republican party that did everything it could to destroy him. He made the Republicans look like fools. And he enjoyed an occasional blowjob.
Also: did good environmental work. Balanced the budget. Eliminated the federal deficit.

5. D D Eisenhower - Ike lead a prosperous and powerful America. Nationalized the Arkansas National Guard to support the integration of Little Rock. Defense spending led to inflationary times, however. Ike was a pragmatist and a non-idealogical president who knew how to run things from his time as a political general. They didn't even know what political party he was a member of until 1952. Both the Dems and the Republicans wanted to offer him the nomination.

6. Richard Nixon - through all off his faults (mostly rampant paranoia), he was a very successful president. It was under his watch that the Environmental Protection Agency came into being. He opened China to the West and began rapprochement with the USSR. By opening the big Communist countries to relations with the rest of the world, he was in essence laying the groundwork for the collapse of communism. I remember telling my wife in 1976 that communism was done: it would be killed by sex, drugs and rock and roll - blue jeans, the Beatles, cassette tapes, everything that is enticing and seductive about Western culture to populations that had to stand in line to buy bread. Now people give credit to Reagan, but communism was a paper tiger by the time Reagon got into office. And don't tell me that China is still communist. They are a major player in the international capatalist marketplace.

7. L B Johnson. This was a giant of a man, both in his successes and in his failures. Yes he created the welfare state that has been properly vilafied over the years. But he also was instrumental in improving race relations and passing legislation that began to redress some of the harm done to African-Americans in education and the work place. He ran with JFK's visions and NASA put a man on the moon by the end of the '60s.
And he got us sucked deeply into Viet Nam mostly because he was afraid of looking like a pussy to the conservatives.


8. John F Kennedy - He accomplished more by his death than he did during his presidency, but he gave America a sense of vigor and enthusiasm that had been sorely missing. He made America feel young and strong.

9. Woodrow Wilson - Idealist and was responsible for the League of Nations. But his illness came at the worst possible time, and America never joined the League because of opposition by Conservative isolationists, thus dooming the League of Nations to failure.

10. W H Taft. He was fat. He also had some success with anti-trust actions.

11. Gerald Ford. Caretaker but a nice guy.

12. Ronald Reagon - a pleasant old guy who was in way over his head. As long as his handlers fed him the lines, though, he handled himself well. I was one of those youthful conservatives who was electrified by 'the speech' in 1964. That's what Reagon did best, read someone else's words.

13. Herbert Hoover - He got stuck with being blamed for the Depression but it wasn't his fault. He tried lots of very progressive things to alleviate the pain, but the collapse was so tremendous that it would take a world war to pull the country out of the Depression doldrums. Anyway, HH wasn't a bad president, but he sure was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

14. G Bush - had the unenviable task of cleaning up after Reagon had blown the economy to smithereens with his outrageous spending. Got into Desert Storm; maybe he should have finished it, then his son wouldn't be up to his neck in doo-doo.

15. Cal Coolidge - 'the business of American is business' - this guy did practically nothing while in the White House. I think maybe GW Bush should learn from him - if you can't do something right, don't do it at all.

16. Jimmy Carter - the best ex-President we've had since WH Taft became Chief Justice. Unfortunately, like Taft, he had to spend some time as President to gain the title of 'ex-President'. That he fucked up.

17. Warren G. Harding - Not only was he a womanizer, he was an incompetant womanizer. His administration mostly noted for scandels like the Teapot Dome. Hey! Oilmen were slimy fucks even a hundred years ago.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Okay Colly, I'll play.

Armed with nothing more than hubris and a master degree in contemporary American History, I leap into the presidential ratings. In my list, I tried, with limited success, to only say something nice about each of the Presidents.

If weighed of some celestial scale of justice, about half-way down the list, the Presidential negatives would probably begin to outweigh the positives. Those of fixed convictions and moral certitudes are free draw their on line of sharp deliniation.

Rumple Foreskin

--

1. F.D. Roosevelt - got country through depression and WW II, estab. Soc Sec and electrified rural America

2. T. Roosevelt - gave people/gov some clout against big business and began conservation, won Nobel Peace Prize

3. H. Truman - ended WW II and avoided WW III

4. R. Reagan - made country feel good again and won cold war

5. D.D. Eisenhower - ended the Korean War and kept us out of any others.

6. W. Clinton - eight years of peace and prosperity

7. L.B. Johnson - second only it FDR on impacting social patterns with civil rights legislation and programs such as Head Start

8. W. Wilson - meant well

9. J.F. Kennedy - great style and first nuclear test ban treaty

10. R. Nixon - ended VN War (finally) and recognized China

11. J. Carter - made Human Rights a keystone of US foreign policy

12. G. Ford - managed the post-Watergate mess

13. G. Bush - won first Gulf War and passed Disabilities Act

14. W.H. Taft - more than filled TR's shoes

15. C. Coolidge - seldom spoke

16. H. Hoover - wasn't as bad as Harding

17. W.G. Harding - no worse than Grant

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

Man, for an erotica site, you people sure have a low opinion of blowjobs. ..

Dear Mr. Bullet,

I, at least, was rating presidents, not blow jobs. Had I been, I would have noted, for the record, that Monica Lewinsky didn’t swallow. A small point, but many men think it important.

I excluded William Jefferson Clinton, for the same reason I excluded G.W.H. Bush, and President Bush, the Lesser. They are all of too recent a vintage for any clear, unbiased, historical assessment to be made.

As for any problem with the Clinton presidency, I don’t judge the morals of a president. Where he dipped his presidential marker is a personal consideration, uncounted, but the marks made while working for the public weal, are counted. It certainly seems that his achievements made for the nation were enviable, but distance often highlights what passed unnoticed.

For example, Richard Nixon – though a decidedly inferior president, in my opinion – does, as you noted, have an enviable record on the environment. Who knew then?

 

[shereads]

Man, for an erotica site, you people sure have a low opinion of blowjobs.

Not at all! I've given that episode a lot of thought, and while I applaud Bill's ability to carry on a telephone conversation without losing his train of thought, I feel a little badly for Monica. I'd turn in my merit badge if I couldn't...Nevermind.

I meant to say that I'm impressed with the amount of knowledge behind your choices. It's true that Nixon made some environmental progress, and it might be the one thing Republicans fault him for; God knows, they've tried hard enough to weaken the EPA, which they should have celebrated it as his legacy. But It's hard for me to credit Nixon with anything when I know what he did to get elected. His secret dealings with the North Vietnamese made Jane Fonda look like Betsy Ross.

He was brilliant as Anthony Hopkins, though.



I'm also grateful that you didn't credit Ford with cleaning up Nixon's mess. Gerald Ford himself has said that the greatest regret of his political career was his pardon of Nixon. I've often wondered how different the country might be if we had seen justice done after the long, slow torture of Watergate.

This is a keeper:

17. Warren G. Harding - Not only was he a womanizer, he was an incompetant womanizer. His administration mostly noted for scandels like the Teapot Dome. Hey! Oilmen were slimy fucks even a hundred years ago. [/B]

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Okay Colly, I'll play.

Armed with nothing more than hubris and a master degree in contemporary American History, I leap into the presidential ratings. In my list, I tried, with limited success, to only say something nice about each of the Presidents.

If weighed of some celestial scale of justice, about half-way down the list, the Presidential negatives would probably begin to outweigh the positives. Those of fixed convictions and moral certitudes are free draw their on line of sharp deliniation.

Rumple Foreskin

--

1. F.D. Roosevelt - got country through depression and WW II, estab. Soc Sec and electrified rural America

2. T. Roosevelt - gave people/gov some clout against big business and began conservation, won Nobel Peace Prize

3. H. Truman - ended WW II and avoided WW III

4. R. Reagan - made country feel good again and won cold war

5. D.D. Eisenhower - ended the Korean War and kept us out of any others.

6. W. Clinton - eight years of peace and prosperity

7. L.B. Johnson - second only it FDR on impacting social patterns with civil rights legislation and programs such as Head Start

8. W. Wilson - meant well

9. J.F. Kennedy - great style and first nuclear test ban treaty

10. R. Nixon - ended VN War (finally) and recognized China

11. J. Carter - made Human Rights a keystone of US foreign policy

12. G. Ford - managed the post-Watergate mess

13. G. Bush - won first Gulf War and passed Disabilities Act

14. W.H. Taft - more than filled TR's shoes

15. C. Coolidge - seldom spoke

16. H. Hoover - wasn't as bad as Harding

17. W.G. Harding - no worse than Grant

Thank's Rumple. I notice we both had JFK ninth. Did you get to Kennedy and then have to start really groping? I found 1 through 5 to be very easy, with only a slight bit of hesitation between T.R. & F.D.R. I put Kenedy ninth based as much on what he hoped to accomplish as what he did accomplish. We also had Hoover & Harding as 16th & 17th.

-Colly

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Man, for an erotica site, you people sure have a low opinion of blowjobs.

Here is my list:
1. Teddy Roosevelt - progressive, brilliant, original thinker

2. F D Roosevelt - Gave America strength during the depression, then pulled the USA kicking and screaming into WWII. Supported England through its darkest hour while America was isolationist.

3. Harry Truman - Honesty counts for something

4. Bill Clinton - presided over the most prosperous period in American history, all the while dealing with a Republican party that did everything it could to destroy him. He made the Republicans look like fools. And he enjoyed an occasional blowjob.
Also: did good environmental work. Balanced the budget. Eliminated the federal deficit.

5. D D Eisenhower - Ike lead a prosperous and powerful America. Nationalized the Arkansas National Guard to support the integration of Little Rock. Defense spending led to inflationary times, however. Ike was a pragmatist and a non-idealogical president who knew how to run things from his time as a political general. They didn't even know what political party he was a member of until 1952. Both the Dems and the Republicans wanted to offer him the nomination.

6. Richard Nixon - through all off his faults (mostly rampant paranoia), he was a very successful president. It was under his watch that the Environmental Protection Agency came into being. He opened China to the West and began rapprochement with the USSR. By opening the big Communist countries to relations with the rest of the world, he was in essence laying the groundwork for the collapse of communism. I remember telling my wife in 1976 that communism was done: it would be killed by sex, drugs and rock and roll - blue jeans, the Beatles, cassette tapes, everything that is enticing and seductive about Western culture to populations that had to stand in line to buy bread. Now people give credit to Reagan, but communism was a paper tiger by the time Reagon got into office. And don't tell me that China is still communist. They are a major player in the international capatalist marketplace.

7. L B Johnson. This was a giant of a man, both in his successes and in his failures. Yes he created the welfare state that has been properly vilafied over the years. But he also was instrumental in improving race relations and passing legislation that began to redress some of the harm done to African-Americans in education and the work place. He ran with JFK's visions and NASA put a man on the moon by the end of the '60s.
And he got us sucked deeply into Viet Nam mostly because he was afraid of looking like a pussy to the conservatives.


8. John F Kennedy - He accomplished more by his death than he did during his presidency, but he gave America a sense of vigor and enthusiasm that had been sorely missing. He made America feel young and strong.

9. Woodrow Wilson - Idealist and was responsible for the League of Nations. But his illness came at the worst possible time, and America never joined the League because of opposition by Conservative isolationists, thus dooming the League of Nations to failure.

10. W H Taft. He was fat. He also had some success with anti-trust actions.

11. Gerald Ford. Caretaker but a nice guy.

12. Ronald Reagon - a pleasant old guy who was in way over his head. As long as his handlers fed him the lines, though, he handled himself well. I was one of those youthful conservatives who was electrified by 'the speech' in 1964. That's what Reagon did best, read someone else's words.

13. Herbert Hoover - He got stuck with being blamed for the Depression but it wasn't his fault. He tried lots of very progressive things to alleviate the pain, but the collapse was so tremendous that it would take a world war to pull the country out of the Depression doldrums. Anyway, HH wasn't a bad president, but he sure was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

14. G Bush - had the unenviable task of cleaning up after Reagon had blown the economy to smithereens with his outrageous spending. Got into Desert Storm; maybe he should have finished it, then his son wouldn't be up to his neck in doo-doo.

15. Cal Coolidge - 'the business of American is business' - this guy did practically nothing while in the White House. I think maybe GW Bush should learn from him - if you can't do something right, don't do it at all.

16. Jimmy Carter - the best ex-President we've had since WH Taft became Chief Justice. Unfortunately, like Taft, he had to spend some time as President to gain the title of 'ex-President'. That he fucked up.

17. Warren G. Harding - Not only was he a womanizer, he was an incompetant womanizer. His administration mostly noted for scandels like the Teapot Dome. Hey! Oilmen were slimy fucks even a hundred years ago.

Thanks bullet. Having struggled a bit between TR & FDR myself, might I ask Why you gave TR the nod as I did?

-Colly

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Re: Fun idea

1) Theodore Roosevelt --Rough Rider...Conservationist...I love the National Parks...Brought the Russo Japanese war to a close and brought us to the world stage as a major player....survived assassination attempt....Visionary that built the Panama Canal...and only served 4 years in office. The guy was awesome and everybody loves Teddy Bears..haha

2) Reagan ....Brought down the Soviet empire and did it with a smile. Gave pride back to Americans.

3) Truman...WWI hero...the buck stops here...What a morale dilemna to have to drop the bomb or not....true to his word no matter the costs...Ended the Pacific Theater and went back to his midwest farm. Class act.

4) FDR ---Conservation corp built our infrastructure and got us out of the depression...Strong visionary that despite his personal limitations brought America and the Allies to victory. 3 Terms..most impressive.


5) Wilson --I like the dime..haha. Seriously though I think he was ahead of his time with the league of nations...Brought us out of WWI with pride...but War to end Wars didnt hold long

6) George Bush SR--Strong Commander in chief..kind man...Freed Kuwait...wish he would have had 2 terms.

7) Ike...everybody likes Ike. Supreme Allied Commander. Nato Chief

8) Ford ...Cleaned up Nixons mess with a smile.

9) Nixon...brought the boys back from Nam...opened up china as a market...but sadly was paranoid...SALT treaty--Dick you would have won without Sabotage.

10) Taft...enforced Teddy's policies well..but turned his back on Teddy

11) Kennedy---Peace corp was a good idea...you didnt back down from the Russians...but you were a womanizer (.Jacquie deserved better) and you were funded by mafia bootleg liquor money....but the prohibition was a bad idea anyway...I dont like your brother Ted at all...not responsible for his actions...that girl that drowned deserved better

12)Hoover.....I love the damn...the FBI was a good idea...Fed the allies during WWI...consulted and respected by other Presidents

13)Carter...Poor President...nice guy..I like peanuts too...Habitat for Humanity is a great organization...

14) Coolidge --I like Babe Ruth...uneventful president

15)LBJ --Civil Rights Act was great...LBJ was crude ..holding conferences on the toilet is just not right for a president...let the politicians control and escalate Vietnam...

16)W G Harding --couldnt keep his pecker in his pants

17) Clinton...couldnt keep his pecker in his pants and poor commander in chief...

Thanks Blarney. Aside from TR were didn't agree on much, but the idea was to see how they fell out with litizens

-Colly

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Rating American Presidents?

So much for arbitrary rules!




George Washington – or the first King George of America would have been coronated in the 18th Century

Abraham Lincoln – who completed the work of the American Revolution for ALL citizens on “his watch.”

Franklin D. Roosevelt – who saved America for capitalism, set in place the New Deal, changed the face of America with the WPA, then led the country into its most daunting, necessary, and successful military challenge.

Dwight D. Eisenhower – not as president, rather as the Supreme Allied Commander of Operation Overlord.


For any president since Eisenhower, too short a time has elapsed for objective historical judgement to take place. Instead, personal popularity, party loyalties, and contemporary obfuscation still affect the issues.



From my own vision and prejudices:

Nixon stands out as a famous villain, although he did have several redeeming accomplishments in foreign affairs, and ecological legislation.

JFK – was a true leader in space exploration, and a steady hand during the Cuban Missile Crises (although documents recovered from Russian sources have recently demonstrated that Kruschev was equally active in warding off a nuclear exchange.)

LBJ – for his efforts to overcome the worst discrepancies between the entitled rich and the disenfranchised poor.

Reagan – who is presently awarded credit for “defeating communism” because it happened on his watch, was (at least) much responsible for easing relations at the time of communism’s passing.


Whether George W. Bush or Richard M. Nixon are eventually judged the worst American president, will — in my opinion — depend on whether “W” can secure a second term.

Nixon will never make it into the running for worst president. With Harding & Grant in the running, he is out of his league. W has some serious scandal mongering and corruption he will have to accomplish to even enter the running.

It is almost as difficult to get into the running for worst president as it is best president. A county will produce only so many Lincolns, Jeffersons, & Washingtons. It will produce significantly more Grants & hardings, but in general these men will find a way to sabotage themselves long before they get to public office, much less the presidency.

-Colly

 

[CharleyH]

11.. R. Nixxon: His scandals were many, but he opened China and did a lot of good things while in office.

14.W. Clinton.


-Colly

Like Nixon, Clinton did a lot of things in his office, didn't he?

 

[amicus]

An interesting idea for a subject, Colleen....

Not that it matters, but, I personally appreciate the intelligence, education and highly literate nature of many who post, and the time, thought and research so evident.

The history of the American Presidency, indeed, the American Nation, from colonalization on, is, to me, a fantastic journey.

A knowledge of the historical events preceding and surrounding each President, is necessary, I think, to have an understanding of each one.

It is also imperative, I think, to take into consideration the 'political climate' of the times, economic conditions, natural, environmental circumstances and long trending social, economic, industrial, military issues.

In other words, I envision the task of 'rating' a President as almost overwhelming if one desires to be objective and transcend partisan politics and personal preferences.

Two other important aspects are: that the vote of the People determine who serves, thus, it is as much a rating of the people as it is of the man chosen to lead. Secondly, the entrenched civil employees, who are (now) protected in their jobs, regardless of the Party or the President in office.

There is of course, the relationship between political parties and business and industry. Always a great influence on American politics, the military/industrial hub, the monetary influence, the Labor and Union participation, local and State political servants and appointee's.

If one is caught up in the 92 percent that always vote for one party, (most recent, 46% Republican, 46% Democrat) then any rating of Presidents will most likely follow party lines.

I am not shy about admitting that I love the concept and the existence of the United States of America. It is not the 'plurality' or the 'diversity' per se, that I so admire, rather it is the concept of 'individual freedom', as expressed and codified in the founding documents and early history of this country.

From the beginning there has been a split between those who wished a European style Monarchy, or other form of benevolent ruler who 'paternally' led the people, and those who wanted, 'freedom' according to the letter, law and spirit of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

I am of the latter persuasion. Thus, in judging and rating Presidents, I give high stature to those who acted to maintain and extend that individual liberty.

That leaves much room for debate and explanation, but at least it is a beginning.

Thus, a President who 'confiscates' land, held in trust for the 'people' and makes it a 'National Park' is not held in high regard.

A President who enacts legislation to create 'social programs', the Roosevelts, Kennedy, Johnson, Clinton, of the modern era, are also seen as not respecting individual rights. Even Eisenhower with the massive highway program, or Hoover and his dam, those who advocate 'National' health plans, 'National' public education systems are at odds with the basic intent of the founding documents of this Nation.

It still is an alien idea to most, that the function of Government is only to 'protect' the innate rights of the People. Nothing more, the Government is to 'protect' not provide. A free people, protected by Government, act in their own self interest.

They have done so, in America, and in a short 300 years, through freedom of choice and enterprise, and have moved this nation to a place never occupied by any other nation in history.

Am I proud? You bet your ass.

Amicus

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Re: Re: Rating the presidents

Like Nixon, Clinton did a lot of things in his office, didn't he?

I am bad about taking pot shots at Clinton. However, Sher's graciousness over the death of Reagan (my favorite modern president) has shamed me. I would hope, that I was as gracious to her, should something unexpected happen to Clinton, her favorite).

At the very least, her grace and compassion have earned a Quid Pro Quo. I rated Clinton low in my list, in part because I am not objective when it comes to him and in part because he was pretty ineffective in his second term and left no legacy. I am however aware of and took into account that he faced a house & senate that held enough republicans who hated him with such passion they would not have supported Clinton introduced legislation reguardless of it's intent. I am also aware that GWB has worked pretty effectively to undo any legacy Clinton might have built with such acts as abbrogation of the Kyoto accords.

In my own estimation presidents fall into three general Groups. The Great ones. The Awful ones. And the Caretakers. I think hisotry will probaly consign Clinton to the caretaker's category. That isn't too strange, considering most presidents fall into that category. Of our 17 20th Century presidents I think only TR & FDR would be concensus great presidents. I think Reagan, Truman, Wilson, and JFK are cusp guys. Where strong arguments can be made for their inclusion in the greats, but I don't think they are quite there. Likewise, Harding is probably the only concensus Awful president. Hoover, Carter, and Nixon are all cusp guys there. With strong arguments for their inclusion in the hall of shame, but not, I think, a consensus.

I probably should have limited the selection to modern presidents, as I think the early centruy presidents intimidated some people. I tend to forget not everyone has studied history like I have. But it has been fun so far and I hope more people will give their rankings.

-Colly

Edited to add: I would particularly like to see more people like neon who aren't americans weigh in. While no less subjective I think the opinions of people outside the U.S. would be very enlightening.

 

[Liar]

10. W H Taft. He was fat.

Since you place him in pretty much the middle of the list, I gotta ask, is that a good or a bad thing?

Me? I couldn't rate presidents to save my life. And I'm constantly amazed how you people over there give so much credit (or discredit) to, and put so much trust in the hands of one single person.

#L

 

[Colleen Thomas]

An interesting idea for a subject, Colleen....

Not that it matters, but, I personally appreciate the intelligence, education and highly literate nature of many who post, and the time, thought and research so evident.

The history of the American Presidency, indeed, the American Nation, from colonalization on, is, to me, a fantastic journey.

A knowledge of the historical events preceding and surrounding each President, is necessary, I think, to have an understanding of each one.

It is also imperative, I think, to take into consideration the 'political climate' of the times, economic conditions, natural, environmental circumstances and long trending social, economic, industrial, military issues.

In other words, I envision the task of 'rating' a President as almost overwhelming if one desires to be objective and transcend partisan politics and personal preferences.

Two other important aspects are: that the vote of the People determine who serves, thus, it is as much a rating of the people as it is of the man chosen to lead. Secondly, the entrenched civil employees, who are (now) protected in their jobs, regardless of the Party or the President in office.

There is of course, the relationship between political parties and business and industry. Always a great influence on American politics, the military/industrial hub, the monetary influence, the Labor and Union participation, local and State political servants and appointee's.

If one is caught up in the 92 percent that always vote for one party, (most recent, 46% Republican, 46% Democrat) then any rating of Presidents will most likely follow party lines.

I am not shy about admitting that I love the concept and the existence of the United States of America. It is not the 'plurality' or the 'diversity' per se, that I so admire, rather it is the concept of 'individual freedom', as expressed and codified in the founding documents and early history of this country.

From the beginning there has been a split between those who wished a European style Monarchy, or other form of benevolent ruler who 'paternally' led the people, and those who wanted, 'freedom' according to the letter, law and spirit of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

I am of the latter persuasion. Thus, in judging and rating Presidents, I give high stature to those who acted to maintain and extend that individual liberty.

That leaves much room for debate and explanation, but at least it is a beginning.

Thus, a President who 'confiscates' land, held in trust for the 'people' and makes it a 'National Park' is not held in high regard.

A President who enacts legislation to create 'social programs', the Roosevelts, Kennedy, Johnson, Clinton, of the modern era, are also seen as not respecting individual rights. Even Eisenhower with the massive highway program, or Hoover and his dam, those who advocate 'National' health plans, 'National' public education systems are at odds with the basic intent of the founding documents of this Nation.

It still is an alien idea to most, that the function of Government is only to 'protect' the innate rights of the People. Nothing more, the Government is to 'protect' not provide. A free people, protected by Government, act in their own self interest.

They have done so, in America, and in a short 300 years, through freedom of choice and enterprise, and have moved this nation to a place never occupied by any other nation in history.

Am I proud? You bet your ass.

Amicus

Patisan politics doesn't play as much of a role in rating them as you might think. 3 of my top 5 are democrats. Greatness does indeed have much to do with circumstance, but great leaders, reguardless of their party, rise to the occasion. Being a great president, or a bad president knows no political party.

How you rate them, and why,is all part of the fun of doing this. As I stated in the begining I don't want a political debate, just something fun that I think all can enjoy.

I will pick on some people here who probably won't even look at this thread, but if Lou Lou were to google the presidents and rate her list based on how good they look like they would be in bed, that's every bit as acceptable as my ratings or anyone elses. If Svenska, who likes well endowed men rate's them by the size of their willy, good on her.

The whole point of this thread was fun and NOT to become a political thread. There are ton's of threads out there for politics and frankly I am prety sick of politics right now. This is purely for fun and to see how people rate the presidents. No one's system is any more or less valid than anyone elses.

-Colly

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

... presidents fall into three general Groups. The Great ones. The Awful ones. And the Caretakers. ... Reagan, Truman, Wilson, and JFK are cusp guys. ... I don't think they are quite there. ..

Colly,

I was unable to judge presidents of the last half century, due to brevity of time for their records to resolve from the swirl of current events. Since you did, I wonder at your reluctance to include JFK in the list of Great Presidents.

Whatever else we learn about what was really going on during the Cuban Missile Crises, one thing is already quite clear. The entire world was very close to a nuclear exchange which could have changed life on this planet, as we know it, possibly even the eradication of all life. That Kennedy exerted a calming influence on America’s war hawks, is public record.

What is emerging out of recently available Russian documents, is that the brinkmanship of that event was far more dire than we knew before. For example, there were four Russian nuclear submarines off the east coast, whose skippers had been given permission to fire their missiles, without recourse to Moscow.

Consider some of the less steady cold warriors who have occupied that office. What would have happened, had the crises occurred on their watch?

Some of the credit must go to the steady hand of Kruschev, in Moscow, also working for a way out of the impasse. There are still a few pieces missing, for historians to piece together a fully accurate account of the events.

However, John F. Kennedy – for Americans – was tested by the most severe crises of the nuclear age, and brought us through without any nearby mushroom clouds. I think that’s pretty Great!

If Svenska, who likes well endowed men rate's them by the size of their willy, good on her.

In passing, how could such an appraisal be managed? Quite a few of them would probably encounter difficulty ... er ... deploying the equipment to be rated — even amongst the living presidents!

 

[Guest]

Anecdote re. the Cuban missile crisis

I was in a Catholic girls high-school. During my art (fave) class my favourite nun/teacher called us to stand around her. I could not understand much of what she said except for the last part where she told us that there was a real possibility that we could all be dead within the day (not how she put it, but that was the point). She was not trying to scare us but to prepare us. It was extremely frightening, and I felt so sad thinking I might die at 15, but I was glad to be with her and my girlfriends, and in that place (the art studio) then. I've never forgotten that moment.

Perdita