Rapid changes to an older story's score

[Lathanar1]

Just a curiosity question, see if anyone else has run into a similar situation so I have some context for what I am noticing. Last year I finished up my first attempt at a book. It has issues, lots of them when I re-read through it all, but the ratings were decent so I decided to go for book two. I imagine I am not alone with new authors at watching the story ratings after a few days of being published, but I noticed something odd two weeks ago with the last chapter of the first book. It had been sitting with the highest rating of the entire book, but every day it was taking a hit. In the two week period, every chapter of the book has received 4-5 new ratings that left the scores where they've been, but the last chapter has over 20 new votes, mostly bad according to the score change. Just curious if this is a usual pattern?

 

[Smuttyandfun]

I had the exact same experience. I wrote a six chapter story, 'One Look,' that did pretty well. The last chapter has been out for a few years, and the score was always around 4.87 or 4.88. Just in the last few weeks the score has been steadily dropping, and as of today it's at 4.68. I sent a few emails and asked what was happening, but no one has responded. It's frustrating, because obviously it's getting hit pretty hard, and I can't understand who is doing it, or why.

 

[NotWise]

I just glanced at your catalog, and some of the scores are so high that it would be hard for them to go anywhere but down.

I wonder if the same thing is happening in Novels and Novellas that's happened in Romance and Lesbian Love. The top lists for both of those categories have come under systematic attack.

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

The older folks probably know better, but the site periodically does sweeps where they remove scores that are preceived by some funky behind the scenes algorithm to be questionable scores. Usually this nukes the folks who go through entire channels and just one star everything because they're twits, but it can also hit 5 star scores, too.

Since the site allows anonymous voting, this especially happens any time we're near the end of an event. Pink Orchid is just wrapping up and so is the April Fool's contest, so it's likely there are sweeps happening, and that could be impacting the scores.

It doesn't matter how old the story is, or even if it's part of an event, it still happens. I had all my scores go up significantly a few days ago, and I think they did a sweep that nuked some of the malefactors who one star every interracial story every day.

 

[RejectReality]

I doubt that you made the all-time topist in Novels and Novellas/Sci-Fi&Fantasy/overall, because that's a 100 vote minimum, and that's not easy to do in those categories. The overall may be higher, and the novels one lower... I haven't checked that in a long time and don't remember. Anyway, you've got a couple of years in, and a nice long story to gather followers, but that's still a tall order. Since the 30 day and 12 month overall topists don't really attract trolls the way the all-time one does, I doubt it was toplist manipulation.

Those categories don't really attract trolls absent getting on the toplist and running into jealous fans of other authors. So that seems unlikely to be the reason for a bombing run.

The most likely thing is that it's worse than it looks. If you do the math on low vote total stories, ( as best you can without actual vote values ) you often discover that it wasn't 1-bombs, but rather 3s or 4s that tanked your score. Remember, any time your score is higher than 4.0, any vote that isn't 5 reduces your score.

Piss anybody off in the forum lately? LOL There are some people who can't win a war of words and decide to hurl turds at your stories as revenge for making them look like idiots.

And, you always have to take into consideration that maybe people just didn't like it. Maybe you hit some taboo that made folks cringe. ( Seems unlikely with the tolerant readers in those categories ) Maybe you had something turn out in a way that people didn't expect, or don't like. That is a distinct possibility in those heavily story-driven categories.

Double check your math, take in any comments or questions you had about the direction you turned the story, and know that you're hardly alone. The way the toplists are being beaten to death in recent days, there's some folks out there who want to watch the whole world burn.

On an aside: Why are you category hopping between Sci-Fi&Fantasy and N&N? If you're concerned about no-sex chapters or chapters that don't necessarily contain any fantastic elements, don't worry about it. The readers in S&F are perfectly fine with that, as long as the story as a whole is in a setting not our own world. It's a story-driven category, so sex-lite is just fine and dandy with them as well.

You'll have much better retention and engagement sticking to S&F. The readerships here on Lit are very tribal. Folks don't wander much outside their preferred stomping grounds. A chapter ending up somewhere else can cause them to shrug and abandon a story, especially if the gap is too long between releases. Those who are following you or the story specifically because they're already engaged aren't the problem. It's the casual and not completely hooked readers you have to worry about, and there's a lot more of them. Those are the people you want to convert to the first type of reader, and category hopping is not conducive to that.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Just curious if this is a usual pattern?

Pretty much. It's a little strange that a last chapter of a much longer thing would see a big kick up in activity, though. Usually the View and Vote counts settles down around chapter three, then there's a much slower decline towards the last chapter. But you don't say whether or not the most recent chapter is consistent with the previous chapters or not.

As the others say, the site runs regular sweeps during contests, which trawl through everyone's stories, regardless whether you have a contest entry. The aim is to purge votes assessed by the site to be suspect. However, don't speculate how it's done - suffice to say, your Vote count usually drops, and your score picks up a bit.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

I had the exact same experience. I wrote a six chapter story, 'One Look,' that did pretty well. The last chapter has been out for a few years, and the score was always around 4.87 or 4.88. Just in the last few weeks the score has been steadily dropping, and as of today it's at 4.68. I sent a few emails and asked what was happening, but no one has responded. It's frustrating, because obviously it's getting hit pretty hard, and I can't understand who is doing it, or why.

I just checked and the score just dropped again. This happened a few years ago, and 95% of my stories had their scores drop. I do not score my own work, and I don't touch anyone else's, so I think it's pretty unfair that the site has decided to drop scores for no reason.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I just checked and the score just dropped again. This happened a few years ago, and 95% of my stories had their scores drop. I do not score my own work, and I don't touch anyone else's, so I think it's pretty unfair that the site has decided to drop scores for no reason.

The reason is the sweeps process, which can remove suspect high scores as well as suspect low scores.

Sometimes writers have fan groups who give them "unhelpful fives", but there's not much a writer can do about that, except to say, "Please don't," if they suspect it.

Here's the thing, though - everyone's stories go through the same process, so in that sense, it's fair. Sure, some writers don't like it, or don't understand that it goes on - but nobody gets treated differently. All stories get swept.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

The reason is the sweeps process, which can remove suspect high scores as well as suspect low scores.

Sometimes writers have fan groups who give them "unhelpful fives", but there's not much a writer can do about that, except to say, "Please don't," if they suspect it.

Here's the thing, though - everyone's stories go through the same process, so in that sense, it's fair. Sure, some writers don't like it, or don't understand that it goes on - but nobody gets treated differently. All stories get swept.

I could agree if it was just one or two stories, but last time they dumped on almost every single story I'd written, and now it's happening again. If I was screwing around with other writer's scores, or had anyone helping me with mine, I could understand it. But this is ridiculous, because I do not mess with the scores. I write, and they don't even bother to respond to say it's just something they do to even things up.

And why is it the top scoring in every category haven't been touched. I hate to take it personally, but I'm starting to.

 

[ElectricBlue]

And why is it the top scoring in every category haven't been touched. I hate to take it personally, but I'm starting to.

That's a fatal flaw. Ask yourself why you would be so special that you're being targeted by the site. Why would they bother? Nobody's that special.

It's more likely to be shenanigans by a group of readers, not the site.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I could agree if it was just one or two stories, but last time they dumped on almost every single story I'd written, and now it's happening again. If I was screwing around with other writer's scores, or had anyone helping me with mine, I could understand it. But this is ridiculous, because I do not mess with the scores. I write, and they don't even bother to respond to say it's just something they do to even things up.

And why is it the top scoring in every category haven't been touched. I hate to take it personally, but I'm starting to.

My entire catalog gets routinely bombed. Someone gets butthurt with me in the forum and 10 mins later my entire catalog gets a 1. Happened twice in the past couple of weeks alone.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

I don't think it's just me. But since it keeps happening, and every high rated story I have has been dumped on, it's kind of hard not to wonder why. I know I'm venting, but it is annoying because I don't have any control over how my stories are scored, or whatever comments the readers want to leave. I just write and hope for the best, and I'm always pleasantly surprised if a story does well. But now I know that it'll only last until the site decides to another sweep and drop my scores.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

My entire catalog gets routinely bombed. Someone gets butthurt with me in the forum and 10 mins later my entire catalog gets a 1. Happened twice in the past couple of weeks alone.

My scores have been dropping in the last few weeks, and I rarely comment on here. So, I've got a feeling it's a sweep, and I got hit again. Such is life I guess. But it is annoying.

 

[RejectReality]

Have you looked at the toplists lately? Everything on the site has been getting firebombed for a while. Somebody ( many somebodys, really ) wants to watch the world burn. It just takes them longer to burn the stuff with really high vote totals, but burn it they are. Only the top 20 scores on the all-time toplist are above 4.9, and let me tell you, historically, that's insane. You couldn't get on page 1 with anything less than a 4.94 for most of the time I've been here, never mind the top 20.

Stories with thousands of votes that have been above 4.9 for over a decade are suddenly several ticks below it.

Thing is, it's so bloody universal that it's barely changing the rankings. Everything is approximately where it's always been, just .05-.10 lower.

 

[Lathanar1]

It's not a sweep, unless sweeps add votes?

But you don't say whether or not the most recent chapter is consistent with the previous chapters or not.

The activity I'm seeing is that the book is 15 chapters. Chapter 1 through 14 all gained the expected couple of votes (4-7 new votes) and scores did not change. Only the last chapter got over 20 new votes. It's been out a year and in the last two weeks gained a 10% increase in the number of votes while the number of reads increased inline with what's expected (chapter 1 was the highest, and it trailed off as the chapters went on). The new book chapters are doing about as well as expected. (I had a 1 star bomber but they stopped.) It's an outlier in activity. I was just trying to understand it.

 

[RejectReality]

It's not a sweep, unless sweeps add votes?


The activity I'm seeing is that the book is 15 chapters. Chapter 1 through 14 all gained the expected couple of votes (4-7 new votes) and scores did not change. Only the last chapter got over 20 new votes. It's been out a year and in the last two weeks gained a 10% increase in the number of votes while the number of reads increased inline with what's expected (chapter 1 was the highest, and it trailed off as the chapters went on). The new book chapters are doing about as well as expected. (I had a 1 star bomber but they stopped.) It's an outlier in activity. I was just trying to understand it.

Not everyone votes on every chapter. There are some who wait and vote on the story as a whole on the final chapter. This is particularly common on Sci-Fi&Fantasy tales. It's one of the quirks of the readership. Almost all of mine there consistently have a significant bump in the number of votes on the final chapter.

Blackhawk Hall 01 - 436 votes
Blackhawk Hall 05 - 364 votes
Blackhawk Hall 06 - 444 votes Final chapter has more votes than the first.

Lowborn 01 - 652
Lowborn 09 - 517
Lowborn 10 - 677 Same as Blackhawk. More votes on the finale than the first.

One Whores Town 01 - 89
One Whores Town 08 - 94
One Whores Town 09 - 108 Ditto, though it was really consistent due to a twice a week release schedule. Lowborn was the same. Blackhawk was more sporadic, and that's reflected in the dropoff with Ch. 05.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

Have you looked at the toplists lately? Everything on the site has been getting firebombed for a while. Somebody ( many somebodys, really ) wants to watch the world burn. It just takes them longer to burn the stuff with really high vote totals, but burn it they are. Only the top 20 scores on the all-time toplist are above 4.9, and let me tell you, historically, that's insane. You couldn't get on page 1 with anything less than a 4.94 for most of the time I've been here, never mind the top 20.

Stories with thousands of votes that have been above 4.9 for over a decade are suddenly several ticks below it.

Thing is, it's so bloody universal that it's barely changing the rankings. Everything is approximately where it's always been, just .05-.10 lower.

I think it's the site dropping the scores. Which seems strange. A story scores well, because the readers obviously enjoyed it, and the site decides, 'Well, you can't keep that score, we're going to drop it.' Very deflating. To see a story that was scoring for four years at 4.87 drop over the last few weeks, to 4.67 doesn't exactly encourage me to keep writing.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

Not everyone votes on every chapter. There are some who wait and vote on the story as a whole on the final chapter. This is particularly common on Sci-Fi&Fantasy tales. It's one of the quirks of the readership. Almost all of mine there consistently have a significant bump in the number of votes on the final chapter.

Blackhawk Hall 01 - 436 votes
Blackhawk Hall 05 - 364 votes
Blackhawk Hall 06 - 444 votes Final chapter has more votes than the first.

Lowborn 01 - 652
Lowborn 09 - 517
Lowborn 10 - 677 Same as Blackhawk. More votes on the finale than the first.

One Whores Town 01 - 89
One Whores Town 08 - 94
One Whores Town 09 - 108 Ditto, though it was really consistent due to a twice a week release schedule. Lowborn was the same. Blackhawk was more sporadic, and that's reflected in the dropoff with Ch. 05.

My readership usually drops off as the chapters progress, even if the story scores well. The first chapter usually gets the most views, and it often keeps dropping.

 

[RejectReality]

I think it's the site dropping the scores. Which seems strange. A story scores well, because the readers obviously enjoyed it, and the site decides, 'Well, you can't keep that score, we're going to drop it.' Very deflating. To see a story that was scoring for four years at 4.87 drop over the last few weeks, to 4.67 doesn't exactly encourage me to keep writing.

That makes no sense. High scoring stories are a selling point. There's a reason the toplists exist, and the accursed red H remains even though it's so problematic. It goes against everything Literotica has ever done in all the years I've been here, because it would be shooting themselves in the balls. Not even the feet — the balls.

 

[Lathanar1]

Almost all of mine there consistently have a significant bump in the number of votes on the final chapter.

For a year, two other chapters had more votes than the last one had. In the last two weeks the last chapter has significantly gained the lead. It seems odd to me.

 

[RejectReality]

For a year, two other chapters had more votes than the last one had. In the last two weeks the last chapter has significantly gained the lead. It seems odd to me.

I assume it's the final chapter of Book 1 that you're suspicious of? You're posting a direct sequel right now. New people are finding it, and a lot of them are going back to the beginning. They're also binge-reading, because it's all available. Assume a certain percentage of them are final chapter voters, and there you have it.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

That makes no sense. High scoring stories are a selling point. There's a reason the toplists exist, and the accursed red H remains even though it's so problematic. It goes against everything Literotica has ever done in all the years I've been here, because it would be shooting themselves in the balls. Not even the feet — the balls.

When they switched up the site a few years ago, they did a massive sweep. That's when 95% of my scores dropped, some by .10 or more. Some of us asked why it happened, and Manu said not to worry, that it would all be corrected. But that never happened. Now it's happening again, so I'm starting to wonder why I even bother writing on here. I've never experienced this on any other site, so I find it a little strange that they keep knocking down the scores, because all they're doing is discouraging the writers.

I know they can tell when someone is one-bombing other writers, or boosting the scores on their own stories, which is one of the reasons that they sort everything out by the end of a contest. But if someone isn't cheating, I don't think they should be dinged.

We all know that we write on here for free. The only satisfaction we get is when someone leaves an encouraging comment, or favorites a story and gives it a nice score. So, having the scores drop for no reason isn't exactly encouraging.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

My scores have been dropping in the last few weeks, and I rarely comment on here. So, I've got a feeling it's a sweep, and I got hit again. Such is life I guess. But it is annoying.

If a sweep is removing fraudulent 5s this is not a bad thing. If you are happy with the site removing fraudulent 1s you should be equally happy about deleting false 5s.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I think it's the site dropping the scores. Which seems strange. A story scores well, because the readers obviously enjoyed it, and the site decides, 'Well, you can't keep that score, we're going to drop it.' Very deflating. To see a story that was scoring for four years at 4.87 drop over the last few weeks, to 4.67 doesn't exactly encourage me to keep writing.

So you admit that you are writing for scores. If that is the case, just pander more. Easy.

 

[RejectReality]

If there's a sweep, and your vote totals go down, and your scores go down as well, then you have overzealous fans who are engaged in scumbaggery on "your behalf". They're dropping extra 5s on you or trolling others to improve your position. If you don't believe you have fans, then you're wrong. If you don't believe any of them would do something like that, then you're wrong. And they'll keep on doing it until told by you to stop. Once you do, most of them will. It's just until they're explicitly told you don't want them giggling behind their hands and cheating for you, they take your silence as approval, even though you have no bloody idea they're doing it.

There's a reason virtually everything I post has a note like this at the end, right above the voting form.

This is an entry in the Literotica Nude Day Story Contest 2024. Your votes determine the winner, so I'd appreciate yours. One vote per reader, and don't down-vote other people to "help" me either. No stuffing the ballot box.

There's also a reason I consistently have a lower percentage of votes swept from my stuff in contests and such, and haven't seen a score drop in forever from sweeps. It's because I've been consistently telling every old and new fan to cut it the fuck out. Prior to that, I was suffering large numbers of swept votes and a roller-coaster on my scores. Then damn near simultaneously, two fans off-handedly told me that they voted every time they read a story, multiple times per year, and one of them admitted to bombing others who kept getting above me in the toplist.

Telling just those two "Please, no. You're not helping, you're hurting me because your first 5 on my stuff is going away along with any extras or 1-bombs." significantly curtailed the bleeding, because they did stop. Assuming that if there were 2, there were probably more, I started putting notes on everything, and it worked.