Rape as Sexual Fantasy

[McKenna]

In this thread I don't want to debate the legitimacy of rape as a fantasy; I'd rather not hear about the effects such stories have on women who have been raped, and if you're against such stories being published, this isn't the thread for you.

That said, I'm trying to do a little research for a story. I'm finally going to expand upon my Clan Tavish story, but I need to bounce some ideas around.

What I'm trying to understand is how a man can rape a woman "against his will." For instance, perhaps he doesn't agree with the idea of taking a woman against her will, but feels pressured into doing it, be it peer-pressure, familial duty, etc. How can a man get an erection in this case?

The other scenario would be one of anger. Extreme anger. I'm trying to figure out how anger and a thirst for revenge can lead to an erection. I suppose this explores the theory of rape as a means control or punish. Can anyone explain physically and mentally/emotionally how a man can get an erection in such an instance?

Many thanks.

P. S. If this thread or one like it has been done before, please link me!

P. S. S. I realize this is a touchy subject. It's hard to discuss our fantasies like this because we either feel guilty or ashamed for having them. That said, if you feel like you have something to say but don't want to say it publicly, please feel free to PM me. Whatever you tell me will be kept in extrememe confidence; as every writer knows, never reveal your source!

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

McKenna

Rape is a crime of humiliation and control. It has nothing to do with sex. You are asking how a man can be humiliated/controlled into raping a woman.

This seems like a psychologic Merry-Go-Round.

The only thing that even remotely comes to mind is a Gang initiation.

 

[McKenna]

McKenna

Rape is a crime of humiliation and control. It has nothing to do with sex. You are asking how a man can be humiliated/controlled into raping a woman.

This seems like a psychologic Merry-Go-Round.

The only thing that even remotely comes to mind is a Gang initiation.

Once again, I'm not about to debate the legitimacy of rape as fantasy. If you feel the need to do so, start your own thread.

I am not asking how a man can be humiliated into raping a woman, I am asking how he can be pressured into doing so; i.e. protect family honor (think medieval times.)

BTW, rolling your eyes at me will not induce me to take your comments seriously.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Once again, I'm not about to debate the legitimacy of rape as fantasy. If you feel the need to do so, start your own thread.

I am not asking how a man can be humiliated into raping a woman, I am asking how he can be pressured into doing so; i.e. protect family honor (think medieval times.)

BTW, rolling your eyes at me will not induce me to take your comments seriously.

Sorry, McKenny.
I wasn't thinking about the moral legitimacy of rape at all. In our time that is the only thing I could imagine that would hold water in our society.

If you want medieval times there are two separate cases. A Lord could have any serf woman he wanted. There was a tradition that required serf women to spend their wedding night with the Lord, not their husband.

Secondly, rape was a matter of course after a battle. It was sort of like a big party and everyone joined in. It was a way of enslaving the loser and proving manhood. This actually continues today in Africa. I've heard a number of reports of this coming from Samolia.

 

[McKenna]

An Interesting Aside...

Found this while researching the psychology behind certain fantasies. Thought it might make interesting reading for fans of the "Non-Consent" category here at Lit.

An excerpt from The Safest Sex published in Psychology Today, Sep/Oct '95.

"...Dominance and submission fantasies. In these, sexual power is expressed either ritualistically--in sadomasochistic activities--or through physical force, as in rape fantasies. Such fantasies are surprisingly common. Person reports that 44 percent of men have had fantasies of dominating a partner. Other studies found that 51 percent of women fantasized about being forced to have sex, while a third imagined: "I'm a slave who must obey a man's every wish."

None of this means, of course, that real-world rape victims "really want it." "Women who find submission fantasies sexually arousing are very clear that they have no wish to be raped in reality," say Leitenberg and Henning. In their fantasies, women control every aspect of what occurs. And their scenarios are far less brutal than real-life attacks. Typically the fantasy involves an attractive man whose restraint is simply overwhelmed by the woman's attractiveness. These fantasies serve the same psychological purpose as scenes of irresistibility. "It's different means to the same end" says Leitenberg. "We want to be desired.""

 

[McKenna]

Sorry, McKenny.
I wasn't thinking about the moral legitimacy of rape at all. In our time that is the only thing I could imagine that would hold water in our society.

If you want medieval times there are two separate cases. A Lord could have any serf woman he wanted. There was a tradition that required serf women to spend their wedding night with the Lord, not their husband.

Secondly, rape was a matter of course after a battle. It was sort of like a big party and everyone joined in. It was a way of enslaving the loser and proving manhood. This actually continues today in Africa. I've heard a number of reports of this coming from Samolia.

Thanks J, I appreciate your comments. The background behind the story is actually more of a "revenge rape." At least, that's the spin I'm putting on it (or attempting to.) Not only am I exploring the rape victim's emotions and physcial responses, but the rapists as well --which makes it tough, because I have a hard time putting myself in that role, thus my questions.

How can a man get an erection out of anger/revenge? What psychological stimuli cause such a physical response? Is it like a "mindless fuck?" Meaning, the mind is separate from the act? Is that even possible?

Maybe I'm asking someone to explain the impossible here, I don't know. Just thought I'd ask.

 

[oggbashan]

Power can be erotic.

In a battle situation, a fighter can be so hyped-up that killing or raping (and killing) seem normal. In olden days it was considered acceptable for an army to be given permission to loot and rape a town that had not surrendered when it had become effectively indefensible. That happened as recently as the early 19th Century for British troops in the Peninsular War and during the second world war for German, Russian and Japanese troops. Any rapes committed by US and British troops were not sanctioned and could lead to court martials.

Rape, or the threat of rape, was a legitimate weapon of war. It still is in some parts of the world e.g. Darfur and the Congo. The idea is that it deters others from resisting the attackers OR inflames the defenders so much that they behave stupidly and get slaughtered.

A soldier who does not want to participate in rape in those situations would probably be outnumbered by those who would rape. His omission might not be noticed, but if it was, it could be fatal because he hasn't shared the communal guilt. An army that has raped is unlikely to surrender to an enemy.

Og

 

[Aurora Black]

What I'm trying to understand is how a man can rape a woman "against his will." For instance, perhaps he doesn't agree with the idea of taking a woman against her will, but feels pressured into doing it, be it peer-pressure, familial duty, etc. How can a man get an erection in this case?

Oh, man. This is the same thing I wanted to know for a (now shelved) Halloween entry. My thought on this was that the man was physically threatened by the others to do the deed, and despite his obvious repulsion and danger of the situation, he got an erection because the woman in question was someone that he had wanted to be with anyway. His dream girl. And even though it was wrong, the rape was the only opportunity that he would have to experience what it would be like to "make love" with her.

 

[R. Richard]

A man can rape a woman in anger. It happens all the time and it is not difficult for a man to get an erection in such a situation.

Actually, for many men rape is an issue of control, not of sex. The woman [or man] is brought under control by the action of rape. Male raping male happens all of the time in prisons and mostly the aggressors are males who would be heterosexual if there were women available.

As to being "forced" to rape a woman by societal/family presssure, again it is not really all that difficult. A man can walk into a whorehouse and have sex with a woman he has never before seen and hopes he will never again see outside the whorehouse. Assumming that the man is a great deal stronger than the woman, it is a very small step to have sex with a woman he has to rape.

I post this before, but I knew of a girl back in school who could not face the idea of having sex with a boy. However, she wanted to be a social girl and had to put out if she was to get the number of dates she wanted. Thus, the girl would go out on a date, wearing a very short, very low cut dress with no underwear and "get raped." ["Well, it wouldn't have been so bad if it just happened once, but with the boys around here it is just, rape, rape, rape!] Finally, the other girls got on her about the situation, since many of the boys thought that "no" meant "yes" and "hell no" meant, "You may have to use a little force here." [Just for the record, I never dated the girl. I have a morbid fear of standing before a judge and having to say, "Well, the bitch was asking for it!" The judge says, "20 years!"]

 

[McKenna]

I added this to the initial post, but will add it here too:

P. S. S. I realize this is a touchy subject. It's hard to discuss our fantasies like this because we either feel guilty or ashamed for having them. That said, if you feel like you have something to say but don't want to say it publicly, please feel free to PM me. Whatever you tell me will be kept in extrememe confidence; as every writer knows, never reveal your source!

 

[McKenna]

An army that has raped is unlikely to surrender to an enemy.

Og

Why is this, Og? I'm not sure I follow your reasoning.

 

[oggbashan]

Why is this, Og? I'm not sure I follow your reasoning.

Because they are likely to be killed, not treated as legitimate prisoners under the Geneva Convention. They have gone beyond the rules of so-called civilised warfare.

Og

 

[Selena_Kitt]

How can a man get an erection out of anger/revenge? What psychological stimuli cause such a physical response? Is it like a "mindless fuck?" Meaning, the mind is separate from the act? Is that even possible?

The physical response can be attained just from the visual cues... if she's naked or half-naked and there's the possibility he can have her, biology often kicks in, even if he "would never think of such a thing." Getting an erection isn't the problem... if she's bent over with her skirts up and her legs open, it's likely a cock is going to respond. The question is, will a man act on that? The ego says "no," it overrides the "id." Psychologically, the id just wants, and it's the ego that tells us "yes" or "no"... if a man is placed in a situation where the ego is subverted, the id can take over... what you need to do is place your character in a position where the ego is put second.

 

[McKenna]

Oh, man. This is the same thing I wanted to know for a (now shelved) Halloween entry. My thought on this was that the man was physically threatened by the others to do the deed, and despite his obvious repulsion and danger of the situation, he got an erection because the woman in question was someone that he had wanted to be with anyway. His dream girl. And even though it was wrong, the rape was the only opportunity that he would have to experience what it would be like to "make love" with her.

Now you have my mind wandering... Was he forced to rape in front of the group of others? Entirely different fantasy, I suppose. Eep.

 

[Aurora Black]

Now you have my mind wandering... Was he forced to rape in front of the group of others? Entirely different fantasy, I suppose. Eep.

PM coming your way.

 

[McKenna]

A As to being "forced" to rape a woman by societal/family presssure, again it is not really all that difficult. A man can walk into a whorehouse and have sex with a woman he has never before seen and hopes he will never again see outside the whorehouse. Assumming that the man is a great deal stronger than the woman, it is a very small step to have sex with a woman he has to rape.

Aha, thank you. I also needed to know this wasn't entirely beyond the scope of believability.

So, in other words, a man can pretty much get an erection ...anytime, anywhere? But why does rage or anger incite an erection? Is it the power or desire to control? I'm attempting to delve into the male psyche; talk about unfamiliar waters.

 

[McKenna]

Because they are likely to be killed, not treated as legitimate prisoners under the Geneva Convention. They have gone beyond the rules of so-called civilised warfare.

Og

Thank you, that makes perfect sense.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

You need to look at profiling and psychology behind rape perhaps?

 

[Aurora Black]

What does family pressure have to do with rape?

 

[McKenna]

The physical response can be attained just from the visual cues... if she's naked or half-naked and there's the possibility he can have her, biology often kicks in, even if he "would never think of such a thing." Getting an erection isn't the problem... if she's bent over with her skirts up and her legs open, it's likely a cock is going to respond. The question is, will a man act on that? The ego says "no," it overrides the "id." Psychologically, the id just wants, and it's the ego that tells us "yes" or "no"... if a man is placed in a situation where the ego is subverted, the id can take over... what you need to do is place your character in a position where the ego is put second.

Good advice, Selena. I'm trying to figure how the ego and id would fit into a revenge rape, however. For example, one clan kills a member of a rival clan; rival clan kidnaps woman of the first clan. Rather than kill her, they will rape her and further humiliate her by impregnating her with a baby from the rival clan, then send her back home.

So... the clan leader is pressured into raping her. The first rape is probably easy to come up with: Thoughts of his dead clan member incite him to rage, etc. The subsequent rapes, however, will be different. The rage will taper off, but the rapes will not because of familial/honor-bound duty.

 

[McKenna]

What does family pressure have to do with rape?

See this post, 'Rora.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Good advice, Selena. I'm trying to figure how the ego and id would fit into a revenge rape, however. For example, one clan kills a member of a rival clan; rival clan kidnaps woman of the first clan. Rather than kill her, they will rape her and further humiliate her by impregnating her with a baby from the rival clan, then send her back home.

So... the clan leader is pressured into raping her. The first rape is probably easy to come up with: Thoughts of his dead clan member incite him to rage, etc. The subsequent rapes, however, will be different. The rage will taper off, but the rapes will not because of familial/honor-bound duty.

the motivation for revenge is the id... sounds like you've got the first rape down pat... now... subsequent rapes... if you are going to keep it as "rape" (forced sex) then the woman would have to be somewhat objectified by him... she becomes a possession, something to be taken and used... kind of like a lifelike masturbatory doll...

but are you developing something BETWEEN these characters? Does the woman fall for her rapist? Is she enjoying the rape? (so far we've been in his head... I'm curious what's going on in hers...)

 

[Aurora Black]

See this post, 'Rora.

Ouch.

 

[McKenna]

the motivation for revenge is the id... sounds like you've got the first rape down pat... now... subsequent rapes... if you are going to keep it as "rape" (forced sex) then the woman would have to be somewhat objectified by him... she becomes a possession, something to be taken and used... kind of like a lifelike masturbatory doll...

but are you developing something BETWEEN these characters? Does the woman fall for her rapist? Is she enjoying the rape? (so far we've been in his head... I'm curious what's going on in hers...)

What do you think?

What I'm trying to do now is write the parts that come before that particular chapter.

 

[Aurora Black]

What do you think?

What I'm trying to do now is write the parts that come before that particular chapter.

I just read it. Whew!