Rape as a fantasy

[clcarne]

I posted a Non-con story -


http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=165407


but I hate to think that anyone would think that this might actually happen. I might get off to the fantasy but I'd break off the naughty bits of anyone who tried it for real.

I was tempted to post a warning - ala

"if you try this you might find yourself in Sarah's position - in jail."

What are your thoughts on the subject?

 

[Varian P]

Hi there, clcarne,

First, wow, what a juicy little story you've got there!

Most everthing I've posted thus far here at L.com has been non-consensual, to varying extremes, and I struggle with my personal feelings about eroticising rape and the morality of representing this kind of story as female fantasy.

I've dealt with this in my own special way by writing a couple rather brutal retaliation stories not posted at this site--not so much the cutting off of the naughty bits--more along the lines of turn-about's fair play.

Ultimately, I believe that no sane person is going to read this kind of story and decide they'd be doing anyone a favor by enacting it, and I tend to feel that all fantasy is healthy--whether it involves non-consent, incest, or monsters from outer space.

I also appreciate a forum like this, where conversations about fantasy literature can take place, and people like you who dare to ask the burning questions!

-Varian

 

[BlackShanglan]

Here, here. I would get into an extended analysis of rape motifs and their symbolic weight, but Varian's already been good enough to have that conversation with me via email Do, by all means, get her started - fascinating thoughts on a disturbingly interesting topic.

Shanglan

 

[MLyons]

I have a feeling that Varian and I might very well be on the cusp of this conversation ourselves.... and just because I posted in this thread, I promise to give clcarne's story a read here in a few minutes and post some reactions so I can' t be accused of hijacking.

 

[MLyons]

clcarne,

I read your story. I'm not sure if you were looking for feedback, but I wanted to keep the thread kind of on topic. Over the course of my erotic reading career (as it were) I've come to find that I'm much more of a blackmail, bondage, and humiliation man than I am a threat-of-real-violence, cold hard rape type.

Mind you, like you, I believe strongly in fantasy vs. reality as I think my compadres in this thread can fully attest, but I also sometimes feel the responsibility on me when I'm writing something of a darker nature, and some of my darker work is not posted anywhere for that reason, not because it's any worse than what's already out there. Lord knows, it's not, but I do feel a personal twinge of ... eh ... worry that there are indeed people out there who can't separate fantasy and reality, so I kind of tend to reign myself in a smidge when I'm writing for an audience. Perhaps that's healthy, perhaps it's not. I guess I think that the conflict itself is healthy, and I'll leave it at that.

That all said, your story is ably written--perhaps a little quick and dirty with a bit of a well-used concept (my body betrayed me kinda thing) but hell, I'm guilty of that as much as the next guy, so I don't have much license to complain there. For me the story didn't quite capture my imagination because of the ... I don't know, the vindictiveness of it. It's such a fine line for me. I mean, don't get me wrong, I can find plenty of eroticism in objectification, and the idea of taking someone by force, but for some reason your story didn't work for me. Perhaps just had too much evidence of violence for my liking, and aside from the narrator saying that her body was betraying her, I didn't really get a chance to FEEL her body betraying her. I didn't believe it, I guess is what I'm saying.

Perhaps it was that the prose behind the story lacked that love for the eroticism of the rape fantasy. I mean, it seemed to concentrate on the violence, the evil, the cold force rather than the flesh, the desire, the power, and the excitement. I mean, it didn't even seem that the rapists really enjoyed themselves either. Yeah they came, but... WHY did they come? It was kind of a cold account of the facts, and so I had trouble getting into it. I ended up just being concerned for her, even as she was telling me she loved it. ::shrug::

Anyway, all that has nothing to do with how good the story is, or that it didn't succeed in the way you intended it too. I'm just speaking of my own preferences, and certainly don't mean to suggest that the story won't work for others of slightly different tastes.

I've rambled on long enough. If you weren't particularly looking for feedback, please forgive me.

 

[Pure]

clcarne,

I'm glad there are some experiments with darker 'non consent'.

There are several well written parts and hints of darkness.

Ever look at 'Restaurant Nightmare'?

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=109463

That said, in some ways you didn't depart from the formula. She started liking it, and responding strongly right off the bat.

Her feeling at the end were generally grateful, as in the formula.

The final wrinkle is often seen. Oh, it's really the boyfriend. Really no danger, etc.

As to the problem of provoking... Well, all kinds of lit stuff might 'provoke', in theory. In practice, it's hard to tell. After all, some seeming normal people watch 'texas chainsaw massacre.'
They don't generally go out and murder.

To use another example, I wrote an incest story where a daughter and mother got it on, daughter instigated. There are a hundred thousand views!. Assume 5% are women. Of those 5000 women, how many went after Mom, as a result of the story.
1?

Maybe warnings can salve your conscience. "This is a story of a deranged character whose despicable acts would likely get him the 'chair.'

BTW: It's a bit of a legal puzzle whether the lead man committed a crime in fucking her, himself. He'd had sex with her, in an ongoing way; arguably he had 'blanket consent', esp. if she knowingly shared any fantasies.

Keep up the experiments. Try for more surprises.

Best,

J.

 

[clcarne]

rape??

the 'hero' is a manipualtor who uses his knowledge of her fantasies to turn her into his lover.

is he doing her a favor? Or is he an incredible prick? (and not in the good way)


If someone got into your wildest fantasies and turned them around on you without your knowledge....

 

[Boxlicker101]

Personally, I have never posted a story of rape and I probably never will. I did write one but it was rejected as being too violent and I actually felt better about that. I felt uneasy as I wrote it and I know it was not done well. I don't even like to read stories about actual rapes, let alone write about them.

I have written two stories about role-playing a rape, one about a pretend prowler and the other about a gang. I made it very clear that the characters were role-playing and everybody enjoyed themselves, the women maybe most of all.

I have much less of a problem with N/C. I have one story about a woman pressured into sex through sexual harassment at work but she ends up enjoying it as much as the man. I also have a sequel to that one, in the anal sex category, and another one in the works. I like to write stories about men and women, or men only or women only, having fun together, with everybody enjoying themselves and every story I have posted so far is about that.

 

[Varian P]

Re: rape??

the 'hero' is a manipualtor who uses his knowledge of her fantasies to turn her into his lover.

is he doing her a favor? Or is he an incredible prick? (and not in the good way)

If someone got into your wildest fantasies and turned them around on you without your knowledge....

Darn, your questions do strike close to home.

This is the kind of thing which, when treated in a certain way, makes for an incredibly erotic, enticing fantasy/piece of literature/film etc., and which in real life would make the man an asshole deserving of a long prison sentence.

The difference (apart from the simple fantasy v. reality) being that in a work of literature, the author has the omnipotence and omniscience to ensure that the scene enacted is lived by the victim as her fantasy. Her terror feeds her thrill, as it does in her fantasy. As one writes that she feels fear, that she pleads for this not to happen, with a few strokes of the keys the author can simultaneously make her panties wet and give her a thrill of arousal beyond any she's felt before.

In real life, nobody can know how a person would react to a scenario in which another's fantasy is played out--I would argue that not even the person who dreamed up the fantasy could know how they would react if it were to "come true."

Any guy who would presume that he could fulfill such a fantasy, and without discussing it with the woman, takes it upon himself to do so, is a megalomaniacle freak with a dangerous god complex.

This all ties in with what I understand to be commonplace rules in the BD/SM lifestyle and roleplaying, wherin people agree on safewords in advance, so that even when the "victim" has agreed to a scenario ahead of time with full knowledge, he/she can stop it if, despite their own expectations, it becomes too much for them.

It might be interesting to write the same story that you posted, but in a darker vein, wtih her being horribly traumatized by the whole thing. It would even be fascinating to have the two versions appear as a single piece, just as a way of exploring how the author controls the 'reality' of what he/she creates.

-Varian

 

[MLyons]

As usual, I'm 100% with Varian. I love stories, and I love the freedom they provide to explore these topics, but when the notion is introduced that they cross over into real life, not only do I become less interested, I become very concerned.

There are certainly people out there who might want to "live the fantasy" as it were. I've met some of them, and it's a fascinating lifestyle. I certainly don't have a problem with that either as long as all is consentual, etc. I'm just not one of them, and I think it's safer to assume that no one else is either, unless it's all been heavily discussed and agreed upon ahead of time.

That all said, I consider stories free reign. That's the beauty of fantasy, to me... it isn't real. I can do anything I want, and ultimately, as long as it's understood to be fantasy, I think that's pretty healthy and exciting.

 

[clcarne]

fantasy fufilled

This has always been a kink of mine. Someone or Somepalce (ala the Ranch in my long series) where your deepest fantasies are fufilled.

Of course you need a powerful almost psycic person who anticipates your desires and has the where-with-all to grant them.

(Of course, I have a lot of fantasies that I would never want to live out. Ever! No really... NOT EVER!)

that's what stories are for.

 

[wishfulthinking]

Hi C, welcome to lit!

From a writing perspective, you have a great style, very fluid to read. But I do feel you just jumped straight into the main course.

From the reader's pov, I felt the ending detracted from the story. I think if you going to do the 'it was the boyfriend' story line, the hose down and waking up in the store room was too much humiliation. If you had simply done the non-consent story without the 'boyfriend', and explored the darker side of the genre, then it would have been great also. Perhaps your concerns over condoning 'rape' made you pull in at the end?

But I agree, some fantasies are meant to be only that - fantasy!

Keep writing! Cheers, WT