Racism and ignorance on Lit aside from…

[on_the_verge]

How many more racists and ignorant people are on Lit? I see that when there are issues about other board members, sparks may fly, but this has slipped by and to all you who claim to be sensitive, intelligent, caring and what not. So, what's up or is it just me?

The world today seems absolutely crackers,
With nuclear bombs to blow us all sky high.
There's fools and idiots sitting on the trigger.
It's depressing and it's senseless, and that's why...

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They only come up to your knees,
Yet they're always friendly, and they're ready to please.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
There's nine hundred million of them in the world today.
You'd better learn to like them; that's what I say.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They come from a long way overseas,
But they're cute and they're cuddly, and they're ready to please.

I like Chinese food.
The waiters never are rude.
Think of the many things they've done to impress.
There's Maoism, Taoism, I Ching, and Chess.

So I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
I like their tiny little trees,
Their Zen, their ping-pong, their yin, and yang-ese.

I like Chinese thought,
The wisdom that Confucious taught.
If Darwin is anything to shout about,
The Chinese will survive us all without any doubt.

So, I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They only come up to your knees,
Yet they're wise and they're witty, and they're ready to please.

All together.

[verse in Chinese]
Wo ai zhongguo ren. (I like Chinese.)
Wo ai zhongguo ren. (I like Chinese.)
Wo ai zhongguo ren. (I like Chinese.)
Ni hao ma; ni hao ma; ni hao ma; zaijien! (How are you; how are you; how are you; goodbye!)

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
Their food is guaranteed to please,
A fourteen, a seven, a nine, and lychees.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
I like their tiny little trees,
Their Zen, their ping-pong, their yin, and yang-ese.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They only come up to your knees...

 

[alexandraaah]

Without negating your question, I suppose a subquestion would be: is an unintentional omission of a specific minority a reflection of racism or ignorance?

Not sure, it's why I'm askin'

In regards to the quotation by Tortoise, I think a partial answer is that a lot of people here will ignore what they don't find worthwhile.

 

[Cheyenne]

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71799&pagenumber=4

Already responded in the original thread above. My response to your post there:

I think it is just me, but I have a hard time figuring out what many of your posts say.

I think this one asks why no one bashes Tortoise for anti-Asian remarks while there are other threads on the board discussing Muslims, Arghanistan, etc.

Two things. The first is that maybe no one is listening to Tortoise in the first place if he is on ignore or skipped over by regular readers as seems to be the case with quite a few people.
And in this thread, he was bashed as a whole, not just for one particular problem with a post about Chinese. But bashing is bashing.

Second, if you take a look at the history of the board, I think you'll find it very supportive of Asians, women in particular. There are quite a few guys here who prefer Asian beauty. I really don't remember seeing other threads that could be considered anti-Asian. But I may have missed them if I wasn't particularly looking for them.

 

[Cheyenne]

Another answer that applies just to me: I didn't see that original post so I'm not sure which thread it came from. But in general, I don't ever bother to read any posts which are nothing more than song lyrics. Just isn't my thing, while a lot of other people here enjoy those kinds of things.

 

[KillerMuffin]

You can't argue with rocks. You can't make bricks see reason. Some battles are better fought with simple ostracism. It's not much, not quite like a fist in the mouth, but social ostracism is the most powerful weapon in this society since I'm not a hacker and I can't wipe his hard drive even if I wanted to.

This tortoise creature is a useless waste of space and simply not worth the bother.

We have had a racist on this board before and he occasionally shows his happy little ass up to lord himself over the rest of us. We've ostracized him, too.

How does an Internet society deal with unwelcome people? Ignore them and they go away. We are an Internet society that believes in freedom of speech. The man can say what he wants to. Most of the rest of us just think he's got nothing in his head but rocks.

Here at Lit, when we fight, it's because we care about something or someone personally. I have no interest in fighting with tortoise because he isn't worth the consideration of doing it. We do have Chinese people on this board. We have Asians from several different countries on this board. These people are worth keeping.

 

[on_the_verge]

You can't argue with rocks. You can't make bricks see reason. Some battles are better fought with simple ostracism. It's not much, not quite like a fist in the mouth, but social ostracism is the most powerful weapon in this society since I'm not a hacker and I can't wipe his hard drive even if I wanted to.

This tortoise creature is a useless waste of space and simply not worth the bother.

We have had a racist on this board before and he occasionally shows his happy little ass up to lord himself over the rest of us. We've ostracized him, too.

How does an Internet society deal with unwelcome people? Ignore them and they go away. We are an Internet society that believes in freedom of speech. The man can say what he wants to. Most of the rest of us just think he's got nothing in his head but rocks.

Here at Lit, when we fight, it's because we care about something or someone personally. I have no interest in fighting with tortoise because he isn't worth the consideration of doing it. We do have Chinese people on this board. We have Asians from several different countries on this board. These people are worth keeping.

Dearest KM, I think that post was obvious and I made references to it. Of course things should be ignored and be able to filter was is important and dubious. Yet, the issue about racism in general, not just Asians, fuel me and enrage me out of my soft and jaded demure. I was not seeking a banter and a big rush of support, but I thought other's might be a bit more in tuned to this. This is my issue, YES, but it's also every issue where we turn or backs and look what it can manifest to. I thought I had been here long enough and I don't want prizes or a big hug fest. You can't be chum chummy with everyone—look at my tagline. But, KM, thanks for responding.

I will get over it, but it's just that I am not so confident and know myself, but every once in a while, I hate being mud slinged.

 

[Dhalgren]

I absolutely agree with KM..

It does seem though..that we ignore humans that harm others with unnecessary words..when sometimes they do need to know the rest of us find their behavior sickening, deplorable and reeking of shameful stupidity.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Thanks for the link Cheyenne. I hadn't read that thread, or the original one in which tortoise posted his 'poem'. Perhaps, OTV... very few people have responded to it because so few of us bother to read threads by specific people?

 

[Problem Child]

How many more racists and ignorant people are on Lit? I see that when there are issues about other board members, sparks may fly, but this has slipped by and to all you who claim to be sensitive, intelligent, caring and what not. So, what's up or is it just me?

It's just you.

The thread in question is here:

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71772&perpage=10&pagenumber=2

You and Dhalgren took issue with the song lyrics, which I thought were in bad taste. Tortoise did not respond. I was going to make a comment about the lyrics but thought you and Dhalgren handled it adequately.

Just because fifty people didn't jump on your band wagon doesn't make us racists. The threads you are referring to are situations where a real argument develops because someone is accused of something and they fight back, and it goes on endlessly. Again, Tortoise did not respond, so there was no argument. You handled the situation and made your thoughts known. If Tortoise had responded negatively I'm sure more people would have chimed in to defend your position.

(edited to repair my butchering of Dhalgren's name)

 

[lavender]

 

[on_the_verge]

Re: Re: Racism and ignorance on Lit aside from…

It's just you.

The thread in question is here:

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71772&perpage=10&pagenumber=2

You and Dhalgren took issue with the song lyrics, which I thought were in bad taste. Tortoise did not respond. I was going to make a comment about the lyrics but thought you and Dhalgren handled it adequately.

Just because fifty people didn't jump on your band wagon doesn't make us racists. The threads you are referring to are situations where a real argument develops because someone is accused of something and they fight back, and it goes on endlessly. Again, Tortoise did not respond, so there was no argument. You handled the situation and made your thoughts known. If Tortoise had responded negatively I'm sure more people would have chimed in to defend your position.

(edited to repair my butchering of Dhalgren's name)

PC, your are so PC! I see your point, but how many other posts…well, let's let this one slide, but let me jump on someone's ass and not respond and see how many responses…okay, I need to stop being a Toys "R" Us kid, but that was not a song! I heard it when I was in second grade and my brother and I were kicked and the three bullies chanted those same words as some sort of tease or the feeling of superiority.

No, I did want a big response by other's, but at least if one comment was made and we know better, no? That one could feel hurt over a response and just say, "I saw that comment and I bet it hurt you, but don't worry."

I would see that point and it's endless and let's move on please…

 

[lavender]

 

[KillerMuffin]

I'm afraid that I see neither signature line nor avatar. If it's not in your post proper I don't see it. So, unfortunately, your tag line is completely lost to me.

Racism is a serious problem and we deal with it here far better than we deal with trolls, I'm afraid. We simply give the racists the cut-direct, as it were. If we did that to trolls than we'd see precious few of them around.

We have racists here, closet racists, people who play their race as a trump card, people who just aren't sensitive to any human contact. We don't hear from the often and we don't wish to.

How long would you stay if only one or two people ever responded to you? You wouldn't. I doubt tortoise will either. Ambro certainly didn't stick around.

I realize that you didn't start this thread for kudos or draw attention to yourself or as some sort of call to action. I also realize that people are going to read that poem and make the same conclusion that I did. tortoise is not a worthwhile human being and he will be ignored at the best. At the worst the trolls will attack his stories and poems on the lists and "1" him to pieces.

One must also consider the question: What is the best way to deal with a racist in our midst? In this community overt racism isn't tolerated. Subvert isn't either but at times it's too subtle for the masses to detect. Racism isn't a major Lit problem like it is elsewhere. We simply don't tolerate it.

Either that or I'm completely misunderstanding you.

 

[DulceCrema]

hmmm...

I see the title of that thread is "Lit is not just a fucking porn site" What did that little 'ditty' have to do with that?? yikes!

If you ignore them, do they think it's okay to continue in their ignorant ways? If you respond to them, does that just drive them to post more?

 

[on_the_verge]

I'm afraid that I see neither signature line nor avatar. If it's not in your post proper I don't see it. So, unfortunately, your tag line is completely lost to me.

Racism is a serious problem and we deal with it here far better than we deal with trolls, I'm afraid. We simply give the racists the cut-direct, as it were. If we did that to trolls than we'd see precious few of them around.

We have racists here, closet racists, people who play their race as a trump card, people who just aren't sensitive to any human contact. We don't hear from the often and we don't wish to.

How long would you stay if only one or two people ever responded to you? You wouldn't. I doubt tortoise will either. Ambro certainly didn't stick around.

I realize that you didn't start this thread for kudos or draw attention to yourself or as some sort of call to action. I also realize that people are going to read that poem and make the same conclusion that I did. tortoise is not a worthwhile human being and he will be ignored at the best. At the worst the trolls will attack his stories and poems on the lists and "1" him to pieces.

One must also consider the question: What is the best way to deal with a racist in our midst? In this community overt racism isn't tolerated. Subvert isn't either but at times it's too subtle for the masses to detect. Racism isn't a major Lit problem like it is elsewhere. We simply don't tolerate it.

Either that or I'm completely misunderstanding you.

The line is about how life is and you cannot appease or befriend the whole world, hence below.

85% will be faceless strangers passing by, 7% will be friends over a cup of coffee or a night on the town, 6% will be the ambiguous variables in life, and 2% will be friends and lovers alike. I will take the 2% and cash it in here or anywhere we care…

KM, I just have to deal with it, but rarely do I come across racism face-to-face, even pixels and digits get in my face as R/L would, and when I do, I am not always prepared to handle it in manners that are more positive out of negative. Everyone handles things a different way within the capacity of their experiences and episodic moments in their lives. Perhaps, I am just talking in the straight dope when I should let loose and have fun, but I like who I am very much and nothing is changing that…maybe.

I think of racism and not just as Asian, Blacks, Turks, Mexican, (levels beyond color) etc. I see racism as an issue between cultures and society. I mean it as a collective and not ant-Aisan specific.

I feel better now and I just needed to release tension and see where this board *stands* Relative and unconclusive, but I like it here and that's why I invest so much time in it. Yet, it's really nice outside and I should go outside; soon…

 

[Guest]

hmmm...

I see the title of that thread is "Lit is not just a fucking porn site" What did that little 'ditty' have to do with that?? yikes!

If you ignore them, do they think it's okay to continue in their ignorant ways? If you respond to them, does that just drive them to post more?

That is a good point DulceCrema. I think if we allow it to slip by then it would not be an issue. If we are proactive to a degree and make a statement something was not acceptable, then we can allow other's new and old to see what is not acceptable *in general*

I believe most of us have canased and been in ehough experiences to know what is sensitive in a particular moment or situation ans when to actaully convey and deploy what we engage in.

If this was on a general joke thread I would not have been so easily offended, after all there are races that make fun at each other, no?

Perhaps some good has come from this in a jaded way. I have never interacted with some on here and it's nice to see a possible start to that.

Tortoise, I see a PM, but have the honor and guts that you made the post in public and you should make your statements in public—apology or otherwise.

Now, it's time to enjoy some fresh CA air and a cappuccino over the Sunday paper @ the café.

 

[on_the_verge]

Guess who was unregistered, oops!

 

[DulceCrema]

I wish common sense would tell someone that something like that is not okay. From my experience, when someone is called on their racism, their comments become worse and worse as a conversation continues. While things like that only serve to make them look more ignorant, it's very hard to see/hear/read, etc. It has a tendency to draw the worst out of me, which doesn't help the situation at all. I don't take many things in life very seriously, but racism is one of the few.

 

[tortoise]

Tortoise, I see a PM, but have the honor and guts that you made the post in public and you should make your statements in public—apology or otherwise.

Fair enough, OTV (I'm assuming that was you). My PM was indeed an apology, and I didn't think I needed to make it public because the post that you were objecting to was not "aimed" at you or anyone. But I will gladly make it public now.

As some of you are aware, the lyrics in question are a Monty Python song. I posted them there in a silly attempt to illustrate the fact that lit can be anything you make it; I was listening to my "Monty Python Final Rip-Off" CD at the time, so I posted that, off-the-cuff. The song was just a bit of silliness; if I would have posted 5 minutes later, you would have been subjected to the Lumberjack Song instead, and none of this would have happened. I intended no offense to anybody, and I apologize whole-heartedly if any was caused. I had no intention of hurting any individual, or any group. Apparently my post hurt OTV badly, and for that I am deeply sorry.

I am on several people's shit list for that post. I can accept that. I know that racism is a hot-button issue, and it's one that I feel VERY strongly about as well. Racism makes me sick, as does intolerance of any type. It's a simple fact that I am probably one of the LEAST racist, most tolerant people you have ever met, and that I have dear friends of virtually every race, religion, sexual orientation, and personality type. I don't expect you to know that, or believe it just because I say it. All you know about me is what I post.

I hope you take this apology in the spirit in which it was intended. If you choose to hate, ignore or ostracize me for that one post, that's entirely your prerogative.

This post is the last I will say in public on this particular subject, but if any of you have any questions, please feel free to PM me. I'm not going anywhere.

Edited to add: I think some of you might have gotten the impression that me posting those lyrics was somehow in RESPONSE to OTV or something she said. The fact is that post had absolutely nothing to do with OTV or ANYBODY; I had no INKLING of her race at the time. If I saw someone post lyrics like that DIRECTED at someone on this board, I would take it as harshly as many of you have done, and respond with AT LEAST as much vitriol.

 

[Dhalgren]

Edited to add: I think some of you might have gotten the impression that me posting those lyrics was somehow in RESPONSE to OTV or something she said. The fact is that post had absolutely nothing to do with OTV or ANYBODY; I had no INKLING of her race at the time. If I saw someone post lyrics like that DIRECTED at someone on this board, I would take it as harshly as many of you have done, and respond with AT LEAST as much vitriol.

Hmm..

That’s like saying “I wouldn’t have said nigger if I knew that guy was standing close enough to hear me.”

No..I know you didn’t direct this to Verge..or anybody else.
(he is a boy, btw)

You did though, post something that had nothing to do with the thread.

Maybe if you posted it as lyrics on oh say..a *lyrics thread*..saying it was a Python bit..it all would have remained kosher.

You have a notable habit of highjacking threads, in general.

Just as a side note:
In my opinion you and Ginny haven’t made a lot of friends around here (and are on many people's ignore)with your style of posting.

<snickers at the stupid people posting which we enjoy making fun of cuz everything is so hilarious>

So..don’t think it’s just the one post that hasn’t won you any respect.

(I wrote this out loud because I don’t do pms)

 

[RhumbRunner13]

Political correctness and Freedom.

Let me start this by admitting that I really like this place and do not mean to criticize any individual here, but attempt to vilify one member in the process of fostering political correctness is absurd!

Here is a decent part of the disscussion as Im saw it unfold.

Posted by OTV

“How many more racists and ignorant people are on Lit? I see that when there are issues about other board members, sparks may fly, but this has slipped by and to all you who claim to be sensitive, intelligent, caring and what not.”

Killer Muffin says:

“You can't argue with rocks. You can't make bricks see reason. Some battles are better fought with simple ostracism. It's not much, not quite like a fist in the mouth, but social ostracism is the most powerful weapon in this society since I'm not a hacker and I can't wipe his hard drive even if I wanted to.

This tortoise creature is a useless waste of space and simply not worth the bother.”

Pagancowgirl adds:
“Thanks for the link Cheyenne. I hadn't read that thread, or the original one in which tortoise posted his 'poem'. Perhaps, OTV... very few people have responded to it because so few of us bother to read threads by specific people?”

Problem Child says:
“You and Dhalgren took issue with the song lyrics, which I thought were in bad taste. Tortoise did not respond.”

Lavy jumps in with:

“He's on my ignore list.

I don't care to respond to that element of Lit any longer.”

Whoops, Tortoise is back with:

“Fair enough, OTV (I'm assuming that was you). My PM was indeed an apology, and I didn't think I needed to make it public because the post that you were objecting to was not "aimed" at you or anyone. But I will gladly make it public now.

As some of you are aware, the lyrics in question are a Monty Python song. I posted them there in a silly attempt to illustrate the fact that lit can be anything you make it; I was listening to my "Monty Python Final Rip-Off" CD at the time, so I posted that, off-the-cuff. The song was just a bit of silliness; if I would have posted 5 minutes later, you would have been subjected to the Lumberjack Song instead, and none of this would have happened. I intended no offense to anybody, and I apologize whole-heartedly if any was caused. I had no intention of hurting any individual, or any group. Apparently my post hurt OTV badly, and for that I am deeply sorry.”

Sorry, but Tortoise seems to be holding the "higher ground" in this thread! God forbid that anyone should tell a joke, make a comparison or quote lyrics from a silly song that was intended to point out sillier attitudes expressed throughout society!

Let's see, Tortoise is "a useless waste of space and simply not worth the bother", "on my ignore list" and classed with or as a "specific type" as in "so few of us bother to read threads by specific people".

I searched for "T's" posts to see what kind of jerk we were dealing with and found Nothing! that would be considered out of the ordinary..........except, an apology for asking a question about a past post that was hurtful to some people on the board!

O_T_V asked, "How many more racists and ignorant people are on Lit?" Well, O_T_V , I take that as an affront to me and other relatively intelligent, thoughtfull and introspective individuals here! I think your problem is not the lyrics posted, but your experience with "bullies" in the schoolyard.

I find no one here criticizing comments about "red necks", conservatives (read right wing radicals), men, Texans or many other members of what might be considered a "majority" group. We will never overcome all prejudice in the world, I'm not sure we should!! What would the world be without Irish drinking jokes, blond jokes and yes, "red neck" jokes?

Just my opinion and I am entitled to it!

I wanted to post the lyrics to Randy Newmans "Short People", Just to prove that I can be as politically incorrect as I want to be, but I'm too tired!

RhumbRunner

 

[Dhalgren]

What would the world be without Irish drinking jokes, blond jokes and yes, "red neck" jokes?


Um..a better place?

 

[MunchinMark]

I may be stepping onto people's ignore lists but I quite agree with Rhumbrunner on this. Whilst Tortoise may have not cited the reasons, origin and copywrite for his quote, it was not, nor was it intended as a racist statement. I recognised the lyrics as belonging to monty python. About the only vaguely negative thing in the lyrics is the suggestion that the chinese are short. Well on the whole Chinese people are shorter than Europeans.

OTV. You cannot blame people here for events about which they are completely unaware. It is just not fair.

And the rest of you. Well there is nothing wrong with being supportive, but I would have expected better of you.

I'm sorry, but here the ignorance is equally shared by OTV and Tortoise. Ignorance is not a crime. I don't want to tip toe around here because some vague reference I make could be completely misconstrued by someone who then gets several respected members of the board to effectively lynch me.

To those about to put me on ignore for defending the poor soul swinging slightly from the tree, I'm a better person for not having to put up with your own ignorance.

 

[Dhalgren]

I do not believe people put other’s on ignore willy nilly…Mark.
Have no fear…

I’m a Python geek….I can quote so much Pyhon it’s a little disturbing.

I feel though.. that where he posted this little ditty had nothing to do with the thread.

And I said as much.

I don’t think its appropriate when it’s a song that has been used to taunt many people.

And you know, it is a mean spirited song..and the *context* Python wrote it in..absolutely relays that.

 

[MunchinMark]

Yeah, Tortoise should have at least said why he was posting 'I like Chinese'. But so many people here make references or jokes that I don't get and then halfway through the post say 'so only one person got the joke.' No-one launches into an attack on them for being too smarmy by half.

Thinking of the other songs on that CD (don't have it personally), if Tortoise had done 'the Lumberjack song', would someone have denounced him for being anti-Canadian? (Cross dressing lumberjacks and singing mounties!) Would the lesbians and maybe the feminists among us have come down on him like a ton of bricks if he had typed out the words to the 'Not the Noel Coward song' or 'isn't it awfully nice to have a penis'? I don't think that they would have. But if they had, would the rest of the board have reacted in quite the same way?