Race play

[intothewoods]

I tend to think of race "play" in the same way that I think of racial "humor."

Is it okay? Whether the goal is sexual gratification or laughter, well hey - it's a free country, and the 1st amendment applies to public officials, teachers, everyone. Sure.

But would knowledge of it alter my view of an individual? Yes, absolutely. Would I campaign for a white guy who routinely got off on this stuff or told racial "jokes" in private? Absolutely not.

Interesting. Are those two things really equivalent? I think racial jokes cause more harm than race play, if the latter is done discreetly and between consenting adults.

It depends on the context. If this is someone who sets up a wide variety of crazy shit just for the heck of it, out of boredom, and invites a lot of people to participate -- I would view that person differently than someone for whom THIS is what gets them off. Now, anyone running for public office should realize that anything they do with another person will probably come to light eventually. But putting that aside, I have sympathy for people who can only get off on stuff that most other people find unpalatable.

 

[JMohegan]

Interesting. Are those two things really equivalent? I think racial jokes cause more harm than race play, if the latter is done discreetly and between consenting adults.

It depends on the context. If this is someone who sets up a wide variety of crazy shit just for the heck of it, out of boredom, and invites a lot of people to participate -- I would view that person differently than someone for whom THIS is what gets them off. Now, anyone running for public office should realize that anything they do with another person will probably come to light eventually. But putting that aside, I have sympathy for people who can only get off on stuff that most other people find unpalatable.

If a white guy could ONLY get off if race play were involved, that would be different, sure. But I have to wonder what would cause such a sexual orientation, and since I don't understand the cause, I'd find it very difficult to overlook it in a candidate for office.

Lots of racial "jokes" are "done discreetly and between consenting adults." Leaving aside the extreme guy I just referenced, how is getting your rocks off in private any different than laughing behind closed doors?

 

[rosco rathbone]

It's wrong and shameful, by all means.

But can be hot.

 

[YourCaptor]

Interesting.

Hey, I made that point fist and got no "interesting".

It’s a lot like a racist joke, it adds a lot of, oh man that’s fucked up funny, but would you want someone like McCain telling them, hell no.

See

If a white guy could ONLY get off if race play were involved, that would be different, sure. But I have to wonder what would cause such a sexual orientation, and since I don't understand the cause, I'd find it very difficult to overlook it in a candidate for office.

Lots of racial "jokes" are "done discreetly and between consenting adults." Leaving aside the extreme guy I just referenced, how is getting your rocks off in private any different than laughing behind closed doors?

At my university we have a huge black population. Well, actually it's more like a white island in a black city, but you know.

Anyway, racial jokes are not behind closed doors. I think its cause we understand race is dead. Yes racism is live and well, and fucked up, but race, it's just bullshit, so why not bullshit with it. Which has actually shocked me about this tread, when people say stuff like, "mixed race relationship", are you serious or fucking around? Or this one blew me away, "I guess I never grew up with the idea that having sex with someone of a different race was taboo." So what are you saying, porchmonkey - FOB sex is ok and not taboo at all.

I often see groups of black students walking by some white frat boys and say "ni---rs". I love seeing that, it's so perfect, and basically sums it all up right their.

 

[cathrynb]

.....

 

[rosco rathbone]

"Taking advantage" of the Spanish speaking "maid", knowing she won't go the the authorities because she's "illegal" and essentially a sex slave, is totally inappropriate [in the real world].

*boner

 

[intothewoods]

Hey, I made that point fist and got no "interesting".





See



At my university we have a huge black population. Well, actually it's more like a white island in a black city, but you know.

Anyway, racial jokes are not behind closed doors. I think its cause we understand race is dead. Yes racism is live and well, and fucked up, but race, it's just bullshit, so why not bullshit with it. Which has actually shocked me about this tread, when people say stuff like, "mixed race relationship", are you serious or fucking around? Or this one blew me away, "I guess I never grew up with the idea that having sex with someone of a different race was taboo." So what are you saying, porchmonkey - FOB sex is ok and not taboo at all.

I often see groups of black students walking by some white frat boys and say "ni---rs". I love seeing that, it's so perfect, and basically sums it all up right their.

I'm sorry, I totally missed that! You, YC, are fascinating.

Maybe jokes and sex are similar in that it's all how it's done. I'm looking for some self-awareness!

I feel like you have less control over your sexual desire than you do what jokes you tell. No, that's not it. I guess it's that sex drive is a more powerful urge than telling jokes.

 

[BiBunny]

I think it's interesting that many assume that race play = white dude lording it over black (or other minority) women. I assure you, that's far from the case.

 

[CutieMouse]

I think it's interesting that many assume that race play = white dude lording it over black (or other minority) women. I assure you, that's far from the case.

I was thinking the exact same thing. (Yes, many people may do the stereotypical white man/African American [minority] woman, but that doesn't entirely sum up race play.)

 

[Stella_Omega]

I was thinking the exact same thing. (Yes, many people may do the stereotypical white man/African American [minority] woman, but that doesn't entirely sum up race play.)

That's the part that can be really problematic though.

(you made a similar assumption there, darling-- man=Dom, woman=sub. )

 

[00Syd]

I think it's interesting that many assume that race play = white dude lording it over black (or other minority) women. I assure you, that's far from the case.

Yeah, I was thinking that, too.

Also, would someone who thinks poorly of a white dude lording it over a black woman in the context of race play think similarly poorly of the woman? As an example, I've encountered/met/know a number of Jewish women who get hot thinking about getting interrogated/tortured by nazi's. If one thinks poorly about nazi-play, would they think the same thing about the Jewish girl who's getting turned on by it as they would about the person playing the nazi?

Is there more sympathy for the "victim," even if the victim is complicit in a type of play that you find distasteful? Would they be easier to empathize with?

 

[intothewoods]

That's the part that can be really problematic though.

(you made a similar assumption there, darling-- man=Dom, woman=sub. )

Yeah, I think that's just the type that makes people the most uncomfortable, if the white PYL were the public figure.

 

[intothewoods]

Yeah, I was thinking that, too.

Also, would someone who thinks poorly of a white dude lording it over a black woman in the context of race play think similarly poorly of the woman? As an example, I've encountered/met/know a number of Jewish women who get hot thinking about getting interrogated/tortured by nazi's. If one thinks poorly about nazi-play, would they think the same thing about the Jewish girl who's getting turned on by it as they would about the person playing the nazi?

Is there more sympathy for the "victim," even if the victim is complicit in a type of play that you find distasteful? Would they be easier to empathize with?

I think the general public would maybe be less outraged, but still totally freaked out by the freakiness of it.

A lot depends on who you're talking to. It's like the way a lot of feminist vanilla friends of mine are comfortable with the idea of a domme, but weirded out by M-Dom/f-sub relationships. The power role reversal makes people feel more comfortable. I'm not saying that's right. It's just something I've noticed.

 

[00Syd]

I think the general public would maybe be less outraged, but still totally freaked out by the freakiness of it.

A lot depends on who you're talking to. It's like the way a lot of feminist vanilla friends of mine are comfortable with the idea of a domme, but weirded out by M-Dom/f-sub relationships. The power role reversal makes people feel more comfortable. I'm not saying that's right. It's just something I've noticed.

Yeah, huh. I'm only asking because I've encountered outrage about folks being on the PYL side of race play, but never about the pyl side of it. So I'm honestly just curious what people think about that.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yeah, I think that's just the type that makes people the most uncomfortable, if the white PYL were the public figure.

I disagree. I think my discomfort with an *already-powerful* white PYL/black pyl would trump what sex they are respectively.

I think the general public would maybe be less outraged, but still totally freaked out by the freakiness of it.

A lot depends on who you're talking to. It's like the way a lot of feminist vanilla friends of mine are comfortable with the idea of a domme, but weirded out by M-Dom/f-sub relationships. The power role reversal makes people feel more comfortable. I'm not saying that's right. It's just something I've noticed.

And that would be me, one of your feminist friends. And it isn't that I'm weirded out by M-Dom/f-sub individually, I'm weirded out by the way so many people here talk with it as the default.

The power role reversal does make me feel more comfortable. Someone in power who wants to give up that power for a while? That makes sense to me. Someone in power who has to remain in power at home as well? I'm worrying about their emotional stability. There's no balance.

 

[00Syd]

I disagree. I think my discomfort with an *already-powerful* white PYL/black pyl would trump what sex they are respectively.

And that would be me, one of your feminist friends. And it isn't that I'm weirded out by M-Dom/f-sub individually, I'm weirded out by the way so many people here talk with it as the default.

The power role reversal does make me feel more comfortable. Someone in power who wants to give up that power for a while? That makes sense to me. Someone in power who has to remain in power at home as well? I'm worrying about their emotional stability. There's no balance.

I don't think that your social role, and how much power you have in society, or don't, dictates what your sexual preference is. So, I don't think it's weird that some people who have power would get turned on by power in the bedroom, or that some would get turned on by giving it up. Whatever sense of balance might be perceived by outsiders doesn't do much to address each individuals personal sense of balance, which might be very different from person to person. So, not worried.


*shrug*

 

[BiBunny]

I don't think that your social role, and how much power you have in society, or don't, dictates what your sexual preference is. So, I don't think it's weird that some people who have power would get turned on by power in the bedroom, or that some would get turned on by giving it up. Whatever sense of balance might be perceived by outsiders doesn't do much to address each individuals personal sense of balance, which might be very different from person to person. So, not worried.


*shrug*

Yes. This. Like.

 

[JMohegan]

Also, would someone who thinks poorly of a white dude lording it over a black woman in the context of race play think similarly poorly of the woman? As an example, I've encountered/met/know a number of Jewish women who get hot thinking about getting interrogated/tortured by nazi's. If one thinks poorly about nazi-play, would they think the same thing about the Jewish girl who's getting turned on by it as they would about the person playing the nazi?

Is there more sympathy for the "victim," even if the victim is complicit in a type of play that you find distasteful? Would they be easier to empathize with?

Again, just to be clear - thumbs up for sexual freedom and consenting adults. I'm not gonna berate someone for doing this, top or bottom.

However, to answer your question - barring compelling explanation to the contrary, I would assume that a Jewish bottom in your scenario has complicated identity issues that are being worked out somehow by eroticizing the Holocaust. What they might be, I've got no idea.

I would assume that a top who would be willing to participate in your scenario is either: A) a devoted service top (i.e., doing it solely to get the previously mentioned bottom off), or B) someone who likes to be outrageous (and doesn't really care how that goal is accomplished), or C) a bigoted asshole who genuinely finds degradation of Jews erotic, or D) someone who gets off on the trapped helplessness of the victim, rather than the degradation of Jews per se (akin to Rosco's boner re the maid.)

 

[JMohegan]

At my university we have a huge black population. Well, actually it's more like a white island in a black city, but you know.

Anyway, racial jokes are not behind closed doors. I think its cause we understand race is dead. Yes racism is live and well, and fucked up, but race, it's just bullshit, so why not bullshit with it. Which has actually shocked me about this tread, when people say stuff like, "mixed race relationship", are you serious or fucking around? Or this one blew me away, "I guess I never grew up with the idea that having sex with someone of a different race was taboo." So what are you saying, porchmonkey - FOB sex is ok and not taboo at all.

I often see groups of black students walking by some white frat boys and say "ni---rs". I love seeing that, it's so perfect, and basically sums it all up right their.

I belonged to a mixed frat, back in the day. So if you're seeing groups of black students, separate from groups of white frat boys, that's a step backwards from my perspective.

Also, what's up with declaring "race is dead," and then defining the groups you see by race?

 

[00Syd]

Again, just to be clear - thumbs up for sexual freedom and consenting adults. I'm not gonna berate someone for doing this, top or bottom.

However, to answer your question - barring compelling explanation to the contrary, I would assume that a Jewish bottom in your scenario has complicated identity issues that are being worked out somehow by eroticizing the Holocaust. What they might be, I've got no idea.

I would assume that a top who would be willing to participate in your scenario is either: A) a devoted service top (i.e., doing it solely to get the previously mentioned bottom off), or B) someone who likes to be outrageous (and doesn't really care how that goal is accomplished), or C) a bigoted asshole who genuinely finds degradation of Jews erotic, or D) someone who gets off on the trapped helplessness of the victim, rather than the degradation of Jews per se (akin to Rosco's boner re the maid.)

Why is it that the bottom must be working out complicated identity issues? Don't you think its possible that the bottom in this scenario might enjoy it for the same reason you outline in possibility D for tops who get off on this sort of play?

D) someone who gets off on the trapped helplessness of the victim, rather than the degradation of Jews per se (akin to Rosco's boner re the maid.)

Why can't it simply be a hot scenario, regardless of race, religion, OR orientation?

 

[JMohegan]

Why is it that the bottom must be working out complicated identity issues? Don't you think its possible that the bottom in this scenario might enjoy it for the same reason you outline in possibility D for tops who get off on this sort of play?



Why can't it simply be a hot scenario, regardless of race, religion, OR orientation?

In theory, I suppose it can.

To me, this is like thinking about scat play. How the hell one gets aroused while doing it, I just simply can't fathom.

 

[YourCaptor]

I never said racism is dead. That is certainly not true!

I just said I wasn't raised to believe having sex with someone of a different race was wrong. In fact, I am the product of an inter-racial marriage and have dated people of various different ethnicities. I've never engaged in race play though.

Not racism is dead, but race is dead. Race is not a synonym for ethnicity you know, it’s something else. There is no physical thing that allows for the classification of races. Race was the product of subjugation, pseudoscience, and over all idiocy, fear, what have you. It’s a conceptual thing of the colonists mind, it’s not a real entity.

 

[YourCaptor]

You, YC, are fascinating.

I know right. Totally on the same page.

Maybe jokes and sex are similar in that it's all how it's done. I'm looking for some self-awareness!

I feel like you have less control over your sexual desire than you do what jokes you tell. No, that's not it. I guess it's that sex drive is a more powerful urge than telling jokes.

Yes sex can be a powerful desire, but race play is still a choice.

That’s the issue with it I think, because race play is a choice, does that make it wrong? By doing it, you are choosing to indulge in racism. Then follows, why does racism get you pleasure? And does the answer to that question make playing with it a problem?

If yes, and the person in question has some important role in the community, I think they should refrain.

 

[YourCaptor]

Yeah, I was thinking that, too.

Also, would someone who thinks poorly of a white dude lording it over a black woman in the context of race play think similarly poorly of the woman? As an example, I've encountered/met/know a number of Jewish women who get hot thinking about getting interrogated/tortured by nazi's. If one thinks poorly about nazi-play, would they think the same thing about the Jewish girl who's getting turned on by it as they would about the person playing the nazi?

Is there more sympathy for the "victim," even if the victim is complicit in a type of play that you find distasteful? Would they be easier to empathize with?

I find people seem to think the PYL is fucked up, and the pyl is an ignorant victim. I assume the same would play out for race play.

 

[YourCaptor]

I belonged to a mixed frat, back in the day. So if you're seeing groups of black students, separate from groups of white frat boys, that's a step backwards from my perspective.

Also, what's up with declaring "race is dead," and then defining the groups you see by race?

Black is causal for African American, and people tend to hang out with those they know. I don’t get how you mean, that’s a step backwards?

Black culture, or if you must, African American culture is different than White culture, or European-American culture, big surprise.

Not only that but the well educated, serious about school type students tend to also lead a different life than the drunken, I'm in school to get laid morons.

Hmm, I guess I forgot to mention those white fratboys where generally idiots.