R...

[kinked_a_bit]

And...

 

[ll74]

And the opportunity presented by R v U isn’t geopolitical, commercial, etc. It’s an opportunity to learn who is offering truth and who is offering lies.

Are you looking for truth or are you looking for facts? They are not synonymous

Even now, you can see that the American MSM is still saying Ukraine is winning, inflicting heavy losses, and wearing down the Russians.

Source?

Independent journalism says the exact opposite. They say the war is effectively over and Ukrainian forces have been crushed.

Source?

Since the two sides couldn’t be offering more different versions of what is happening, and since both of them seem to think the end is in sight, it is a great opportunity to see which one is true and which one is propaganda.

Based on whose judgement?

Overall, for a thread determined to be some sort of analysis of information, you sure do lack information.

 

[Comshaw]

And the opportunity presented by R v U isn’t geopolitical, commercial, etc. It’s an opportunity to learn who is offering truth and who is offering lies.

Even now, you can see that the American MSM is still saying Ukraine is winning, inflicting heavy losses, and wearing down the Russians.

Independent journalism says the exact opposite. They say the war is effectively over and Ukrainian forces have been crushed.

Since the two sides couldn’t be offering more different versions of what is happening, and since both of them seem to think the end is in sight, it is a great opportunity to see which one is true and which one is propaganda.

You would refute any such claim from someone you didn't agree with or trust unless verification or a cite was offered. Why should those who disagree with your assessment or not trust you to tell the truth do otherwise? Show us the way to this "Independent Journalism". Convince us with facts rather than hyperbole and unsubstantiated claims. As requested by ll74, source?

Comshaw

 

[jaF0]

What is not in dispute is that UKR is gaining ground, expanding the bridgehead and hitting RU deeper and deeper into their own territory. RU stuff is magically going up in flames and smoke well inside RU proper. Is it UKR commandos? Or RU opposition?

The Kerch bridges has been hit multiple times, RU ships have been disabled and/or sunk in areas no one expected them to be vulnerable.

 

[jaF0]

RU has been pulling WWII era armor out of deep storage, cannibalizing several to be able to send one to UKR where it's promptly destroyed.

Vlad isn't even able to do the mass mobilization of recruits he wanted to do because of opposition and lack of funding/resources. The opnes that do get sent are often very young, very old, or criminal 'paroled' on condition they go. They are untrained, poorly equipped, not well supported and often don't want to fight at all. They get faced with being killed by UKR in a fight or killed by RU if they try to avoid one.

 

[SmokingFap]

And the opportunity presented by R v U isn’t geopolitical, commercial, etc. It’s an opportunity to learn who is offering truth and who is offering lies.

Even now, you can see that the American MSM is still saying Ukraine is winning, inflicting heavy losses, and wearing down the Russians.

Independent journalism says the exact opposite. They say the war is effectively over and Ukrainian forces have been crushed.

Since the two sides couldn’t be offering more different versions of what is happening, and since both of them seem to think the end is in sight, it is a great opportunity to see which one is true and which one is propaganda.

So this is a massive opportunity for you to tell everyone that your hand-picked sources, which you don't name or cite any specific articles or videos from, are the only ones telling the truth, right?

Got it. Moving on.

 

[jaF0]

And things are not being widely reported by either side, but documented on military intelligence websites.

Artillery piece barrels have a limited life. They can only be fired so many times before they need to be replaced, or lose accuracy and potentially become unsafe. RU does not have the manufacturing capacity to replace them. That means they are losing the ability to use artillery even if it isn't destroyed by UKR.


There have also been claims that some of the artillery rounds supplied by NK are improperly sized or just plain defective. Some don't fit tightly enough in barrels and gasses pass reducing range, or fit too tight and jam or destroy the gun barrels.

 

[Wonderer67]

This is a war of attrition. The Russians will eventually win because they have more people, more equipment and more time.

Ukrainians will try to make them pay by killing as many Russians as possible.

It depends what “winning” means.

Russia: keep Ukraine unstable, preferable regime change, keep
Them from joining EU and or NATO.

Ukraine: make the Russians pay dearly for everything. Keep EU/NATO on their side, keep equipment flowing. Retake lost territory (which they won’t)

I could see a long guerilla war behind Russian lines. It’s already happening.

Who will blink first? there is a lot of bad blood between Ukrainians and Russians.

It’s a shit show. For the record, I am backing Ukraine in this one but it’s a tough row for them to hoe.

 

[jaF0]

I could see a long guerilla war behind Russian lines. It’s already happening.

There has been combat of varying degrees in the eastern regions since RU invaded in 2014 or so. RU sympathizers and loyalists have been quite active.

 

[Wonderer67]

Same goes for Ukrainians who are in Donbas.

Anyway - this whole thing has been a shit show, esp for the Russians, but the Ukrainians will not be able to wage war forever, unfortunately.

Hope I am wrong. Russians will throw numbers at it. After Putin wins “election” next year there will likely be a full rus mobilization. He’s gotta make this go away.

 

[Bray123]

There's similarities with the Russia-Finland war of 1939. Just stopping the vastly superior Russian forces in their tracks was a massive success and showed that it was possible to think that a victory was possible.

The Russians have been stopped in their tracks in Ukraine. It's not over yet (they may never be pushed back and relinquish Crimea) but it's a significant loss even just being forced into a stagnant trench war.

 

[Bn2f]

And the opportunity presented by R v U isn’t geopolitical, commercial, etc. It’s an opportunity to learn who is offering truth and who is offering lies.

Even now, you can see that the American MSM is still saying Ukraine is winning, inflicting heavy losses, and wearing down the Russians.

Independent journalism says the exact opposite. They say the war is effectively over and Ukrainian forces have been crushed.

Since the two sides couldn’t be offering more different versions of what is happening, and since both of them seem to think the end is in sight, it is a great opportunity to see which one is true and which one is propaganda.

Why venture all the way to Ukraine to determine truth from propaganda?

Kinked: Is Joseph Biden the duly elected president? Was the 2020 election stolen?

 

[jaF0]

but the Ukrainians will not be able to wage war forever, unfortunately.

UKR is probably better armed and trained that they ever have been. They stopped the initial RU advance in large part with their own home made devices.

There's similarities with the Russia-Finland war of 1939. Just stopping the vastly superior Russian forces in their tracks was a massive success and showed that it was possible to think that a victory was possible.

The Russians have been stopped in their tracks in Ukraine. It's not over yet (they may never be pushed back and relinquish Crimea) but it's a significant loss even just being forced into a stagnant trench war.

Has RU ever successfully taken and held areas by force since 1900? They made it to Berlin, buit didn't hold much of the area.

 

[jaF0]

Why am I getting the stench of a trailer hitch?

 

[Wonderer67]

UKR is probably better armed and trained that they ever have been. They stopped the initial RU advance in large part with their own home made devices.

They blunted the initial attacks largely due to decimating Russian spearheads with NLAWs and Javelins. Yes, also superior tactics. (And shitty Russian ones and also abysmally poor Russian logistics)

The Ukrainians are being bled white. The Russians throw people at the problem. Look at bakhmhut and now avdiikva (spelling on both).

Yes, Ukrainians seem to be forcing a river opening on the dnipro river. I would be shocked if they could exploit it tho. Hopefully.

Has RU ever successfully taken and held areas by force since 1900? They made it to Berlin, buit didn't hold much of the area.

They haven’t had to. They simply installed puppet regimes who harshly repressed the populace.

And in 56 and 68 they sent in the tanks when they needed to.

Holding territory by force is never a good strategy.

 

[Wonderer67]

Why am I getting the stench of a trailer hitch?

Are you referring to me?

 

[SmokingFap]

 

[LupusDei]

Yes, Ukrainians seem to be forcing a river opening on the dnipro river. I would be shocked if they could exploit it tho. Hopefully.

The hilarious thing about it is, by the books Ukrainians are in 1 vs 20 fight over there. Literally three forward deployed companies against dozen brigades in prepared positions, and Ukrainians are holding the bridgehead and expanding. Slowly but steadily.

Russians are crawling on in the east, but the amount of material that is chewed up is staggering. If only Ukrainians weren't so ammo starved... some mortar teams can fire only hundred rounds per month.

Russians still do have vast numbers and reserves of equipment, even if of questionable quality. Chewing through all that may still make word a better place eventually, but it shouldn't be necessary.

There was an opportunity to bring this to end this past summer, but it was wasted. There's no rational reason why Ukrainians should be lacking resources, only indecisiveness of the western partners. Yes, they would have needed more ammunition than there is in the world. That's not going away, they will still need that amount and more. Dragging it out only increases the cost on everyone.

The apparent "stalemate" is because, the increase in firepower and battlefield awareness once and again favor defense heavily, even though the ground truth that any static defense will be overcome with enough force haven't been cancelled. That is why Ukrainians have to gradually retreat in those exchanges. But the current balance is fine tuned by chance and very unstable. Race to the collapse is unpredictable.

Ukrainians won't stop fighting even if they are rendered unable to; they are in existential fight for survival or believe so, in a war for true independence. So are Russians, paradoxically, only in their case it is the abstract greatness of an empire that is in danger, but that is a concept too dear for too many. Culling the mislead is a daunting task, and inefficient, because the instigators aren't on the firing line.

Vlad is going to spend more than one third of the budget on the war next year. Before you wonder what he can buy on that money if Russia is still unable to produce bearings domestically, look at how export of machine parts to Uzbekistan had skyrocketed mysteriously. I mean, German and UK, and others. Sanctions are being flaunted through middlemen. Sure, even if they refurbish the thousand tanks next year (as some claim they could), it's only a third of their loses, but as I said, dragging this out isn't fun for anyone but very cynical folks.

Ukraine must win, win on the battlefield as there's no other choice, and asap. No, it won't bring lasting piece, not likely for a while. Yes, it will need more help than some would be selfishly comfortable with. But I strongly believe fate of humanity depends on it and we might even already be past the window of best outcomes.

Eventually we... yes, while I'm not Ukrainian they are very much my tribe... we will win even if it takes decades. The previous battle took half a century. But the damage done in the meantime isn't measured only by cities reduced to rubble right now. The poisonous influence of true evil Russia represents is much more widespread. Hamas attack was a birthday present, for one small example. They are fighting for returning the world to the past, something akin eighteen century in the worst sense. It is a losing battle, such had always be, but the sooner and the more soundly they are defeated the better for everyone everywhere, even if many seem unable to realize that.

 

[Lazaran]

The hilarious thing about it is, by the books Ukrainians are in 1 vs 20 fight over there. Literally three forward deployed companies against dozen brigades in prepared positions, and Ukrainians are holding the bridgehead and expanding. Slowly but steadily.

Russians are crawling on in the east, but the amount of material that is chewed up is staggering. If only Ukrainians weren't so ammo starved... some mortar teams can fire only hundred rounds per month.

Russians still do have vast numbers and reserves of equipment, even if of questionable quality. Chewing through all that may still make word a better place eventually, but it shouldn't be necessary.

There was an opportunity to bring this to end this past summer, but it was wasted. There's no rational reason why Ukrainians should be lacking resources, only indecisiveness of the western partners. Yes, they would have needed more ammunition than there is in the world. That's not going away, they will still need that amount and more. Dragging it out only increases the cost on everyone.

The apparent "stalemate" is because, the increase in firepower and battlefield awareness once and again favor defense heavily, even though the ground truth that any static defense will be overcome with enough force haven't been cancelled. That is why Ukrainians have to gradually retreat in those exchanges. But the current balance is fine tuned by chance and very unstable. Race to the collapse is unpredictable.

Ukrainians won't stop fighting even if they are rendered unable to; they are in existential fight for survival or believe so, in a war for true independence. So are Russians, paradoxically, only in their case it is the abstract greatness of an empire that is in danger, but that is a concept too dear for too many. Culling the mislead is a daunting task, and inefficient, because the instigators aren't on the firing line.

Vlad is going to spend more than one third of the budget on the war next year. Before you wonder what he can buy on that money if Russia is still unable to produce bearings domestically, look at how export of machine parts to Uzbekistan had skyrocketed mysteriously. I mean, German and UK, and others. Sanctions are being flaunted through middlemen. Sure, even if they refurbish the thousand tanks next year (as some claim they could), it's only a third of their loses, but as I said, dragging this out isn't fun for anyone but very cynical folks.

Ukraine must win, win on the battlefield as there's no other choice, and asap. No, it won't bring lasting piece, not likely for a while. Yes, it will need more help than some would be selfishly comfortable with. But I strongly believe fate of humanity depends on it and we might even already be past the window of best outcomes.

Eventually we... yes, while I'm not Ukrainian they are very much my tribe... we will win even if it takes decades. The previous battle took half a century. But the damage done in the meantime isn't measured only by cities reduced to rubble right now. The poisonous influence of true evil Russia represents is much more widespread. Hamas attack was a birthday present, for one small example. They are fighting for returning the world to the past, something akin eighteen century in the worst sense. It is a losing battle, such had always be, but the sooner and the more soundly they are defeated the better for everyone everywhere, even if many seem unable to realize that.

The Ukrainians need to continue to make this a war of human and financial attrition for Putin and Russia.

The Kerch Bridge needs to be taken out completely. - It will be interesting to see if the soon to arrive F-16s and the longer ranged GLSDBs can contribute to taking out the Kerch Bridge.

Drone production and perfecting is taking place in Ukraine on a massive scale, which bodes well for the Ukrainians in the future.

The key imho, is for the Ukrainians to bypass the Russian defenses with long range Air, Land, and Sea launched attacks of all sorts on high price / value Russian targets. Between sanctions and the expense of repairing / replacing high price / value equipment and installations, along with the resulting casualties, the Russians cost benefit analysis may be altered enough to prompt a change in strategy involving leaving Ukraine.



Slava Ukraini!!!

 

[Rightguide]

Are you looking for truth or are you looking for facts? They are not synonymous

https://www.thesaurus.com/ says it is.

 

[Rightguide]

They blunted the initial attacks largely due to decimating Russian spearheads with NLAWs and Javelins. Yes, also superior tactics. (And shitty Russian ones and also abysmally poor Russian logistics)

The Ukrainians are being bled white. The Russians throw people at the problem. Look at bakhmhut and now avdiikva (spelling on both).

JaFo never heard of Stalingrad.

 

[Wonderer67]

The hilarious thing about it is, by the books Ukrainians are in 1 vs 20 fight over there. Literally three forward deployed companies against dozen brigades in prepared positions, and Ukrainians are holding the bridgehead and expanding. Slowly but steadily.

Russians are crawling on in the east, but the amount of material that is chewed up is staggering. If only Ukrainians weren't so ammo starved... some mortar teams can fire only hundred rounds per month.

Russians still do have vast numbers and reserves of equipment, even if of questionable quality. Chewing through all that may still make word a better place eventually, but it shouldn't be necessary.

There was an opportunity to bring this to end this past summer, but it was wasted. There's no rational reason why Ukrainians should be lacking resources, only indecisiveness of the western partners. Yes, they would have needed more ammunition than there is in the world. That's not going away, they will still need that amount and more. Dragging it out only increases the cost on everyone.

The apparent "stalemate" is because, the increase in firepower and battlefield awareness once and again favor defense heavily, even though the ground truth that any static defense will be overcome with enough force haven't been cancelled. That is why Ukrainians have to gradually retreat in those exchanges. But the current balance is fine tuned by chance and very unstable. Race to the collapse is unpredictable.

Ukrainians won't stop fighting even if they are rendered unable to; they are in existential fight for survival or believe so, in a war for true independence. So are Russians, paradoxically, only in their case it is the abstract greatness of an empire that is in danger, but that is a concept too dear for too many. Culling the mislead is a daunting task, and inefficient, because the instigators aren't on the firing line.

Vlad is going to spend more than one third of the budget on the war next year. Before you wonder what he can buy on that money if Russia is still unable to produce bearings domestically, look at how export of machine parts to Uzbekistan had skyrocketed mysteriously. I mean, German and UK, and others. Sanctions are being flaunted through middlemen. Sure, even if they refurbish the thousand tanks next year (as some claim they could), it's only a third of their loses, but as I said, dragging this out isn't fun for anyone but very cynical folks.

Ukraine must win, win on the battlefield as there's no other choice, and asap. No, it won't bring lasting piece, not likely for a while. Yes, it will need more help than some would be selfishly comfortable with. But I strongly believe fate of humanity depends on it and we might even already be past the window of best outcomes.

Eventually we... yes, while I'm not Ukrainian they are very much my tribe... we will win even if it takes decades. The previous battle took half a century. But the damage done in the meantime isn't measured only by cities reduced to rubble right now. The poisonous influence of true evil Russia represents is much more widespread. Hamas attack was a birthday present, for one small example. They are fighting for returning the world to the past, something akin eighteen century in the worst sense. It is a losing battle, such had always be, but the sooner and the more soundly they are defeated the better for everyone everywhere, even if many seem unable to realize that.

This is well written. Thank you.

 

[ll74]

https://www.thesaurus.com/ says it is.

And? They aren't the same. The truth is how you understand and believe on the topic. Facts don't give a shit about either.

 

[coati]

Damn that was a lot of typing just to tell us you have no idea what you’re talking about.

He obviously knows a lot more than a simple-minded talking point parrot like you.

 

[LupusDei]

Seemingly of topic... but, as if.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1729895945280884864