Quid Pro Quo Mutual Read & Comment

[Gamblnluck]

So its a fantasy of misogyny to appeal to incels and knuckle draggers is what you're saying. A LW mouth breather manifesto. What a shock.

Actually it's not. It is an essay outlining a futuristic society where to perpetuate the species studs are used and some wives drafted to be impregnated. The husbands would raise the 'state-issued progeny.'

 

[lovecraft68]

Actually it's not. It is an essay outlining a futuristic society where to perpetuate the species studs are used and some wives drafted to be impregnated. The husbands would raise the 'state-issued progeny.'

Um, yeah "studs" strokes the male ego and the men raising the children is another incel fantasy because women are too awful to raise the kids.

My initial opinion stands. You just have to think a bit to see it. But that leaves a large portion of men out in the cold.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Um, yeah "studs" strokes the male ego and the men raising the children is another incel fantasy because women are too awful to raise the kids.

My initial opinion stands. You just have to think a bit to see it. But that leaves a large portion of men out in the cold.

In his society, the women didn;t have much input. At least he did not give them much of a voice.
Yeah, leaving a large portion of men out in the cold is the fallacy of the society. Any society needs support from the masses. A portion of the masses can be duped but only for a short time. The idea of the super minority ruling class of 'alphas' would fall apart quickly.

 

[inka]

I read your Aztec short story you linked us to. I left a long comment saying everything I could think to, positives and opinions, what I liked and what I wish there was even more of. As I noted with another author above, literotica takes days to approve comments, so... oh and also do take your time reading The Type, like your own fantastic slowburn style it is a big meal made for sitting and chewing, not a quick fap.

Cheers Inka!

Slow burn! ...and burn and burn...

Thank you for reading some of my work, even though neither story is your preferred content! And I while I glow under the compliments, your feedback is exceptional! I will take your words into consideration in future projects to better the craft. Thank you again!
You asked questions, and I'll answer them if you would like them answered, shoot me a PM.

I'm chugging though The Type still. Its amazing so far! The scene with Garin, Lyrou, and Andrea was delicious and beyond perfect! But I'll have better comments once I finish the read.
I think you're right, anyone with the patience to read to the end of page one will likely be hooked, and stay for the full ride.

 

[PierceDe]

Slow burn! ...and burn and burn...

Thank you for reading some of my work, even though neither story is your preferred content! And I while I glow under the compliments, your feedback is exceptional! I will take your words into consideration in future projects to better the craft. Thank you again!
You asked questions, and I'll answer them if you would like them answered, shoot me a PM.

I'm chugging though The Type still. Its amazing so far! The scene with Garin, Lyrou, and Andrea was delicious and beyond perfect! But I'll have better comments once I finish the read.
I think you're right, anyone with the patience to read to the end of page one will likely be hooked, and stay for the full ride.

Hey! Excited to hear you're savoring the deep read, the kind that let's you forget yourself and think for a moment you are Lyrou or you are Garin.

I was worried the big Andrea scene would be too much naughty for some readers, I'm glad you downed it with a smile.

As lengthy as the novel is I didn't include the 85,000 word ending here. It'll seem that it's halted abruptly with a lot of untied loose ends, that's intentional. Just keep that in mind and don't throw your hands up in Sopranos finale frustration. LOL

If you have any other works of your own you recommend please reply with the link here and I'll be on it like a vampire on a virgin neck.

 

[inka]

I was worried the big Andrea scene would be too much naughty for some readers, I'm glad you downed it with a smile.

The scene was a lot, but that was the whole point, n'est-ce pas? An exhibition shouldn't be told in subtlety.

As big as the novel is I didn't include the 85,000 word ending here. It'll seem that it's ended abruptly with a lot of untied loose ends, that's intentional. Just keep that in mind and don't throw your hands up in Sopranos finale frustration. LOL

I'll keep this in mind.

If you have any other works of your own you recommend please reply with the link here and I'll be on it like a vampire on a virgin neck.

I do not, beyond the chaptered series, that is the extent of my works.

 

[PierceDe]

not, beyond the chaptered series

Tales of Slavery it is then, I'm scared Inka.

 

[inka]

Tales of Slavery it is then, I'm scared Inka.

Not sorry. Be afraid.

 

[Auden James]

I commend the pledge of a quid pro quo gentleman's agreement, @PierceDe, thus I will fulfill my part by giving you what you fiend for with regard to your DIC Appointment Program.

First of all, I am supportive of anyone who makes up their mind about the near or far future of human society (making predictions and forethinking may arguably be the very things that set us apart as humans). Hence, I was intrigued when I read that you published a work precisely along these thematic lines. Kudos to you for that!

To my mind, however, the future you envision in DIC is not really coherent. This starts already with the basic premise that only parous women would be eligible for the program, thereby giving all women a simple way out of being drafted: not producing any offspring. Since nowhere in your outline of the future is there a hint that contraceptive means would have been banned, this option is not only on the table but viable. Futhermore, even if a sizeable part of this future state’s parous womenfolk were drafted each year, the haphazard timing and appointment management would almost certainly counteract or at least vitiate the declared goal of raising birthrates, for randomly appointing women for a single gang bang will not at all result in a series of non-random pregnancies. Besides that, what even is the point of making up to six paramours attend a single woman per session? This, for sure, promotes sperm competition, but since the paramours are selected by the state beforehand, what is the purpose then? This, again, seems highly inefficient or even implausible if we take the rumored (and nowhere in your outline disconfirmed) 5M women drafted each year, in which case a battalion of up to 82k paramours would be needed to guarantee that all drafted women could be served even if all of them should happen to roll a 6 with their dice (5M sessions in a 365 days year means ~13,699 sessions daily means up to 82,194 paramours needed if we presume that each paramour is maximally used once per day to ensure sperm quality). Even if we were more pragmatic and recruited the paramours on a probabilistic basis by making use of the central limit theorem, the battalion of paramours would still need to be ~48k men strong (99th percentile, SD ~199). In light if this it is a glaring omission to not say anything in your outline about the selection process of this sizeable pool of needed men (the so-called “paramours”)!

Moreover, the DIC outline seems self-contradictory in the details. E.g., first it is stated that surveys of drafted women would reveal “higher waist-to-hip ratios,” but later—seemingly on the basis of the same surveys—it is stated as fact that at 0.68 these ratios cluster “far tighter than the national average in feminine curvature.” Which is it? If we take the latter, this, once again, seems highly implausible, for a WHR of 0.68 is not only ideal but ‘superideal’ (even lower than the reportedly ideal 0.70 for the Western world). Now, with the outline suggesting that out of 100M eligible parous women (without any further classification or subdivision, e.g., by age, fertility, etc.) the considerable number of 5M women would be drafted each year, what would be the likelihood for the WHR of all these 5M women “clustering nearer the ideal 0.68?” How would the state even know of the WHR of these 5M parous women? Similar questions arise with regard to the other suggested “deviations from the population baseline” (breast volume, facial attractiveness).

Apart from these considerations concerning the basic assumptions of the proposed Delimited Insemination Clinic Appointment Program (more could be said, for example, about the presumed causal mechanism between no-fault divorce and plummeting birthrates), I would like to point out that the formal presentation of your outline is not coherent either. Seemingly at random, academic authorities are cited (e.g., “Prof. Philip Robins, Department of Demography, The Academy of St. Drogo”), but where these citations start and end is not made clear (often there is only one quotation mark there, with the second of the necessary pair nowhere to be found). And the many subheadings are a rather unfortunate stylistic choice, mimicing or indicating—at least to the informed—AI-generated content (more sympathetically, this might be interpreted as a metafictional device, implying that this presentation of DIC would have been assembled by a fictional AI of the future). The essay-like presentation of your outline might fit in a greater novelistic work (likely of the more or less postmodern variety), but as a standalone it seems misplaced or ‘out of its element,’ especially on a site like the present one. For publication on this site a dialogical approach might have been more fruitful, e.g., in the vein of Plato (if you wanted to emphasize the theoretical underpinnings of the program) or in the form of a conversation between lovers where one of the two is from a foreign state and brings this up (maybe because they are trying for pregnancy). Either way, the current presentation style is suboptimal.

---

Now, having given my all for a comment of the nice fat kind dripping with feedback you were after, I shall take the liberty to provide you with a link to a story of my own (which just so happens to be the only one in English presently available on this site): Hard Measures.

I think that there are some aspects of it meriting refinement, and I am intrigued whether you will concur with that opinion (and, if so, which parts you will single out most deserving of being honed once more)!

 

[PierceDe]

Excellent,

1. On the question of pragmatically, would it raise the birth rate. My answer is probably not, as we find toward the end of the essay the program was more intended to cement tyranny, by mass psychology, than to actually raise the birth rate. If anything any gains in birth rate were a flimsy justification to push the program into existence over public objections. I didn't get into these more expansive details because that would greatly lengthen what's supposed to be a short-read fantasy. To keep up the facade of raising birth rates maybe we can assume the appointments are timed to match ovulation, or that fertility drugs are used, etc etc etc. Didn't add it because I half didn't think about it and half didn't want to get down into every detail. The sexy-horrible point is that there is a ministry that makes moms report almost at random for mandatory breeding.
Maybe birth control is strictly regulated. And maybe most women have their first child knowing it enters them into the lottery, guessing their odds are only 1 in 10 anyway and it's so normalized so what if she does become the 1 in 10... it's not worth living childless over.

2. The paramour corps would indeed need to number very many, I thought that was pretty hot the notion of a standing army of literal mother fuckers. Stormtroopers of cock, but with better aim!

3. The higher w-to-h ratio vs lower was a typoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Decapitate me please. As for the other points; the ministry knows not all women will have ideal proportions, but of the female citizens that do, they get plucked up and just lied to that they were drawn at random. You might find that models almost universally get selected, but the thing is the topic is taboo, private, and hushed down as conspiracy theories. How does the ministry know women's measurements; we already established hospitals are required to report to the ministry, perhaps routine physicals and draconian biometrics data.. or even ministry hottie scouts manage this. Type shit.

4. The essays are pure world-building sans characters to inhabit said world; that there are academic criticisms, editorial defenses, and the ministry head herself giving speeches about it.... they're non-narrative samplings of the dialogue that exists in this dystopia.

I'm thrilled my little story made you think up all these details. That is what I wanted most of all, and maybe someone out there fapped too (a story with no true sex scene getting even a single fap is an achievement).

I WILL PROCEED TO HARD MEASURES and pepper it both with sincere praise and constructive thread pulling. You will be notified by private message once i have.

My gratitude Auden.

I commend the pledge of a quid pro quo gentleman's agreement, @PierceDe, thus I will fulfill my part by giving you what you fiend for with regard to your DIC Appointment Program.

First of all, I am supportive of anyone who makes up their mind about the near or far future of human society (making predictions and forethinking may arguably be the very things that set us apart as humans). Hence, I was intrigued when I read that you published a work precisely along these thematic lines. Kudos to you for that!

To my mind, however, the future you envision in DIC is not really coherent. This starts already with the basic premise that only parous women would be eligible for the program, thereby giving all women a simple way out of being drafted: not producing any offspring. Since nowhere in your outline of the future is there a hint that contraceptive means would have been banned, this option is not only on the table but viable. Futhermore, even if a sizeable part of this future state’s parous womenfolk were drafted each year, the haphazard timing and appointment management would almost certainly counteract or at least vitiate the declared goal of raising birthrates, for randomly appointing women for a single gang bang will not at all result in a series of non-random pregnancies. Besides that, what even is the point of making up to six paramours attend a single woman per session? This, for sure, promotes sperm competition, but since the paramours are selected by the state beforehand, what is the purpose then? This, again, seems highly inefficient or even implausible if we take the rumored (and nowhere in your outline disconfirmed) 5M women drafted each year, in which case a battalion of up to 82k paramours would be needed to guarantee that all drafted women could be served even if all of them should happen to roll a 6 with their dice (5M sessions in a 365 days year means ~13,699 sessions daily means up to 82,194 paramours needed if we presume that each paramour is maximally used once per day to ensure sperm quality). Even if we were more pragmatic and recruited the paramours on a probabilistic basis by making use of the central limit theorem, the battalion of paramours would still need to be ~48k men strong (99th percentile, SD ~199). In light if this it is a glaring omission to not say anything in your outline about the selection process of this sizeable pool of needed men (the so-called “paramours”)!

Moreover, the DIC outline seems self-contradictory in the details. E.g., first it is stated that surveys of drafted women would reveal “higher waist-to-hip ratios,” but later—seemingly on the basis of the same surveys—it is stated as fact that at 0.68 these ratios cluster “far tighter than the national average in feminine curvature.” Which is it? If we take the latter, this, once again, seems highly implausible, for a WHR of 0.68 is not only ideal but ‘superideal’ (even lower than the reportedly ideal 0.70 for the Western world). Now, with the outline suggesting that out of 100M eligible parous women (without any further classification or subdivision, e.g., by age, fertility, etc.) the considerable number of 5M women would be drafted each year, what would be the likelihood for the WHR of all these 5M women “clustering nearer the ideal 0.68?” How would the state even know of the WHR of these 5M parous women? Similar questions arise with regard to the other suggested “deviations from the population baseline” (breast volume, facial attractiveness).

Apart from these considerations concerning the basic assumptions of the proposed Delimited Insemination Clinic Appointment Program (more could be said, for example, about the presumed causal mechanism between no-fault divorce and plummeting birthrates), I would like to point out that the formal presentation of your outline is not coherent either. Seemingly at random, academic authorities are cited (e.g., “Prof. Philip Robins, Department of Demography, The Academy of St. Drogo”), but where these citations start and end is not made clear (often there is only one quotation mark there, with the second of the necessary pair nowhere to be found). And the many subheadings are a rather unfortunate stylistic choice, mimicing or indicating—at least to the informed—AI-generated content (more sympathetically, this might be interpreted as a metafictional device, implying that this presentation of DIC would have been assembled by a fictional AI of the future). The essay-like presentation of your outline might fit in a greater novelistic work (likely of the more or less postmodern variety), but as a standalone it seems misplaced or ‘out of its element,’ especially on a site like the present one. For publication on this site a dialogical approach might have been more fruitful, e.g., in the vein of Plato (if you wanted to emphasize the theoretical underpinnings of the program) or in the form of a conversation between lovers where one of the two is from a foreign state and brings this up (maybe because they are trying for pregnancy). Either way, the current presentation style is suboptimal.

---

Now, having given my all for a comment of the nice fat kind dripping with feedback you were after, I shall take the liberty to provide you with a link to a story of my own (which just so happens to be the only one in English presently available on this site): Hard Measures.

I think that there are some aspects of it meriting refinement, and I am intrigued whether you will concur with that opinion (and, if so, which parts you will single out most deserving of being honed once more)!

 

[Auden James]

Thank you for your levelheaded reply, @PierceDe! (I have had other users in the past wanting to decapitate me after I provided them with a comment of this kind you are after.)

You bring up the ending of your outline of the future and its dictatorial undercurrent, and this reminds me of a question I wanted to ask you right from the start but forgot: Was the final line ("If you want a vision of the future, imagine a stranger fucking your wife, forever.") indeed intended as an allusion to Orwell's 1984? There O'Brien, Big Brother's grand inquisitor, famously says, "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever."

As to the "expansive details" you deliberately glossed over, I think that elaborating on them would have greatly enhanced the "sexy-horrible point" you wanted to bring to the fore by demonstrating to the reader the utter intricacy and inescapability of the program. The way the program is presently presented, it either seems to be broken (failing at its stated objectives) or to not work at all (the womenfolk opting out by simply deciding against having children). If you only wanted to convey the horror of being a mom in a society where a ministry could make you report (ostensibly) at random for mandatory breeding, then all the worldbuilding details you did incorporate in your outline of this future would have been superfluous! You could have simply written an account (not necessarily even a short story) of one such state-administered breeding appointment and be done with the academic authorities, the objectives of the program, the WHR ratios, etc. To present the reader, on the other hand, with a design for such a program sound even in the smallest detail would have been much more effective at drawing the picture of a perfect machinery of tyranny.

And, finally, considering the formidable challenge of answering all the open questions raised by your outline and stringing the possible answers to them together in a consistent way, what then is the net benefit of doing such "pure world-building" without heeding the tricky details too much? If you wanted to populate this future world with characters, all the open questions and missing details would come to rack your brain rather sooner than later anyway! And what is the point in worldbuilding for a writer when it does not beget some narrative progeny?

 

[PierceDe]

You are the 2nd or 3rd person to tell me it needs characters and narrative, I take that as a good sign. If I were to make a novella it would follow the female director of the ministry, running and expanding the program but also dealing with a sabotage and leak network working against-from-within the ministry, also lead by a woman of very opposite beliefs who personally knows the director but has not been identified. It would be a spy-ish dystopian erotica. The idea of the Soviet-esque (East Germanesque??) 48 year old MILF director herself being submitted to a DIC appointment gets me stiff.

Yes, Orwell reference. I tried to be a perverted Orwell for a day. I love Orwell too, especially Homage to Catalonia, stuff is fire.

Your idea that more details would have been better than fewer tells me the premise is intriguing. I wrote it on the axiom that more details than the basics would be boring. I also feared I wouldn't know where to draw the line, eventually getting down to how paramours are selected, what happens when a wife or her husband violently resist, abortion & contraceptives, babies being born not matching the father's appearance, how husbands and first children might treat or mistreat the offspring of paramours, if an AI really did invent the program, how big the dicks, what about immigrants, and even the position of foreigners and other governments. This is WONDERFUL for the reader who wants to nerd out but I couldn't imagine anyone wanting to nerd out for a short psuedo-erotica... I stand corrected.

I got your hot teacher story in the other tab. Let me at it.

 

[Auden James]

It would be a spy-ish dystopian erotica. The idea of the Soviet-esque (East Germanesque??) 48 year old MILF director herself being submitted to a DIC appointment gets me stiff.

The angle of secret plotting and backstabbing in a dystopian political machinery, ultimately governed by erotic motives, is indeed a promising one! However, would your envisioned directress not be a little too old at 48 to be still eligible? After all, in your present outline we read about the parous women and their eligibility, "She will remain in the lottery pool every year thereafter until she is medically exempted or formally 'retired' on the basis of age or infertility." What are the odds that a 48-year-old Western woman would still meet these official requirements for eligibility? And as directress, would it not be within her power to "exempt" herself?

This is WONDERFUL for the reader who wants to nerd out but I couldn't imagine anyone wanting to nerd out for a short psuedo-erotica... I stand corrected.

Sci-fi (and your outline is at least Sci-fi-ish) is not exactly known to be a domain destitute of nerds, or is it?

 

[PierceDe]

She would be temporarily forced to step down from being director when leaks cause a scandal/investigation. In the gap before reinstatement the saboteurs rig it by the same means she rigged it to guarantee she gets drawn.
48 isn't too old, but almost. In this world moms are retired from the annual lottery when they have ceased their menstrual cycle totally, usually at about age 51. The director has not.

"Nerds like Orwell Cuckery"
I didn't even include fuckbots, sodomy clones, or laser bdsm with leather aliens... though.