Quick, hide your porn!

[cheerful_deviant]

Utah sheriff to track porn at crime scenes
ACLU has questions about validity

The Associated Press
Updated: 7:21 p.m. ET Oct. 17, 2004


LOGAN, Utah - A sheriff’s department in northern Utah is requiring deputies to begin documenting pornography found at crime scenes and during arrests.

Lt. Matt Bilodeau, spokesman for the Cache County Sheriff’s Department, said that although no connection between legal porn viewing and criminal behavior has ever been proven, police have seen a steady increase in porn associated with crimes.

He likened the new tracking system to the approach police use with gang members.

“(Gangs) have certain clothes they wear, markings on their houses, tattoos,” Bilodeau said. “Like gangs, people who use pornography have associated traits, and we’ll define them so we can link them to crimes and pornography.”

Dani Eyer, head of American Civil Liberties Union of Utah, compared the program to scouring a suspect’s bookshelf and trying to create a criminal profile from the things that person reads.

“It’s one thing to collect evidence to crimes, but it’s another thing to link thought and association to crime,” she said.

 

[BlackShanglan]

“It’s one thing to collect evidence to crimes, but it’s another thing to link thought and association to crime,” she said.

Passionate as I am in the defense of individual freedoms ... is this spokeperson actually arguing that thought and association have no relation to crime? It happens instantaneously in a vacuum, with no thought or associative connections related to it?

That seems to me fairly close to unsupportable.

Shanglan

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

... is this spokeperson actually arguing that thought and association have no relation to crime? ...

Of course, the ACLU is totally wrong!

You, BlackShanglan, regularly visit a porn site which features pornographic literature about incest. What is more, you were found with the appropriate kind of paraphernalia used in such crimes.

The Cache County Deputy Sheriff had no other option than to book you, for your crime, for the safety of the community, and to help win the War on Terror.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Of course, the ACLU is totally wrong!

You, BlackShanglan, regularly visit a porn site which features pornographic literature about incest. What is more, you were found with the appropriate kind of paraphernalia used in such crimes.

The Cache County Deputy Sheriff had no other option than to book you, for your crime, for the safety of the community, and to help win the War on Terror.

An amusing lampoon of the situation, of course, but it does not answer the question. That question was not "should one be arrested for the possession of pornography?" but "is it valid to suggest that crime exists independently of thought and association?"

There is, of course, a great deal of good fun in presenting the "logical extreme" of an opposing position, given that most ideas taken to a "logical extreme" become very silly. However, that dodges the trickier but more significant question of the grounds on which we're basing our assumptions. I don't see anything in the above that tells me that it makes sense to assume that crime has no intellectual or associative components.

Shanglan

 

[cantdog]

They documented whether alcohol was a "factor" in car accidents, too. I was the ambulance man.

"Has he been drinking?" asked the state police man through his teeth. They wear those smokey the bear hats with the chin strap cinched really tight, and this guy's neck became three inches wider than his lantern jaw before it disappeared into his uniform.

"Yeah," I told him. He checked the box on his form. "But this is the passenger."

"Degenerates." He characterized, through his teeth, all young men of today who have been drinking. "Alcohol." He walked, creaking with stiff leather, off into the night in his stiffly creased stripy gabardine jodhpurs.

Alcohol was a factor whether it was or not. If the people taking the data have an axe to grind, they'll find their grindstone.

I bet porn turns out to be a big associated factor in the criminal psyche as researched in Utah.

Bogus, predetermined "research" of this kind will be cited all over the country. Your question will have no bearing, since it isn't what they want to do anyway. They want to help stamp out degeneracy. Which you write.

Cops.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Re: Re: Quick, hide your porn!

Passionate as I am in the defense of individual freedoms ... is this spokeperson actually arguing that thought and association have no relation to crime? It happens instantaneously in a vacuum, with no thought or associative connections related to it?

That seems to me fairly close to unsupportable.

Shanglan

Obviously, thought and association can be closely related to crime and, out of context, it seems like a silly statement to say otherwise. If I frequently think about committing crimes and I hang out with criminals, I am almost certain to be a criminal also. (One exception would be a police undercover operative) However, the ACLU member was referring to the documentation of thought and associations that are perfectly legal, even in Utah. According to that sheriff, the entire membership of Lit, including Black Shanglan and me, are potential criminals as are most of the adult population of the US.

Collecting documentation on gangs is another matter entirely. Gangs, as the word is usually understood, are essentially criminal organizations and those who are members or who aspire to membership can be presumed to have very strong criminal tendencies.

 

[cantdog]

Re: Re: Re: Quick, hide your porn!

Obviously, thought and association can be closely related to crime and, out of context, it seems like a silly statement to say otherwise. If I frequently think about committing crimes and I hang out with criminals, I am almost certain to be a criminal also. (One exception would be a police undercover operative) However, the ACLU member was referring to the documentation of thought and associations that are perfectly legal, even in Utah. According to that sheriff, the entire membership of Lit, including Black Shanglan and me, are potential criminals as are most of the adult population of the US.

Collecting documentation on gangs is another matter entirely. Gangs, as the word is usually understood, are essentially criminal organizations and those who are members or who aspire to membership can be presumed to have very strong criminal tendencies.

A good many policemen, too. It is the ideal job for a petty criminal.

 

[sweetnpetite]

99% of criminals own TVs!!!





I think it's patently obvious that TV owners are criminals.

Utah sheriff to track porn at crime scenes
ACLU has questions about validity

The Associated Press
Updated: 7:21 p.m. ET Oct. 17, 2004


LOGAN, Utah - A sheriff’s department in northern Utah is requiring deputies to begin documenting pornography found at crime scenes and during arrests.

Lt. Matt Bilodeau, spokesman for the Cache County Sheriff’s Department, said that although no connection between legal porn viewing and criminal behavior has ever been proven, police have seen a steady increase in porn associated with crimes.

He likened the new tracking system to the approach police use with gang members.

“(Gangs) have certain clothes they wear, markings on their houses, tattoos,” Bilodeau said. “Like gangs, people who use pornography have associated traits, and we’ll define them so we can link them to crimes and pornography.”

Dani Eyer, head of American Civil Liberties Union of Utah, compared the program to scouring a suspect’s bookshelf and trying to create a criminal profile from the things that person reads.

“It’s one thing to collect evidence to crimes, but it’s another thing to link thought and association to crime,” she said.

 

[sweetnpetite]

3 out of 4 criminals sleep in the nude. (Before they go to prison of course!)



It's time to start arresting people who don't own pajamas! The pervs!!!

They documented whether alcohol was a "factor" in car accidents, too. I was the ambulance man.

"Has he been drinking?" asked the state police man through his teeth. They wear those smokey the bear hats with the chin strap cinched really tight, and this guy's neck became three inches wider than his lantern jaw before it disappeared into his uniform.

"Yeah," I told him. He checked the box on his form. "But this is the passenger."

"Degenerates." He characterized, through his teeth, all young men of today who have been drinking. "Alcohol." He walked, creaking with stiff leather, off into the night in his stiffly creased stripy gabardine jodhpurs.

Alcohol was a factor whether it was or not. If the people taking the data have an axe to grind, they'll find their grindstone.

I bet porn turns out to be a big associated factor in the criminal psyche as researched in Utah.

Bogus, predetermined "research" of this kind will be cited all over the country. Your question will have no bearing, since it isn't what they want to do anyway. They want to help stamp out degeneracy. Which you write.

Cops.

 

[sweetnpetite]

100% of online preditors use computers......................











I think you know where this is going.





,

 

[English Lady]

Is it just me who thinks then that if Porn is going to count as evidence agianst those who have it then the innocent will suffer as much as the criminal? Don't many, many people have some form of Porn on their pooter/ in their home these days?

 

[The_old_man]

I don't have any PORN, just very imaginative literature and some poor art work.

 

[The_old_man]

I don't have any PORN, just very imaginative literature and some poor art work.

 

[cantdog]

Quite so. It's a matter of definition, isn't it?

And I

I define cops

And the government generally

As just the sort of chaps who ought to butt out of my business and leave me the fuck alone.

Cops eat shit from tin plates.

Cops suck farts from dead chickens.

Cops should turn around and go pester someone the fuck else, really,in my view.

 

[Guest]

IN UTAH

porn = crime
coffee = crime

"Well, Jim, he was breathing so he must have been involved in crime. Just look at his book case! Filled with Shakespeare...and one copy of playboy...it was a crime of passion!"

"John, we don't have a crime scene."

"We'll find one, never you mind."

 

[cheerful_deviant]

They documented whether alcohol was a "factor" in car accidents, too. I was the ambulance man.

"Has he been drinking?" asked the state police man through his teeth. They wear those smokey the bear hats with the chin strap cinched really tight, and this guy's neck became three inches wider than his lantern jaw before it disappeared into his uniform.

"Yeah," I told him. He checked the box on his form. "But this is the passenger."

"Degenerates." He characterized, through his teeth, all young men of today who have been drinking. "Alcohol." He walked, creaking with stiff leather, off into the night in his stiffly creased stripy gabardine jodhpurs.

Alcohol was a factor whether it was or not. If the people taking the data have an axe to grind, they'll find their grindstone.

I bet porn turns out to be a big associated factor in the criminal psyche as researched in Utah.

Bogus, predetermined "research" of this kind will be cited all over the country. Your question will have no bearing, since it isn't what they want to do anyway. They want to help stamp out degeneracy. Which you write.

Cops.

Just goes to show:

"Figures don't lie, but liars can figure."

 

[rgraham666]

How interesting. I'm reading Ever Since Darwin by Stephen Jay Gould.

Several of the essays cover attempts to use 'evolutionary theory' to predetermine if people are criminals. Just finished the essay on Lomboroso.

According to Lomboroso, primitive cultures and criminality are closely linked. Both are fond of tattoos, have separate and simple languages.

And the physical differences! Criminals and primitives have longer limbs than the civilized. Marked differences in skull structure as well.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sick.

But it's just the human tendency to try to come up with simple answers for problems that can hardly be defined, never mind solved. And such simple answers do relieve us of the burdens of thought and responsibility.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Lombroso! Fabulous! He's the poster boy for Bad Science. Isn't he fascinating in an eerie, creepy way?

Have you ever read Max Nordau's "Degneration"? He's like Lombroso only (if one can imagine) more insane and less scientificallly grounded. The book is an amazing study on just how easily one can classify everyone one disagrees with as degenerate and insane.

Even, for example, police officers.

Shanglan

 

[cantdog]

How interesting. I'm reading Ever Since Darwin by Stephen Jay Gould.

Several of the essays cover attempts to use 'evolutionary theory' to predetermine if people are criminals. Just finished the essay on Lomboroso.

According to Lomboroso, primitive cultures and criminality are closely linked. Both are fond of tattoos, have separate and simple languages.

And the physical differences! Criminals and primitives have longer limbs than the civilized. Marked differences in skull structure as well.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sick.

But it's just the human tendency to try to come up with simple answers for problems that can hardly be defined, never mind solved. And such simple answers do relieve us of the burdens of thought and responsibility.

He wrote The Mismeasure of Man, as well, didn't he?

So called savages or primitives, hunter-gatherer societies, have languages no more simple than anyone else's languages. All simple languages are artificially made ones, like trading pidgins, Plains Indian sign. Even artificial languages intended to be simple, like American Sign Language, Esperanto, or the pidgin which became elevated to a real language in New Guinea, quickly take on complexities and nuance once they are in use by real people for real purposes.

His other crap about "primitives" is, of course, equally garbled and stupid. A lot of very racist chiasse passed for scientific discourse in the 19th century, and a lot of it is still being shat out today.

Empire building societies will forever do this. They are given a predilection to racism simply by virtue of their empire building. The Iraqis, Palestinians, Arabians, and so on need us because they are primitive camel-jockeys and towel-headed heathens, for eample. It's how you can tell that we are giving, not taking, when we invade them and sponsor their slaughter and dispossession.

 

[Wholemanz]

NEVER!

Never will I hide my porn. I port therefore I am. Those who are ashamed of sex, ain't NO GOOD AT IT! Or don't have the body for it. Why allow those who are mundane to dictate the rules for the elite?

Nymphomaniacs unite! We can make a difference in the human condition.

 

[cantdog]

And unite again! And unite a different way, and then unite!

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

Divided We Stand,

United We Sprawl.


Except for some of the Advanced and Free Style Chapters of the KAMA SUTRA.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Are you aware that "united" and "untied" are anagrams?

 

[fifty5]

Re: Re: Quick, hide your porn!

Passionate as I am in the defense of individual freedoms ... is this spokeperson actually arguing that thought and association have no relation to crime? It happens instantaneously in a vacuum, with no thought or associative connections related to it?

That seems to me fairly close to unsupportable.

Shanglan

Unfortunately, it also illustrates a common logical fallacy: that if A is associated with B, then B is associated with A.

If that were so, then since all criminals are alive (a 100% association), it would follow that people who are alive are very highly likely to be criminals.

Sorry, but that really doesn't follow.

In the case of crime and thought-and-association, then, given a crime, yes indeed the thoughts and associations of the criminal are likely - indeed, almost certain - to be relevant. Trying to infer the reverse association is simply wrong (like the inferrence that living people, simply because they are alive, are likely to be criminal).

Taking Lit - and erotica/porn in general - as a case in point, most rapists probably read porn. That doesn't imply that people who read - or write - porn are likely to be rapists.

Or, if you don't accept that, what are you implying about everyone here?

Esoteric branches of Mathematics (such as mathematical logic) are relevant to real life!

Eff

 

[cantdog]

For some, they are a large part of real life.

For others, crime is a bigger part; or porn.

I don't think the point of the Utah survey is to determine anything whatsoever except that Porn is just so very very Bad, y'know.

It attracts the wrong element. Like the police force-- cops keep applying to work there.