Question...

[Jenny _S]

Has anyone ever seen on written anything where one of the characters holds a short, argumentitive conversation with the author?

If so, how was it done?

 

[CWatson]

Wow. Fourth wall.

...I'd actually refer you to a comic strip that's hosted online, but the site has been down for nearly a month. But Bob and George used to do a lot of fourth-wall breaking.

In a story though? I hope you don't expect your readers to take it seriously, 'cause they probably won't. As to technique... Maybe you could have font or size changes or something. Big ol' bold letters. I... am... OZ! Or something like that.

 

[gauchecritic]

Seems to me a conversation with the author would be in third person other wise is would come over as second person, therefor to the reader not the writer. Characters making reference to the author (or real world) would be much easier, unless you used the comic equivalent of "Authors voice - blah blah blah"

Thinking of comics I have seen quite a few examples of an artist becoming involved in the cartoon by drawing his own hand. In film or tv cartoons too.

I'll think on this.

Gauche

 

[Guest]

Not quite what you're interested in but I'd recommend to all Glenn Gould's interviews with himself. There's a brilliant excerpt in "32 Short Films about Glenn Gould', and the interviews are in print. I love the boy (as he will always be personified to me.)

piano lovin' Perdita

 

[jfinn]

That's a fairly common occurance in slash and other forms of fan/fic. There's even a generic name for an author placing themselves in a story. It's a MarySue.

Probably the best known porn writer who used this frequently was a guy named Mlke Hunt. I don't know if he ever posted here (he doesn't post anymore) but if not, you can probably find his stories pretty easily by googling.

Asimov did it too in a couple of stories. Murder at the ABA, is one. The main character is constantly bitching about "that bastard Asimov."

The way I've usually seen them done is in first person. Always they're handled very tongue in cheek.

Hope this helps,

Jayne

 

[Jenny _S]

Well.. Thank You

This is, in fact, a humerous parady. The entire piece is tongue in cheek. And there is a reason for the question and for the argument. I will have to study your responses and decide how to handle this.

I appreciate your input. Thanks so much

 

[Guest]

Re: Well.. Thank You

This is, in fact, a humerous parady.

Jenny, I cannot not do this. It's humorous (or humourous to the Brits) parody.

I looked at my keyboard and it doesn't seem likely these were typos. I bring this up as I presume you want your work read but this too startling misspelling would keep me away.

Best to you, Perdita

 

[CWatson]

Originally posted by jfinn
That's a fairly common occurance in slash and other forms of fan/fic. There's even a generic name for an author placing themselves in a story. It's a MarySue.

Oh boy, NOW we're getting complicated.

Jenny, there are two ways to include the author in your story. One way is to have the author be, well, the author. The voice of God, throwing stone tablets down on your hapless main character. The other way, as jfinn explained, is to make the author an actual character, someone your mains can talk to, interact with, and maybe even have sex with.

re Mary Sue: I've always been under the impression that a Mary Sue (or Marty Stu, in my case) was not just the author placing him/herself in the story, but placing him/herself as a ridiculously virtuous and idealized person. The story isn't so much a story as an extensive fantasy by said author. For obvious reasons, such stories are also generally laughed at.

And finally, Bob and George is back up. Examples of fourth-wall breaching: here and here. (God, I hope Dave Anez doesn't track his references, or he's gonna have some weird questions about why a porn site was referring his webcomic. )

 

[snooper]

Re: Re: Well.. Thank You

... It's humorous (or humourous to the Brits) ...

Er ... no. The noun is humour in Queen's English, but the adjective is humorous. My authority for that is (as ever) the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary.

 

[cahab]

Has anyone ever seen on written anything where one of the characters holds a short, argumentitive conversation with the author?

If so, how was it done?

Try 'Build Up Logically' By Howard Schoenfeld, In which one of the characters in the story kills the author and takes over the narrative, before being written out again by the original author. Or, probably easier to get hold of, 'Puckoon' by Spike Milligan, where the main character has an argument with the author about what a crappy pair of legs he's been written.

As for seeing anything, it's quite a common theatrical technique, called 'breaking the fourth wall'. 'Moonlighting' and in the UK ''The Young Ones' spring to mind as shows that did it a lot.

 

[Dirty Slut]

Clive Cussler did it several times...

In his later series of Dirk Pitt novels Clive Cussler injected himself into the stories as a bit character. It was quite unique as I remember, and the candor of it had me laughing afterwards.


DS

 

[Guest]

humbled

Thank you, Snooper. I'll stick to what I know. Crap, I thought for a sec of using my short OED but was as lazy as Earl (semi-private joke).

in humility, Perdita

 

[SexySoBeChick]

This reminds me of that cartoon where Daffy Duck is insulting the cartoonist for drawing him in ridiculous costumes and settings. Then the camera pans back at the end and we see that it was Bugs Bunny doing the drawing. I think he says something like, "Ain't I a stinka." Makes me laugh even now.

I've no idea how I'd write something like that, but the challenge intrigues me.

Best of luck!

 

[MathGirl]

Re: Clive Cussler did it several times...

Originally posted by Dirty Slut Cussler injected himself into the stories as a bit character. DS

Dear DS,
CC does that a lot, but that's just Mary Sue. The character doesn't interact with the writer as the writer.
MG
Ps. I sure wish someone would enlighten me as to why the term "Mary Sue" is used. I mean I go all like why not "Edith Marge?"

 

[gauchecritic]

Open-thighs-Sarah gives a funny rendition of '4th walling' in my 'How to...' Show or Tell.

Lots of other well known Lit. authors are also included 'showing or telling' in that How to.

Gauche

 

[Jenny _S]

Hmmm...

Open-thighs-Sarah gives a funny rendition of '4th walling' in my 'How to...' Show or Tell.

Lots of other well known Lit. authors are also included 'showing or telling' in that How to.

Gauche

Initially, I didn't think this was such a complex question. In fact, the story is a parody and (hopefully) will bring a smile to the face of the reader. There are a lot of things going on in this story and interaction with the author and the characters complaining is one.

I think it expedient to simply make the author a character in the story which makes the interaction much simpler.

Thanks all of you for your input. (And I still can't spell humorous)

 

[TheEarl]

I've always seen it done with the character speaking in normal text with speech marks and the author speaking in Bold or capitals with no speechmarks.

eg.

Loretta looked at the swamp in front of her and looked up at the sky in frustration. "You can't be serious."

- LOOK, ALL OF THE WRITING BOOKS SAY I SHOULD GIVE YOU SOME KIND OF CHALLENGE TO OVERCOME.

"But you'll ruin my shoes."

- OKAY THEN.

Loretta looked at the swamp in front of her and wondered how she was going to cross it now that she had no shoes.

The Earl

 

[Jenny _S]

Hmmm...

I've always seen it done with the character speaking in normal text with speech marks and the author speaking in Bold or capitals with no speechmarks.

eg.

Loretta looked at the swamp in front of her and looked up at the sky in frustration. "You can't be serious."

- LOOK, ALL OF THE WRITING BOOKS SAY I SHOULD GIVE YOU SOME KIND OF CHALLENGE TO OVERCOME.

"But you'll ruin my shoes."

- OKAY THEN.

Loretta looked at the swamp in front of her and wondered how she was going to cross it now that she had no shoes.

The Earl

It appears there is no set way of doing this. Thinking about it this afternoon I thought of another way of doing it without actually becoming a character in the story.

The character can call the author on the phone or even email him/her. That gets the dialoge in without the author becoming part of the action.

Any comments?

 

[Dirty Slut]

Whatever works.

DS

 

[gauchecritic]

What abou

Paul unzipped his meatlocker for her fascinated eyes, showing her what she was about to receive. She could only hope that she would be truly thankful.

As his undercrackers came down revealing a substantial banquet Charlene breathed "Oh.- My.- Third person omniscient."

"Yes?"


Gauche

 

[Jenny _S]

mmmm

What abou

Paul unzipped his meatlocker for her fascinated eyes, showing her what she was about to receive. She could only hope that she would be truly thankful.

As his undercrackers came down revealing a substantial banquet Charlene breathed "Oh.- My.- Third person omniscient."

"Yes?"


Gauche

Yummy, gauchecritic

Now you are trying to make me wet.

Love the meatlocker image. Gives me such a rush

 

[Uther_Pendragon]

Everything has been done, at least once. Whether it has
been done well, whether it should be repeated, those are
other questions.
I'd check out a play called: "... Characters in Search of
an Author." I'm freezing on the first word, a number. Ask
a librarian, though, or a lit profesor. For that matter
Googling on "In search of an author" should work.

 

[Jenny _S]

Hmmm

Everything has been done, at least once. Whether it has
been done well, whether it should be repeated, those are
other questions.
I'd check out a play called: "... Characters in Search of
an Author." I'm freezing on the first word, a number. Ask
a librarian, though, or a lit profesor. For that matter
Googling on "In search of an author" should work.

Ok, Kewl. Thanks... Doing that now.

 

[Guest]

Pirendello: Six Characters in Search of an Author

 

[Jenny _S]

Hmmm

Pirendello: Six Characters in Search of an Author

Thank you, perdita. I found it.