Question to editors...and writers

[LadyCibelle]

Hey guys,

What would you think of a thread naming names about "poor" editors.

I'm sure we've all had to deal with writers who came to us after having worked with other editors and complain that X/Y/Z editor did a poor job of editing.

I'm not talking about backstabbing here....but when you hear countless writers complain about the same editor, I guess it should mean there's something to look into.

I advise the writers coming to me complaining about an editor to report him/her to Lit's admin but it doesn't seem to do much good as those editors are still on the list and still editing.

So, I was thinking, maybe if WE the editors took care of it and created that list....well, maybe, just maybe, the "poor" editors would be separated from the good ones and they'd stop giving up "good" editors a bad name.

 

[RogueLurker]

Hey guys,

What would you think of a thread naming names about "poor" editors.

I'm sure we've all had to deal with writers who came to us after having worked with other editors and complain that X/Y/Z editor did a poor job of editing.

I'm not talking about backstabbing here....but when you hear countless writers complain about the same editor, I guess it should mean there's something to look into.

I advise the writers coming to me complaing about an editor to report him/her to Lit's admin but it doesn't seem to do much good as those editors are still on the list and still editing.

So, I was thinking, maybe if WE the editors took care of it and created that list....well, maybe, just maybe, the "poor" editors would be separated from the good ones and they'd stop giving up "good" editors a bad name.

I would approach this idea with extreme caution ... it could turn into a very messy situation very quickly. My pessimistic mind foresees false accusations, misunderstandings and pretty much all out flame wars.

I totally agree that some kind of vetting or reference system would be great ... but how to organize, maintain and have ultimate authority over it? Those are daunting questions for something that we do on a volunteer basis.

Perhaps I'm not completely out of my bad mood yet. These are just my initial thoughts ... I'm open to persuasion.

 

[LadyCibelle]

I forgot to add.....the ones who are criticized should, could, and WOULD get the opportunity to tell their side of the story.

As I said, I'm not talking about trashing and backstabbing anyone. Even I had writers complain about me because they didn't like when I told them their story was poorly written etc...

I'm talking about genuine complaints here, complaints like the one Techsan has in the other thread. Someone like that shouldn't be ALLOWED to edit.

 

[fieryjen]

I forgot to add.....the ones who are criticized should, could, and WOULD get the opportunity to tell their side of the story.

As I said, I'm not talking about trashing and backstabbing anyone. Even I had writers complain about me because they didn't like when I told them their story was poorly written etc...

I'm talking about genuine complaints here, complaints like the one Techsan has in the other thread. Someone like that shouldn't be ALLOWED to edit.

I agree with the general idea of having some sort of system to protect the "innocent", but I also agree with RL that it could turn messy. Is there any way we could instead have a "green list" or something like that?

Maybe there is a way we could give new editors a short story, sort of as a designated test piece, to edit and see what they make of it? I mean, with a few deliberate mistakes, not perfect - and just see what they make of it? This isn't to be nitpicking anything, if they don't catch a typo it wouldn't be a big deal, but that way we could make a list of editors we recommend - if they do a halfway decent job and don't flip out on a story/author like the one who shall remain nameless.

 

[LadyCibelle]

I agree with the general idea of having some sort of system to protect the "innocent", but I also agree with RL that it could turn messy. Is there any way we could instead have a "green list" or something like that?

Maybe there is a way we could give new editors a short story, sort of as a designated test piece, to edit and see what they make of it? I mean, with a few deliberate mistakes, not perfect - and just see what they make of it? This isn't to be nitpicking anything, if they don't catch a typo it wouldn't be a big deal, but that way we could make a list of editors we recommend - if they do a halfway decent job and don't flip out on a story/author like the one who shall remain nameless.

Hey Jen,

You know what? I love you!!!!

You and Rogue have the perfect idea. A green list would be much more effective than a black one.

Will the writers want to do it though? That's another question.

 

[FallingToFly]

Just my opinion, don't shoot me, hmm?

Like RL, I'm cautious by nature. I mentioned before that I have a seperate forum from Literotica, that I run, which offers editing and beta-reading service and support.

I've learned, with that, to be very cautious about saying anything AGAINST anyone. The recent situation was an exception to a rule for me, mainly because I could actually see the verification from that person's words and actions.

I think on one hand, it's a good idea to have maybe a tally system? Anonymously, and regularly updated ratings for the editors, 1-5 scale, much like the story ratings? It would allow a writer to see at a glance what other writers think of an editor. It would require the Mods to do it, but...

 

[fieryjen]

Hey Jen,

You know what? I love you!!!!

You and Rogue have the perfect idea. A green list would be much more effective than a black one.

Will the writers want to do it though? That's another question.

What do you mean by that? I think we can create one story to send to whoever wants to have a try at editing it. Never to be published, just to be judged. That way, we would have the same difficulty for everyone.

The writers are free to use the editors on the green list or not - but I don't know why they wouldn't want to, considering. We shouldn't make it hard to get on that list either, it's not like we're a secret club with jackets and a handshake here. (or are we and I missed it? Where's that red pen of mine anyway? )
PS: Love you right back

 

[fieryjen]

Like RL, I'm cautious by nature. I mentioned before that I have a seperate forum from Literotica, that I run, which offers editing and beta-reading service and support.

I've learned, with that, to be very cautious about saying anything AGAINST anyone. The recent situation was an exception to a rule for me, mainly because I could actually see the verification from that person's words and actions.

I think on one hand, it's a good idea to have maybe a tally system? Anonymously, and regularly updated ratings for the editors, 1-5 scale, much like the story ratings? It would allow a writer to see at a glance what other writers think of an editor. It would require the Mods to do it, but...

The problem I see with that is that people might be offended at being rated lower than others, and an editor-war may ensue. People would definitely be accused of favoritism. And I don't think it's even needed.

Also, all the business would suddenly go to the people rated a five, and none to the others. I think it's more about a writer finding the perfect editor for themselves - some may not like it that an editor will try and point out two-dimensional characters, others are looking for exactly that. Those two ratings of the same editor may be quite different.

 

[LadyCibelle]

Like RL, I'm cautious by nature. I mentioned before that I have a seperate forum from Literotica, that I run, which offers editing and beta-reading service and support.

I've learned, with that, to be very cautious about saying anything AGAINST anyone. The recent situation was an exception to a rule for me, mainly because I could actually see the verification from that person's words and actions.

I think on one hand, it's a good idea to have maybe a tally system? Anonymously, and regularly updated ratings for the editors, 1-5 scale, much like the story ratings? It would allow a writer to see at a glance what other writers think of an editor. It would require the Mods to do it, but...

If by Mods you mean Lit's admin, forget it. The quality of editing done by the VE seem to be at the bottom of their list of priorities.

 

[RogueLurker]

What do you mean by that? I think we can create one story to send to whoever wants to have a try at editing it. Never to be published, just to be judged. That way, we would have the same difficulty for everyone.

The writers are free to use the editors on the green list or not - but I don't know why they wouldn't want to, considering. We shouldn't make it hard to get on that list either, it's not like we're a secret club with jackets and a handshake here. (or are we and I missed it? Where's that red pen of mine anyway? )
PS: Love you right back

Depends on what kind of editing an author is looking for. Basic spelling, grammar and punctuation is pretty easy to judge. But sometimes editing deals with flow, plot, characterization ... the overall piece. That's pretty subjective. And it depends on what the author is looking for in an editor ... and who they can work with (personalities, priorities, preferences, etc ).

I think going with references either by authors who have worked with an editor or a probationary period if someone is new to editing.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that if you aren't on the list, you can't edit. It will just make things easier for authors if they are tired of fishing
expedtions.

Hmmmm ... no for me?

 

[LadyCibelle]

What do you mean by that? I think we can create one story to send to whoever wants to have a try at editing it. Never to be published, just to be judged. That way, we would have the same difficulty for everyone.

The writers are free to use the editors on the green list or not - but I don't know why they wouldn't want to, considering. We shouldn't make it hard to get on that list either,

I agree with you...BUT...how many writers would do it? Not that many....look how often the people on the AH ask for an editor instead of asking for a fellow writer to beta read/edit for them.

it's not like we're a secret club with jackets and a handshake here.

Didn't you get the rule book yet?

 

[fieryjen]

If by Mods you mean Lit's admin, forget it. The quality of editing done by the VE seem to be at the bottom of their list of priorities.

From what I've seen, I agree with that assessment. All we can really do is create a list and leave it free for editors to try and get on the list, and for writers to use the list. It may be a failure, but it may also be a fairly successful project and we should try it, I think. I'm pretty positive that L&M wil change any part of the VE system.

 

[LadyCibelle]

Just for you Rogue

 

[fieryjen]

Depends on what kind of editing an author is looking for. Basic spelling, grammar and punctuation is pretty easy to judge. But sometimes editing deals with flow, plot, characterization ... the overall piece. That's pretty subjective. And it depends on what the author is looking for in an editor ... and who they can work with (personalities, priorities, preferences, etc ).

I think going with references either by authors who have worked with an editor or a probationary period if someone is new to editing.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that if you aren't on the list, you can't edit. It will just make things easier for authors if they are tired of fishing
expedtions.

Hmmmm ... no for me?

That's a good point too. That's why I think such a list should be no general quality control, just to make sure certain people don't get on there.

I'm not sure if that will be effective either.

And of course there's one for you as well.



Well, that was two. Hope you don't mind abundance.

 

[LadyCibelle]

From what I've seen, I agree with that assessment. All we can really do is create a list and leave it free for editors to try and get on the list, and for writers to use the list. It may be a failure, but it may also be a fairly successful project and we should try it, I think. I'm pretty positive that L&M wil change any part of the VE system.

And how should that list be created? Do we ask writers to come here on the EF and recommend the editor they worked with? Then, me the Mod, I put that editor's name on list with the number of writers who have recommended him/her?

 

[RogueLurker]

Thank you
for LadyC
for fieryjen
for fallingtofly
<firm handshake> for CopyCarver (if he ever shows up in this thread)

 

[CopyCarver]

I vote for the green list as well.

As always, the devil will be in the details. What yardstick gets used, and how much weight is given to widely divergent opinions? (No answer to my own questions, unfortunately.)

Whether or not writers would go for it is a question mark. My guess is that some would and some wouldn't, but we'd be giving them the option at least.

 

[LadyCibelle]

I vote for the green list as well.

As always, the devil will be in the details. What yardstick gets used, and how much weight is given to widely divergent opinions? (No answer to my own questions, unfortunately.)

Whether or not writers would go for it is a question mark. My guess is that some would and some wouldn't, but we'd be giving them the option at least.

Okay, so, so far it's unanimous....kinda green list it'll be. Forget the poll at the beginning of the thread and lets put our heads together to get the logistic of it.

I'll read you in an hour...dinner is ready here

 

[RogueLurker]

And how should that list be created? Do we ask writers to come here on the EF and recommend the editor they worked with? Then, me the Mod, I put that editor's name on list with the number of writers who have recommended him/her?

I disagree ... if the editor wants to be on the list, it will be up to them to get the authors to provide the reference (permission for you or the designated checker to contact or a PM/Email from the author extolling their virtues). Perhaps we could have set of standard questions for the author (turnaround time, keeps promises, provides artistic as well as technical editing, open to criticism, likes to criticize ... stuff like that). Some editors may not want to be on the green list ... if they have enough work to keep the occupied or like to screen their own authors ... so having authors nominate editors isn't really fair.

 

[fieryjen]

Okay, so, so far it's unanimous....kinda green list it'll be. Forget the poll at the beginning of the thread and lets put our heads together to get the logistic of it.

I'll read you in an hour...dinner is ready here

Here too, but since I'm all alone, I'm eating by the computer
What yummy food are you ingesting?

Edit:

Damnit, didn't mean to jack and kill the thread.


Greenlist, yes... so I gather we're going with the author recommendation idea? Thing is, it's always easy to create an alt if you're really intent on getting on that list.

 

[LadyCibelle]

Here too, but since I'm all alone, I'm eating by the computer
What yummy food are you ingesting?

Edit:

Damnit, didn't mean to jack and kill the thread.


Greenlist, yes... so I gather we're going with the author recommendation idea? Thing is, it's always easy to create an alt if you're really intent on getting on that list.

It was chicken strips, salad and sparkly wine to celebrate my win.

 

[LadyCibelle]

Greenlist, yes... so I gather we're going with the author recommendation idea? Thing is, it's always easy to create an alt if you're really intent on getting on that list.

Yeah I agree with that....that's why we'll need to find a way to make sure the editor is recommended by writers and not by themselves

 

[fieryjen]

It was chicken strips, salad and sparkly wine to celebrate my win.

Ooh, I love sparkly wine.

Congraulations by the way.

I had salmon with baked tomatoes and green beans and aioli. It's pretty damn good.

 

[RogueLurker]

Yeah I agree with that....that's why we'll need to find a way to make sure the editor is recommended by writers and not by themselves

Well how about ... two known/Lit published authors. We can check whether they have stories posted or not.

We could also reserve the right to pull a name from the list if there are complaints/credibility issues.

 

[fieryjen]

Well how about ... two known/Lit published authors. We can check whether they have stories posted or not.

We could also reserve the right to pull a name from the list if there are complaints/credibility issues.

That's why I suggested a "test run" story, but I can see how that may be problematic. Yours sounds good.