Question: The amount of your stories vs. how many followers

[Nexte100]

In my opinion -- just my opinion -- a lot of Literotica authors would be happier if they stopped focusing on scores and focused more on getting views and favorites.

Wow, this post resonated with me so much I felt compelled to respond. I'm not very experienced here compared to many. Have just under 700 followers and maybe 20 stories published (all parts of 2 series), and time was, each time I published a new story I would refresh my score fanatically to find out what folks thought of it. For a long time I was very satisfied at having many stories in the 4.8X range, and even a few in the category hall of fame, but over time, these tanked, pulling many of my submissions down (and never up) a full tenth of a point or more. This got to be disheartening, and I would quit writing because I felt folks didn't appreciate what I had to offer. In retrospect, the scores were still quite good, and I found more satisfaction in not focusing on them as much.

I'm back after a short hiatus because I feel the desire to write again, and though my readership is still a huge part of why I post my lewd thoughts online for the world to see, I strive far more for favorites, comments, and even emails than I do scores. There's just too much involved in those numbers - anchoring, one-bombs, mistakes made with smartphones while scrolling (I've even done this, and it horrified me), and more, that makes the whole numeric rating system crap.

But ultimately, like SimonDoom said, I do want people to read my work. I wouldn't post anything online if I didn't. I would argue that there likely isn't a single writer that submits work to Lit that truly feels completely ambivalent about whether people appreciate their work. All of us want to be recognized in some way, even if it's not to the extent of min/maxing readership by writing what you don't enjoy. I may not go to such lengths, but I certainly wouldn't begrudge someone for doing so.

Just my 2c

 

[KeithD]

In my opinion, writers here would be happier if they just concentrated on writing and posting their next story.

 

[gordo12]

In my opinion, writers here would be happier if they just concentrated on writing and posting their next story.

Well, Keith, some of us here are social creatures, taking time out like I did yesterday to make a few posts while I was BUSY writing.

I have no desire to be a drone or worker bee.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think the big reason I have a steady inflow of followers is that I have two highly-rated stories with very click-bait-y titles. They pull in new readers, and a lot of those readers follow me.

I agree that titles and taglines matter a lot. You've got to grab the reader's attention. Why should a reader click on your story rather than all the others on the new story list?

Visibiliity is crucial, too. Your European Vacation story is number 9 on the all time incest story list. That's huge. I'm sure people consult that list all the time for stories.

My story Late Night appears on a lot of "Similar Story" lists for popular mom-son incest stories, and I'm convinced that's why it still gets a lot of views and why I pick up followers even when I'm not publishing.

It would be interesting if there was a way to find out how many "similar stories" lists one's story appears on. I think it would be telling.

 

[KeithD]

Well, Keith, some of us here are social creatures, taking time out like I did yesterday to make a few posts while I was BUSY writing.

I have no desire to be a drone or worker bee.

You're suggesting I don't take time off to post to the discussion board? What I don't do a lot of is hang all my hopes and dreams on very mushy statistics on an open story site and to husband a handful of stories as if they were my precious babies. I'm not a hobby writer or that needy or that insecure.

 

[8letters]

I agree that titles and taglines matter a lot. You've got to grab the reader's attention. Why should a reader click on your story rather than all the others on the new story list?

Visibiliity is crucial, too. Your European Vacation story is number 9 on the all time incest story list. That's huge. I'm sure people consult that list all the time for stories.

My story Late Night appears on a lot of "Similar Story" lists for popular mom-son incest stories, and I'm convinced that's why it still gets a lot of views and why I pick up followers even when I'm not publishing.

It would be interesting if there was a way to find out how many "similar stories" lists one's story appears on. I think it would be telling.

Here's my stories by the number of views they've gotten from 1/25 to 4/19. The line is the name - rating - views - favorites

My European Summer Vacation (With+) - 4.84 - 19,536 - 21
The version of "My European Summer Vacation" that has been floating around in the I/T HoF. Very low number of favorites relative to its rating and views

My Lingerie-Loving Sister Moves In - 4.81 - 19,157 - 63
My most click-bait-ish title. I've gotten numerous comments on it where the person said, "I don't read I/T, but I saw the title and thought 'Why not?'"

Carpooling With My Sister - 4.74 - 14,262 - 45
I'm really surprised that this one got so many views. Not that great of a title, not that great of a rating. It's my latest story, but I published it months ago (9/27/20)

My European Summer Vacation - 4.83 - 10,566 - 7
The version of "My European Summer Vacation" that won a contest. Very low number of favorites relative to its rating and views

My Sister Set Me Up on a Blind Date - 4.80 - 9,317 - 52
My other click-bait-ish title

A Week at the Lake with My Sister Ch. 01 - 4.61 - 6,129 - 14
I'm surprised this one got so many views, given that it's a chapter instead of a stand-alone story and it's rating is low relative to my other stories

Comforting My Little Sister - 4.70 - 5,754 - 22
Average title, average rating, reasonable number of views given the title and rating

My Crocheting Little Sister - 4.80 - 4,864 - 24
I'm disappointed this story got so low number of views relative to its rating. I'm guessing that it's the "My XXXX Sister" format of the title

Sister Has a Plan - 4.69 - 4,180 - 13
Average title, average rating, reasonable number of views given the title and rating

Cruise Doubledate With My Sister - 4.72 - 3,850 - 15
Average title, average rating, reasonable number of views given the title and rating

My Cookie-Baking Sister - 4.76 - 3,681 - 20
Another "My XXXX Sister" story with relatively low views for its rating

Cycling Weekends with Sis - 4.62 - 3,533 - 8
Average title, average rating, reasonable number of views given the title and rating

The Prodigal Sister - 4.36 - 3,371 - 3
I was shocked that this story got this many views. One of my lowest rated I/T stories

My Day as a Pool Boy - 4.72 - 3,162 - 5
I was surprised how low the number of views was for this story. Bad title?

A Week at the Lake with My Sister Ch. 05 - 4.65 - 2,624 - 16
A Week at the Lake with My Sister Ch. 02 - 4.62 - 2,568 - 11
A Week at the Lake with My Sister Ch. 03 - 4.69 - 2,319 - 12
A Week at the Lake with My Sister Ch. 04 - 4.43 - 2,198 - 10
The rest of the chapters of the series have a similar number of views, much lower than the first chapter. I'm not surprised

Heather and Michael Ch. 01 - 4.51 - 2,109 - 5
Heather and Michael Ch. 02 - 4.69 - 1,589 - 4
My first story, low rating, a series, and a bad title. I'm not surprised it's down here

My Cousin Shows Me Around Campus - 4.68 - 1,495 - 4
A cousin story just doesn't get a lot of I/T views despite a good rating

Godiva for My Sister - 4.29 - 1,314 - 1
My 750-word story. Low rating. So not surprised it's down here

Heather and Michael Ch. 03 - 4.56 - 1,212 - 1
This was the first chapter of a sequel to "H&M". Not surprised it's next to last

Getting Ready To Close The Deal - 3.42 - 841 - 0
My bad LW story. I'm actually happy it's last on the list

 

[gordo12]

You're suggesting I don't take time off to post to the discussion board? What I don't do a lot of is hang all my hopes and dreams on very mushy statistics on an open story site and to husband a handful of stories as if they were my precious babies. I'm not a hobby writer or that needy or that insecure.

They are my babies, and I'm damn proud of them. More than eager to share them, or I wouldn't be here. Every single one of them has helped me learn and progress.

And those "Mushy Statistics" are fucking gold. You should know that

 

[KeithD]

And those "Mushy Statistics" are fucking gold. You should know that

Royalties are fucking gold. What you get here doesn't come close to that. You can make it into feel-good pabulum, if you like. Your opinion doesn't negate mine.

My opinion on the stat relationship queried on this string is that it's meaningless because of how many variable exist and was only brought up originally (before this thread) to back bite.

 

[SimonDoom]

In my opinion, writers here would be happier if they just concentrated on writing and posting their next story.

I don't think you can generalize to that degree.

I like writing, but I'm also a stat geek. I enjoy stats and data for their own sake. I memorize sports stats, for example. They're interesting to me. Maybe I'm weird, but that's me. I wouldn't be happier if I stopped paying attention to this stuff.

But I'm also not somebody who complains a lot about the Site or the voting process. It is what it is, and I can't control it, and that's fine with me.

Some people seem to get very agitated about the voting process and voting results at Literotica, to a degree I do not understand, and, assuming (perhaps wrongly) that people would be more satisfied looking for ways not to get agitated, I think there are ways to refocus one's attention at this Site that will cause less agitation. But the formula isn't going to be the same for everyone.

My attitude is, find the things in publishing Literotica stories you like and enjoy, and focus on those, and try to ignore the other stuff, because you can't control it.

 

[KeithD]

You seem to both agree with me and generalize as much as I have. And what is all this blather writers devote to playing with statistics here other than trying to generalize willy-nilly numbers into nifty participation trophies?

 

[gordo12]

Royalties are fucking gold. What you get here doesn't come close to that. You can make it into feel-good pabulum, if you like. Your opinion doesn't negate mine.

Not everyone here is after royalties. For some, the approval of the readers is all they want. For others, it's the start of a journey that hopefully leads to royalties. They're entitled to learn, ask questions and discuss without being told they're wasting time.

My opinion on the stat relationship queried on this string is that it's meaningless because of how many variable exist and was only brought up originally (before this thread) to back bite.

That shows your true lack of understanding stats. The relationship queried originally IS relevant. The variables that you put so much weight on are only a small part of the picture and are meaningless in the larger picture. As for backbiting, I have no clue what you mean by that.

No, the real problem here is your arrogance, constantly popping into discussion threads and telling us all what a bunch of morons we are for wasting our time.

 

[gordo12]

You seem to both agree with me and generalize as much as I have. And what is all this blather writers devote to playing with statistics here other than trying to generalize willy-nilly numbers into nifty participation trophies?

I don't agree with you in the slightest and that quote is a perfect example of the arrogant "you're idiots" kind of post.

 

[KeithD]

I don't agree with you in the slightest and this post is a perfect example of the arrogant "you're idiots" kind of post.

So, anyone else expressing an opinion on this gets labeled as arrogant by you, I guess. Never said any of you were idiots. That's not quite the same thing as needy, insecure, and grasping at straws.

This trying to make something out of not much just gets tiresome. Are you here to write and share stories or just to try to buck yourself up with mushy games of "What's it all about, Alfie?" and how can it be made to mean that I write oh so well?

Don't bother to answer. I'm just expressing my opinion on something that constantly gets tedious here. And I've paid my dues to express my opinion here just as much as you have.

 

[gordo12]

I'm just expressing my opinion on something that constantly gets tedious here.

Yes, please, remind us all once again of how much above the rabble you tower.

 

[Payne_Hall]

I don't think you can generalize to that degree.

I like writing, but I'm also a stat geek. I enjoy stats and data for their own sake. I memorize sports stats, for example. They're interesting to me. Maybe I'm weird, but that's me. I wouldn't be happier if I stopped paying attention to this stuff.

What? A DM who likes stats? Surely not.

Granted, reader stats does seem to pale in comparison to Fantasy Football League and Baseball stats

 

[FifthEstate]

I don't agree with you in the slightest and that quote is a perfect example of the arrogant "you're idiots" kind of post.

Gordo12,
Thanks for saying what others have thought. I’m not even a power user here on the forum, yet it seems that whenever I click on a thread, I see an arrogant post from Keith D. about something. At first I thought it was just me, but clearly that’s not the case! For someone who seems to constantly undervalue Literotica and its “amateur” authors compared to your “prowess” on for sale platforms, Keith D. you sure spend an awful lot of time here. Don’t you have any “friends” on Amazon you can go commiserate with?

 

[gordo12]

Gordo12,
Thanks for saying what others have thought. I’m not even a power user here on the forum, yet it seems that whenever I click on a thread, I see an arrogant post from Keith D. about something. At first I thought it was just me, but clearly that’s not the case! For someone who seems to constantly undervalue Literotica and its “amateur” authors compared to your “prowess” on for sale platforms, Keith D. you sure spend an awful lot of time here. Don’t you have any “friends” on Amazon you can go commiserate with?

The truth is Keith is a decent guy most of the time. For some reason, he feels compelled to try to short circuit conversations because the issue has been talked about before. I get that. Sometimes, when you've been around for a long time, it gets frustrating seeing the same questions over and over.

This board is constantly evolving and the people today aren't necessarily the people of yesterday. The industry evolves too; today's solution may not be yesterdays. Writing is a solitary pursuit, and talking here, even if it's been talked about a dozen times before, is a social outlet for a lot of us. It doesn't have to be world-shaking. Or spiffy new!

The hilarious part? I have a join date here in 2011. I was on Literotica as a reader since around 2000. I used to haunt the author's board reading the posts. My reason for joining? I got so pissed off at Keith's posts in his previous ID that I registered and went after him then. For precisely the same reasons. He doesn't appear to have learned much in 10 years.

Keith: I'll say it again. You're a decent guy most of the time. If you run into threads that annoy you for whatever reason. Avoid them. Don't contribute. Keep your opinion about our collective stupidity to yourself.

Simple advice that I use myself.

I apologize to the originator of this thread and the rest of the posters for the hijack. Perhaps we can get back to talking about our mushy statistics!

 

[LAHomedog]

My biggest piece of advice:
Give your stories titles that make people want to click on them. If they don't click on them, they won't read them. And if they don't read them, then they aren't going to favorite you.

I graphed my number of followers by week since 10/14/19, and it's a close to a steady slope of 10-11 followers a week. When I published the one story I published in that time, I got 63 followers the week it was published, ~20 a week for the next six weeks, and then back down to 10-11 followers a week.

I think the big reason I have a steady inflow of followers is that I have two highly-rated stories with very click-bait-y titles. They pull in new readers, and a lot of those readers follow me.

I think the word in your story titles that generates clicks and followers is "sister" That is a powerful and sexually enticing word in the category you like to write in.

 

[8letters]

The truth is Keith is a decent guy most of the time. For some reason, he feels compelled to try to short circuit conversations because the issue has been talked about before. I get that. Sometimes, when you've been around for a long time, it gets frustrating seeing the same questions over and over.

This board is constantly evolving and the people today aren't necessarily the people of yesterday. The industry evolves too; today's solution may not be yesterdays. Writing is a solitary pursuit, and talking here, even if it's been talked about a dozen times before, is a social outlet for a lot of us. It doesn't have to be world-shaking. Or spiffy new!

The hilarious part? I have a join date here in 2011. I was on Literotica as a reader since around 2000. I used to haunt the author's board reading the posts. My reason for joining? I got so pissed off at Keith's posts in his previous ID that I registered and went after him then. For precisely the same reasons. He doesn't appear to have learned much in 10 years.

Keith: I'll say it again. You're a decent guy most of the time. If you run into threads that annoy you for whatever reason. Avoid them. Don't contribute. Keep your opinion about our collective stupidity to yourself.

Simple advice that I use myself.

I apologize to the originator of this thread and the rest of the posters for the hijack. Perhaps we can get back to talking about our mushy statistics!

The facts about Keith as far as I can tell:
1. He's very knowledgeable about what is the acceptable way to write professionally. Chicago Manual of Style and all that
2. He's an mind-boggling prolific writer, with 999 stories under the sr71plt account, another 278 stories under the KeithD account, and 22 stories collaborating with sabb
3. He's a published author with over 150 stories for sale on Amazon either under "Dirk Hessian" or "habu"
4. By Literotica standards, he was a poor writer for years and years. I've only read a couple of his stories, and the writing technically was great but the story telling was awful. Keith used the sr71plt account from 2006 to basically the end of 2017. The average rating for a stand-alone story on that account is 4.32. Keith used the KeithD account since 2018, with some overlap prior to that with the sr71plt account. The average rating for a stand-alone story on the KeithD account is 4.51. I did an statistical analysis of stand-alone stories back in 2018 and the average Gay Male story had a rating then of 4.16.

From what I have seen in Keith's posts, Keith has always been against worrying about rating, comments, etc. And Keith is scornful of people who do worry about rating, comments, etc.

So if you want to churn out a lot of good-but-not great stories, listen to Keith. If you don't, don't.

Edit: I removed He always advocated for his "write a story one day, review and publish it the next" style. Which fits someone who churns out a lot of mediocre stories. from the post. Keith posted that that's an inaccurate statement. I'm sure I had read Keith posting something like this, but I can't lay hands on such a post, and I'm not going to take the time to search for one.

Edit: I called Keith's stories "Mediocre" and I shouldn't have. I misremembered the average rating of a one-page stand-alone story, so I was overly negative. I've put in that 4.16 is a fair value to compare to and I've changed my description of Keith's stories from "mediocre" to "good-but-not-great"

 

[KeithD]

4. By Literotica standards, he was a poor writer for years and years. I've only read a couple of his stories, and the writing technically was great but the story telling was awful. Keith used the sr71plt account from 2006 to basically the end of 2017. The average rating for a stand-alone story on that account is 4.32. Keith used the KeithD account since 2018, with some overlap prior to that with the sr71plt account. The average rating for a stand-alone story on the KeithD account is 4.51

One thing I do not do on the discussion board is attack the writing of others. I consider that the apex of assholery. I also don't personally attack others while, as this thread shows, others have no reservation about personally attacking me. I've even got a ten-years-determined stalker hanging off me and running a PM hate campaign (which no doubt you're part of).

I am not going to descend to your level of attack. And, don't worry, I won't read (or pretend) to read any of your stories, which I'm sure are all wonderful, as a basis for attacking your writing nor will I stop submitting stories to the site.

 

[XerXesXu]

Keith used the sr71plt account from 2006 to basically the end of 2017. The average rating for a stand-alone story on that account is 4.32. Keith used the KeithD account since 2018, with some overlap prior to that with the sr71plt account. The average rating for a stand-alone story on the KeithD account is 4.51

He always advocated for his "write a story one day, review and publish it the next" style. Which fits someone who churns out a lot of mediocre stories. And Keith is scornful of people who do worry about rating, comments, etc.

So if you want to churn out a lot of mediocre stories, listen to Keith. If you don't, don't.

I'm surprised that you think average ratings of 4.32 and 4.51 are mediocre. I know some people consistently rate above 4.5, but what's your threshold for 'not mediocre'.

 

[KeithD]

He always advocated for his "write a story one day, review and publish it the next" style. .

This, incidentally, which I've just seen, is a nasty lie. I've constantly noted that most of my stories posted here are done so as a last stop some time after they have been through a publisher's process and offered in the marketplace. (e.g., the series posting now is from the book cover currently used as my avatar--a publisher book from four years ago.) Only contest ones are making a first stop here--after being professionally edited.

You obviously are just part of cabal here to promote a lowest common denominator discussion board at your level. I'm not insecure about my writing--good luck with joining with your friends in knocking me off the Web site by attacking the quality of my stories.

On plot lines, perhaps I should take a look at how wide ranging your plots, settings, and time periods are in your twenty-four entry published file here.

 

[TadOverdon]

I'll just note that as writers each of us are probably capable, with just three or four words, of inventing someone with a bigger dick than anyone here present. Awright?

 

[Payne_Hall]

I'll just note that as writers each of us are probably capable, with just three or four words, of inventing someone with a bigger dick than anyone here present. Awright?

It could be a Tech N9ne Strangeland type of collabo involving size queens.

Now I just want to write a Tech N9ne themed story. The first story is titled “Strange Music Box”.

 

[gordo12]

I've even got a ten-years-determined stalker hanging off me and running a PM hate campaign (which no doubt you're part of).

Thanks for the laugh of the day. A ten-year-old stalker running a pm hate campaign. LOL

One thing I can assure you, Keith, in case you missed it, I'm upfront and in your face. As I've been previously.

10 years shows how long your behaviour has been out to lunch. And we both know it's longer than that.

If you're getting hate mail...perhaps a look in the mirror might be in order.