Question on pronouns for GM story

[LaRascasse]

When writing heterosexual sex, it's easy because you have a "he" and a "she". So "his hands were on her breast" or "she fondled his cock" works fine.

What do you do to the pronouns when writing gay sex?

"His hands grasped his ass" makes no sense because the 2 "his"es refer to different people. Moreover, a few lines in, anyone would get confused whose hands and whose ass I'm talking about.

Can anyone offer some advice here? Much appreciated

 

[PennLady]

Use their names. That's probably easiest -- it's what I do in same-sex conversations scenes (haven't done any same-sex sex scenes). I've found it's the easiest way to keep things on track. From time to time, you could say something like "Mike reached for his lover..."

The other thing you could do, and I'd do it sparingly if at all, would be to say something like, "He grabbed the [descritpion] guy's ... "

 

[sr71plt]

I use names and/or short identifiers: blond/redhead; older/younger; smaller/bruiser.

You're right, it's more difficult than with hetero stories. But only if you write in the third person. I write mainly in the first, so it become I/he.

 

[PennLady]

Yeah, that. I rarely write in first person, so I didn't think of that. That would make things easier in that respect.

 

[Verdad]

As has been said, one way around it is to write in first person.

If you're writing in third person, get used to using names more than you would in a het story. It might feel a bit odd in the beginning, but when you get the hang of it, you'll see names become as unobtrusive as pronouns.

That doesn't mean you'll use the name every time you refer to a character, of course, and not even every time the action moves from one character to the other. The name is necessary only where it would be otherwise unclear which one of the two you're referring to.

The emotional focus on one or the other should allow you to make these switches with relative ease. If you find yourself ping-ponging in a tedious manner between X and Y, the name/pronoun is likely not the only problem. The more likely issue is that you've not decided on what and whom to focus.

Descriptive ways of referring to someone as "his lover" or "the blond" or some such can come in very handy, too, but use them with caution. Be mindful of the way the POV character would refer to his lover. If it's 'a blond guy' he's just met, sure. If they're on the sex scene 35-b and share a flat, then obviously not.

 

[MatthewVett]

If only we spoke Esperanto, we wouldn't have this problem...

But if you're going to insist on English, I don't think it'd be that confusing. I tend to write "his own" for reflexive actions, anyway, so to me, "He grabbed his ass" is obviously distinct from "He grabbed his own ass." If you use "own" regularly, it might help with ambiguity.

 

[LaRascasse]

The story is set in first person, but right now my narrator is watching two guys going at it. When he has sex, I can switch to I/he mode which will be easier.

Later, I plan to have him watch more than two guys going at it. That is going to be a nightmare.

I'm writing like ".... Dustin held Dwayne's face in his hands and kissed him passionately. His hands crept down to his lover's crotch."

I'm banking on the fact that the reader will take the first "His" in the second sentence as Dustin since he is part of the subject in the previous sentence. Is that okay? So, I can just put a name in alternate sentences, and the reader reads the next sentence as having the same person as the subject.

 

[PennLady]

I think Verdad is on to something with the issue of focus. Even with multiple people, if your narrator is watching, he can only focus on so much at one time. So he could watch Guy A and Guy B for a while, then his attention could be caught by Guy C and Guy D.

Plus, if it's going to be a "nightmare," consider whether you shouldn't change things up a bit.

I think in your example, since the sentences follow one another, it's easy enough to figure the first "His" is Dwayne, etc. You might want to give "Dustin" another name that doesn't start with D -- it might help the reader keep things clearer.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm writing like ".... Dustin held Dwayne's face in his hands and kissed him passionately. His hands crept down to his lover's crotch."

I'm banking on the fact that the reader will take the first "His" in the second sentence as Dustin since he is part of the subject in the previous sentence. Is that okay? So, I can just put a name in alternate sentences, and the reader reads the next sentence as having the same person as the subject.

I wouldn't bank on that. Dustin had both of his hands engaged in that first sentence and the most recent antecedent for the first "his" in the second sentence is Dwayne, not Dustin. To be explicit (and to try to preserve your word choices) the second sentence would need to read: "He permitted his hands to creep down to Dwayne's crotch."

So, yes, this is difficult.

Another problem with this is both names starting with a "D" and being the same length. Unfortunately, that can confuse a reader. You don't really read full names in a story--you just catch the first letter and the general length of the name. (This is one reason its so easy to misspell your own characters' names and have that go right through to print with no one else catching it either.)

 

[PennLady]

I wouldn't bank on that. Dustin had both of his hands engaged in that first sentence and the most recent antecedent for the first "his" in the second sentence is Dwayne, not Dustin. To be explicit (and to try to preserve your word choices) the second sentence would need to read: "He permitted his hands to creep down to Dwayne's crotch."

I prove this point. I had Dustin and Dwayne's names switched in my head for whatever reason and so had Dwayne first in the "His" sentence. Part of that was the similar "D" names, and part of it was me. Either way, it's easy to mix up.

 

[Verdad]

The story is set in first person, but right now my narrator is watching two guys going at it. When he has sex, I can switch to I/he mode which will be easier.

Later, I plan to have him watch more than two guys going at it. That is going to be a nightmare.

I'm writing like ".... Dustin held Dwayne's face in his hands and kissed him passionately. His hands crept down to his lover's crotch."

I'm banking on the fact that the reader will take the first "His" in the second sentence as Dustin since he is part of the subject in the previous sentence. Is that okay? So, I can just put a name in alternate sentences, and the reader reads the next sentence as having the same person as the subject.

It's hard to comment on two sentences in isolation because the previously established flow and the way our attention has been focused up to this point matter too.

As far as your example goes, though, Pilot is entirely right.

Generally speaking, you need to use the name every time it's a different 'he' from the one last mentioned. Some tricks may allow you to skip it sometimes, but for starters, it might be best to stick with that.

Agreed on D names as well.

 

[sun_sea_sky]

Try having them doing things that are anatomically difficult to do to yourself, eg.

He kissed him on the elbow.
He put his cock in his mouth.
He put his arms around him.
He pushed his cock into his anus.
He looked lovingly into his eyes.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Another problem with this is both names starting with a "D" and being the same length. Unfortunately, that can confuse a reader. You don't really read full names in a story--you just catch the first letter and the general length of the name. (This is one reason its so easy to misspell your own characters' names and have that go right through to print with no one else catching it either.)

Oh yeah. I keep worrying that my "Yvonne" is going to turn into a "Yvette" one of these days.

 

[Brandie69]

I just submitted a third-person lesbian story (twins, no less, so no "the blonde elbowed the brunette rudely"), LaRascasse, so I feel your pain. For any action that involves both of them, you have to name at least one of them.

When you follow one of them to the other side of the room for an obvious series of actions, you have to use the name at least once.

It eventually becomes more natural than it felt at first.

I can't wait to go back to the first person

 

[Bramblethorn]

I just submitted a third-person lesbian story (twins, no less, so no "the blonde elbowed the brunette rudely"), LaRascasse, so I feel your pain.

Hair dye and body piercings, dammit ;-)

 

[Boxlicker101]

I write quite a few gay male stories, and I have to be careful about the same thing. Sometime's you can use the man's name, and sometimes a descriptive term, such as: "The kneeling man moved his face slowly forward, taking the bear's cock as far into his mouth as he could."

But avoid overdoing any single reference and, especially, avoid using descriptives that are too long or complicated.

 

[LaRascasse]

I prove this point. I had Dustin and Dwayne's names switched in my head for whatever reason and so had Dwayne first in the "His" sentence. Part of that was the similar "D" names, and part of it was me. Either way, it's easy to mix up.

Advice taken. Dwayne has become Shane.

 

[Brandie69]

Hair dye and body piercings, dammit ;-)

Now why didn't I think of that?

Ah well, there's always next time.