Question for the non-binary crowd

[Bigboobbabe]

Hi all. My spouse, 57, came out to family as non-binary 2 years ago.
Through our whole marriage he (pronoun encouraged by him since we met at age 12) wore some women's clothing and preferred bras with breast forms on casual days, under sweats.
There was no word for how he felt more complete with breasts. So we referred to it as his busty look.

When he came out, he introduced his family to his full femme look, and started on hormones.
There have been many changes throwing me for a loop.

1. Since the hormones and breast growth he almost never wears any female garments except bras.

2. He has let his physical appearance go. Wearing the same size men's work pants as before a 50+ lb weight loss.

3. He always wore his hair in a crew cut, and is growing it out. He hasn't had a haircut in 1.5 years. 1 year since I trimmed his neckline and straightened the bottom and ears.

4. After every shower, he puts gel in and brushes it back. No style or shape. And when I have seen him, he looks unkempt or dirty.

During a conversation Saturday, he told me he feels his most at peace in his life without the testosterone raging through him. Didn't mention if any of that peace had to do with us not living together.

My question... has anyone else felt this way? Is it natural to be physically more female, but present so less put together?

After 34 years as his only ally, I am barely an ally at all since we go 1-2 months with no contact.
Should I say something to him? Just ignore it because it's not my place?
The only counseling he received was 4 months marriage counseling 4/21 to 8/21. Our marriage counselor is a member of the LGBTQ+ community and wrote his note for insurance.

Trying to my best for him.

 

[stickygirl]

tbh I've seen younger NB folks get themselves in this hole, but age is irrelevant here.

I suspect he has more going on than purely gender issues ( sorry if that's sounds trite ) and he needs proper evaluation to help him figure out what is going on. The NB thing may be masking other issues that counsellors don't immediately spot and often those closest aren't in the best place to help or see the cause(s). Ultimately of course it's up to him to seek that help but you could maybe do some research to offer him a list of suitable psychs he could contact.

You are an ally and then some

 

[Bigboobbabe]

tbh I've seen younger NB folks get themselves in this hole, but age is irrelevant here.

I suspect he has more going on than purely gender issues ( sorry if that's sounds trite ) and he needs proper evaluation to help him figure out what is going on. The NB thing may be masking other issues that counsellors don't immediately spot and often those closest aren't in the best place to help or see the cause(s). Ultimately of course it's up to him to seek that help but you could maybe do some research to offer him a list of suitable psychs he could contact.

You are an ally and then some

I "have" to be an ally. We have been together 2/3 of our lives. I don't know any other way to be. Thank you for recognizing it.

I have suggested therapists, sent him articles, suggested books, etc.
He came right out and said he doesn't need it. I get more from counselling than he does.
I put in the work with counseling. He didn't do a single reflection assignment or homework between sessions.

I haven't given up on him. But I don't feel like I know him like I did.

 

[stickygirl]

Hmm... I suspected you might relate something like that.
Just a bit left field but is there any way you can ask him to help someone else? You could tell him his experience might offer insight into another person's problems... You'll need to get creative to make him shift his perspective and a porn site probably isn't going to be the best place to look.

 

[Bramblethorn]

tbh I've seen younger NB folks get themselves in this hole, but age is irrelevant here.

I suspect he has more going on than purely gender issues ( sorry if that's sounds trite ) and he needs proper evaluation to help him figure out what is going on.

This seems like a pretty safe bet. Everybody who's lived a life has some degree of Stuff Going On and for somebody who's trans/NB the gender issues are almost inevitably going to interact with the other stuff.

Some of the "letting himself go" stuff could perhaps be a matter of "now I have HRT I don't need this other stuff to feel comfortable with myself". But I don't think anybody here can say for certain what's happening with him. We can make educated guesses perhaps, but it's not a substitute for hearing it from him.

I "have" to be an ally. We have been together 2/3 of our lives. I don't know any other way to be. Thank you for recognizing it.

I have suggested therapists, sent him articles, suggested books, etc.
He came right out and said he doesn't need it. I get more from counselling than he does.
I put in the work with counseling. He didn't do a single reflection assignment or homework between sessions.

I haven't given up on him. But I don't feel like I know him like I did.

In a relationship, people have responsibilities to look after themselves and they have responsibilities to their partner.

Those things exist in a balance, and at times that balance needs to shift one way or another. If one person is going through heavy stuff - illness, death of a parent, etc. etc. - then the focus is going to be a bit more towards their well-being. Gender transition is one of those things.

But even if one side of things is being prioritised for a while, that doesn't mean the other side can be neglected completely, especially with no clear indication of if/when it's coming back. It sounds like that's where you are at the moment. I've been in a similar position and you have my sympathy. It's hard balancing the need to be kind to somebody you love, who's going through an important episode in their life, with the basic emotional needs that might not be exciting and new.

I tried to explain it to a partner in terms of houseplants: watering the plants might be less important than the other things that's going on in your life, and if that's the situation that's the choice you need to make, but you have to understand that "dead houseplants" might be one of the consequences. Not a punishment, just a consequence.

It sounds as if your concerns are a mix of concern for him, and concern for the relationship. On the former, there may not be a lot you can do beyond what you've already done; if he's letting his physical appearance go but he says he's happier that way, you may need to take him at his word even if you have concerns.

On the latter though, you are well within your rights to say that you need some certainty about where your relationship is headed. You can't make him go to counselling for his own sake but you certainly can ask to resume couples counselling, either with the same counsellor you had before if that works for you, or a different one.

Taking him at his word, if he's feeling fine and at peace now that he has the HRT, that's time for that balance to shift back a bit towards maintaining the relationship - or if the relationship is going to change, then understanding what those changes are going to be.

 

[Bigboobbabe]

I tried to explain it to a partner in terms of houseplants: watering the plants might be less important than the other things that's going on in your life, and if that's the situation that's the choice you need to make, but you have to understand that "dead houseplants" might be one of the consequences. Not a punishment, just a consequence

This is an amazing analogy of my life as it happened.
I was the houseplant..

He began this relationship with A, and it started professionally. Then moved to friendly.
She is very young, has no boundaries, and has friends all over the LGBTQ+ rainbow. She wears very dramatic makeup which he calls "full butterly" or daytime makeup he referred to as "partial butterfly"
He didn't even notice if I had a green mask or was fully made up for a professional woman. Over 50.

I tried for over a year that he was not watering me. Be would do things with her, he didn't do with me.
He missed my grandmother's funeral but stopped working to go to her fish's funeral. Even speaking a eulogy.
He didn't stop work while I was in the hospital with our newborn.
I was a great ally, but she had more information for him. If he hadn't kept it a secret, it wouldn't have hurt so bad.
She betrayed us. Left the state owing us money. He has acknowledged he made some mistakes, which helped.
But at the time his mantra was that I had "no reason" to feel how I felt.
He still does not understand how that is not his call.

 

[Bramblethorn]

This is an amazing analogy of my life as it happened.
I was the houseplant..

He began this relationship with A, and it started professionally. Then moved to friendly.
She is very young, has no boundaries, and has friends all over the LGBTQ+ rainbow. She wears very dramatic makeup which he calls "full butterly" or daytime makeup he referred to as "partial butterfly"
He didn't even notice if I had a green mask or was fully made up for a professional woman. Over 50.

I tried for over a year that he was not watering me. Be would do things with her, he didn't do with me.
He missed my grandmother's funeral but stopped working to go to her fish's funeral. Even speaking a eulogy.
He didn't stop work while I was in the hospital with our newborn.
I was a great ally, but she had more information for him. If he hadn't kept it a secret, it wouldn't have hurt so bad.
She betrayed us. Left the state owing us money. He has acknowledged he made some mistakes, which helped.
But at the time his mantra was that I had "no reason" to feel how I felt.
He still does not understand how that is not his call.

Ugh, I am sorry.

Being an ally, supporting him in his transition, doesn't mean being a doormat. It doesn't even have to mean staying in the relationship with him. I'm not saying you should leave, I'm just some random person on the internet who doesn't know your situation well enough to make that kind of call, just saying that if it feels like it's not working and it's not going to get fixed, then that's a legitimate option. "I can't stay in a relationship where my feelings aren't valued and you're not spending time with me" is not the same as "I can't stay in a relationship because you're transitioning" - even if the transition might be part of what's distracting him.

 

[PallidaMors9]

tbh I've seen younger NB folks get themselves in this hole, but age is irrelevant here.

I suspect he has more going on than purely gender issues ( sorry if that's sounds trite ) and he needs proper evaluation to help him figure out what is going on. The NB thing may be masking other issues that counsellors don't immediately spot and often those closest aren't in the best place to help or see the cause(s). Ultimately of course it's up to him to seek that help but you could maybe do some research to offer him a list of suitable psychs he could contact.

You are an ally and then some

Sticky, I know you're always on here; and I'd conversed with you previously, even a decade ago, under other accounts before I'd deleted them

I'm certain you get flooded with DM's / PM's so I wanted to request permission first to message you

 

[AlexBailey]

Hey Bbb,

I’ve been thinking about how to respond to this thread for a couple of days, there is a lot to unwrap here. I’ve drafted a few versions, trying not to make it so about myself but all I have to share is my experiences which are possibly similar in a few ways.

My first marriage failed shortly after the birth of my first son. His mother has lots of mental health issues that didn’t present until after he was born, including bipolar disorder and borderline personality disorder. Before we married she was supportive of my eccentricity but she tried to use it against me in our divorce, outing me to all of our friends and extended family. I went to presenting straight and soon remarried to a woman who is very supportive of the LGBTQ. I outwardly presented as cis yet have identified as queer while I ran my business and she was a stay at home mom until the kids got older and she went back to school and then became a social worker for the homeless community.


When my youngest kid recently came of age, I’d been doing the dad thing for twenty four years. I’ve been having what feels like a new adolescence, starting shortly before Covid. It’s been an emotional roller coaster and a lot of stress for my relationship with my wife. She doesn’t mind how I present in private but she mostly likes having her man in public. Even then she’s okay as long as I don’t wear breast forms or use makeup. She prefers that I be more androgynous rather than femme and I’m mostly fine with that.

That’s who I am. I’m fluid, not entirely female or male and that was confusing as fuck to figure out.

I’m out as non-binary to our family and friends, my folks know who I am but are forever in denial - it’s basically a non-issue, with them - don’t ask don’t tell. My wife’s extended family seem to think of me as an eccentric artist type but they respect me as a provider for their grandkids and a partner for their daughter. That’s what my priorities have always been.

As I read your story in this thread it sounds to me as though your husband has some serious gender-dysphoria. I wonder if she’s reeling in a middle age ‘adolescence’ like I was.

At forty eight with fewer family distractions I looked in the mirror and saw an ugly and fat middle age dad-bod, I was completely out of sync with who I felt I am inside. I was depressed. I began to feel disconnected from myself, like I was in the wrong body. I started seriously exploring ideas of transitioning, reading, studying, exploring my thoughts and desires. It was stressful. There were times when the only thing I was able to focus on to keep me going was my marriage and still wanting to be my wife’s partner.

I finally focused on my health and getting my body in shape as is. I found I feel much more confident and comfortable however I present and have become satisfied in my body.

It sounds to me that your husband has greater issues with dysphoria than I did. She sounds depressed and unhappy with her body and appearance. It could be that her younger friend is very accommodating and embraces your husband for who they want to be rather than how they present. While this can be a great relief and comfort it also can be an inaccurate mirror.

Your husband may have a disassociation between her mind’s eye and how she presents that she cannot rectify. The idea of counseling could be terrifying because a good counselor will try to help close the gap between reality and perception.

Transitioning can help to close that gap, but depending on your husband’s desire for themself and their fifty-eight year old reality may not be able to reconcile. She may fear losing the mental image they have and be forced to lower her expectations. I’ve had to deal with some of this myself, not just gender issues but also resenting the effects of aging and dissatisfaction with my own attractiveness. It took some reflection to separate those things within my own mind.

I wonder if your husband has both things causing dysphoria within them. Does she want to see themself as a female version of themselves, or as a young and pretty female? The first is possible and requires acceptance of what can and cannot be changed, the other requires denial and disassociation with reality.

Your husband’s young friend may be fueling the denial and triggering addicting dopamine hits, making it harder for her to be objective. While the friendship could be comforting now, losing her friendship and emotional support someday could be devastating.

Bbb, there is only so much you can do and it’s up to you to decide what that is. You can’t be a help if you aren’t taking care of your own mental health.

You might find it helpful to draft several letters to your husband about your thoughts, feelings, and desires. sit down and write your thoughts out one evening, don’t send it, put it away. After a day or two write another, then another. Later reflect on what you’ve written, see what feels right and what sticks. I’ve used this to sort emotions from thoughts. You could eventually find the ideas you’d like to share or you may just learn more about yourself and what your needs are.

 

[Escierto]

Reading your post above, it’s real. Is there anyone who looks at themselves as they age and is not hard on themselves about what they see? It’s tough.

 

[AlexBailey]

Aw heck, I just realized I used the wrong pronouns in my previous post. My apologies.

 

[Bigboobbabe]

Hey Bbb,

I’ve been thinking about how to respond to this thread for a couple of days, there is a lot to unwrap here. I’ve drafted a few versions, trying not to make it so about myself but all I have to share is my experiences which are possibly similar in a few ways.

My first marriage failed shortly after the birth of my first son. His mother has lots of mental health issues that didn’t present until after he was born, including bipolar disorder and borderline personality disorder. Before we married she was supportive of my eccentricity but she tried to use it against me in our divorce, outing me to all of our friends and extended family. I went to presenting straight and soon remarried to a woman who is very supportive of the LGBTQ. I outwardly presented as cis yet have identified as queer while I ran my business and she was a stay at home mom until the kids got older and she went back to school and then became a social worker for the homeless community.


When my youngest kid recently came of age, I’d been doing the dad thing for twenty four years. I’ve been having what feels like a new adolescence, starting shortly before Covid. It’s been an emotional roller coaster and a lot of stress for my relationship with my wife. She doesn’t mind how I present in private but she mostly likes having her man in public. Even then she’s okay as long as I don’t wear breast forms or use makeup. She prefers that I be more androgynous rather than femme and I’m mostly fine with that.

That’s who I am. I’m fluid, not entirely female or male and that was confusing as fuck to figure out.

I’m out as non-binary to our family and friends, my folks know who I am but are forever in denial - it’s basically a non-issue, with them - don’t ask don’t tell. My wife’s extended family seem to think of me as an eccentric artist type but they respect me as a provider for their grandkids and a partner for their daughter. That’s what my priorities have always been.

As I read your story in this thread it sounds to me as though your husband has some serious gender-dysphoria. I wonder if she’s reeling in a middle age ‘adolescence’ like I was.

At forty eight with fewer family distractions I looked in the mirror and saw an ugly and fat middle age dad-bod, I was completely out of sync with who I felt I am inside. I was depressed. I began to feel disconnected from myself, like I was in the wrong body. I started seriously exploring ideas of transitioning, reading, studying, exploring my thoughts and desires. It was stressful. There were times when the only thing I was able to focus on to keep me going was my marriage and still wanting to be my wife’s partner.

I finally focused on my health and getting my body in shape as is. I found I feel much more confident and comfortable however I present and have become satisfied in my body.

It sounds to me that your husband has greater issues with dysphoria than I did. She sounds depressed and unhappy with her body and appearance. It could be that her younger friend is very accommodating and embraces your husband for who they want to be rather than how they present. While this can be a great relief and comfort it also can be an inaccurate mirror.

Your husband may have a disassociation between her mind’s eye and how she presents that she cannot rectify. The idea of counseling could be terrifying because a good counselor will try to help close the gap between reality and perception.

Transitioning can help to close that gap, but depending on your husband’s desire for themself and their fifty-eight year old reality may not be able to reconcile. She may fear losing the mental image they have and be forced to lower her expectations. I’ve had to deal with some of this myself, not just gender issues but also resenting the effects of aging and dissatisfaction with my own attractiveness. It took some reflection to separate those things within my own mind.

I wonder if your husband has both things causing dysphoria within them. Does she want to see themself as a female version of themselves, or as a young and pretty female? The first is possible and requires acceptance of what can and cannot be changed, the other requires denial and disassociation with reality.

Your husband’s young friend may be fueling the denial and triggering addicting dopamine hits, making it harder for her to be objective. While the friendship could be comforting now, losing her friendship and emotional support someday could be devastating.

Bbb, there is only so much you can do and it’s up to you to decide what that is. You can’t be a help if you aren’t taking care of your own mental health.

You might find it helpful to draft several letters to your husband about your thoughts, feelings, and desires. sit down and write your thoughts out one evening, don’t send it, put it away. After a day or two write another, then another. Later reflect on what you’ve written, see what feels right and what sticks. I’ve used this to sort emotions from thoughts. You could eventually find the ideas you’d like to share or you may just learn more about yourself and what your needs are.

Thank you for such a thoughtful and insightful response. You gave me a lot to unpack.
My daughter loves her new relationship with her father.
And i feel like an outsider in my own family.
I will be reflecting on your words for a while.

 

[Bigboobbabe]

Aw heck, I just realized I used the wrong pronouns in my previous post. My apologies.

No worries. That is one are where my spouse and don't have issues.

 

[nostuff]

I think it obvious that others have much more insight into your husband's issues than do I, but I think it also obvious that you need to need to dump him.

To be clear, I have no experience comparable to your situation. But your husband disappears for months at a time, has taken another lover and refuses to make any effort at saving the marriage? That is abusive behavior. It might not be physical, but it is mental and emotional. You owe him nothing. Get out. Time to think of yourself.