Question for non believers

[Juliangel]

OK Todd's thread got me thinking about this. When you do not believe in God what do you do if you are in court and they ask you to swear to tell the truth on the bible so help you God?

Would you tell them you do not believe or just do it knowing it would have no meaning to you since you do not believe in it?

 

[Guest]

I think they could just shorten it to
"Do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth"
or add the person or persons chosen religious figure to it.
you don't hear em sayin anything like
"So help you Goddess... or Buddha... "

 

[Pyper]

Hey, look, I just noticed this thread.

To answer your questions: I stopped believing in God when I grew up, just like I stopped believing in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

And do they really say, "So help you God" anymore? Well, if they did, I wouldn't make a big old dealy out of it and just swear to tell the truth anyway. I don't need the threat of hell hanging over my head to be honest.

 

[Xander]

Hey, look, I just noticed this thread.

To answer your questions: I stopped believing in God when I grew up, just like I stopped believing in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

And do they really say, "So help you God" anymore? Well, if they did, I wouldn't make a big old dealy out of it and just swear to tell the truth anyway. I don't need the threat of hell hanging over my head to be honest.

What Pyper said.

 

[Rosebud]

i went to bible college for two years..and lived and breathed god for along time...why don't i want it now??? why did he take my sister at 16 and left her daughter with no mom...some glorious plan??? yeah right...
why did he take my dad when he was trying to serve him the best he could??? to give him his rewards...NOOOOOO.....
if god wanted to do things for us he would do things like...take care of the people that cause us the most strife...yeah i know he gives us strife to make us better people...
why does he want us to fear him so much but yet teaches us love...fear and love are not the same thing...they do not go together at all... i lived my lfe so long for him and i was no better off then than i am now

 

[Juspar Emvan]

There's a line in the bible (Matthew I think) where Jesus is quoted as saying something to the effect of "Don't swear on anything, just tell the truth always." Frankly swearing on the bible or the Christian god has always made me laugh.

If you believe, then you shouldn't, if you don't believe then what's the point.

 

[CreamyLady]

In California, you swear under penalty of perjury. God doesn't come into it.

 

[RonG]

I've Done This!

Atheists and other non-believers complete what is known as an affirmation. Basically, they read you a statement that goes "You do affirm to tell the truth in all matters relating to this case." My answer is just "Yes" at that point.

In my case, I was testifying in a civil case as a technical advisor to the defense. They read me a really long statement in the judge's chambers ahead of time and then in open court it was the brief exchange you see above. I was told by the defense attorneys that the reason they do that is to avoid the appearance that the witness is some sort or godless heathen, however accurate, and avoid inflaming any prejudicial notions of the jury.

 

[Angel]

They still say "So help you God" here, but the one trial I was testifying in I'd explained before hand and they reworded.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Exactly. No court in the U.S. will ever force you to swear to God.

I had to go through something like this for my son's baptism. The father (and Godfather) are supposed to denounce Satan in the name of the child. In other words, I 'm supposed to say, for my kid, that I reject Evil as an incarnate force. I spoke to the church leaders beforehand and made it clear that that wasn't going to happen. I don't believe in God, and I don't believe in a Devil. But, as I see the value in being raised with the concept of a Supreme Being, but I see no value in scaring children by espousing the purely medieval concept of Beelzebub as some sort of eternal Detention teacher. I draw the line at spiritual Boogey-men.

The church was very good at excising that bit from the ceremony, and the word "Satan" never crossed my lips.

 

[Cheyenne]

I had to go through something like this for my son's baptism.

I don't believe in God, and I don't believe in a Devil.

A question because I'm curious- if you don't believe in God or the Devil, why have the baptism at all?

 

[BrainyBeauty]

I recently served on a Grand Jury.  As RonG stated, the courts allow a witness to "affirm" instead of swear.

Here, they also allow the words "So help you God" and the hand on the bible procedure to be skipped.

I did find it amusing though that, of course, those same witnesses oftentimes invoked the name of Jesus and God and the word 'Hell' in their testimony!

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

[/B][/QUOTE]
A question because I'm curious- if you don't believe in God or the Devil, why have the baptism at all? [/B][/QUOTE]

I thought I explained that...

Just becasue I don't believe in God that doesn't mean my children shouldn't have the opportunity to make their own decisions, and they can't make their own decisions about thing they don't understand. So they go to church, I discuss God and Heaven with them, and the true meaning of Christmas. You think kids don't have questions about death and justice? Religion provides a comfort and a sense of order that they can understand, and will not be debilitating when they grow up and have harder questions. Religion affords an opportunity to develop a persoanl moral sense. Etc. Etc.

 

[Cheyenne]

I thought I explained that...

Sorry, must have missed your explanation from another thread. I most often avoid the religious battle threads.

Maybe the timing of the baptism would be my question, then. Many religions don't baptize until the person is older and can choose and make a promise on their own. "Dad" wouldn't have to promise a thing to a god he doesn't believe exists, in that case. My own church baptizes babies, and that is why the parents and God-parents speak for the child.

On the other hand, as a God-parent I have promised to make sure the children are brought to church and taught the Christian faith. You seem to be able to do that without believing yourself, so the pledge is kept.

[Edited by Cheyenne on 04-14-2001 at 08:15 AM]

 

[Comshaw]

From Juliangel:

OK Todd's thread got me thinking about this. When you do not believe in God what do you do if you are in court and they ask you to swear to tell the truth on the bible so help you God?

Would you tell them you do not believe or just do it knowing it would have no meaning to you since you do not believe in it?

I wouldn't make a big deal out of it. If I don't believe in God, what matter's it if I swear to a God or swear to anything else? Evoking the name of god holds no power for me, so if someone insists that I do, makes no never mind to me. It just satisfies their sense of ceremony and decorum.

On that line, perhaps we should go back to the root of the word testimony, at least for males. It comes from the practice during Roman times of a man putting his left hand on his testicles to swear an oath. That should be effective with anyone that has balls! Can't say how it would be with those that lack the same.

Comshaw

 

[lazarus UK]

In the UK:

For the atheists & agnostics:

"I do solemnly attest and affirm that the evidence I shall give ... "

Some of my colleagues swear on the Koran, the Guru Granth Sahib or other relevant holy book.

The trick if you want to convince anyone though is to let the Court know in advance - refusing the testament looks bad.