Question for all black men

[Svenskaflicka]

I got into a discussion on another thread here at Lit, which got out of hand. I deicded to move it here, for a more serious discussion. Please, no false or hateful posts here, please, please, I'm quite serious about my question.

Myself a big fan of the interracial section, I do sometimes get a bit curious with all the clichés, as for example three black men having sex with one white woman, and while getting udnressed, the first one whips out a 10 inch dick, the second a 12 inch one, and the third topping them all by waving a 14 inch dick like a giant sword.
Now, my question:

Where should one draw the line when it comes to racial issues?
Do black men find it insulting to be described as sex-starved creatures with equipments of mythical proportions, or is it harmless fun?

And another thing, what about the language? Are words like "nigger" and "nigga" acceptable as a part of the dirty talk that often spices up an erotic story, or are words like that offending?

I'd really like a serious discussion about this, as I'm myself interested in writing interracial erotica. You're welcome to read my stories, and comment them here.

Room-Mating

12 Hearts, ch.3: Down, boy!




Svenskaflicka

 

[spankableBelle]

i, too, am very curious about the answers to these questions as one of the stories that i am writing is along the lines of a black/white sexual relationship...

belle

 

[medjay]

First of all, you might want to take a look at this old thread:

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83069&highlight=racial+story+feedback

Lots of good insights into the subject.

Other than that, to answer a couple of your questions, you have to decide how realistic you want your story to be. Most interracial stories are written by whites who probably don't know that many black people. In fact, their knowledge of us most likely comes from similarly uninformed sources. I don't think many white writers actually consult real live black people when doing research; they just roll with the same stereotypical ideas that have been around for ages.

This can be your chance to revolutionize the whole genre by actually coming up with a story that features a black person who behaves like a regular human being instead of a characature (sp?). We don't all have foot long dicks and we don't all live to ravish young white girls. I understand that this is an idea that for some reason fascinates many white people as is shown by the volume of stories that contain this theme and I'm not offended by someone else's fantasies. I just think it's a shame that those fantasies are so limited.



P.S. How about a link to the other thread you talked about? I'd like to see what was discussed.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Thank you for your input, Medjay!

I agree with you that most of the stories in the Interracial section seem to have been written by white people who have never even met a black person, let alone had sex with one. They are using clichés and stereotypes in order to create a story about a woman's sex drive being set free (and developing into an uncontrollable frenzy) by a sexual being, the more erotic the better. Hence the 14-inch dicks.

I do try to break that boring old pattern in my own stories (you're very welcome to read them and see if I have succeeded), as they are partly based on personal experience. However, all people have different taste, and I'd like to hear some opinions about how a black person would feel about stories like my own, my description of the black/white relations, and my language.

As for the other thread, this is the link for it, but I really can't recommend it!

Thank you for your contribution, I really appreciate it!

 

[medjay]

As for the other thread, this is the link for it, but I really can't recommend it!

Heh . . . I see what you mean!

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Nagging

How do you feel about someone using the words "nigger" and "nigga" in a story?

Would that be insulting or just words? Would it matter what color the author has?

 

[medjay]

Re: Nagging

How do you feel about someone using the words "nigger" and "nigga" in a story?

Would that be insulting or just words? Would it matter what color the author has?

I guess it would all depend on the context. I've never been one to tell another writer what they should and shouldn't say. I don't offend easily and I believe in free speech. The worst that would happen is I would consider the author to be stupid and unimaginative but only if that sort of language were used in a throwaway type of manner.

One of my favorite mainstream authors is white and uses horribly racist language in his prose but it always exists within a valid context and you can tell that he is just as offended by the language as the reader.

My advice: Don't include the words if they don't fit the story. Don't use them for shock value. Remember your audience and think about whether they will be offended and, if so, do you mind?

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Thank you, Medjay! *big smile*

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: Re: Nagging

I guess it would all depend on the context. I've never been one to tell another writer what they should and shouldn't say.
...
My advice: Don't include the words if they don't fit the story. Don't use them for shock value. Remember your audience and think about whether they will be offended and, if so, do you mind?

Svenskaflicka,
Many people find even accurate depictions of the dreaded "N-word" offensive -- no matter how accurate the context. Most rational people know that the word exists and is used, so using it in proper context is acceptable. Ignore any feedback that concentrates on your use of Nigger or Nigga becuse it just indictes you've hit a "hot button" that short-circuits rational thought.

I would suggest that "proper context" would be restricting it to dialogue and avoiding it in the narrative. That all depends on your narrator, though. If your narrator is a character then the whole story falls into the context of "characterization."

I'm not sure what the current opposing perjoritive is, but "Honkey," "Whitey," and other counter-slurs used by blacks against whites fall into the same class as Nigger as far as the potential for causing irrational offense.

Just as a personal preference, I wouldn't use racial slurs in an erotic story except in a confrontation with a rejected lover and a new lover. There shouldn't be any racism between lovers -- with the possible exception of role-playing the part of stereotypical porn characters.

 

[Ulyssa]

I interrupted my character's use of the N-Word.

Since my text was based upon personal experience, my narrator character interrupted the speech of a person in the midst of a venting diatribe.

"Are you still dating that nig..."
"Don't say it, mother."

It got the point across, something was said about both characters, and I believe it created the right amount of tension for the situation.

The last reason may be the best. We write to move people one way or the other. Some people write to move just a single hand, but I like to think that more of us write to influence minds.

 

[Ulyssa]

Another answer to the question from a source who knows.

My husband deals with a large cross-section of people in his business. As an African American professional, he must deal with white professionals, black and white working class, street hustlers, and rednecks. As the white wife of such a man as well as the mother of his children, I too am forced to deal with all sorts of people in my life.

He has a strength and assuredness about him which has absolutely nothing to do with the size of his dick. As a favor to him, I do not use the N-word in my writing. As a favor to me, I do not condone a black man calling my main character "bitch" or using any of the domination and humiliation tactics which so many other authors bring to their work.

For my efforts I get clubbed with one-votes. My spelling and grammatical structure are carefully double checked. I have a mature writing style and a decent story telling ability, so I don't think I'm getting the "U is bad riter" treatment as much as I'm getting the disapproval of the "suck dis black dick, you white bitch" fan club.

These are the same people who send me anonymous--"Oh, I get it. You just don't like white men" emails. I stopped trying to answer that question a long time ago.

The taboo of mixed race sex is still strong enough in this country (and apparantly in India and Japan) for it to be stereotyped into a dehumanizing fantasy for all involved. An inner city black man in a muscular rage forces a sheltered toy woman who only leaves the house to go shopping at the mall to have sex with him and thirty casual bystanders.

Though this fantasy does work for many people, it belongs in the non-consensual catagory.

Sorry for the rant. I got carried away.

 

[Couture]

Fuck being PC.

Let's face it. You are writing an erotic story, not doing a research paper on human sexuality. If writing about a black guy with an eighteen inch long schlong turns you on, then go for it.

If you start thinking about the reality of the odds in finding such a freak of nature, whether he wanted you or not, and how much the mother-fucker would hurt, then it will probably have about as much erotic potential as a research paper.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

The N-word

My husband deals with a large cross-section of people in his business. As an African American professional, he must deal with white professionals, black and white working class, street hustlers, and rednecks. As the white wife of such a man as well as the mother of his children, I too am forced to deal with all sorts of people in my life.

He has a strength and assuredness about him which has absolutely nothing to do with the size of his dick. As a favor to him, I do not use the N-word in my writing. As a favor to me, I do not condone a black man calling my main character "bitch" or using any of the domination and humiliation tactics which so many other authors bring to their work.

For my efforts I get clubbed with one-votes. My spelling and grammatical structure are carefully double checked. I have a mature writing style and a decent story telling ability, so I don't think I'm getting the "U is bad riter" treatment as much as I'm getting the disapproval of the "suck dis black dick, you white bitch" fan club.

These are the same people who send me anonymous--"Oh, I get it. You just don't like white men" emails. I stopped trying to answer that question a long time ago.

The taboo of mixed race sex is still strong enough in this country (and apparantly in India and Japan) for it to be stereotyped into a dehumanizing fantasy for all involved. An inner city black man in a muscular rage forces a sheltered toy woman who only leaves the house to go shopping at the mall to have sex with him and thirty casual bystanders.

Though this fantasy does work for many people, it belongs in the non-consensual catagory.

Sorry for the rant. I got carried away.

You have a very good point. My boyfriend (and hopefully father-to-be of my future children) is also black, and I know that he really hates the n-word, and finds it degrading and insulting. I never use that words when speaking with him, nor does he ever use the words "bitch" or "slut", as he knows I find these words equally degrading and insulting.

What confuses me is if I should apply the same rules for my Lit Authorship as I do in my personal life, or if I should throw all considerations to the wind when I'm writing.

The use of n-words, or the concept of a black man having a white female lover as his "slut" is not a turn on for me, as I have a tendency of wanting realism and mutual consent in my stories as well as in real life. It's interesting for me to know how my readers feel about this; where they think my stories rate on a scale from racistic to Care Bear Quality. I have used the n-word in one story, where a racistic southern girl is angry with a black guy, and I've wondered ever since if that was going too far.

OK, I think you, Harold and Medjay together have given me a way of finding a golden middle way through this mined field:
no exaggerations, more realism, and no using the n-words unless it's a essential part of the development of the story - and then only in the mouth of a character with those kind of views.

Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Fuck being PC.

Let's face it. You are writing an erotic story, not doing a research paper on human sexuality. If writing about a black guy with an eighteen inch long schlong turns you on, then go for it.

If you start thinking about the reality of the odds in finding such a freak of nature, whether he wanted you or not, and how much the mother-fucker would hurt, then it will probably have about as much erotic potential as a research paper.

Can we really take on that kind of let-go attitude? Sure, this is a place of (erotic) entertainment, but don't we all, everywhere, all the time, have the obligation of considering the long-going effects of our words and actions?

The more people embrace the clichés, the longer they will live on - and they don't just stay nicely here in Lit, they go with us out in real life, affecting or words and actions out there. We may not be aware of them rubbing off on us, but they do - and they dull our minds for the seriousness of the problem out there. In the real world.

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: Another answer to the question from a source who knows.

Though this fantasy does work for many people, it belongs in the non-consensual catagory.

Sorry for the rant. I got carried away.

Don't apologize for saying something that needs to be said -- especially when you say it well.

 

[Couture]

So, should we ban all incest, bondage, and the non-consent categories, lest something rub off on us? What about stories where people are killed? What about tv programs that are violent?

I'm not suggesting you cry fire in a crowded theater, but writing about black guys with foot long dicks isn't going to ruin the world.

 

[Axeltheswede]

Question on the table

I have to agree with Couture. I like to think Literotica is a place where almost anything can be "thrown up against the wall". What sticks, sticks. And the genre evolves in the hands of authors and readers.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

So, should we ban all incest, bondage, and the non-consent categories, lest something rub off on us? What about stories where people are killed? What about tv programs that are violent?

I'm not suggesting you cry fire in a crowded theater, but writing about black guys with foot long dicks isn't going to ruin the world.

As for stories where people are being killed... if you're referring to snuff movies and such, then yes, I do suggest that tehy should be banned! That is one of the lowest forms of pervertedness, in my book.

As for the rubbing off, I think that the reason why people write in clichés, is because they have that attitude in real life. The less we do to fight it, the more accepted it will be. The fact that it seems so harmless makes us vulnerable to its influence.

And finally, when it comes to TV programs that are violent - can you name anything they do that is actually GOOD for mankind?

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: Question on the table

I have to agree with Couture. I like to think Literotica is a place where almost anything can be "thrown up against the wall". What sticks, sticks. And the genre evolves in the hands of authors and readers.

I don't think that any category should be banned.

Howver, there are trends in some genres that make me wonder about the future of the world. Are authors who write about violent rapes, degrading women, and blacks with foot-long dicks expressing their own desires and feelings or are they "playing to the house?"

Genres do evolve, but they also get stuck in a rut becuase authors write what they think readers of a genre want to see.

Without authors willing to inject a bit more realism or write against the stereotypes of a genre, the genre can't evolve. I'd like to think that a well-written interracial story that defies the stereotypes can overcome the "bad" trend in the interracial category. ("bad" by MY definiton -- you may not agree.)

 

[Couture]

I didn't mention snuff. You did. And it certainly doesn't turn me on.

Anyway, people get killed on TV and in the movies all the time.

As for what good does it do; it gives the reader, listener, watcher, an escape from the ordinary for a brief span of time.

A chance to escape from the 6x10 portioned off, politically correct, prison we spend 9 hours a day in. The screaming kids, the take-out dinners, and the one hour commute, and seven hours of sleep that make up our lives.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Anyway, people get killed on TV and in the movies all the time.

As for what good does it do; it gives the reader, listener, watcher, an escape from the ordinary for a brief span of time.

So, just because it happends all the time, that makes it OK? In my opinion, that makes it even WORSE!

And I don't mind people escaping ordinary lives every once in awhile, but when I do it, I prefer to escape into some place nicer and friendlier, not into violence and hatred and prejudice.

Though I think we're getting sidetracked here. I'll be glad to discuss TV and movies with you, Couture, but how about we do that on another thread, allright? I want to focus this thread on the discussion of Interracial erotic stories, and how a black person feels about the extremes of that category.

 

[peachykeen]

very interesting conversation here. I don't have an opinion to weigh in with of my own but am enjoying the topic as it is being explored. You go all you brilliant little literoticans!

 

[medjay]

I'd like to offer both an observation and a question.

Fisrt, while browsing through the Interracial section I find that the majority of stories that resort to racial language and degadation on both the male and female parts are usually poorly written and lacking in any kind of style which, to me, relates directly to the intellect and attitude of the author as well as the reader who derives entertainment from it. Of course I'm not placing myself on any moral or artistic high ground, that's just how it seems to me.

My question: I've always been curious as to why certain white people seem to have such fascination with the humiliation and degradation aspects of interracial sex. So many stories involve a black man taking a white man's wife or girlfriend right in front of him. Can anyone clue me in on why this fetish is so popular?

 

[peachykeen]

can't answer that one, med!

I will say this, when looking at porn photos (still photos, not so much into movies) I find I really enjoy a lot of interracial ones. But, because photography is one of my hobbies, I think what I respond to is the dark skin/light skin contrast. There is something aesthetically about the chiarascurro of it that gets my attention. Is that weird, or a valid artistic point?

 

[KillerMuffin]

I think that we have two kinds of authors here. One of the kinds are those who are interested in erotica as a form of writing. Everything else is fabulous, they like it too, but down at the root of it, the writing part of the writing is where the interest lies. The other kind is into the fantasty side of erotica. Writing allows them to manipulate the fantasy into being whatever they want it to be.

Most of the writers here are the latter kind. They are sharing fantasy not writing. I hope the distinction is coming through.

I've got an interracial story, it's about a white man and a korean woman during the war in the pacific. It's not really all that good because it's not. Anyway, I wrote it for the story, the erotica genre, the base writing. I want people to read it and notice the writing and find the story to be good because I write good fiction.

Most erotic stories here are about the fantasy. The authors could care less if you think the writing is good as long you thought the story was good. They want you to notice the sex and the fantasy. In particular, they want you to enjoy the fantasy with them. They want people to read it and notice the fantasy and find the story to be good because they write a good fantasy.

Interracial is no different than any other category. Most of the toplists are clogged with stories that happen to come from people who write both good fiction and good fantasy at the same time.

I'm pretty sure the average black man reads a couple of these black men with white wife fantasies and wonders what the fuck is wrong with white people. I know I read the average latina fantasy and roll my eyes. The characters aren't based in reality, the plots aren't based in reality, they're all based firmly in fantasy and that's they way they like 'em.

Like all other sexual fantasies, there's nothing wrong with them. They shouldn't be harshly judged against a writing standard that really doesn't apply to them. You can't judge sexual fantasy with a sexual fiction ruler, and likewise you can't judge sexual fiction with a sexual fantasy ruler. They will always fall short because they were never desinged to meet the objectives of the other.

As far is writing realistic interracial, that's actually easy. Instead of treating the characters as sexual objects, treat them as human beings. Fantasies are all about the sex and the characters are sexual objects. Their realism varies with the talent of the author.

Black men are arrogant, powerful, and confident. They're also insecure, afraid, caring, compassionate, loving, gentle, and everything else people are. Treat the character like that and you'll come out okay.

Racial slurs are a different kettle of fish. Should you use them? It depends on how comfortable you are with the notion of using them. I firmly believe that a charater should say whatever is appropriate for the character. You simply aren't going to have a cruel plantation overseer pre-civil war that isn't going to use the n-word. I use the word only in context of the character. If the character uses it, then in it goes. If people despise the character for it, that's even better because it means the character was effective.

Some people will get pissy whenever they see a racial slur in writing. They will demand you remove it or call you all sorts of names for using it. However, these people--or so I've noticed--are few and far between. Most understand the context of the word is important, not just the fact that it exists.



And as far as that other thread goes? Anything by Yoyotwat is a waste of time. Anything involving an interracial relationship with Indian from India people in it is by Yoyotwat. The man is a troll.