Question 2

[Shwenn]

I find that the idea of two obese people of opposite sex going at it is a very unappealing idea to me.

Let's say I found the thought disgusting.

Would there be any point to me proclaiming that?

What would you think of me if I did that?

Would you think me crass, mean and hurtful if I did?

I don't think it's such a bad analogy.

 

[Stella_Omega]

yeah, crass and hurtful.

I don't think there's much point in proclaiming it, unless you were being asked to watch these fatties-- but that's more of a "no thanks" moment, don't you think?

What about the unspoken correlary, that fatties should never have sex because it weirds you out-- which is certainly the homophobe's belief vis men?

 

[Corylea]

I find that the idea of two obese people of opposite sex going at it is a very unappealing idea to me.

Let's say I found the thought disgusting.

Would there be any point to me proclaiming that?

What would you think of me if I did that?

Would you think me crass, mean and hurtful if I did?

I don't think it's such a bad analogy.

It's a great analogy, because it's the sort of opinion that a lot of people hold but few people proclaim, because they know it's mean and hurtful, and they know there's no point to announcing it to the world. It's a "not my thing" feeling for most people. I've never heard anyone say that fat people shouldn't have sex with one another, just because many people find us unappealing -- it's that need to proclaim one's disgust that usually means that something beyond disgust is actually operating.

 

[Shwenn]

yeah, crass and hurtful.

I don't think there's much point in proclaiming it, unless you were being asked to watch these fatties-- but that's more of a "no thanks" moment, don't you think?

That is exactly what I think.

What about the unspoken correlary, that fatties should never have sex because it weirds you out-- which is certainly the homophobe's belief vis men?

I don't think there is a whole lot I could write to clarify. I can throw this out, should anybody find it edifying: I have issues with my own weight. Like most women, I get an inordinate amount of my self-worth from the way my body looks.

These things rarely exist in a vacuum.

 

[Stella_Omega]

... it's that need to proclaim one's disgust that usually means that something beyond disgust is actually operating.

...I have issues with my own weight. Like most women, I get an inordinate amount of my self-worth from the way my body looks.

These things rarely exist in a vacuum.

Yep-- that need for homophobes to proclaim their disguts? IMO, it goes a long way past mere dislike or discomfort with other people's choices.

 

[The_Trouvere]

I think it is instinctive. I have had gay friends, but I dislike overt displays of sexual desire between men.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think it is instinctive. I have had gay friends, but I dislike overt displays of sexual desire between men.

Yeah, but-- what is the instinct? Do you feel fear? Disgust? A profound sense of evil at hand?

Embarrasment?

 

[Munachi]

how can it be instinctive? as stella said, what would that instinct be? and if it is an instinct, then that really brings up the question why only male gay sex is supposedly a problem to the instincts, and not female gay sex...

 

[Liar]

For me...

It's not unappealing as in revolting, just uninterresting.

I consider myself bi-amorous, but I only very rarely find men visually exciting. (Whereas I find women attractive more often than not.)

Unless one of the men is me, there's just nothing going on that holds enough entertainment value to watch. Except maybe for comedy, if they make funny faces.

To be crass and insensitive (sue me), I have the same reaction to two men having sex as I'd have to two un-attractive people of any gender. Good for you, but I'd rather go read a book or sumpfing. Unless there's room for extra meat in that sandwich, then I might be game.

That's why reading about people having sex has greater appeal to me than visual porn. Because I populate the movie in my mind's eye with faces and bodies that are exciting to me.

 

[Shwenn]

That's why reading about people having sex has greater appeal to me than visual porn. Because I populate the movie in my mind's eye with faces and bodies that are exciting to me.

I agree. That's how I feel about literature vs. movies. My favorite literature is the sort where the author leaves quite a bit up to you, almost forces you to be their cohort in creating the story.

It's hard to find somebody who does that well but, damn, it does satisfy.

 

[impressive]

Yeah, but-- what is the instinct? Do you feel fear? Disgust? A profound sense of evil at hand?

Embarrasment?

Envy.

 

[Shwenn]

Envy.

Hush, now. We're dancing around that thought.

 

[SadieRose]

Confused rant (forgive me I just woke up)

But quite rightly. The topic is why people find one thing appealing and one thing UNappealing, right?

The 'fat people' analogy was a good illustration of this. I like the idea of men with men, but not necessaily fat, gross guys with other fat, gross guys (sorry fat, gross guys... I'm sure you're all honeys really but bear with me!) But on the other hand, there are websites devoted to people who really get off on watching (ahem) larger-boned people copulate. Or even just lie around sans panties.

(And I'm a larger-boned lady myself, before you start throwing rocks!)

I DO get off on the idea of two men together (and two women) but as has been previously mentioned, it's a conceptual thing. What turns me on about MM relationships may not be what turns YOU on (if it does at all) it's what goes on in my head. I put that down the lifelong belief that I was born a gay man in a woman's body. My MM fantasies are all from a MM viewpoint, not a MMF viewpoint, if that makes sense.

But just to confuse the issue, many gay men are not attracted to other gay men at all. Some make a lifelong quest out of the desire to sleep with a STRAIGHT man. So even some gay men believe that to be a gay man is not to be a man (or rather, not to be a sexually desirable man)!! Many guys who sleep with other men still declare themselves to be "Not Gay".

I believe that what turns me on is a certain type of person and for me the idea of a person like that, getting it on with someone similar is like the grail. And yes there is a degree of envy because that person is the kind of person I'd like to be so it's the embodiment of an impossible fantasy, which makes it so fulfilling from a personal point of view.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that we all like what we like, and there's no real rhyme or reason for it. If everyone got used to that and stopped getting upset about what other people like or dislike, I think we'd probably all be a lot happier.

xxs.Sadie

 

[Fallenfromgrace]

As a female who is only sexually attracted to other female's i'll probably be stoned by the mob for saying this...

But.

I think 2 men being intimate with each other, be it soft and tender or rampant can't-hold-it-in fucking, is quite sexy.

But then the idea of two people who are attracted to each other and possibly even love each other, getting it on is quite sexy. To me at least.

I mean, porn may not be any kind of attraction- i.e. just the job as it were, but the idea of 2 people being intimate, and the fact that you can be a bit of a voyeur is in some ways rather sexy.

There have been times where i have read gay male porn, or watched it out of curiosity and i guess it could be said i was turned on to a degree. Part of that has to do with the idea of being able to imagine that the people involved are women on occasion. But, if i wanted to have that image, wouldnt i just watch lesbian porn? well, no, because it's partly about variety too and the knowing that you can only be a voyeur, and in a way that you are not in some way qaulified to involved in such a union, in my case because they are 2 gay men, and i am a women attracted to women...

god, i don't even know if i'm making sense...forgive me...just my opinion anyway...

 

[NoJo]

I'm "officially" only attracted to women too, but my rambling daydreams know otherwise. And really when it comes down t it it doesn't take much imagination to get turned on by a finely toned naked body be it male or female. All I have to do is loosen up the ol' brain cells and start stroking meself

 

[neonlyte]

Yeah, but-- what is the instinct? Do you feel fear? Disgust? A profound sense of evil at hand?

Embarrasment?

Scared?

*** cue sound of clouds parting and deep rumbling voice asking 'wot the fuck do you two think you're doing' ***

 

[sr71plt]

All sex is good. Everyone is bi. Most people just aren't fully experienced (and/or are pretending).

 

[Shwenn]

As a female who is only sexually attracted to other female's i'll probably be stoned by the mob for saying this...

But.

I think 2 men being intimate with each other, be it soft and tender or rampant can't-hold-it-in fucking, is quite sexy.

There have been some recent studies that revealed we women are capable of being turned on by a lot of things we aren't really sexually attracted to.

I am totally straight, never even had a drunken, college, 'curiosity'-based lesbian experience. I am just completely disinterested in sex with another woman. But Playboy shoots turn me on.

It's odd but it's true.

I'd still like to stone you, though. You said I would so I got a stone all ready to throw and I'd just feel silly if I didn't throw it.

 

[Fallenfromgrace]

There have been some recent studies that revealed we women are capable of being turned on by a lot of things we aren't really sexually attracted to.

I am totally straight, never even had a drunken, college, 'curiosity'-based lesbian experience. I am just completely disinterested in sex with another woman. But Playboy shoots turn me on.

It's odd but it's true.

I'd still like to stone you, though. You said I would so I got a stone all ready to throw and I'd just feel silly if I didn't throw it.

Ahhh, but are you without sin?

 

[Shwenn]

Ahhh, but are you without sin?

What is this 'sin' of which you speak?

 

[off2bed]

Yep-- that need for homophobes to proclaim their disguts? IMO, it goes a long way past mere dislike or discomfort with other people's choices.

Rape, murder, and child molestation disgust people and they proclaim their disgust quite regularly. To jump to the conclusion that proclaiming one's disgust for murder proves that person has a hidden desire to murder is just silly. Same with proclaiming disgust for homosexuality.

One cannot be intolerant of intolerance.

 

[Shwenn]

Rape, murder, and child molestation disgust people and they proclaim their disgust quite regularly. To jump to the conclusion that proclaiming one's disgust for murder proves that person has a hidden desire to murder is just silly. Same with proclaiming disgust for homosexuality.

One cannot be intolerant of intolerance.

I feel that this is a false analogy. You are comparing acts inflicted upon unwilling participants to acts performed between consenting adults. What you are talking about are acts despised because of social contract.

I wouldn't want those things done to me against my will therefore I understand that doing them to others against thier will is wrong. By expressing disgust, I attempt to make those who would in engage in these acts ashamed of doing so. If they feel shame, those who would be victims may be protected from such acts.

There a very big point to proclaiming disgust about the acts you mention that doesn't apply to proclaiming disgust with homosexuality.

 

[scheherazade_79]

The horrible truth is that it's not political to express disgust or extreme dislike of anyone or anything these days.

The gay male sex thing doesn't float my boat for obvious reasons, but if someone really hates it that much, then fine - let them hate it. There's no law saying that everyone has to be 100% positive about everything all the time.

If someone announced that lesbian sex was "disgusting" (which I'm sure has already happened on countless occasions), then I'd shrug and think they either had unresolved lesbian issues of their own, or they were just an angry person in need of a target.

The problem is that if people are banned from verbalising certain sentiments it doesn't make the sentiment go away - instead it forces its way to the surface through alternative means, often physical.

 

[Shwenn]

The problem is that if people are banned from verbalising certain sentiments it doesn't make the sentiment go away - instead it forces its way to the surface through alternative means, often physical.

Nobody is talking about banning anybody. I have no interest in banning anybody from saying anything.

If a person expresses disgust with homosexuality, that is within their purview. I have no problem with that nor do I want to limit it.

However, once you make a statement in a public arena, it's out there. It is fodder for discussion. It is fair game.

And, let's be honest, if people were saying, "I can't stand niggers," the conversation about it would be far less civilized. We are far more tolerent of some forms of intolerence than we are of others. In fact, I think intolerance of Muslims is less acceptable than intolerance of gays and we're at war with a Muslim country. TWO muslim countries.

I actually happen to dislike Islam a great deal and am regularly called a racist for expressing that dislike. But my problem is only that they don't understand the difference between a religion and a race, not that they would probe my motives. They are free to probe my motives for making whatever claims I make about Islam because I made those claims in a public arena.

Homophobes are as free to be homophobic as they want to be. However, if they don't want us probing their homophobia, they need to keep it to themselves.

 

[scheherazade_79]

Homophobes are as free to be homophobic as they want to be. However, if they don't want us probing their homophobia, they need to keep it to themselves.

Maybe having their homophobia probed is their ultimate fantasy, and to deny them that basic human right would be cruelty beyond belief