Pyramid Redux

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

VETTEMAN got my curiosity perking about the Giza Pyramids, and I been doing some studying of the subject.

Turns out that way back yonder the Egyptians knew all about ox teams and wheels and other technology. I mean you just about cant walk about without falling over a rock column, and their geometry presupposes competency with circles and arcs and other aspects of the art. Plus oxen are seriously stronger (and smarter) than ragheads, dont take up as much space, and theyre a good brake for a heavy load.

A few brainiacs make an excellent point when they note that bazillions of ragheads need enormous resources and space to build a pyramid.

 

[Beco]

Some of the blocks weigh 80 tons, Oxen going to carry that load??

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Some of the blocks weigh 80 tons, Oxen going to carry that load??

It got up there somehow. People gonna carry that load??

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

I wonder why the Amish never built pyramids. Too showy, maybe.

 

[Beco]

It got up there somehow. People gonna carry that load??

how could they??

 

[1sickbastard]

VETTEMAN got my curiosity perking about the Giza Pyramids, and I been doing some studying of the subject.

Turns out that way back yonder the Egyptians knew all about ox teams and wheels and other technology. I mean you just about cant walk about without falling over a rock column, and their geometry presupposes competency with circles and arcs and other aspects of the art. Plus oxen are seriously stronger (and smarter) than ragheads, dont take up as much space, and theyre a good brake for a heavy load.

A few brainiacs make an excellent point when they note that bazillions of ragheads need enormous resources and space to build a pyramid.

Would these be the same 'ragheads' that developed the very same numbering system which is the current standard (they're still called Arabic numerals), algebra (Al Gebra) and the lanteen sail?

I wonder why the Amish never built pyramids. Too showy, maybe.

Definitely. Besides, it interferes with barn raising.

Some of the blocks weigh 80 tons, Oxen going to carry that load??

Multiple studies have shown, again and again, how a huge stone block placed on a sled and pulled over a series of rollers can be easily managed by teams using nothing more than muscle power and a few simple devices. Technology is not just about devices, it's about knowledge (the greek root techne means art, craft or skill). The three basic tools (lever, wheel and inclined plane) haven't changed and neither has the physics of load distribution. The coolest theory I've seen posits that the ancient Egyptians may have even used kites to help pull some of the loads.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Would these be the same 'ragheads' that developed the very same numbering system which is the current standard (they're still called Arabic numerals . . .

Becuase the Euros learned them from the Arabs; but, they were invented in India.

 

[koalabear]

It doesn't matter. Soon the Muslim Brotherhood will destroy all Egyptian artifacts, including the pyramids and sphinx.

 

[1sickbastard]

Becuase the Euros learned them from the Arabs; but, they were invented in India.

And, you're right. My mistake.

 

[Beco]

Multiple studies have shown, again and again, how a huge stone block placed on a sled and pulled over a series of rollers can be easily managed by teams using nothing more than muscle power and a few simple devices. Technology is not just about devices, it's about knowledge (the greek root techne means art, craft or skill). The three basic tools (lever, wheel and inclined plane) haven't changed and neither has the physics of load distribution. The coolest theory I've seen posits that the ancient Egyptians may have even used kites to help pull some of the loads.

Right, but where did that knowledge come from? they were just building the first cities, then they build one of the 7 wonders of the world, which some say, took over 20 years to build?

 

[1sickbastard]

It doesn't matter. Soon the Muslim Brotherhood will destroy all Egyptian artifacts, including the pyramids and sphinx.

Right, because they don't need the tourist dollars. I'm sure the Egyptian Army will just love trying to replace parts and equipment with faith and sand. That way, when they make another run at the IDF, they'll be so embarrassed the mobs will quite and complacent and not turn on them in bloody revolt (which the Army will then have to suppress with harsh language and stern looks).

 

[1sickbastard]

Right, but where did that knowledge come from? they were just building the first cities, then they build one of the 7 wonders of the world, which some say, took over 20 years to build?

It only takes a single intellect to significantly advance the state of the art. Or a single idea transmitted from another culture. In many cases, it's only a small intuitive leap based on accumulated knowledge. The Great Pyramids weren't the first built. A number of smaller pyramids where constructed for several generations before the larger ones.

And the Egyptians built cities well before undertaking the Pyramids.

Also, don't forget the organizational and architectural skill needed for an agricultural civilization based on irrigation and water control. These require a highly centralized bureaucracy and very structured divisions of labor, as well as a system for record keeping and a whole lot of long term planning.

In addition, building the Pyramids was an act of religious devotion. There's a whole lot of power in a people's faith.

 

[Beco]

It only takes a single intellect to significantly advance the state of the art. Or a single idea transmitted from another culture. In many cases, it's only a small intuitive leap based on accumulated knowledge. The Great Pyramids weren't the first built. A number of smaller pyramids where constructed for several generations before the larger ones.

And the Egyptians built cities well before undertaking the Pyramids.

Also, don't forget the organizational and architectural skill needed for an agricultural civilization based on irrigation and water control. These require a highly centralized bureaucracy and very structured divisions of labor, as well as a system for record keeping and a whole lot of long term planning.

In addition, building the Pyramids was an act of religious devotion. There's a whole lot of power in a people's faith.

They don't know WHY they built the pyramids, or why ever major civilization built the same structure all over the world, many, including the pyramids at Giza, requiring major mathematical accuracy, which I dont believe existed within their community. You're asking me to believe that because the Nile River flooded every year, from that they were able to construct a major undertaking that still stands today????

They still live in tents to this day...........I ain't buying it.

 

[1sickbastard]

They don't know WHY they built the pyramids, or why ever major civilization built the same structure all over the world, many, including the pyramids at Giza, requiring major mathematical accuracy, which I dont believe existed within their community. You're asking me to believe that because the Nile River flooded every year, from that they were able to construct a major undertaking that still stands today????

They still live in tents to this day...........I ain't buying it.

Pyramids are a basic geometric form, highly stable, and lend themselves easily to the use of very heavy construction materials. It's not like the four cardinal points of the compass, sunrise/sunset and right angles require heavy duty cognition or are/were unavailable to people all over the globe.

And the why has been long established; they were built as tombs (in the case of the Egyptians) and as centers of worship and administrative power (in the cases of the Sumerians, Aztecs, Olmecs, Mayans etc).

And yes, they still stand because stone is a very durable material. Baked clay bricks on less so (though brick structures collapse more easily that those made of nearly solid stone) and organic materials just decay.
It has been noted that the two earliest of the ancient 'high civilizations' (Sumerian and Egyptian) both had their agricultural surpluses based on irrigation control.

The tent dwellers of which you speak are pastoral nomads. And no, it wasn't unusual for nomads to interact with sedentary peoples who had the time and resources to build massive structures.

So whatever, if you need to subscribe to the hot-rods of the gods theory about aliens and such, nothing I'm going to say will convince you otherwise.

But modern humans have been on the planet for over (according to current theories) 100,000 years. Our written histories only go back 6,000 years. You can claim humans were just a bunch of barely evolved apes until some alien visitation made them smart.

But I ain't buying it.

 

[killallhippies]

just because you don't know the answer that doesn't mean the answer has to be the most ridiculous bunch of bullshit your tiny mind can think of so just shut about it already, you racist cunt.

 

[1sickbastard]

just because you don't know the answer that doesn't mean the answer has to be the most ridiculous bunch of bullshit your tiny mind can think of so just shut about it already, you racist cunt.

Now, now.
Beco and I were having a civilized discussion. Comments like this are not in any way helpful or productive.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Pyramids are a basic geometric form, highly stable, and lend themselves easily to the use of very heavy construction materials. It's not like the four cardinal points of the compass, sunrise/sunset and right angles require heavy duty cognition or are/were unavailable to people all over the globe.

And then there were the Mound Builders of North America -- the mounds (I've climbed the one at Cahokia) being essentially pyramids made of dirt, built by carrying it up one basket at a time.

 

[Beco]

just because you don't know the answer that doesn't mean the answer has to be the most ridiculous bunch of bullshit your tiny mind can think of so just shut about it already, you racist cunt.

why cant it be? Because you don't agree, its ridiculous?

 

[Beco]

Now, now.
Beco and I were having a civilized discussion. Comments like this are not in any way helpful or productive.

he wants to participate, let him be

 

[Beco]

And then there were the Mound Builders of North America -- the mounds (I've climbed the one at Cahokia) being essentially pyramids made of dirt, built by carrying it up one basket at a time.

love it!

 

[unregistered]

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

One thing that hasn't been shown is how they made those perfect cuts in stone that require a diamond blade and machine tools today.

They did lotsa impressive stuff that makes me think they had a bigger tool belt than we give them credit for.

 

[1sickbastard]

One thing that hasn't been shown is how they made those perfect cuts in stone that require a diamond blade and machine tools today.

Actually, it has. The stones were fitted by grinding them with other stones. It's a very simple, but very slow, very labor intensive process. Essentially, it relied on dedicated, skilled craftsmanship.

 

[1sickbastard]

They did lotsa impressive stuff that makes me think they had a bigger tool belt than we give them credit for.

The best tool belt is the mind.

This is my basic issue with theories of alien influence; it doesn't recognize the mental abilities of these ancient craftsmen nor the skills they developed.

 

[unregistered]