Pull mighty stallions! Show me no mercy!

[DonScorpio]

Hello lit editors,

I'm a new-ish literotican hoping to improve my writing. Specifically, I've come to refine my "method" by establishing a writing pattern that generates consistent output. Since this means producing regularly, I've been trying to submit first drafts to lit on a regular basis (one so far so...stay the course) so that they can be subject to the editorial process.

That's the other half of the equation. Given time to allow my feelings for a piece to cool so that I can edit it myself (it's hard to kill them yourself, those precious words you dug so deep for) I turn into the person who talks about writing more than actually creating something a person can read. I need to be able to take an editors critique and follow their instruction and shave weeks off the turnaround for the finished product.

I have a story that is a first draft up now.

 

[PennLady]

Don, you'd probably get a better response if:

* You put this in the story feedback forum. Editing is usually done before a story is posted.

* You put a link to the story in your post. That will make it easier for people to get to the story.

* You can also put a link in your signature. Go to the upper left of this screen and click on "User CP." This takes you to your user control panel where you can set various options. I'd still advise putting a link in your post, however, as some (like me) will not have signatures set to display.

If this is a first draft, then you'd probably be prepared for a lot of feedback pointing out any errors and perhaps advising you to get an editor before posting a story.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Hello lit editors,

I'm a new-ish literotican hoping to improve my writing. Specifically, I've come to refine my "method" by establishing a writing pattern that generates consistent output. Since this means producing regularly, I've been trying to submit first drafts to lit on a regular basis (one so far so...stay the course) so that they can be subject to the editorial process.

That's the other half of the equation. Given time to allow my feelings for a piece to cool so that I can edit it myself (it's hard to kill them yourself, those precious words you dug so deep for) I turn into the person who talks about writing more than actually creating something a person can read. I need to be able to take an editors critique and follow their instruction and shave weeks off the turnaround for the finished product.

I have a story that is a first draft up now.

Don,

I'm your man. And I'll have another. As long as it's not more than 5k words.

AS

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

Technically your story is pretty good. I only noticed one typo - "it's" where you needed "its". Your use of tenses was consistent (a major flaw of many writers) and you didn't assume the narrator knew what the others were thinking when writing in the first person (another common error). There was not enough elaboration of why all this happened, and at one point the narrator was at the front door when I didn't understand how or why - but that could be me.

The best advice I can offer is to remember that you know all these people and situations very well; they have been in your mind for months, or even years. The reader is meeting them for the first (and sometimes only) time, so spell it out.

 

[oggbashan]

One exercise for generating consistent output is to participate in the NaNoWriMo challenge later this year, to write 50,000 words in a month. This is the link to NaNoWriMo.

I wrote a How-To on completing NaNoWriMo.

 

[wave_cutter]

Review

I need to be able to take an editors critique and follow their instruction and shave weeks off the turnaround for the finished product.

I have a story that is a first draft up now.

I'm not sure you would want me to review it. For example, I can look over sr71's writing and find errors pretty easily but I'm not sure that most here would. With your story "I Love You Too" I'm tripping over errors in almost every sentence.

Some authors try to avoid stale writing by using unusual verb or descriptive forms. Sometimes these work and other times you just end up with the Glade effect where you replace a stale version with a flowery, artificial version.

For example: "He flipped the light switch on."

'flipped' is a common verb in this context. Let's say I decided to replace it with something else. Which of these would actually work?

He jabbed the light switch on.
<yes, a direct, quick movement that is probably more physical than necessary>

He stroked the light switch on.
<no, stroking is repetitive whereas this would only be done once>

He brushed the light switch on.
<yes, obviously this would be slower and more casual than typical >

He caressed the light switch on.
<Strictly speaking this would be correct. However in terms of situation it almost never would be. Caressing implies an unnecessary action since the switch is inanimate but since the room would be dark no one would see it. The character would have to be caressing the switch entirely for his own reasons. More commonly he would be doing this with someone else watching so he would probably be caressing the switch off rather than on.>

He pounded the light switch on.
<This would be unlikely but could work if the switch was of a type that had to be depressed rather flipped. This gesture would imply that he was using enough force to risk breaking the switch.>

He swatted the light switch on.
<This would be similar to jabbed but would imply a faster version of brushing. The main distinction is that jabbed is with the fingertips leading whereas swatted is with the fingertips trailing. Both imply a faster than typical gesture.>

Besides 'stroked' other Glade words would include drummed, hammered, punched, fingered, tweaked, and popped. Older light switches made a distinct noise when flipped so the verb 'snapped' was appropriate but not for modern light switches which have much weaker springs. In other words, choosing a less common word can make your writing fresher but choosing the wrong word can make it artificial.

Words in your story like intoned, dispatched, and forecasting seem to fit this category.

Other words just seem to be used incorrectly.

her kids -- does this mean that they are his step children?

Halo -- her hair would need to be back-lit for this. A porch light would probably be above rather than behind her.

colorless navy blue -- It obviously can't both be a color and colorless.

low-hanging skirts -- to me this is a really odd description. Generally this would imply something that was hung too low rather than so long that the bottom was near the ground.

Led -- he can't lead her if he stays behind to close the door.

Gently curved -- I'm not sure what this means. Does she have only slight hips? This is an unnecessarily roundabout way of trying to describe her.

like high-schoolers -- I don't think so; this is not at all common among kids in high school. I assume you mean teen lovers or high school lovers.

Cabernet from my own collection -- first of all from the position in the sentence it seems to refer to the cigar rather than the wine. Secondly, Cabernet Sauvignon is common rather than something that would be specially collected. But if this is a rare wine then why is it in his living room instead of in a wine cellar?

music to accompany it -- to accompany what? The wine, the surprise, his birthday?

staccato clap -- are they tap dancing? A normal walk would not be staccato.

softer impression -- are they leaving dents in the floor?

different tone -- I'm sorry but I don't know what a shoe tone is. I assume you are trying to say that the red heels were either dressier or sexier than the rest of her clothes. However, you specifically say 'tight jeans" so I assume you meant more dressy.

Knowingly, I look over to my wife, who winks back at me -- I have no idea what it is that he knows. There is no indication of this that I can see.

tugging herself towards me -- tugging against what? Does she have a rope tied to her?

folds of her throat -- what folds?

You also have a shifting tense. You incorrectly switch from past to present tense and back again. I can't see any reason why it wouldn't stay past tense. For example:

Madeline pulls back -- pulled
Cassie looks at me -- looked
It jumps a few times -- jumped

You have strange positional shifts with no transition. For example:

The main character never actually sits down. He magically goes from standing to sitting somewhere.

Cassie said as she came up behind me -> Cassie said from the shadows
<does this mean that the main character is sitting in the shadows? probably not since later Cassie steps out of the shadows whereas the main character has not moved. Since there was no mention of turning out lights I can't imagine how there would be any shadows in the dining room. Perhaps it is suggested that the dining room was only lit by candle light but that would also mean that he would be trying to look through his records by candle light which would not make sense.>

Madeline immediately slowed down, peeling her jeans away from her hips <standing obviously>
across Madeline's face as she crawled out of her jeans <now she's on all fours?>

Madeline coughs slightly as she slides my cock from her throat, a runnel of saliva strung between us like garland. <Madeline hasn't stood up here so her head must be barely above his lap>
Looking and smiling up at the two of us, Cassie reaches down and wipes the glistening remnant away with the back of one finger before placing one leg over me <so Cassie is below Madeline yet she has to reach down further to reach his lap. Then magically she is standing to straddle him>

You have odd situations. For example:

Cassie said, the hard edge in her voice could be taken as either a command or anger. I was used to it, familiar with Cassie's games and the roles she liked to play
<This seems out of place to me since it is only mentioned in this single paragraph. I think the scene would work about the same if Cassie began undressing her.>

I was suddenly aware of my smoking jacket
<This seems out of place to me since Madeline is undressing in front of him. This would make more sense if he were the only one barely covered and had no expectation of intimacy.>

dispatched me to the dining room, where candles and wine were waiting for me.
<this is stated as though it is new information, yet>
When I noticed the candles flickering from the top of the stairs, I dutifully put the Carson file away and came down the staircase.
<so he already knew about the candles. However, I am puzzled that the stairs would lead to the dining room. On the other hand if the stairs lead to the living room then how could he have seen the candles?>

I think the order of events might be more clear if the story started with the main character upstairs rather than answering the door and trying to fill in this information later. These are just a few things I found from a quick look at your story.

In terms of erotica itself there is to me a big problem of plot development. It is suggested very early in the story that there is the expectation of intimacy (tight sweater, tight jeans, wife's hands on Madeline's ass). I would think it would make more sense to leave this in doubt until further in the story. This would give time for the main character to be attracted to Madeline and to feel uncomfortable or perhaps to be caught in a compromising position without knowing what was going on.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm not sure you would want me to review it. For example, I can look over sr71's writing and find errors pretty easily

Sure there still are errors in my copy even after it's been professionally edited (which my stories here are--by someone other than me--by commercial fiction style, which isn't much like what they teach in high school or even college English)--that's the way it is with everyone. But are you actually a trained mainstream fiction editor? If not, you're blowing inexperienced smoke like so many do. Quite likely you don't have a clue about what is an error in commercial fiction and what isn't. Feel free to PM me with your verifiable mainstream editor credentials. (My credentials are on file with the site; are yours?) Barring that, you're just another "let's pretend" high school English graduate. I'm beyond tired of this backbiting shit by amateur, self-proclaimed writing "experts."

(And I would hope that anyone who signed up for you as an editor here would think enough of their effort to get a second opinion on your edit to check out whether or not you were just another half-baked hack. There are a whole bunch of those here.)

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Sure there still are errors in my copy even after it's been professionally edited (which my stories here are)--that's the way it is with everyone. But are you actually a trained mainstream fiction editor? If not, you're blowing inexperienced smoke like so many do. Feel free to PM me with your verifiable mainstream editor credentials. (My credentials are on file with the site; are yours?) Barring that, you're just another "let's pretend" high school English graduate. I'm beyond tired of this shit.

(And I would hope that anyone who signed up for you as an editor here would think enough of their effort to get a second opinion on your edit to check out whether or not you were just another half-baked hack. There are a whole bunch of those here.)

Welcome back. The tranquility has been very welcome but somewhat eerie.

Good to have the rottweiler back and baying for blood.

 

[wave_cutter]

Sure there still are errors in my copy even after it's been professionally edited (which my stories here are)--that's the way it is with everyone.

I haven't read any of your stories here. I was referring to the excerpts of your books under the pseudonym Habu. I was somewhat surprised to see the name. My late spouse was in the Air Force and told me that in some country the natives referred to the SR-71 as Habu which meant 'black snake' as I recall. Since that was the only time I've ever heard that it was interesting to come across it again.

But are you actually a trained mainstream fiction editor? If not, you're blowing inexperienced smoke like so many do. Feel free to PM me with your verifiable mainstream editor credentials. (My credentials are on file with the site; are yours?) Barring that, you're just another "let's pretend" high school English graduate.

Yes, that must be it. I probably only had the minimum requirement of three semesters of High School English and three semesters of Literature.

I'm beyond tired of this shit.

I noticed that you did not bother to disagree with any specific point that I mentioned. If your level of writing is so much beyond mine then that should be easy for you to do.

(And I would hope that anyone who signed up for you as an editor here would think enough of their effort to get a second opinion on your edit to check out whether or not you were just another half-baked hack. There are a whole bunch of those here.)

I could be a quarter baked hack. However, my name is not in the list of editors. But, since you are commenting perhaps you could answer some questions about your writing. This is just my opinion of course based on the excerpts.

You seem to write somewhat briefly so I would guess that you end up with novella length rather than typical novel length stories.

I've read several excerpts where you end a sentence that already contains a conjunction and then begin the next sentence with a second conjunction. I assume you do this to avoid having a long sentence. This seems to be much more common in your writing than one would typically find.

There seems to be at least some element of formulaic writing. For example:

"Man's Man"
But then I was so narcissistic in those days

"The Indian Doctor"
I suppose I was more narcissistic in my youth and early adulthood


However, my main observation is that you seem to really hold back in your writing. For example:

I said nothing. It was not the least immodest or unrealistic for me to know that we were worlds apart in surface sex appeal, and I didn’t want him to have second thoughts and to flee the room.

To me, this begs for more description. What's it like for him being very desirable? What would be the contrast? Places like this where it seems that you could give more detail and get more into the background of the characters is what I notice most. I've wondered if you are writing briefly because you need to turn out books for a deadline or if you are trying to avoid getting too much into the characters or if this just doesn't occur to you. To me it would make a difference but I can't claim to be an expert in this genre.

Another example:

I barely could contain my tears at what Ian was giving me—and what it was costing him to do so.

What I'm missing here is a genuine depth of emotion. Is he feeling intense love for Ian? If he is then how does it feel, what is he thinking? Being near tears seems much too brief a description to me. To me more feeling would make a difference but again I am not an expert in this genre.

 

[sr71plt]

Yes, that must be it. I probably only had the minimum requirement of three semesters of High School English and three semesters of Literature.

I can easily believe that. I can also believe you think that's enough to be telling other folks how they should write.

If your level of writing is so much beyond mine then that should be easy for you to do.

That's easy for someone to say who isn't showing any of his/her writing. Point out, though, where I have said a damn thing about your level of writing (not knowing what it is--I was referring to your editorial comment. Writing and editing are two separate issues). Try to remember that this exchange is based on you having backbitten me, not on me saying anything about your writing.

I could be a quarter baked hack. However, my name is not in the list of editors.

Neither is mine, although I've edited for some writers with work on Literotica.

The question though is why you went out of your way to backbite me? You see me as some sort of standard here to attack to establish yourself as something special without putting in the work to evidence it, I take it?

I've read several excerpts where you end a sentence that already contains a conjunction and then begin the next sentence with a second conjunction. I assume you do this to avoid having a long sentence. This seems to be much more common in your writing than one would typically find.

As I thought, you show you are clueless about commerical fiction. Yes it's quite all right to start a sentence with a conjunction--and the next sentence too if it contributes to the rhythm of the piece. Commerical fiction is much looser and more conversational than you were taught in those high school English classes you are steaming along on.

"Man's Man"
But then I was so narcissistic in those days

"The Indian Doctor"
I suppose I was more narcissistic in my youth and early adulthood

I have published some 100 erotica works. What a surprise that similar sentences pop up in them now and again.

However, my main observation is that you seem to really hold back in your writing.

First, you reach this sweeping conclusion upon reading a few excerpts from my published work? Aren't you a gem?

But, yes, Sometimes some of my work purposely is bloodless (to match the mood of the piece I'm writing). That was what I was going for in that work. More often, reviewers comment on the deep emotion I pull out of my work (Go to Goodreads, for instance, and read a review there on habu's Home to Fire Island). It's called technique and story variety. Have you read Dark Angel Sounding? You think I held back on that? (Most of the rest of those who have commented on it don't think so.) I think the most frequent review statement I get is that I write porn, one heavy sex scene after the other with minimal plot holding it together. That comment is from folks, like you, who haven't read across the board on my work.

Some of it is pretty straight porn, though, and meant to be. I wrote it because I wanted porn rolling over me at that moment. Not what you'd think of as holding back on anything. It's called variety. To anyone who did read a variety of what I write, though, and said I wrote literary porn, I'd say "Bingo" and "Thanks for seeing it." (Not in everything I write, but it's exactly what I'm striving for in the pen names habu, sr71plt, Dirk Hessian and in the coauthored Stephen Kessel, and shabbu.)

Further, if you think all would agree with your charge that I don't write with depth, just as another example (I have reviews. Do you?), just go up to the thread on author's books at the top of the AH, and look at the review given to Dirk Hessian's Constantinople (post #1658). You're just being a pissant backbiter with that charge.

And, yes, I write a lot of novellas as e-books. For one, they are a fun length to write and they aren't cost effective in the print realm. For another, they are ideal for screen reading--and sell well.

I fail to see that as a negative point. I'm writing to the market. I write full-length novels in my mainstream pen names--which is a different market.

I also have novel-length works among the 100 or so erotica titles I have in the e-book realm--some that go as high as 220,000 words, another length that can be done in e-books and that is not possible/cost effective in print.

As for your comments beyond that, if you don't like my writing, do your own writing (you haven't established that you do your own writing, or that any of it that you do write is any good). That's one motivation for my writing--I wasn't seeing in published erotica what I wanted to read myself.

And as long as you are paying for those e-books of mine you are finding dissatisfactory, that's fine with me. Sort of marks you as a chump, though, to keep buying and reading what you profess is deficient.

You must have a lot invested in me to have begun a critique that has nothing to do with me by backbiting me out of the blue.

And this is all I think necessary for this little back and forth. Go find someone else to backbite to make yourself feel adequate.

 

[sr71plt]

This begs the question, of course, of who is cowardly hiding behind this "wave_cutter" alt (first post out of the gate: Right!). Obviously someone who just can't let their attacking rest. I'm sure it must be jealousy. It's pretty sicko, whatever else it is.

 

[lovecraft68]

You know, I for one never pretend to have any editing abilities whatsoever and will freely admit to being grammar impaired.

So some of the things Mr Waves is accusing Pilot of, I have no idea if its mistakes or not.

But I want to touch upon the point of him being formulaic because he uses the same turn of expression sometimes.

First off, we as authors, do tend to fall in love with certain wordage, I see it when I go back and read my stuff that I use the same phrases in each story.

But more importantly when you have written the sheer volume of work that Pilot has written how can you not repeat yourself?

Are you such a mighty wordsmith that you don't do it?

And honestly as a reader I kind of find it fun if the author has that same turn of expression, its like those Stan Lee cameos in the Marvel movies, you see it and its like "hey there he is"

Maybe its just called style.

Anyway, enjoy an argument that won't ever end.

 

[_Lynn_]

You know, I for one never pretend to have any editing abilities whatsoever and will freely admit to being grammar impaired.

So some of the things Mr Waves is accusing Pilot of, I have no idea if its mistakes or not.

But I want to touch upon the point of him being formulaic because he uses the same turn of expression sometimes.

First off, we as authors, do tend to fall in love with certain wordage, I see it when I go back and read my stuff that I use the same phrases in each story.

But more importantly when you have written the sheer volume of work that Pilot has written how can you not repeat yourself?

Are you such a mighty wordsmith that you don't do it?

And honestly as a reader I kind of find it fun if the author has that same turn of expression, its like those Stan Lee cameos in the Marvel movies, you see it and its like "hey there he is"

Maybe its just called style.

Anyway, enjoy an argument that won't ever end.

Right. I think we have favorites, or words that we're comfortable with, words that are in our vocabulary. I don't think an author is going to look through the dictionary each time he or she writes a story to find something new. That would take forever. And I don't think anyone is going to keep a list of phrases used so they don't repeat anything.

 

[sr71plt]

I might add that authors do tend to have a few common underlying themes and philosophies that they explore in multiple stories. These usually come with a set vocabulary that will play over and over again.

Also, some phrases are used on purpose to alert regular readers to this or that. An example of that with me is the phrase used for the title used on habu's latest-released anthology (announced recently on the author's works thread on the AH). The phrase "beyond the beaded curtain" is one I use frequently--both by phrase and in a visual--for that first gay sex experience that brings a reluctant/questioning/curious man across the "no return" line of having engaged in gay male sex. The title of the anthology alerts my regular readers that this is a book of first time gay male experiences.

And yes, I use narcissism (having to check the spelling in the dictionary each time) occasionally (noting this because Wave specifically mentioned the use of this word) in books. It plays the theory that many men are so taken with their own looks and body perfection (e.g, the guys who live in the gym) that they are open to homosexual relations with the sensation/emotion that sex with another man (particularly another beautiful man) represents the other guy worships their body as much as they do--and wants to merge with it. It's a compliment that plays narcissism to the hilt.

My characters often aren't into sex for the physical pleasure (which is more than a bit overrated) as much as for the emotional "high" of someone wanting to be inside them--worshiping their body by possessing it as fully as they can. That too is a recurring theme in my stories.

This is hardly evidence of shallow context, though. Just the opposite, I think.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

Welcome back. The tranquility has been very welcome but somewhat eerie.

Good to have the rottweiler back and baying for blood.

I disagree. The tranquility was lovely. I miss it now it has proved to be a false dawn of an age of reason.