Titania1616
Literotica Guru
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- Jun 27, 2002
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- 593
peachykeen said:
*and the cheerleading section gives a standing ovation!
*
*and the cheerleading section gives a standing ovation!
*That's the spirit. Fuck the children. Let's keep this political.
It IS a pity that the good, competent, dedicated teachers are taking the brunt of years of political kingdom making by the boards and unions ... and you're right. Parents should be more involved and know what's going on. Parents and universities should have put a stop to the insane social experiment decades ago. They didn't. The average parent actually thinks kids are being taught more today than when they went to school. Sadly by the time the find out the truth it's too late. As testing and other forms of competency evaluations come back in vogue it will be more and more obvious that we must get back to the basics first because without the basics kids can NEVER achieve their potential.
It's interesting that first you admit that there are huge problems but then claim you're fucking great and I should piss off/drop the subject/go away.
Which is it and which attitude/discussion is going to end up helping the kids get a good education?
It IS a pity that the good, competent, dedicated teachers are taking the brunt of years of political kingdom making by the boards and unions ... and you're right. Parents should be more involved and know what's going on. Parents and universities should have put a stop to the insane social experiment decades ago. They didn't. The average parent actually thinks kids are being taught more today than when they went to school. Sadly by the time the find out the truth it's too late. As testing and other forms of competency evaluations come back in vogue it will be more and more obvious that we must get back to the basics first because without the basics kids can NEVER achieve their potential.
It's interesting that first you admit that there are huge problems but then claim you're fucking great and I should piss off/drop the subject/go away.
Which is it and which attitude/discussion is going to end up helping the kids get a good education?
~tehya~
Really Experienced
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- Oct 27, 2001
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MR.GGG said:
Ummm i want to live where you do because i would LOVE to make $65,000 a year!! And do you realize how much timw a teacher puts in every day, plus weekends, plus this supposed "time off" during the summer? i can't tell you how many nights and weekends i know i will be working just to keep ahead of eveything.
Yeah, we get three months when we don't have to work, but do we get paid for those three months? NO! We have to go find another job for that time if we want additional income.
As far as what we are being paid to do, we are being paid to teach children. i know i personally went through hell this past year to get my teaching credential in order to share my love of learning with my students. But how are we supposed to do this when we have administrators wanting us to teach to the test, parents who have no involment in their children's education, parents who cannot understand why their child is failing and thinks it is the teachers fault (even though the student has not turned in half the assignments)? And then there are people in the world who just think of us as glorified baby-sitters, there to look after their children and maybe teach them a thing here and there. This is why it is so difficult to teach today.
And another thing!! (Sorry, but i'm on an emotional roller coaster right now.) We as teachers are not only expected to teach children the basics, but also manners, socially acceptable behavior, morals, and many other things that should be taught at home. When we have to take time to teach our students these things we are taking time away from the teaching of the essentials. If parents took the time to teach these concepts at home teachers would not have to.
i am not asking parents to teach their children reading and math before they are sent to school, but how about the alphabet, the numbers, shapes, colors. i know many children who come to school without these basic building blocks. Are we as teachers expected to teach them these basics as well?
i get so damn frustrated when people think that a teacher's job is so easy. Have you ever sat down and really thought about what a teacher does every day, what a teacher is responsible for. If not maybe you should try it once.
peachykeen
bootie shaker
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Mr G I was telling you to gt off my ass because you said I was ridiculous for expecting parents to give a shit about who is on their school board. How dare you say snidely to me 'fuck the children' and insinuate I have anything on my agenda other than making their education my highest priority. When I lived in the US I taught in Newark NJ in the shittiest fucking crack infested neighborhoods and some days after school I would have to put my head down on the desk and cry becasue I was so worried for these kids and all the fucking bullshit they have to deal with every single day of their lives, shit I cannot possibly hope to protect them from but maybe, just maybe, for a few hours each day I could provide them with an oasis where they could feel valuable, capable, and cared for. Any idea what it's like to have to make a call to children's services because you think one of the 7 year olds in your care was burned on the legs intentionally by her mother's boyfriend? Any idea what it's like to have to look into the faces of these beautiful perfect little beings and wonder which of them will be in jail or pregnant by the time their 16? You can sit on a BB and type away all you like. I'm in the trenches, buddy.
peachykeen
bootie shaker
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spelling/grammar correction: ...by the time they're 16...
sorry got little excited there but you cannot imagine how passionate I am about this.
sorry got little excited there but you cannot imagine how passionate I am about this.
Native Alien
Miss No Tact
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just my opinion
but i think that ya'll are comparing two very different things.
mr.ggg i have never attended school in canada, but here in ohio, it is very different than what my friends who live in canada describe to me. our teachers here are not paid near that much and they are in danger everyday. i, for one, admire their willingness to lay everything on the line for a job that i wouldn't take in a million years.
their stress level rates right up there with the police and all emergency services workers. in alot of the bigger cities they are literally taking their lives in their own hands everyday to do a job that everyone bitches at them about.
and should a child fail, they are the ones that everyone else always blames.
Teachers, you have my respect and admiration, and i wouldn't have your job for all the money in the world. it takes a special breed to do what you do and for that i thank you one and all.
(steps off soapbox and exits thread)
but i think that ya'll are comparing two very different things.
mr.ggg i have never attended school in canada, but here in ohio, it is very different than what my friends who live in canada describe to me. our teachers here are not paid near that much and they are in danger everyday. i, for one, admire their willingness to lay everything on the line for a job that i wouldn't take in a million years.
their stress level rates right up there with the police and all emergency services workers. in alot of the bigger cities they are literally taking their lives in their own hands everyday to do a job that everyone bitches at them about.
and should a child fail, they are the ones that everyone else always blames.
Teachers, you have my respect and admiration, and i wouldn't have your job for all the money in the world. it takes a special breed to do what you do and for that i thank you one and all.
(steps off soapbox and exits thread)
Cear up a couple of things. A senior teacher can make $65K here. Our Government "relieves" them of 50% + of that and the CanuckBuck is worth on a bad day, 63¢ so a $65 salary is around $40US minus taxes. Ask the members of the board how many would feel hard done by making $40++ US and get every summer off. You're NOT going to get a whole bunch of sympathy on that one.
Stress levels are cllose to impossible to compare. It is so individually subjective. Police, Fire, EMS etc have life and death decisions daily. MOST teachers would like us to believe THEIR stress levels are the highest anywhere however university stress testing proves their blood enzymes don't come close to those other jobs mentioned.
In the trenches? Again you're assuming that anybody on this board has never experienced the job/social stress that a teacher faces. Wrongo. I was a cop for waaay too many years. Granted some schools are gang warfare zones but I was the schmuck in the alley at 2AM trying to hold the intestines of one of your students off the ground waiting for an EMS team and wondering whether the zonked-out kid would bury a shiv in my liver for my efforts. I've cried more than once too at the utterhoplessness of some of those lives out there so if you think your job in NJ was a trench, I was in an open pit mine.
Never said teaching was easy. What job is today? You're either overworked by an incompetent asshole of a boss or you survive coma like in a no brainer, dead end job. A tiny % of people in polls claim to have challenging, satisfying jobs. Teachers have major challenges in their jobs too. So? Welcome to the world. What else is new?
What DOES bug the hell out of me is the attempts by teachers, Boards and unions to maintain the status quo when all evidence points to a MASSIVE dumbing down of the education system over the last few decades. Our entire way of life is at stake if our children can not grow up being able to compete on a global basis. Standardized (and not dumbed down) math and literacy tests show appalling scores in MOST systems. As the article stated, students here routinely score in the bottom few percentiles when compared to other countries. That, dear friends, is the death knell of a civilization. By attempting to maintain the status quo or saying I'm fucking great (so presumably the rest of the HUGE problem doesn't count? What?) all you're doing is avoiding the issues. I'm not trying to insult individuals here. I'm saying there's MAJOR problem that needs, desperately, to be addressed and FIXED. Sticking our heads in the sand and claiming everything is fine is the first hurdle in coming up with the fixes.
Stress levels are cllose to impossible to compare. It is so individually subjective. Police, Fire, EMS etc have life and death decisions daily. MOST teachers would like us to believe THEIR stress levels are the highest anywhere however university stress testing proves their blood enzymes don't come close to those other jobs mentioned.
In the trenches? Again you're assuming that anybody on this board has never experienced the job/social stress that a teacher faces. Wrongo. I was a cop for waaay too many years. Granted some schools are gang warfare zones but I was the schmuck in the alley at 2AM trying to hold the intestines of one of your students off the ground waiting for an EMS team and wondering whether the zonked-out kid would bury a shiv in my liver for my efforts. I've cried more than once too at the utterhoplessness of some of those lives out there so if you think your job in NJ was a trench, I was in an open pit mine.
Never said teaching was easy. What job is today? You're either overworked by an incompetent asshole of a boss or you survive coma like in a no brainer, dead end job. A tiny % of people in polls claim to have challenging, satisfying jobs. Teachers have major challenges in their jobs too. So? Welcome to the world. What else is new?
What DOES bug the hell out of me is the attempts by teachers, Boards and unions to maintain the status quo when all evidence points to a MASSIVE dumbing down of the education system over the last few decades. Our entire way of life is at stake if our children can not grow up being able to compete on a global basis. Standardized (and not dumbed down) math and literacy tests show appalling scores in MOST systems. As the article stated, students here routinely score in the bottom few percentiles when compared to other countries. That, dear friends, is the death knell of a civilization. By attempting to maintain the status quo or saying I'm fucking great (so presumably the rest of the HUGE problem doesn't count? What?) all you're doing is avoiding the issues. I'm not trying to insult individuals here. I'm saying there's MAJOR problem that needs, desperately, to be addressed and FIXED. Sticking our heads in the sand and claiming everything is fine is the first hurdle in coming up with the fixes.
peachykeen
bootie shaker
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Truce, Mr g. I never said your points weren't valid. But parents who do not get involved with their kid's education are the ones sticking their heads in the sand. How on earth could you find out "too late" that your kid can't read unless you've never bothered to find out? Most of the teachers I've worked with are doing the very best with what they've got to work with. Want to blame administrators? Fine. But lay off teachers. We get enough crap. We don't do it for the money, you know.
Truce. Discussion is good tho.
Stats show fewer than 1 in 5 parenst know what their kid's are taking in school. That's pretty dreadful. It was proven somewhat a few years back in Ontario though. The teachers/boards/unions were having a major battle with the gov't. and threatened to go out on strike. The parents were alost 100% behind the teachers. They had accepted without verification many of the claims made by the unions and boards against the gov't.
When the teachers did start a strike it caused some grief cause so many parents had to rely on day care and grandparents looking after the kiddies while MA&PA were at work. In the case of the grandparents almost all of them suggested, for the good of the kids, that they'd continue with lessons and asked the kids to get their work and text books. The kids explained that they didn't have any textbooks. They hadn't used text books in classes for 15 years at least. Gramps wanted to see the workbooks and when the kids presented the mispelled chicken scrawl outlining their thoughts and feelings for the day, the grandparenst started to catch on. Within a week or so of the start of the strike grandparents were telling their children that their grandchildren didn't know ANYTHING. No Geography. No History. Without a calculator they could add let alone divide or multiply. Their writing was atrocious and was mostly indecipherable. When given a simple story book to read many of them couldn't even read simple sentences.
People who aren't aware of the situation at this point are probably thinking, "So what? The kid was a little slow for grade 1 or two." Nyet! These were kids in grades 5 and 7. I heard complaints about kids in grade 10!
When some of this was exposed during the strike they blamed the cutbacks of the government even though they had been in power less than a year and the kids some of them had been going to school for 10 years. A lot of times parents accepted the explanation of the teachers. Hey, there's no accounting for DUMB.
OK, that takes care of the parents. They are useless most of them. Sad fact but it likely won't change. HOW does one force change on a system where the majority of taxpayers don't know how bad the problem really is? The universities wn't say much because they are funded (in Canada) per enrolled student. They don't care how many crash and burn in the first few months or never actually gtraduate. THAT's a major problem too. How do you teach when the kids have "rights" and that means discipline is a JOKE? How do you teach when the avg. kid is sucking back 7 to 10 pops in a day - have more caffiene and sugar in their bloodstream than a cross-country trucker on his 5th night out!
OK now to the question I am having trouble with. WHY are the teachers the most outspoken proponents of the theory that the system is GREAT, we are GREAT and there is NO problem? Hard enough to facilitate changes in the other problem areas. How can we get anywhere when the teachers themselves for the most part (when have you heard of press conference BY teachers claiming that the education system is a failure and many kids are being graduated even tho they're ILLITERATE??) are the loudest defenders of the status quo? Huh?
Stats show fewer than 1 in 5 parenst know what their kid's are taking in school. That's pretty dreadful. It was proven somewhat a few years back in Ontario though. The teachers/boards/unions were having a major battle with the gov't. and threatened to go out on strike. The parents were alost 100% behind the teachers. They had accepted without verification many of the claims made by the unions and boards against the gov't.
When the teachers did start a strike it caused some grief cause so many parents had to rely on day care and grandparents looking after the kiddies while MA&PA were at work. In the case of the grandparents almost all of them suggested, for the good of the kids, that they'd continue with lessons and asked the kids to get their work and text books. The kids explained that they didn't have any textbooks. They hadn't used text books in classes for 15 years at least. Gramps wanted to see the workbooks and when the kids presented the mispelled chicken scrawl outlining their thoughts and feelings for the day, the grandparenst started to catch on. Within a week or so of the start of the strike grandparents were telling their children that their grandchildren didn't know ANYTHING. No Geography. No History. Without a calculator they could add let alone divide or multiply. Their writing was atrocious and was mostly indecipherable. When given a simple story book to read many of them couldn't even read simple sentences.
People who aren't aware of the situation at this point are probably thinking, "So what? The kid was a little slow for grade 1 or two." Nyet! These were kids in grades 5 and 7. I heard complaints about kids in grade 10!
When some of this was exposed during the strike they blamed the cutbacks of the government even though they had been in power less than a year and the kids some of them had been going to school for 10 years. A lot of times parents accepted the explanation of the teachers. Hey, there's no accounting for DUMB.
OK, that takes care of the parents. They are useless most of them. Sad fact but it likely won't change. HOW does one force change on a system where the majority of taxpayers don't know how bad the problem really is? The universities wn't say much because they are funded (in Canada) per enrolled student. They don't care how many crash and burn in the first few months or never actually gtraduate. THAT's a major problem too. How do you teach when the kids have "rights" and that means discipline is a JOKE? How do you teach when the avg. kid is sucking back 7 to 10 pops in a day - have more caffiene and sugar in their bloodstream than a cross-country trucker on his 5th night out!
OK now to the question I am having trouble with. WHY are the teachers the most outspoken proponents of the theory that the system is GREAT, we are GREAT and there is NO problem? Hard enough to facilitate changes in the other problem areas. How can we get anywhere when the teachers themselves for the most part (when have you heard of press conference BY teachers claiming that the education system is a failure and many kids are being graduated even tho they're ILLITERATE??) are the loudest defenders of the status quo? Huh?
peachykeen
bootie shaker
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2002
- Posts
- 9,194
ach I am just too bloody sick of this. Fine, you win, the world is going to hell and it's all teachers' fault because we're just so incompetent and lazy. Now let's all go beat up on some nurses; I reckon their job isn't shitty and thankless enough either.
~tehya~
Really Experienced
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2001
- Posts
- 163
MR.GGG said:
i don't think that i have ever said that the system is great and doesn't need changing. In fact i believe that there are many changes that should take place in our public education system. For one teachers should be allowed to teach the way we know is best. We have gone through a year or more of learning theories and practices and many times end up in a district that mandates how subject matter should be taught. What is the point of our extra schooling if we are not allowed to apply it in our classrooms?
So i will be trying to make changes where i live through my union, yes my union, and through going to board meetings and being on committees. That is what i can do to try to change how things work. Holding a press conference is not going to help anyone.
i am not a defender of the status quo, just because you may not hear my fight does not mean that i am not fighting to change the system.
pinklipstick
Really Experienced
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- Jul 8, 2002
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Isn't there a saying, "Walk a mile in my shoes....."?
G
Guest
Guest
I can't piece together a word of your corrupt American English.
warpedntwisted
Really Really Experienced
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2002
- Posts
- 459
fish or foul?
I do hope we have been had by a jester, however, I fear not.
My parents, teachers in four decades, witnessed the decline of public education from the front lines; The ever more crowded, underfunded, decaying classrooms of the Philly school system. I watched it destroy my mother, a teacher of the old school, the combination of the ills of an antiquated system and the turmoil of the social and cultural changes just to much to assimilate. My father went on to become an adviser to the presidents commission on secondary education, and from '68 to '70 wandered around the country, observing and forming the content of a two hundred thousand word report that essentially suggested the shutting down of a dozen of the largest systems in the country for a year, in order to facillitate the restructuring of those deemed beyond meaningful salvation. Only one city, Balto,Md implemented this course of action, and did so without help or recognition from the feds. This was the start of the collapse of public education in this country, and we are reaping the bounty of neglect, these thirty years on.
By the way, Balto. Md went from one of the worst public systems to one of the best in a matter of 5 years, and gained international recognition and acclaim as a leader in public ed.
I do hope we have been had by a jester, however, I fear not.
My parents, teachers in four decades, witnessed the decline of public education from the front lines; The ever more crowded, underfunded, decaying classrooms of the Philly school system. I watched it destroy my mother, a teacher of the old school, the combination of the ills of an antiquated system and the turmoil of the social and cultural changes just to much to assimilate. My father went on to become an adviser to the presidents commission on secondary education, and from '68 to '70 wandered around the country, observing and forming the content of a two hundred thousand word report that essentially suggested the shutting down of a dozen of the largest systems in the country for a year, in order to facillitate the restructuring of those deemed beyond meaningful salvation. Only one city, Balto,Md implemented this course of action, and did so without help or recognition from the feds. This was the start of the collapse of public education in this country, and we are reaping the bounty of neglect, these thirty years on.
By the way, Balto. Md went from one of the worst public systems to one of the best in a matter of 5 years, and gained international recognition and acclaim as a leader in public ed.
warpedntwisted
Really Really Experienced
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2002
- Posts
- 459
christ, Let the poor thing die a natural death
oy veyes mere, enough allready!!Lets talk about something of substance, with moral and social implications, like who gives the best bj's, or how many strokes per min is optimum, or the like!!!:L-)))
oy veyes mere, enough allready!!Lets talk about something of substance, with moral and social implications, like who gives the best bj's, or how many strokes per min is optimum, or the like!!!:L-)))
There are many examples of boards and individual teachers going against the norm and teaching the basics. It is NOT beyond hope. It is beyond hope if the people most representative of the education system - the teachers - are the chief front-line propagandists in the war against the truth. The truth is our education system has been trashed for the last 30 years. Kids are NOT being taught the basics. They are finding it harder and harder and more hopeless dealing with modren life. Industry and business in general are suffering because of it. The Fed. Dept of Commerce says there are losses in productivity of 100 BILLIOn dollars a year now - all a direct result of illiteracy in the workplace. They suggest industry take on the task of teaching their employees how to read and write. Can one of you "concerned" and dedicated teachers out there explain just what the F you guys are teaching if your own Dept. of Commerce comes out with that suggestion?
Here's some more great reading...just more examples of how our boards and teachers are failing our children.
http://www.shopnetdaily.com/store/item.asp?ID=42&ITEM_ID=33
http://www.massnews.com/2002_editions/Print_editions/09_Sept/0902_bilingual_education.shtml
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28779
Here's some more great reading...just more examples of how our boards and teachers are failing our children.
http://www.shopnetdaily.com/store/item.asp?ID=42&ITEM_ID=33
http://www.massnews.com/2002_editions/Print_editions/09_Sept/0902_bilingual_education.shtml
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28779
