Publishing

[darthjser]

Hi everyone,

I write poetry of many kinds and would want to publish a book of poetry.

Recently I became aware of this thing called chapbooks contest. One gets a cash prize for it that is not much and some books if one wins.
The part that I am uncomfortable with is: Royalty fees.
There are no royalty fees to the author.

My question is this: If the book sells well, can another publisher publish the author book on poems?
Can I legally tell the first publisher to stop publishing because I transfer the rights to the second publisher?


There is another method:
This is to publish to a well known company. However if the book does not sell well, what is to happen? If there is a net loss, does the author have to dig out of his own pockets to pay for the loss of revenue?

Last method: Self publishing.
I find this absurd as it does not mean anything.
(Anyone can self publish)


Regards,


Jeffrey

 

[annaswirls]

Great questions.

I know a little bitty bit.

If you retain rights to your work, you can use the poems in as many books as you want, as long as the publisher of the new book is okay with it.

The rest, as far as I can tell, depends upon the contract, of which there are many kinds.

Chapbook contests: you usually pay a reading fee and get the award from the collection of those fees. Sometimes you get a certain number of books that you can sell as your "pay."

You cannot tell a publisher to stop publishing a book if you have signed your rights away. For example, I sold my non-exclusive rights to some photos and now I have absolutely no control over how they are used. If I would want to use them in my own book, for example, I would have to get permission from the woman who bought the rights.

I could never tell her to stop using them. They are hers.

As far as self-publishing. Don't knock it too quickly. There are some self-publishing companies that require you pay up front for the publication costs, marketing etc etc etc. Then you get a certain percentage of whatever the book makes. This is tricky and I would avoid it.

However, places like Lulu, you do Not pay up front. You do not pay at all. They print on demand. They tell you how much it will cost for them to publish, and then You charge what you want.

So if it costs them 5.00 to publish your book, you can charge 5.00 and make no money OR you can charge 10.00 and make 5 bucks off each book.

I know at least one Excellent Excellent god I love them poet who sells their books at Lulu. Working with publishers can be a pain in the ass, and hardly worth the while if they do not do any marketing or distribution for you.

And That is what I know about publishing.


Good luck!

J

Hi everyone,

I write poetry of many kinds and would want to publish a book of poetry.

Recently I became aware of this thing called chapbooks contest. One gets a cash prize for it that is not much and some books if one wins.
The part that I am uncomfortable with is: Royalty fees.
There are no royalty fees to the author.

My question is this: If the book sells well, can another publisher publish the author book on poems?
Can I legally tell the first publisher to stop publishing because I transfer the rights to the second publisher?


There is another method:
This is to publish to a well known company. However if the book does not sell well, what is to happen? If there is a net loss, does the author have to dig out of his own pockets to pay for the loss of revenue?

Last method: Self publishing.
I find this absurd as it does not mean anything.
(Anyone can self publish)


Regards,


Jeffrey

 

[Rybka]

Ask My Erotic Tale, he is in the process of publishing three books, and must know all about it.

 

[annaswirls]

Ask My Erotic Tale, he is in the process of publishing three books, and must know all about it.

good point, and Darkmaas? Is he still around? I think Angeline knows his secret call. If we get to her we could get to him I think. hm. So who knows Angeline's secret call? She probably knows something more about it as well.

chocolate and cigars?

 

[*Catbabe*]

I recently read an article by a well-published poet that discussed chapbooks. He stated that as a general rule, a poet should have about 40 to 50 publishing credits in journals and magazines before they should even consider a chapbook.

If that attitude is prevalent with publishers then it might be difficult to get anyone to look at your stuff if you don't have that kind of background.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I recently read an article by a well-published poet that discussed chapbooks. He stated that as a general rule, a poet should have about 40 to 50 publishing credits in journals and magazines before they should even consider a chapbook.

If that attitude is prevalent with publishers then it might be difficult to get anyone to look at your stuff if you don't have that kind of background.

That is an excellent advice, Cat. There is no point in publishing chapbooks unless your name can already sell some of them, even if only to a restrict group of connoisseurs. No publishing company will risk their money on a chapbook if they don't have objective reasons to expect making a profit, really.

As far as self-publishing, like anna said, I know several excellent poets - and I don't mean excellent as in very good, I mean excellent as in instantly recognizable, international-award-winning, poetry superstars who self-publish. It means they have to promote the books themselves, but at the stage they're at, their poetry already does it on its on.

 

[flyguy69]

... I... want to publish a book of poetry....

Why?

I don't mean to be curt, but I think that is an essential question. Are you responding to market pressures? Are folks coming up to you after poetry readings and asking "Where can I buy your book?"

Are you hoping to make gifts of them to friends and family during the holidays?

Are you hoping to earn money?

Is the conclusive act of publishing a therapeutic event for you?

I am not suggesting any of those is a better reason than another to publish, but I think the answers can help guide your decisions now. They can help you decide how much of you own time and money you are willing to invest in the process, and how much editorial control you are willing to relinquish.

An any event keep us informed. We would love to know how the process goes for you.

Good luck.

 

[bogusbrig]

Self publishing is not so expensive and worth a look at. I haven't published poetry but I have published a couple of books of my artwork, though I am thinking about publishing some of my poetry. You are not in bad company by self publishing either. Two poets that spring to mind that originally published their own work are Primo Levi and Adrian Mitchell. Many comic artists originally self publish their comics first because of the reluctance of editors to be brave enough to publish a new artist. Also the artist David Shrigley self published his books first and sold them to his friends and now he has an international reputation.

One way of doing it and this is a way I can recommend because I have done it. You can find printers online that will print your work. I travel between England and Holland regularly so I use a Dutch printer that was recommended to me by an acquintence but I'm sure there must be one in your part of the world. This is the one I use but its in Dutch unfortunately http://www.boekenplan.nl/. You have to do all your own graphic work and editing and send it to the printer in WORD.

The costs. You pay a set up fee of around 400 euro then pay so much per book, the minimum order is 100 books. My first book cost me 3 euros per book so I paid 300 euro. Add the 400 euro set up cost to the 300 euro for the first 100 books and you come out with 700 euro, working out at 7 euro per book. Any extra books I want I just have to pay 3 euros per book. So all I had to do was sell the first 100 books for 7 euro each to break even.

Doing it this way requires you to promote and sell your own books but it's your work so if you have faith in your own work you should be able to sell enough to break even. If you sell the books at 10 euro each, you only need to sell 70 to break even.

The format of the last book I published myself was 17cm X 24cm, 96 pages of print on good quality 120gm fibrous paper with 6 pages of glossy photos and a photo on the cover. It was as professionally finished as anything you would buy in a book store.

Of course all this depends on you having the faith and the initial money to invest and belief in whether you could sell your books. I have found that having a book to promote my work paid big dividends. I have also done poetry readings where poets have sold their self published books and the poets I've spoken to said moving the first 100 books was not a difficult proposition.

Just an idea.

 

[bogusbrig]

Last method: Self publishing.
I find this absurd as it does not mean anything.
(Anyone can self publish)


Regards,


Jeffrey

You will find great difficulty in finding a publisher even if you are a nobel prize winner for literature. Publishers are very conservative and usually only look at work recommended by an agent. Even then, big publishers might only publish about ten books of poetry a year and most of the known poetry publishers have their own in house stable of poets. The statistics of writer approaching a publisher themself and getting published are less than 0.5% so realistically you need to look at alternatives. There are many backstreet publishers who promise the world but deliver nothing.

Like any writer/artist setting out, you are probably the only person who believes in your work and if you don't believe in it, it is doubtful anyone else will. Look at it from a publishing editor's point of view. Who is this person? I have had 100 writers approach me this week and none stand out (He/she has probably only took a cursory look before binning the manuscript anyway.). What is it that is special about this person and their work for me to spend time on it? Who will want to read it? If I have another failure on my hands my personal stats will go down the toilet. Hmm I need a certainty.

As I pointed out in my last post, many successful writers and artists self published their work as a way of priming the pump. When you have no reputation, you, if anybody, is the only person that is going to do something about it.

 

[darthjser]

Hi everyone,

Thank you for the advice. It has been most informational and I will proceed with caution.

Self publishing sounds good in the sense that one may make money if the book sells very well. The downside is that if the book does not sell well, that would be quite bad.
The other thing I see with self publishing is that it may or may not be “good.”

I write poetry because I find it beautiful. As a person who has worked in the finance circles, I am looking for profit too.

The economics of the market must be taken account from all points of view. Recognition is important and that is gotten usually through a worthy publisher.

To forfeit reputation and goodwill, I would have to self-publish.

If I took this course of action, I would not know if my poems are any good because the mass market may or may not know what “good” is.

This can be seen by instant stars that make music but do not have much quality to it.
It is true that they rise high but within a select circle, they still lie in the circle of making money not through quality but other things like sex appeal.



Regards,


Jeffrey

 

[Lauren Hynde]

If you decide to self-publish, you may want to look into Lulu.com (which is what MET used, I believe), or CafePress, or other POD companies like those. They work similarly to what bogusbrig described but don't require a minimum print run - which brings the initial investment down a bit, or at least make it more manageable for you.

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

Hello folks.

I have never posted on this section - I am a GB goofball - but this thread was the spotlight on page 1. I have working in this field for about a decade now, so I thought you might be interested in my 2 cents.

You aren't going to make any money at this. I worked for a major publisher who did a couple of poetry books per season, and we printed 1,500 copies at a time. Even if you someone become a "hit" you aren't going to make any money. It is quiet rare for fiction authors to make money, and for poets to make money is even tougher.

*IF* you want to make money with poetry, your best bet is to become a children's author. A different matter entirely, of course.

Other than childrens, there is no mass market for poetry. There is barely a mass market for fiction/non fiction. Whoops, sorry, the other kind of poetry that sells well is religious/spiritual stuff in a gift format.

Are you a decent/or good "real" poet? You won't make any money. To prove my point - no Googling - who is the current US poet laureate? How many can you name from the last 10-20 years? Go stand on an average street corner and askk 100 people to name just one - if a single person can come up with a name, I'd be floored.

Your motivation needs to come from somewhere else. If you are proud of your work and want to have something to give away to family and friends, for instance.

Good luck.

 

[bogusbrig]

Hi everyone,

Self publishing sounds good in the sense that one may make money if the book sells very well. The downside is that if the book does not sell well, that would be quite bad.
The other thing I see with self publishing is that it may or may not be “good.”

I write poetry because I find it beautiful. As a person who has worked in the finance circles, I am looking for profit too.


Jeffrey

If you are serious about wanting to promote your poetry rather than just printing a few books for friends, you really ought to submit your poems to magazines and periodicals and attend poetry readings and begin reading in open spots. That way you can build up a base of admirers. It's the same as a rock band starting out, you need a fan base. I've seen a couple poets eventually get a collection published this way. You could also find a literary agent to promote your work but that isn't easy.

I have too many irons in the fire to take time out for this and I haven't got the stamina needed but you will build a readership if your poetry is up to scratch. I'm one of the mugs that buys poetry books at poetry readings. To be honest some is better than stuff published by major publishers. I guess one also needs the breaks as well.

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

One more thing, here is a prestigious contest for you to check out. If you were to win - and its very tough to do so - it would launch your career.

http://www.middlebury.edu/academics/blwc/bakeless/

 

[bogusbrig]

My better half who is a translator in half of her life pointed this out to me, she translated a book for a private client who promoted his own work of fiction (sorry not poetry)and has sold 5,000 copies, a staggering figure. Apparently he has plenty of energy and I guess you need to to promote your own work but all the profits are his. At a quick calculation he must have made 40,000 euro ($45,000?)but what he had to pay out in costs I've no idea.

I make the majority of my income through my artwork and I found that promoting my own work was more profitable than having a dealer, who would sell my work at three to four times the price. Hmm That's not entirely true, I have a friend who sells a lot of my work for me and is setting up a dealership using my work as the base. It's difficult to work and promote at the same time but if you can it's probably worth your while.

 

[flyguy69]

Oh, Jeffery. I just read your poem on the other thread you started. I should have done so before I participated in this discussion.

If someone is suggesting to you that you should publish you need to carefully consider their motives. Your poetry is considerably less polished than almost anything in reputable publication. Your efforts right now are far better invested in learning more about writing than in publishing.

Trust me on this.

 

[PatCarrington]

Oh, Jeffery. I just read your poem on the other thread you started. I should have done so before I participated in this discussion.

If someone is suggesting to you that you should publish you need to carefully consider their motives. Your poetry is considerably less polished than almost anything in reputable publication. Your efforts right now are far better invested in learning more about writing than in publishing.

Trust me on this.

this is sage advice, jeffrey.

i was just about to type you a similar message.

and welcome to the poetry board. stay here, and learn.

 

[Angeline]

Hello folks.

I have never posted on this section - I am a GB goofball - but this thread was the spotlight on page 1. I have working in this field for about a decade now, so I thought you might be interested in my 2 cents.

You aren't going to make any money at this. I worked for a major publisher who did a couple of poetry books per season, and we printed 1,500 copies at a time. Even if you someone become a "hit" you aren't going to make any money. It is quiet rare for fiction authors to make money, and for poets to make money is even tougher.

*IF* you want to make money with poetry, your best bet is to become a children's author. A different matter entirely, of course.

Other than childrens, there is no mass market for poetry. There is barely a mass market for fiction/non fiction. Whoops, sorry, the other kind of poetry that sells well is religious/spiritual stuff in a gift format.

Are you a decent/or good "real" poet? You won't make any money. To prove my point - no Googling - who is the current US poet laureate? How many can you name from the last 10-20 years? Go stand on an average street corner and askk 100 people to name just one - if a single person can come up with a name, I'd be floored.

Your motivation needs to come from somewhere else. If you are proud of your work and want to have something to give away to family and friends, for instance.

Good luck.

Agreed. If you want to try to make money from poetry you first need to establish a reputation by getting published in increasingly respected print journals and magazines. It's not easy because you're competing with lots of talented writers--and you have to be approved by editors who may or may not think your particular style of writing poems is good. You build a reputation and then, if you are lucky and you have the credentials, you might get a teaching position somewhere so that you can teach and continue to write.

Historically, there are very very few poets who have made money simply from publishing books of poetry. Honestly, you probably have a better chance of winning the lottery. Yes, you can self-publish. I have a few friends who have done that; they did it because they wanted to be in print. They are very good poets--one is a graduate of the Breadloaf School at Middlebury, which sponsors the contest Lady F mentions above. He's good, a talented poet, and is published in lots of print journals, but he makes money teaching and being an estate caretaker. If you can afford to self-publish and you can afford the time to promote your book you might make a very small profit.

Anyway, I think most people who write poetry aren't in it for the money. If they are, they're delusional.

Flyguy and Pat Carrington are giving you excellent advice. Work on your craft and learn. This is a good place to do it. There are many excellent poets here who are more than happy to help fellow writers improve. When you feel you have sufficiently polished poems, start submitting them for publication. You likely won't get paid for it, but you'll begin building a rep.

Good luck to you.



PS--All the recent US poet laureates (including Billy Collins who sells a LOT of books) have supplemented their income by teaching and lecturing.

 

[Reltne]

Free Publishing!!!

Finally! A suitable publishing site for MET and all his supplicants! Here is the perfect 'judge free' home for even the quality of what they write, and it is FREE!!!


<http://www.atbcards.com/ChooseACard/Menu.php>

 

[bogusbrig]

I've looked at the Lulu site and can't help but think I'm missing something. What is the catch?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I've looked at the Lulu site and can't help but think I'm missing something. What is the catch?

The catch is that they're a printer, not a publisher. There is no editorial control at all, and as such, a lot of absolute crap gets printed by them. That in itself has no problem for what it does - printing. But it means that no bookstore will buy books from them to keep in storage. If you want bookstores to have them, you will need to do all the footwork yourself: You will need to pay for the printing of whatever copies you want, then you need to take those copies and take them to the bookstores and convince them to take some of them off your hands. The risk is still all basically yours.

If you want to take the risk, that is. You can simply order one copy for yourself and be done.

 

[bogusbrig]

The catch is that they're a printer, not a publisher. There is no editorial control at all, and as such, a lot of absolute crap gets printed by them. That in itself has no problem for what it does - printing. But it means that no bookstore will buy books from them to keep in storage. If you want bookstores to have them, you will need to do all the footwork yourself: You will need to pay for the printing of whatever copies you want, then you need to take those copies and take them to the bookstores and convince them to take some of them off your hands. The risk is still all basically yours.

If you want to take the risk, that is. You can simply order one copy for yourself and be done.

Riiiiight! It's ideal for promoting my artwork but I wouldn't like my poetry printed without an editorial, even the best poets have blind spots when it comes to their own work.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Riiiiight! It's ideal for promoting my artwork but I wouldn't like my poetry printed without an editorial, even the best poets have blind spots when it comes to their own work.

Well, you can have someone do that for you. Just not someone at Lulu.com.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Jesus Christ. How many times did I use the word "take" back there?

 

[duckiesmut]

You were just seeing if anyone would notice.

Mhmm.