Publisher or agent?

[PennLady]

I need to do something with my longer works, especially since my previous publisher went under. Self-publishing is an option, but I'm curious, especially for those who have had things published. Should I try to send my things to a publisher myself, should I find an agent, or should I work on both?

 

[nomoretears00]

*Laugh* well, considering I was with the same one as you... I've sent my stuff to a publisher. I just signed my second contract with Dreamspinner Wednesday night. And they are by no means the only publisher I'm under contract with.

I say try your luck with a publisher.

 

[lovecraft68]

I need to do something with my longer works, especially since my previous publisher went under. Self-publishing is an option, but I'm curious, especially for those who have had things published. Should I try to send my things to a publisher myself, should I find an agent, or should I work on both?

My personal opinion and with a few months experience(which has included tracking sales by people here I know have publishers) just do it yourself.

I've really seen nothing a publisher can do that you can;t do yourself, and they take a percentage to do it.

You have a face-book, a blog, a web site, you, yourself are a good editor. As long as you don't mind spending some time making a photo cover and doing some formatting you don't need them.

On the other hand if you're some one who doesn't want to bother with "tedious" details and don't mind giving up a portion of your proceeds, then it might work for you.

 

[PennLady]

My personal opinion and with a few months experience(which has included tracking sales by people here I know have publishers) just do it yourself.

I've really seen nothing a publisher can do that you can;t do yourself, and they take a percentage to do it.

You have a face-book, a blog, a web site, you, yourself are a good editor. As long as you don't mind spending some time making a photo cover and doing some formatting you don't need them.

On the other hand if you're some one who doesn't want to bother with "tedious" details and don't mind giving up a portion of your proceeds, then it might work for you.

LOL I knew you'd say that.

And no, I don't want to bother with tedious details. I have little enough time to write as it is.

 

[emap]

Amazon I've heard has a self publish feature. Though you need to edit and come up with the cover yourself. Advertising supposedly they cover for you, though it's only with Amazon that there is any. I think at least, not looked and I don't care all that much anyway.

Now if you want to get a publisher probably best to get an agent. The agent will do the advertising for a publisher for you. They take a percentage of what you make off the publisher. If you decide to get one and not self publish probably best to find out who represents actual authors and talk to them. If they are unwilling they should point you in the direction of other actual agents and not one of those scam artists.

 

[R. Richard]

In my own, oersonal experience, I have found that agents are a waste of time. Many of them won't even reply. Those who do don't seem to have any more influence with publishers than an author does.
The only thing that a publisher does for me is to eliminate one last pass through a book that I submit and furnish a cover. I use Irfanview and stock photos. The preparation of a cover shouldn't require more than an hour.

 

[BONNIEBREA]

I have to second what RR says.

The interactions I've had with publishers and editors have left me massively unimpressed. I suppose some of that has to do with the kind of stories I write. I don't write things themed to particular orientation/fetish/practice genres. I just write literary stories that focus on character, plot, and theme, and are 'erotic' (I guess) because I just don't soft-pedal or euphemize the sexual aspects of character interactions. I've gotten comments from publishers that my stories have just so darned much 'backstory' (English language translation: we don't need to know who these characters are or anything about them, just get to the sucking andm fucking. When I get those comments I always feel really embarrassed for the publisher). 'Erotica' publishers just have no idea what to do with literary stories. But if you write themed narratives ('exhibitionism stories', 'BDSM stories', 'gay male stories', etc.) looking for a publisher might be worthwhile (but I doubt it).

Covers have never been a problem for me in self-pubbing (and I tend to be picky about chosing images). I've gotten most of my cover images from bigstock, and appropriate resolution, non-royalty images are available there for under ten bucks. Doing the rest of the necessary art is not difficult or very time-consuming.

 

[bashfullyshameless]

You need to do a good deal of research before you make this decision. I'm happy with my sole self-publishing decision, but that had several factors pushing that choice (length, internet exposure, etc). I've got a sci-fi manuscript I want to have published traditionally, so I need to get on this, too.

I can tell you to be careful about what permissions you give to an agent. If the agent can "option" a book as a movie script/starter/premise, your book can wind up in limbo for many years and you won't be able to do *anything* with it... and in the end you may get nothing for those troubles. So make sure you know what you're allowing an agent to do.

 

[RodenAddison]

From what I'm hearing, both on lit and other places, to get an agent and/or publisher, it's like going to a bank for a loan. First you have to prove you don't need them.

Anyone working with Smashwords?

 

[estragon]

Roden, PM Lovecraft68. I believe he published with them, now or formerly.

 

[BONNIEBREA]

From what I'm hearing, both on lit and other places, to get an agent and/or publisher, it's like going to a bank for a loan. First you have to prove you don't need them.

Anyone working with Smashwords?

I started posting a series of stories there in February. I now have the entire series (7 stories) published there and on their premium list. Getting ToCs through their conversion process can sometime be a struggle (all of my ToCs were formatted identically and the conversion process screwed some of them up and not others, but with a little persistence I was finally able to get all the stories through the process).

I had originally started publishing with kindle, but the smashwords premium list gives your stories availability through about every major retailer, rather than just one.

As I mentioned in a post above, I did the rounds of erotica publishers at one point and came away from the experience massively unimpressed with the professional skills and discernment (or lack thereof) of the publishers and editors I came into contact with. I'm glad not to be 'working' with them (and, really, at this point immensely relieved that I didn't go signing away any of the publication rights to my stories to any of that pack of bozos). AND I keep much more of the sale price of my stories through smashwords.

 

[lovecraft68]

I started posting a series of stories there in February. I now have the entire series (7 stories) published there and on their premium list. Getting ToCs through their conversion process can sometime be a struggle (all of my ToCs were formatted identically and the conversion process screwed some of them up and not others, but with a little persistence I was finally able to get all the stories through the process).

I had originally started publishing with kindle, but the smashwords premium list gives your stories availability through about every major retailer, rather than just one.

As I mentioned in a post above, I did the rounds of erotica publishers at one point and came away from the experience massively unimpressed with the professional skills and discernment (or lack thereof) of the publishers and editors I came into contact with. I'm glad not to be 'working' with them (and, really, at this point immensely relieved that I didn't go signing away any of the publication rights to my stories to any of that pack of bozos). AND I keep much more of the sale price of your stories through smashwords.

I've had the same issue lately with smashwords. I format every book the same way and recently 3 or 4 have kicked back from going into premium, I keep getting "inconsistent font sizes"

So I look through, can't find any difference, simply select all go the same font that it is and resubmit it and it goes through. They're really blowing up over there and I attribute this to some growing pains.

 

[PennLady]

From what I'm hearing, both on lit and other places, to get an agent and/or publisher, it's like going to a bank for a loan. First you have to prove you don't need them.

Anyone working with Smashwords?

Actually, I've had this impression as well. I know a writer who had tried for ages to get an agent/publisher, then finally put stuff up on Amazon and after one of her stories had topped a vampire romance (or whatever) list for a month or two, she was finally able to land with a publisher.

I suppose it doesn't have to be an either/or thing. I could try two or three things at once.

 

[lovecraft68]

Actually, I've had this impression as well. I know a writer who had tried for ages to get an agent/publisher, then finally put stuff up on Amazon and after one of her stories had topped a vampire romance (or whatever) list for a month or two, she was finally able to land with a publisher.

I suppose it doesn't have to be an either/or thing. I could try two or three things at once.

They don't want you unless you can make them money. The ironic thing is once you're making the money why the hell do you need them.

I'm not quite paying my mortgage on Amazon, but had over 400 sales on 8 titles in July. If I were 'topping a list' as that writer was I'm sure that was a lot more sales than that and now you're going to give up an extra percentage?

From what I've heard(Pilot doesn't seem to be around this week, but I'm sure he knows for sure) Amazon gets 30%, but if you're with a publisher, it's 40% 20 to Amazon 20 to the publisher.

In addition to the extra ten percent you can't track your sales on amazon, you have to do it through the publishers site and trust that you're getting all your sales reported accurately. I then imagine there is a dealy in payment as well as your money is going to the publisher who then is paying you.

Too many extra steps and lost income for nothing.

Short of a major publisher(and I mean print not "E" publisher) approached me, I have no interest in coughing up what's mine.

 

[THROBBS]

.... The preparation of a cover shouldn't require more than an hour.

ACK!

Obviously, for throw away material.



I could say, the same of content; you should have a finely crafted cover, then the content doesn't really matter, you can knock out a novel in a day.



Yup, get a $10 stock photo, if you are "picky" and then all you need is to pick a font (or six) and slap a title and your name on there. You can always use a photoshop filter and make it "fancy".

 

[ishtat]

The preparation of a cover shouldn't require more than an hour.

I have a close relative who has 9 children's books published. She is not over modest but concedes that 80% of first time buying decisions are based on the attraction of the cover rather than the content. Cover art is vitally important both for each individual book and thematically for a series.

Needs more than an hour and probably some clued up advice.

 

[THROBBS]

I have a close relative who has 9 children's books published. She is not over modest but concedes that 80% of first time buying decisions are based on the attraction of the cover rather than the content. Cover art is vitally important both for each individual book and thematically for a series.

Needs more than an hour and probably some clued up advice.

I am inclined to agree with that.

But hey, it's your work, plain brown wrapper might be best.

 

[Firebrain]

I can tell you to be careful about what permissions you give to an agent. If the agent can "option" a book as a movie script/starter/premise, your book can wind up in limbo for many years and you won't be able to do *anything* with it... and in the end you may get nothing for those troubles. So make sure you know what you're allowing an agent to do.

You'd be paid for the option, though, and it's incredibly unlikely that you'd sell those options without a book deal anyway. Agents consult authors before selling options because they have to--just make sure you sign with someone reputable. You still have all the power.

To address the original question: it really depends on what you want for the books. Have you already published them anywhere? If you have, it'd be a hell of a task getting an agent to look at them.

But if not, and you'd like to be published in the mainstream, why not send some queries? (I say "some"--many people query 50, 60, 70 agents before getting that one special "yes").

I've self-published, published with a small house, and still hope to publish with a bigger house eventually. They all have their pros and cons, but it's certainly not true that an author can do everything a publisher can. (Show me a self-publisher with mainstream print distribution, for example. And a top class editor can help you to become a much better writer).

Publishing is changing, and if your novels are romance, you might well make more money by self-publishing on Amazon etc. But there's work involved there which personally, I loathe (formatting, cover stuff).

 

[lovecraft68]

You'd be paid for the option, though, and it's incredibly unlikely that you'd sell those options without a book deal anyway. Agents consult authors before selling options because they have to--just make sure you sign with someone reputable. You still have all the power.

To address the original question: it really depends on what you want for the books. Have you already published them anywhere? If you have, it'd be a hell of a task getting an agent to look at them.

But if not, and you'd like to be published in the mainstream, why not send some queries? (I say "some"--many people query 50, 60, 70 agents before getting that one special "yes").

I've self-published, published with a small house, and still hope to publish with a bigger house eventually. They all have their pros and cons, but it's certainly not true that an author can do everything a publisher can. (Show me a self-publisher with mainstream print distribution, for example. And a top class editor can help you to become a much better writer).

Publishing is changing, and if your novels are romance, you might well make more money by self-publishing on Amazon etc. But there's work involved there which personally, I loathe (formatting, cover stuff).

As Penn Lady stated with the "vampire book" if you get their attention they will come to you. Then they'll put you into mainstream and get you some help.

but you're better off reaching that point yourself.

as for editors, cover designers, formatters?

Okay, I just self published a novel on amazon. Cover? Done by a professional cover designer for an erotica publisher, editing? done by an editor who works for the same publisher. Both at a one time fee over a permanent percentage.

Formatting? Mobi software for kindle, SW? just simply knowing how to do it.

Don't get me wrong, some big time publisher comes knocking with a good deal I'm all for entertaining the possibility, but what we're discussing here is the average author throwing some stuff into Amazon's endless ocean and hoping for a few extra dollars and you can make that yourself.

And if you're that good the publisher will find you.

Maybe I'm stubborn, but I refuse to waste time sending shit off to someone who could very well turn around and steal it and hope they'll do me the favor of taking some of my money for very little work.

This cover took less than an hour, that's finding all three images and getting them together. Total cost $25.

As an additional note this series was copyrighted (as an e-book) for $35 and I have already sent copies of that copyright to three sites I found parts of it on and they couldn't pull it down fast enough.

You can do more for yourself than the publishers want you to think.

 

[THROBBS]

...

This cover took less than an hour, that's finding all three images and getting them together. Total cost $25.

Is it a book about midget wrestlers?

 

[lovecraft68]

Is it a book about midget wrestlers?

Ummm, no.

 

[THROBBS]

Ummm, no.

hmmmm... Why the stumpy tattoo'd body builder?

 

[lovecraft68]

hmmmm... Why the stumpy tattoo'd body builder?

How do you know he's stumpy? He's not next to anyone to give him perspective. And it's the fact that it's how he's built.

I'm in the gym five days a week, I see a lot of guys like this, they're over muscled. I also think the model is "over posing"

 

[THROBBS]

How do you know he's stumpy? He's not next to anyone to give him perspective. And it's the fact that it's how he's built.

I'm in the gym five days a week, I see a lot of guys like this, they're over muscled. I also think the model is "over posing"

Not overly muscled (depending on the goal/image)....oddly proportioned...as if the photo has been partially stretched and/or compressed.

Maybe it is just goofy cropping? meh
No worries, it is well worth $25.

 

[lovecraft68]

Not overly muscled (depending on the goal/image)....oddly proportioned...as if the photo has been partially stretched and/or compressed.

That could have been on me. I'm learning all this on the fly

I'll look and see if I still have the original image somewhere. I also added the tat over the back, but I don't think that affected anything.

I'm sure it's not perfect, but in the realm of e-books and what you'll find there, its a better effort than most make.

If I wanted that through a POD publisher they would tell me this would be $350