Public Comments and YDD

[WickedEve]

This thread is about some of the YDD comments made on My Erotic Tail's YDD is a Ying Yang poem.

I've read many of YDD's comments and they are constructive criticisms. He has given excellent advice on ways to improve poetry. He is a wealth of information and a great resource. He did not comment yesterday. I hope we poets have not lost such a valuable person. I sincerely hope that novice poets (novice or perhaps not) will understand that it is all right to receive feedback on your work. It means someone is reading what you wrote and showing an interest. If you don't like what is being said or you don't understand it, simply email the person and talk to him/her about it. The majority of us who have been here for awhile and comment on a regular basis are quite nice and helpful. We want to praise your poetry as well as make suggestions for improvement. And most of us want the same in return.

I do not think YDD is a cruel person. He loves poetry and sincerely wants to offer his advice. Yes, you may not have asked him for it, but you turned on your public comments and he is part of the public. I know many of you want praise, but if you want to grow as a poet (some of you may or may not want that) then one of the best ways is to accept all feedback and use what works for you. Thank the person commenting and leave it at that--when you can. If you don't agree, then don't use their suggestions and ignore the comments.

Now let me point out that I have nothing against the poet of Ying Yang or the ones who made the comments. And this is in no way in criticism of Erotic Tail's poem or the poetry of any of those who commented. I was simply affected by the public comments this poem generated. Erotic Tail, I think it's great that you expressed your opinions with your poetry. And for those leaving negative comments about YDD, that is certainly your right, and I'm sure others will agree with you. But it is also my right to express my opinion.

YDD, I hope you continue to comment.

Eve

 

[Lauren Hynde]

A huge ditto to everything Eve said. I agree completely.

If YDD has stopped commenting, a great disservice has been done to this community.

 

[tarablackwood22]

I am in total agreement with Eve and Lauren.

If he/she has decided to walk away, every poet here should feel a loss.

The time and effort YDD put in to give honest, thoughtful, and scholarly critique to every poem, every day, was monumental. What more could any poet or writer ask for than a critic who is willing to tell them the truth as he/she sees it?

My fingers are crossed that his/her one-day absence can be explained by a failed engine, or one too many scotches.

 

[Liar]

Just a thought... Since YDD seems to be a quite vocal fellow who likes to discuss poems and poetry, it is possible that he haven't found this place, and thus will not make this thread's aquaintance? Several Lit writers I know of contributed to the site for months before discovering that there even was discussion boards.

And yeah, what you said.

 

[thenry]

So, someone submit some bad poetry and pre-seed it with a missive to YDD in the PCs.

Also, YDD is not flawless. I've been checking up this morning, difficult as "ydd" is too short as a searchable term. 'YDD' uses what I would call the most obvious flaw and not necessarily the most fixable. Also, and this is completely unsubstantiated, 'YDD' appears to be developing favorites more worthy of praise.

 

[WickedEve]

I sent a link to him after I posted this thread.

 

[Angeline]

Maybe I'm the wrong person to comment because YDD has not said anything particularly critical about my poems--though he has found some phrasings he suggested I change, but I will comment. (I usually do lol.)

I simply don't understand why people are attacking him. The reviews of his I've seen have been critical--in the sense that they find specific things in poems he'd like to see people change. He also is quite vocal about poems needing to be edited so they are error free. Why is that bad?

Personally I agree with him. I find the "I just write for me" or "This is who I am, accept it" arguments to be excuses for sloppy writing. If you just write for you why bother to post anything? Just read it yourself. And if who you "are" as a writer is someone who doesn't care if your reader can't understand you or that your work is riddled with errors, then you have to expect that *somebody* is going to call you out on your posts.

Furthermore--and truly no disrespect to anyone--but if you are so shattered by someone else's disapproval of what you wrote then you should NOT be posting. Public performance of any kind invites criticism; that's just the way it is, and it ain't gonna change. If it's not YDD it will be someone else. I think the folks who write public comments at Lit are, for the most part, personally respectful and focused on the poem, not the person who wrote it. I've posted poems on other forums where even with my thick poetic skin, it's pretty clear that the point of the criticism is to be cutthroat and "get" the poet. It's really not that way here. And even if you do get a "you're a no-talent jerk" type comment (I have), move on. What does that have to do with who you are? After all, the comment was made by someone who doesn't even know you.

YDD, I hope that you aren't taking the slams to heart. I very much appreciate every comment I've received from you. If and when the time comes that I post a poem you think needs major work--or even is not worth saving--have at it. I never stop wanting to learn and I'm listening with an open mind.

 

[Angeline]

So, someone submit some bad poetry and pre-seed it with a missive to YDD in the PCs.

Also, YDD is not flawless. I've been checking up this morning, difficult as "ydd" is too short as a searchable term. 'YDD' uses what I would call the most obvious flaw and not necessarily the most fixable. Also, and this is completely unsubstantiated, 'YDD' appears to be developing favorites more worthy of praise.

Yup and I appear to be one, but so what anyway? There's no one forcing anyone to accept his suggestions. If you don't agree, just don't do it.

 

[My Erotic Tail]

YDD is a Ying Yang~

Wow, I truely find it hard to believe that
so many miss understood this poem. After
an E-mail with...the zen master of pen...lol (jim)
I will enlighten those who see this as verbal
lashings...perhaps you should read the poem
and not the title,

For those who don't understand the meaning
of the yin and the yang. There is an opposite
for every thing in this universe. Name any thing
and you can find its opposite. That is a whole
lot nicer than some of the words I seen on
Dear YDD...Well its also the sword of truth!!

I wrote this poem as a (lesson) for every one
feels a need to defend their words and or
creation. Personally I don't find his comments
helpful. They are the opposite of I who praise
all who write poetry or stories. There for I found
him to be my Ying Yang.

The poem talks about dealing with feed back.
And helping those who are upset by words of
critism. Dealing with the inner spirit in a positive
manner not destructive. This was created to
understand why comments stirr us and how
to deal with them in the right way,
I wrote this as a lesson. It is better to show
someone a way and let them discover a lesson
rather than hammer it in them...hope this is
understood as a point not a verbal lashing.
Of course as an event, not rival. We can learn
from almost every thing if we open our eyes
instead of close our hearts...

Therefore this is a lesson dealing with the
emotions and understanding that he is a
learned man in literature therefore he
comments in his own way. I shall comment
in mine. (We) are the Ying Yang

Sadly he has found problems with poems
that I have had published for years,
obviously someone found them worthy.
There is where the same difference
come into the poem. I have found the
truth of YDD And why he is what he is.
Then again same difference.
Perhaps he is faceing his own Dragon now.

Once again this is literary Art, we write
what stirs our emotions and spill out our
deepest souls feelings with words. Some
poeple build you up...others tear
you down. There is a proper way to
enlighten someone. I was hopeing this
poem would show this path.

Then again I knew many wouldn't get it.

Thank you for your time and I bow humble
to the owner of this thread...for I mean no
disrespect only to try and show the true
meaning of my words. This was not a slander
but a night that I dealt with a
woman crying from his comments.

Elizabetht pointed out in the new poems
section this of my poem:

"YDD is not the enemy,
It was the fact I let it bother me."

Thank you, Art

YDD is a Ying Yang

 

[thenry]

I simply don't understand why people are attacking him. The reviews of his I've seen have been critical--in the sense that they find specific things in poems he'd like to see people change. He also is quite vocal about poems needing to be edited so they are error free. Why is that bad?

Yes, his reviews are critical in the best sense of the word. Some people will always complain about criticism because words will always hurt. Especially to those who believe poetry is only a mechanical medium for expression of truly felt feelings. Because people who don't mind criticism must simply not be writing what they truly feel.

The thing that bothers me, in the oddest sense, is that appreciation of YDD, as well as being mentioned in the new poems thread, is becoming more of a mark of distinction and painful in its own right to those who don't fit in.

That thought seems to have been expressed very poorly. I hope you can see what I mean, Angeline. I bow to the needs of caffeine.

 

[eagleyez]

His comments re my poems at Lit have been cogent and well received by me.

I shoot from the hip and dont give it another thought.

...but thats just me.

BTW-greetings to Lauren and Eve and all the rest of you Poet Kids.

Im not around much but love reading the flow of words.

 

[thenry]

Re: YDD is a Ying Yang~

Personally I don't find his comments
helpful. They are the opposite of I who praise
all who write poetry or stories. There for I found
him to be my Ying Yang.

It is better to show
someone a way and let them discover a lesson
rather than hammer it in them...

Sadly he has found problems with poems that I have
had published for years, obviously someone found
them worthy. There is where the same difference
come into the poem. I have found the truth of YDD
And why he is what he is.

Some poeple build you up...others tear
you down. There is a proper way to enlighten
someone. I was hopeing this poem would show
this path.



Perhaps the discussion would be better served if actual examples of contentious comments were provided. They are public and I don't see why transferring them shouldn't be possible. I have tried this morning to see which and why comments of his hammer instead of show, and have not found it.

Instead what I see are generally positive comments mentioning an area that needs improvement. It looks like he is showing. What is the better way?

 

[Guest]

Ya know I was going to stay away from this thread but after stewing about it decided to stay screw it and come out anyway...

Many of us write poetry.

There is no actual definition of WHAT poetry should be. I look at it one way and everyone else does too.

I think that it takes some balls to actually post poetry and stories on this site. We have everyone from seasoned writers or people that are just barely getting their feet wet in this pool of words.

I am with Art on this one where some of the poems that have been trashed by YDD and a few others have been works that were published in poem books, the first one appearing in print almost ten years ago now. Someone obviously liked it and though well enough of it to put it into a book, heck a few of my poems are even read on audio tapes of poetry.

I read poetry. I read a bunch of it for the Friday review. There were some that I just didn't like and others that had glaringly obvious in the light of day errors but ya know what I don't make it my lifes goal to go and crap all over someone's poetry publically. If I find something that I think would work better another way then I send it to them through the feedback function.

And yes the bleeding hearts will say but you can turn the feedback button off you can turn the anon feedback off... blah blah blah... so now because someone couldn't control their urge to a be a dickhead I am supposed to shut it down for everyone. I think not.

 

[WickedEve]

Re: YDD is a Ying Yang~

Erotic Tail:
This thread wasn't intended to be about your poem, but the comments it generated. So, this thread is not an attack on you or your poem, or meant to insult you in any way. You seem very sincere and kind. But some of the public comments directed at YDD were insulting him as a person and not just criticizing his critiques. I'm not sure if YDD has ever verbally attacked a poet. I believe most of his comments are aimed at the poetry and not the poet.

 

[WickedEve]

His comments re my poems at Lit have been cogent and well received by me.

I shoot from the hip and dont give it another thought.

...but thats just me.

BTW-greetings to Lauren and Eve and all the rest of you Poet Kids.

Im not around much but love reading the flow of words.

HI

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I am with Art on this one where some of the poems that have been trashed by YDD and a few others have been works that were published in poem books, the first one appearing in print almost ten years ago now. Someone obviously liked it and though well enough of it to put it into a book, heck a few of my poems are even read on audio tapes of poetry.

I'm not sure what that means.

I happen to think Jack Kerouac's 'On The Road' needed some very extensive editing, and JG Ballard's 'Cocaine Nights' could use a rewrite of the first few chapters.

I'm not afraid to say it in a public forum, and would not be afraid to say it to them, if I had the opportunity. I seriously doubt that would make them change a comma on the published material, but why should I silence my opinion?

Having a published work, if anything, should make you not care if anyone trashes your work or not. Makes no difference anyway...

 

[thenry]

Many of us write poetry.

There is no actual definition of WHAT poetry should be. I look at it one way and everyone else does too.

And yes the bleeding hearts will say but you can turn the feedback button off you can turn the anon feedback off... blah blah blah... so now because someone couldn't control their urge to a be a dickhead I am supposed to shut it down for everyone. I think not.

The second point first: when you say "shut it down for everyone" you still mean "shut it down for everyone I don't think is acting like a dickhead."

Which brings me to a response to your first point. It seems to me your objection is not to differing perceptions of poetic quality, but the fact that someone bothers to actually examine the work of anyone who had the balls to post it. There are many things that can be said to justify one side or the other, but none change the fact that words have power.

So which poem, exactly, did a comment offend you so much? A link to an actual example would be very helpful instead of continuing discussions on what is becoming an iconic struggle over the place of criticism.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

BTW-greetings to Lauren and Eve and all the rest of you Poet Kids.

Im not around much but love reading the flow of words.

 

[My Erotic Tail]

Re: Re: YDD is a Ying Yang~

Erotic Tail:
This thread wasn't intended to be about your poem, but the comments it generated. So, this thread is not an attack on you or your poem, or meant to insult you in any way. You seem very sincere and kind. But some of the public comments directed at YDD were insulting him as a person and not just criticizing his critiques. I'm not sure if YDD has ever verbally attacked a poet. I believe most of his comments are aimed at the poetry and not the poet.

Thank you wicked,

I did catch that in your opening statement
but as the thread grew into controversy I
was just hopeing to enlighten some to the
lesson the poem implied. I know who he
is now and I respect him for him being himself.
I won't draw the sword of thruth upon YDD,
you can';t change the stripes on a tiger.

I was very moved and searched his comments
carefully before creating my poem and chose
my words to try and use this as an example of
emotions an artist gets from feedback.

We all see things differently was another
point I was trying to make. So as you said some
comments come attacking him from my poem as
well as some very very bad votes to my listings.
I fear this not !! YDD asked me if I was a tiger or
a tigger...and he awaits anxiously my reply ...
he got his answer. Perhaps he is with his
dragon of wisdom as we speak to gather his
thoughts and I am sure he will return. For he
is still here just not as YDD.

This turned into a two way street. Comments
to YDD on the way YDD comments. I am sorry if
I stepped on any toes while I was doing the dance
of anger. But once again a lesson should be
learned from this and in a year the same thing
will accure again. Thus is the circle of life.

I thank you for allowing this thread to be an open
forum to discuss this issue.

Thank you and bows humble to all~

E~
gotta love your spunk...ty

 

[thenry]

I'm not sure what that means.

I happen to think Jack Kerouac's 'On The Road' needed some very extensive editing, and JG Ballard's 'Cocaine Nights' could use a rewrite of the first few chapters.

I'm not afraid to say it in a public forum, and would not be afraid to say it to them, if I had the opportunity. I seriously doubt that would make them change a comma on the published material, but why should I silence my opinion?

Having a published work, if anything, should make you not care if anyone trashes your work or not. Makes no difference anyway...

Ditto.

Publishing is in no way synonimous with quality. How many pulpy novels have you sighed and put down after forty pages? I personally find Faulkner purposefully obtuse, yet there are many technically perfect novels that disappoint me for thematic of plot problems.

 

[WickedEve]

Re: Re: Re: YDD is a Ying Yang~

I am sorry if I stepped on any toes while I was doing the dance of anger.

I witnessed one of those earlier when my 4 year-old had a tantrum. I said, "Mommy loves it! Dance some more." Now she's not speaking to me, except to ask for pudding.

 

[thenry]

Re: Re: Re: YDD is a Ying Yang~

as well as some very very bad votes to my listings. I fear this not !!

Do you feel you were voted down because YDD criticized your poetry or because you criticized YDD?

 

[My Erotic Tail]

Re: Re: Re: Re: YDD is a Ying Yang~

I witnessed one of those earlier when my 4 year-old had a tantrum. I said, "Mommy loves it! Dance some more." Now she's not speaking to me, except to ask for pudding.

"OK, now that was funny,"
I wrote ever been goosed by a goose
on the loose because well...for little angels...
smiles...that love pudding..hehehe

................Art...............(~_*)

 

[WickedEve]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: YDD is a Ying Yang~

"OK, now that was funny,"
I wrote ever been goosed by a goose
on the loose because well...for little angels...
smiles...that love pudding..hehehe

................Art...............(~_*)

I remember the goose poem. It was wonderfully adorable. I read it to my kids.
I have some cute poems about my kids I'll have to eventually submit.

 

[My Erotic Tail]

Re: Re: Re: Re: YDD is a Ying Yang~

Do you feel you were voted down because YDD criticized your poetry or because you criticized YDD?

As I stated seversl times and in the poem
I don't write for votes I wrote long before
I found LIT...

I was warned if I submitted this poem that
I would be attacked...verbally and by ratings.
I don't give a hoot about my ratings I not in
it for the contest. I'm in it for the enjoyment.
Writings that haven't gotten votes got a few
the last couple days and weren't good ones.
I only laugh cause they probably are pointless.

I teach my students to whip them with their
minds not their fists...and that an open hand
should be extended not a swinging fist.

I don't feel the need to have two screen
names to protect my votes. Obviously
others play this way. Thats fine if thats
what they want to do. But I believe in honor
above all things as I said in my poem...

as well as "Verbal lashings on show your
limitations...put you energys into your
creations."

So that is what I will do...
In another post I said YDD asked if I was a
tiger or a tigger...that can be found if you'll
click in my signature were it says..."THE TIGER"

After he found out I was a tiger...his opinions
changed...guess I had the wrong kind of tail...lol

Thanks....Art