Protestants

[dr_mabeuse]

Can anyone give me a kind of quick socio-philosophical rundown on the major Protestant denominations? Like what are Methodists like vs. Lutherans vs. Church of Christ vs. Episcopalian vs. Baptists etc?

Here's my preliminary understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong:

Baptist: Biblical literalist, evangelical, conservative, blue collar

Epicopalian: Upper middle class, snooty, conservative, WASP

Methodist: Liberal white collar

Lutheran: more conservative than Methodist. Northern European, Calvinist

Church of Christ: No idea

Unitarians: Very liberal, humanitarian, intellectual

I'm leaving out the Mormons as being a little too extreme to be considered just Protestant. Also Seventh Day Adventist and Jehovah's Witnesses as being too small.

Who else am I missing?

 

[English Lady]

I think generalisations are probably gonna end up pissing someone off *L*

I'm not sure if you're right or not as it seems to vary from place to place and church to church. I don't think the label often says that much about the congrregation inside

Sorry Dr M not much help eh?

 

[NoJo]

Can anyone give me a kind of quick socio-philosophical rundown on the major Protestant denominations? Like what are Methodists like vs. Lutherans vs. Church of Christ vs. Episcopalian vs. Baptists etc?

Here's my preliminary understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong:

Baptist: Biblical literalist, evangelical, conservative, blue collar

Epicopalian: Upper middle class, snooty, conservative, WASP

Methodist: Liberal white collar

Lutheran: more conservative than Methodist. Northern European, Calvinist

Church of Christ: No idea

Unitarians: Very liberal, humanitarian, intellectual

I'm leaving out the Mormons as being a little too extreme to be considered just Protestant. Also Seventh Day Adventist and Jehovah's Witnesses as being too small.

Who else am I missing?

Quakers. I like Quakers.

 

[Guest]

Mab - the Lutheran Church split because of differing ideas.

The branch called Missouri Synod (or Wisconsin Synod) remains very conservative, but more Baptist than Methodist, I think. Women aren't allowed any positions of power in the church at all - cannot be pastors, serve on the council or even be ushers during the service.

Hence one of the many reasons for the split.

The Evangelical branch is more liberal, of course, allowing women to serve and generally taking a less conservative opinion on world events.

The Lutheran Church has its roots in the Catholic Church, by the way. Martin Luther felt the Mass should be translated into the language of the common people (German) so the congregation would be aware of the meaning behind the words. (I wrote a paper as an undergrad tracing the musical development.) The service is similar with lots of "stand up, sit down, fight, fight, fight" and a great deal of call and response from pastor to congregation.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Presbyterians?

 

[NoJo]

Mab - the Lutheran Church split because of differing ideas.

The branch called Missouri Synod (or Wisconsin Synod) remains very conservative, but more Baptist than Methodist, I think. Women aren't allowed any positions of power in the church at all - cannot be pastors, serve on the council or even be ushers during the service.

Hence one of the many reasons for the split.

The Evangelical branch is more liberal, of course, allowing women to serve and generally taking a less conservative opinion on world events.

The Lutheran Church has its roots in the Catholic Church, by the way. Martin Luther felt the Mass should be translated into the language of the common people (German) so the congregation would be aware of the meaning behind the words. (I wrote a paper as an undergrad tracing the musical development.) The service is similar with lots of "stand up, sit down, fight, fight, fight" and a great deal of call and response from pastor to congregation.

Erasmus, a proto-Lutheran, put the case about individual resonsibility and private worship like this:

"People judge my heart by my speech, but God judges my speech by my heart".

Basically, we all deal with the Man Upstairs directly on a one-to-one basis, sinwise.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Presbyterians?

Yeah. Presbyterians. I completely forgot. I know nothing about Presbyterians.

I know that certain Protestant religuions have geographical origins too--Episcopalians with England, of course, Lutherans with Germany, Quakers with Oatmeal Boxes--but those are the only ones I know.

Are Baptists native to the US?

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Yeah. Presbyterians. I completely forgot. I know nothing about Presbyterians.

I know that certain Protestant religuions have geographical origins too--Episcopalians with England, of course, Lutherans with Germany, Quakers with Oatmeal Boxes--but those are the only ones I know.

Are Baptists native to the US?

UGh.

Making me delve into the dusty parts of my head.

I believe, the baptists are an off shoot of a group called the Anabaptists. I seem to recall that group being persecuted in Endgland and coming over here to set up shop, much like the puritans.

The baptists are, I believe, world wide. It's rather hard to say really. They don't have a single Heriarchay or titular head of the order. Each congregation is autonomous. They don't even have a unified dogma.

 

[cookiejar]

Methodists are Liberal white collar?

 

[Guest]

Erasmus, a proto-Lutheran, put the case about individual resonsibility and private worship like this:

"People judge my heart by my speech, but God judges my speech by my heart".

Basically, we all deal with the Man Upstairs directly on a one-to-one basis, sinwise.

And some of us with a bit more sin than others, of course.

 

[matriarch]

I'm not even going to try and drag out the remnants of the studies I undertook during my degree; instead, try this.

religions

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I'm not even going to try and drag out the remnants of the studies I undertook during my degree; instead, try this.

religions

Thanks, Mat. Unfortunately, the link to the Christian denominations is down, but I should be able to find some other links there.

Weird to see that there are as many Spiritists in the world as Jews. I wonder if they make great lawyers too?

--Zoot

 

[cantdog]

UGh.

Making me delve into the dusty parts of my head.

I believe, the baptists are an off shoot of a group called the Anabaptists. I seem to recall that group being persecuted in Endgland and coming over here to set up shop, much like the puritans.

The baptists are, I believe, world wide. It's rather hard to say really. They don't have a single Heriarchay or titular head of the order. Each congregation is autonomous. They don't even have a unified dogma.

The unifying idea is that each congregation is free, indeed, each person is ultimately her own church. Consequently a Baptist church will move in and out of relations with a central 'denominational' affiliation, through the course of its history. The Southern Baptists get together somewhere and issue a position on some issue, and every church, every Baptist, ignores it if it seems right to do so. That's why not every Baptist is hard shell. There are Baptist churches with women ministers; I work in one. But the one across town won't even let women pass the plate of bread for communion.

As I understand it, Episcopalian is C of E. Over here, we don't call it C of E. They have a hierarchy of bishops. Baptists don't have any bishops.

UCC, United Church of Christ, is an umbrella term over several ecumenically minded denominations. They have, as a whole, as the UCC, a commitment to full participation in every aspect of the church by women, and they are moving very very shortly to an affirmation that all UCC churches will be "inclusive and affirming" and welcome homosexual members with joy and full participation.

Quakers, the Society of Friends, make a practice of listening for the still, small voice of God in the conscience of the individual. If your conscience knows its wrong, then its guidance has weight. They are pacifist, since in the end you know organized killing feels like the wrong thing to be doing. The Quaker beard, the neck beard with no moustache, was selected because soldiers never have neck beards and always have moustaches. Quakers have very stubborn and powerful convictions; pacifism doesn't mean they have no fight in them.

Unitarians have no creed, on purpose. No creed, no dogma. Think about a church with no stated beliefs. It makes them very inclusive, but they aren't even strictly Christian, since they couldn't tell you they believe in the divinity of Christ. Unitarian means non-Trinitarian, just one God with no fooling around. They are associated, inextricably now, with Universalists, who really are Christian and believe that all of us are saved (that's the universalism) because of Jesus. What did he do it for if he only plans to save an "elect" by his sacrifice?

There are dour, Calvinist sects who do believe that the "many mansions" Christ refers to are limited to a certain number. 144,000 is the one I heard for it, from a vision of, I think, St. John. Thus, most of us are just plain lost with no hope. The kicker is, you can't tell if you might not be one of those with the lucky ticket, so you are supposed to get wicked disciplined and follow the line. Calvinist is not a church, but a term like Platonist or Hegelian. If a church calls itself "Church of the Living God, Pillar and Ground of Truth," you can be pretty sure you got some Calvinists. In general, success in this world is evidence of the support of God and likelihood of "elect" status. It's okay, then, to despise the poor, since God is clearly already doing so.

 

[Softouch911]

Can anyone give me a kind of quick socio-philosophical rundown on the major Protestant denominations? Like what are Methodists like vs. Lutherans vs. Church of Christ vs. Episcopalian vs. Baptists etc?

Here's my preliminary understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong:

Baptist: Biblical literalist, evangelical, conservative, blue collar

Epicopalian: Upper middle class, snooty, conservative, WASP

Methodist: Liberal white collar

Lutheran: more conservative than Methodist. Northern European, Calvinist

Church of Christ: No idea

Unitarians: Very liberal, humanitarian, intellectual

I'm leaving out the Mormons as being a little too extreme to be considered just Protestant. Also Seventh Day Adventist and Jehovah's Witnesses as being too small.

Who else am I missing?

Difficult question, Doc. But I also think it depends on which part of the country the denomination is in -- assuming you're using this for a story.

I was raised in the Midwest, and your description of Baptist was right on for central Illinois. But in the northeast where I am now Baptists are divided into two groups along economic (and racial, I suppose) lines. Both groups are still fundamentalist, but seem much more service-oriented and more "welcoming" of non-Baptists than I recall.

The description of Methodist and Lutheran was reversed where I was raised.

Unitarians in the northeast are divided into two groups too. One group fits the description as you have it stated. The other group is not religious at all but is more "new age."

Congregationalism, which was an outgrowth of Puritanism I believe, is very popular still in the northeast among "natives," people who have lived here since it was an agrarian area. It is still very active in the small towns outside of the urban areas. It is very civic minded, socially structured, and still Bible oriented. It has actually become "ecumenical," the jargon that seems to be used for 'y'all come.'

Don't know if this helps.




Softouch

 

[cantdog]

Difficult question, Doc. But I also think it depends on which part of the country the denomination is in -- assuming you're using this for a story.

I was raised in the Midwest, and your description of Baptist was right on for central Illinois. But in the northeast where I am now Baptists are divided into two groups along economic (and racial, I suppose) lines. Both groups are still fundamentalist, but seem much more service-oriented and more "welcoming" of non-Baptists than I recall.

The description of Methodist and Lutheran was reversed where I was raised.

Unitarians in the northeast are divided into two groups too. One group fits the description as you have it stated. The other group is not religious at all but is more "new age."

Congregationalism, which was an outgrowth of Puritanism I believe, is very popular still in the northeast among "natives," people who have lived here since it was an agrarian area. It is still very active in the small towns outside of the urban areas. It is very civic minded, socially structured, and still Bible oriented. It has actually become "ecumenical," the jargon that seems to be used for 'y'all come.'

Don't know if this helps.




Softouch

You are dead right again, Softouch. My weird brother is a Congregationalist minister, living in sin unmarried. The Congo church is a direct historical descendant of the Plymouth Rock Puritans, but those guys would hardly claim it now. The basement of the ed. wing of the Congo church on the hill is the area's largest food cupboard for poor folks. The Peace and Justice Center holds regular meetings and teaching sessions in the sanctuary on off days or even late night Sundays. They are ecumenical. Ecumenism is also seen by other groups as another word for "hellbound," since it just might involve tolerance.

The "congregational" part of it is the structure of the church. If a guy is preaching, he can take comfort in the fact that the body which is empowered to fire his ass is sitting right there in front of him. All they have to do is develop a consensus that he isn't welcomr to be preaching that stuff there, and he is out. Any particular group sitting in the pews on any given Sunday is the group which can do that. No hierachy, no anointed ones, no elders, no bullshit.

 

[raphy]

Are Baptists native to the US?

I don't think so. I was raised as Baptist. Church of Wales.

We were the pillars of the community. We got in the way and held everything up.

 

[oggbashan]

The answer is 'It depends'...

The definition of shades of difference between Protestant Churches could be a lifetime study.

The position in the UK varies between England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

In England, the Church of England (Epospicalian in the US) is the Establised Church. The Queen is the Head of the Church. The Archbishop of Canterbury is the Spiritual Head of that Church. There are so many shades within the Church of England that it has been described as being all things to all men. High Church follows the Roman Catholic ritual slavishly. Low Church can be 'Happy Clappy'. Yet both are part of the Church of England. There are branches of the Church of England throughout the English speaking world and most recognise the Archbishop of Canterbury as their leader. It is particularly strong in Africa, so strong that some African churches are sending missionaries back to England to reconvert the English.

Methodists, who claim John Wesley as their main hero, again vary widely. They tend to have a teetotal rule, no alcohol at all, and use non-alcoholic communion wine (dreadful muck!). Some of them are very particular and exclusive with odd rites of their own.

Baptists in the UK would not recognise some of the activities of the US's Southern Baptists. They practise full body immersion as a means of adult admission to the church - hence their name, Baptist. A Baptist church will have a bath or pool near the altar for their baptisms.

United Reformed Churches can be amalgamations of Baptist and Methodist Congregations.

Free Churches are free from denominational control and some are closer to some of the weirder edges. Locally all the churches are part of Churches Together working on social projects, but NOT the Free church. They will not join anything that is associated with the Roman Catholics.

Most Protestant churches in the UK are relaxed about strict interpretation of the Bible. They do not recognise the importance given to priests by the Catholic Church and believe that people do not need an intermediary to pray to God.

The main difference is that religion, any religion, is a minority interest in the UK. People may nominally describe themselves as Church of England even if they never attend a church service. If you count all religions and include those who go to a church service ONCE a year, the church/mosque/synagogue/whatever-going population is less than 15% of the whole.

Og

 

[hmmnmm]

Are Baptists native to the US?

I think if someone came from far away and rediscovered america they would darn sure find a lot of native baptists here. But I will make a wager that these native baptists would not be naked - at least not so publicly.

 

[matriarch]

Thanks, Mat. Unfortunately, the link to the Christian denominations is down, but I should be able to find some other links there.

Weird to see that there are as many Spiritists in the world as Jews. I wonder if they make great lawyers too?

--Zoot

Strange, it was working when I posted it, and just know when I checked.

 

[carsonshepherd]

Has anyone mentioned Southern Baptists? Down here the place is crawling with them *shudder*

 

[hmmnmm]

Has anyone mentioned Southern Baptists? Down here the place is crawling with them *shudder*

There was mention of native baptists

 

[Liar]

Well, all I know is that the major church over here is supposed t be lutheran, and I wouldn't call then comservatives at all...

...and that the most known anagram of "Presbyterians" is "Britney Spears".

 

[impressive]

Has anyone mentioned Southern Baptists? Down here the place is crawling with them *shudder*

I have this vision of columns of fire ants ...

 

[dr_mabeuse]

There are dour, Calvinist sects who do believe that the "many mansions" Christ refers to are limited to a certain number. 144,000 is the one I heard for it, from a vision of, I think, St. John. Thus, most of us are just plain lost with no hope. The kicker is, you can't tell if you might not be one of those with the lucky ticket, so you are supposed to get wicked disciplined and follow the line. Calvinist is not a church, but a term like Platonist or Hegelian. If a church calls itself "Church of the Living God, Pillar and Ground of Truth," you can be pretty sure you got some Calvinists. In general, success in this world is evidence of the support of God and likelihood of "elect" status. It's okay, then, to despise the poor, since God is clearly already doing so.

I had a friend who was Jehovah's Witness, and as I recall, they believe that only 240,000 people will get into heaven at the end.

I always found Calvinism fascinating because Calvin believed that everyone's spiritual fate was already known to God (predestination), and so there was no sense in trying to bribe your way into heaven by good works and all that. The old Free Will argument.

Oh wow. Here you go. Here's a list of Protestant Denominations. It lists 207!

http://www.encyclopedia.com/searchpool.asp?target=@DOCKEYWORDS+protdenom+&rc=10&fh=1&fr=1

Hog heaven for a theology junkie.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

Presbyterians tend to be more liberal. There are openly gay ministers. It's causing a rift within certain segments of the presbyterian community.

Baptists are hard to quantify. There are over 100 sub denominations within the Baptist church. The most widely known is the Southern Baptists. They get credit for being the most conservative of the different types of Baptist, but that's not true. The most conservative sect of Baptist is the independant fundamental baptists. They are hard core. Reagan was too liberal for most of them. I think Falwell is Ind. Fund Baptist.

They believe, among other things that it's a sin for a woman to wear pants because they show a womans figure and cause men to lust. Any music other than christian music is a sin. Dancing is a sin. The ONLY acceptable version of the Bible is the King James bible. Pre marital contact of any kind is a sin, including something as simple as holding hands.

The only thing that all Baptists share in common is their belief of the path to heaven is by being saved.