Protective Parents Need Educating.

[Teenage Venus]

So many parents have good intentions and try to protect their children from 'a wicked world of sex and vice'. From my own experience they do just the opposite.

Many of my friends are those that Mums and Dads - in their wisdom - protected from sex in particular. Every one of them are now EXACTLY the kind of girl their parents had kittens about. These friends were schooled in mostly religious private schools, run by Nuns. Others were just never allowed to 'grow up' with their peers. Sex was always a taboo subject. Mummy or Daddy took them everywhere, vetted their friends, never allowed them to stop over with friends, etc.. I'm sure you all know what some parents are like - maybe you are like that!

Well, believe me, if you want them to be normal, give them a chance. Put a bit of trust in them and they will most likely reward you by behaving with a modicum of common sense.

In my own case I was protected from day one, until let loose at sixteen. Like my friends, I went all out to make up for lost time. Unfortunately we were so unstreet-wise and naive that we were easy targets, in those first few months.

I did a quick count of friends brought up in those circumstances - of the sixteen that came to mind:

Seven were victims of rape. (Four of us gangbang rape.)
Nine had children or abortions in the first eighteen months.
Several of them got STD's - Two I know are HIV +
All of use have probably had more sex in three years than our parents have had in a lifetime.

Now I'm not saying the parental concern is not a good thing, rather, that honest talk and good sex education and advice, and letting your daughter grow up with peers, is probably the best thing you can do to help and prepare them for adult life.

We all learned the hard way, but we learnt, and I reckon I learned more about sex in two years than most adults over forty-five will ever know.

You older ones - or younger ones wanting to learn, check my,
Check my stories/poems ("How to Pleasure a Lady - & Yourself") by a Teenage Sex Connoisseur.


Now to the main point: I'm writing a comprehensive 'Pleasure Your Partner' book, so any of you more experienced that have got tips or suggestions to pass on to me or others on here, make us happy by posting them.

Oh! And if any of you the offspring of over-protective parents? were they successful in their endevours?

 

[cloudy]

So many parents have good intentions and try to protect their children from 'a wicked world of sex and vice'. From my own experience they do just the opposite.

Many of my friends are those that Mums and Dads - in their wisdom - protected from sex in particular. Every one of them are now EXACTLY the kind of girl their parents had kittens about. These friends were schooled in mostly religious private schools, run by Nuns. Others were just never allowed to 'grow up' with their peers. Sex was always a taboo subject. Mummy or Daddy took them everywhere, vetted their friends, never allowed them to stop over with friends, etc.. I'm sure you all know what some parents are like - maybe you are like that!

Well, believe me, if you want them to be normal, give them a chance. Put a bit of trust in them and they will most likely reward you by behaving with a modicum of common sense.

In my own case I was protected from day one, until let loose at sixteen. Like my friends, I went all out to make up for lost time. Unfortunately we were so unstreet-wise and naive that we were easy targets, in those first few months.

I did a quick count of friends brought up in those circumstances - of the sixteen that came to mind:

Seven were victims of rape. (Four of us gangbang rape.)
Nine had children or abortions in the first eighteen months.
Several of them got STD's - Two I know are HIV +
All of use have probably had more sex in three years than our parents have had in a lifetime.

Now I'm not saying the parental concern is not a good thing, rather, that honest talk and good sex education and advice, and letting your daughter grow up with peers, is probably the best thing you can do to help and prepare them for adult life.

We all learned the hard way, but we learnt, and I reckon I learned more about sex in two years than most adults over forty-five will ever know.

You older ones - or younger ones wanting to learn, check my,
Check my stories/poems ("How to Pleasure a Lady - & Yourself") by a Teenage Sex Connoisseur.


Now to the main point: I'm writing a comprehensive 'Pleasure Your Partner' book, so any of you more experienced that have got tips or suggestions to pass on to me or others on here, make us happy by posting them.

Oh! And if any of you the offspring of over-protective parents? were they successful in their endevours?

Not all parents are like those you describe, and to be honest, it bothers me that you paint all those 45 or older with the same brush. All people are different and approach things differently.

Maybe you did learn a lot at one time, I can't judge that, but sweetheart, I'm 43, and I seriously doubt you know more than me about sex. Not that I'm an expert, but I've got decades on you in experience.

edited to add: I know you're young, and I remember very well thinking I knew way more than any of the people in the generation before me. When you reach my age, or close to it, you will be really embarassed by what you just said.

 

[Teenage Venus]

Not all parents are like those you describe, and to be honest, it bothers me that you paint all those 45 or older with the same brush. All people are different and approach things differently.

I was in no way trying to tar ALL adults over 45 with the same brush, CLOUDY. I was saying - or intended to convey - that most over that age I and my friends have experience of - and judging from postings here and elsewhere - most of 'em have less clues about sex and sex practices than their offspring.

I agree that people are different and approach things differently. I'm saying that 'over-protection is - in my experience - is not a good thing.

I'm 43, and I seriously doubt you know more than me.

I'm always willing to learn more, that's why I asked.

I know you're young, and I remember very well thinking I knew way more than any of the people in the generation before me. When you reach my age, or close to it, you will be really embarassed by what you just said.

Maybe, but there are one hell of a lot of people out there over 45 that have learned one hell of a lot in the last few years when they got access to the web, and were fairly naive about sex before that.

Come on you older guys, am I right or not?

 

[Svenskaflicka]

This remind me of that outraged mother who critizised JKR for including a scene in OotP where Harry kisses a girl for the first time. The mother asked JKR not to include such things in her books, but let children read innocent and care-free stories. JKR was dumbstruck - Harry Potter-novels, carefree??? Had that mother even READ the books? Considering all the hellish things poor Harry goes through every year, fighting monsters, being bullied, battling evil wizards for his life, having dangerous accidents, losing people he cares about right in front of his eyes - and this mother is upset that her children read about their hero getting a KISS???

Another author summed it up very nicely: "TV is allowed to show us a gun that takes life, but not a penis that produces life. It is for this distinction that our century will be remembered."

 

[Teenage Venus]

Another author summed it up very nicely: "TV is allowed to show us a gun that takes life, but not a penis that produces life. It is for this distinction that our century will be remembered."

How true, and of a WWW that protected adults from adult material on adult sites, whilst their kids took the piss on their kid's chat rooms and their own sites, and enjoyed passing round the really hot stuff, lol.

 

[gauchecritic]

Personally I am more surprised (and impressed) by 60 plus year olds than teenagers with regards to sexual knowledge and activity.
I've heard some stories. And split about fifty/fifty they are completely unshockable because nothing (and I mean nothing) is new to them.

Gauche

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

It's all my fault, corrupting innocent angel children with my massive tool of accesible porn archives, forcing the kids to explore the world of sex, forcing them to screw early and often, and then forcing them to conquer Ecuador.

Seriously, I had quite a few Christian friends in high school. One of them was so overprotected that he couldn't play Teen rated video games in his senior year of high school. He couldn't play anything or read anything that mentioned magic (this is a heavy fantasy/RPG geek by the way) and so had to do it clandestine for years. He left his parents with such raw hatred that I doubt they'll ever have a reconciliation. All because of far too overprotective rules.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Personally I am more surprised (and impressed) by 60 plus year olds than teenagers with regards to sexual knowledge and activity.
I've heard some stories. And split about fifty/fifty they are completely unshockable because nothing (and I mean nothing) is new to them.

Gauche

Old people know about sex???

 

[KarenAM]

It's quite common for each generation to believe that they discovered the world; I know that my own thought that way. The big difference between the "oldsters" of 40+ and the young today is that today's society is much more openly sexual, which is both good and bad.

It's good in that it can create healthy sexuality, which the repression of my generation and before really couldn't do.

It's bad in that it is used to promise too much. Sex is complicated and difficult and messy, and it isn't portrayed that way in the mass media, much of which is geared toward the young. Instead of having a realistic view of it, I know many young people who don't think they can get sick, or hurt, or anything, by being promiscuous.

You are right, TV, in that parents often react badly to this by trying to repress their children's sexuality, and they get a lot of support in this from social conservatives who are, in my experience, often closet sex-addicts themselves.

So you have repression on the one side, creating sexual dysfunction and often sex crimes, and you have a media blasting sex at you 24/7. What we don't have is healthy sexuality.

But I guarentee you that anything you've done your grandparents either did, wanted to do, or knew someone who did. What shocks them is that people today don't hide it as they were trained to do, and the fact that, as in so many things, they've lived long enough to see the consequences of it.

The web only made porn and kink cheap and accessable. It didn't invent it.

 

[pop_54]

Hmmm... Got to agree with young Cloudy here I think... It takes years to build up a genuine appreciation, and expertise, in acts and matters sexual... Sexual prowess, and the giving / recieving of satisfaction isn't just cocking your legs up and taking a F**king from anyone who's interested and who has 3 minutes to spare.

I had my first tentative sexual experiment back when I was about 11 coming 12... and we're talking real sex here, you know sticking it in, not just rubbing off against the belly mound... I was rubbish, the Earth never moved for her, hardly lasted long enough to flatten the grass to be truthful... But with practice I got better and by the third or fourth attempt I actually managed to make her grunt and moan with pleasure before I had to whip it out and fire over her belly... No condom you see, they wouldn't sell them to 11 yr old's.
She wasn't on the pill, 12 was too young for the doctor to prescribe it back then.

Thing is that was back in 1959/60 and I've been practicing ever since quite regularly... I still don't consider myself an expert even at 56 with three kids and married 26 yrs... Been fun practicing mind you.

Of course there is a cultural thing here isn't there, we this side of the pond have always tended towards not shouting sex, sex, sex, at the top of our voice, while allowing rather more liberal attitudes to surface as and when needed... I believe we've allowed bad language and sexual innuendo / depiction on our TV a lot longer than most countries... In fact British light entertainment is built on sexual innuendo... Proper sex education in schools has been about for a fair while as well over here, real sex education that is... a qualified social science teacher telling it like it is with real pictures and models up front of the class... Oh how we giggled, but we also learned, that is why I always snatched it out of Delia rather than innocently seeding her back in 59.

pops............

 

[Lord DragonsWing]

Well, I'm 45 and sex came late in life for me. I was and still am a romantic. To me, sex was love. That was until the army. Funny how a young man of 18 in a uniform far away from home learns quickly. My parents shunned the converstation. Not that they didn't do it of course. When I walked in and caught them it was a shuddering experience. I slammed the door immediately and yelled YUCK! lol
Today, we have technology that is amazing our grandparents and parents. Imagine what they would have done if they had what we have today. Cable with over 75 channels. The chatrooms of the net. They were active. And probably wish they had the sexual chances we do today. But they weren't naive. The name hookers comes from the Civil War where General Hooker of the Northern Army had girls readily available. The term the rag comes from the Civil War where that is what women used because they had no choice.
George Carlin once said in one of his comedies how technology and the media affects things. He gave a tv show as an example. A western with a gunfight.

"Sheriff, I'm going to kill you. I'm going to kill you real slow."
Now, lets turn that into something that isn't as violent.
"Sheriff, I'm going to fuck you. I'm going to fuck you real slow."
While I'm not gay, I think the fuck you sounds better than the kill you. It's just that parents don't find it acceptable. But kill is. Strange!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Weird Harold]

So many parents have good intentions and try to protect their children from 'a wicked world of sex and vice'. From my own experience they do just the opposite.

Sadly, it's not just parents who are over-protective of "children" -- at least not in the USA -- it's our society and government aiding and encouraging those parents who treat their children as semi-intelligent pets until they magically become responsible adults at the crack of dawn on their eighteenth birthday. Nor is it only sex that childrn are being "protected" from; It's alcohol, tobacco, drugs, violence, "bad words," rough sports, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

On the other hand, not all parents, or even a majority of parents, who are over-protective to the point of crippling their children's ability to act like adults.

I think the vast majority of parents simply copy their parents' actions -- either by duplicating them or by doing the exact opposite -- and have no real understanding of the repercussions of their style of parenting. Most of them turn out fairly acceptable and competent adults in spite of the lack of "scientific method" in raring their children.

It is the extremes of "control" and "protection" that makes news and gives the impression that the "younger generation" is clueless and irresponsible. Too much control and/or protection doesn't prepare childrn for the real world. Too little control and/or protection leaves children without a way to learn personal responsibility and self-control.

I agree that parents need access to education in parenting beyond the on-the-job-training of dealing with a child.

However, I'm reluctant to let "child psychologists" raised on the ideas and concepts about children begun by Dr. Benjamin Spock to have any hand in formulating the curriculim of a parenting course.

The currently acceptable. politically correct, ideas advocating totally non-violent and non-confrontational child discipline measures simply don't work. There are times and situations where corporal punishment and/or an authoritative, confrontational approach works fr more effectively than a years worth of "time-outs" or lost priveleges.

Please note I AM NOT advocating the kinds of whipping that I got as a child or the much worse sort of "corporal punishment" that lands children in the emergency room. I'm saying that a swat on the butt applied at the right time does more to correct bad behavior than any number of words can ever do.

Yes, over-protective parents need to be educated. So do parents who ignore their children completely and let them run wild as soon as they can walk -- if not sooner.

The problem is, who decides what an appropriate education for those parents is?

Would the Catholic Church or Southern Baptist Council be the right choice? How about Dr. Timothy Leary or his spiritual successor, advocating free love nd drugs for all? Some council of leading child psychologists and educators who have already turned our educational system into a high priced baby-sitting service?

Parents do need some source for an education in parenting, but I can't see any way to force them to attend or learn if they do attend under duress. The Internet is such a source, but those parents who most need the information that can be found there are the least likely to take advantage of what is available.

 

[amicus]

We can't even write about young Venus and her 16 years old experiences. If we could, and if she and others were permitted to read...it might be helpful...or it might not...

The history of human cultures, past and present, contains just about every variation of introducing the young into the adult world, again...good and bad. If one can even use those terms on this forum...as all is relative...

I wonder if there are any fathers on this forum who raised daughters from day one. Over protection, restrictions..always apart of teen angst as they prepare to buck authority and leave the nest.

As said in other contexts, I question the results of the past half centuries experiment with more open sexuality in western society. I am far from convinced that it was a beneficial experiment.

Perhaps it was easier in the Scarlet Letter days and in Victorian England to accept the moral rules of society as it was ever so oppressive.

Perhaps the explosion of information and access in the past 20 years is testing the limits of just how much 'freedom' a society can tolerate and still remain intact.

And just perhaps if and when young Venus survives and becomes the parent of a lovely bouncing baby girl...nurses her through the perils of childhood and then sees the first young pup coming sniffing 'roung...just perhaps she might become a 'protective' parent...much to her chagrin, I would guess...


amicus

 

[Weird Harold]

I wonder if there are any fathers on this forum who raised daughters from day one. Over protection, restrictions..always apart of teen angst as they prepare to buck authority and leave the nest.

Yes there are -- at least one.

I raised two daughters and both are sensible, responsible adults now who are wise in more th just the sexul aspects of adulthood.

The elder daughter is the mother of my two granddaughters and the parenting skills she learned from me seem to be working as well (or even better) for them as they did for her and her sister.

I'm far from being an over-protective father (or grandfather,) but neither am I particularly lenient.

 

[Clare Quilty]

My only thought in all of this is how much it would suck to be 45 years old and still have a teenaged kid hanging around!

 

[marshalt]

I am of the younger generation. I'm 22. For the most part I do consider myself socially and morally conservative. I think abstanice (I've been practicing an involuntary form ) is great, I'm pro-life, and all that stuff.

But like most people, especially in high school, I wanted to get laid more than anything. I never had a serious girlfriend or had even made out with a girl until a few weeks before graduation when I sort of got a crash course in sex. The experience was, to say the least, disappointing. I remember thinking to myself, "That's what all the fuss is about?"

In my house, sex was a taboo topic. Probably because my parents got married because mom was pregnant with my older brother. I suppose out of fear that we would end up in the same situation, we were never really taught how to form a meaningful relationship with the opposite sex.

That's not how I want my kids to grow up. I don't want them so afraid of sex that they stay away from it totally. But I also don't want them out there banging anything that moves. I hope they are smart enough to say, "I'm going to wait until I find the right person."

 

[Weird Harold]

In my house, sex was a taboo topic. Probably because my parents got married because mom was pregnant with my older brother. I suppose out of fear that we would end up in the same situation, we were never really taught how to form a meaningful relationship with the opposite sex.

That's not how I want my kids to grow up. I don't want them so afraid of sex that they stay away from it totally. But I also don't want them out there banging anything that moves. I hope they are smart enough to say, "I'm going to wait until I find the right person."

Finding that delicate balance between giving your kids the knowledge they need to be safe and being too permissive is difficult -- and usually embarassing, no matter how open minded you think you are before the question comes up.

In my experience, kids who learn to be responsible for their own actions about life in general seldom need more than the basic biology to make wise choices about sex. Children who are "protected" from having to make choices or be responsible tend to be the opposite.

Your point about being taught to form a meaningful relationship is a good one -- Interpersonal skills, AKA "Manners," seems to be an 'old-fashioned" and Un-PC concept today. "Chivalry is dead" and "meaningful relationships" are dying out for the lack, IMHO.

 

[marshalt]

Finding that delicate balance between giving your kids the knowledge they need to be safe and being too permissive is difficult -- and usually embarassing, no matter how open minded you think you are before the question comes up.

I was in third grade when I got the talk. I had been watching Night Court, and they kept saying prostitute. So I asked my mom what that was. Three hours later after learning words like sperm and ovaries my mom said, "So to answer your question, a prostitute is someone that has sex for money."

I looked her right in the eye and said, "Oh, you mean a hooker?" I'll never forget the look on her face!

In my experience, kids who learn to be responsible for their own actions about life in general seldom need more than the basic biology to make wise choices about sex. Children who are "protected" from having to make choices or be responsible tend to be the opposite.

Your point about being taught to form a meaningful relationship is a good one -- Interpersonal skills, AKA "Manners," seems to be an 'old-fashioned" and Un-PC concept today. "Chivalry is dead" and "meaningful relationships" are dying out for the lack, IMHO.

If, God forbid, I ever have kids, here's what I want. I want my son to respect women. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I'd like him to see sex as way to consumate a meaningful relationship. But at the same time I hope he realizes that you don't need to have sex to have it be a meaningful relationship.

As for my daughter, she's getting locked in her room until she's 30.

 

[destinie21]

So many parents have good intentions and try to protect their children from 'a wicked world of sex and vice'. From my own experience they do just the opposite.

Many of my friends are those that Mums and Dads - in their wisdom - protected from sex in particular. Every one of them are now EXACTLY the kind of girl their parents had kittens about. These friends were schooled in mostly religious private schools, run by Nuns. Others were just never allowed to 'grow up' with their peers. Sex was always a taboo subject. Mummy or Daddy took them everywhere, vetted their friends, never allowed them to stop over with friends, etc.. I'm sure you all know what some parents are like - maybe you are like that!

Well, believe me, if you want them to be normal, give them a chance. Put a bit of trust in them and they will most likely reward you by behaving with a modicum of common sense.

Oh! And if any of you the offspring of over-protective parents? were they successful in their endevours?

My parents weren't overly protective (now that I look back.) they knew I was a strong person but they also knew that at 16 I wasn't ready to make the kind of decisions I felt I was ready to make. Now that I'm older I can look back and see that but at the time I thought I was so shit hot that nobody could tell me a damn thing. I didn't rebel because my parents weren't the type to put up with that. I think that On the flip side it was also up to me to determine the type of person I would be. My parents were strict but couldn't watch me 24-7 so there's a lot that I could have done but didn't, I also did some dumb shit but who doesn't. After a certain point it was up to me not them.

 

[amicus]

marshalt...

"As for my daughter, she's getting locked in her room until she's 30."

I didn't expect that line and it got an immediate laugh. Good show!

amicus

 

[Weird Harold]

If, God forbid, I ever have kids, here's what I want. I want my son to respect women. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I'd like him to see sex as way to consumate a meaningful relationship. But at the same time I hope he realizes that you don't need to have sex to have it be a meaningful relationship.

As for my daughter, she's getting locked in her room until she's 30.

Unfortunately, I have no son, but If I did, I'd hope that he'd respect PEOPLE, not just women. That's essentially what I tried to teach my daughters. I seem to have suceeded s far as I can tell.

As for my daughters, I borrowed Bill Cosby's line -- "... as soon as she starts to fill out, it's nothing but bib-overalls until she's 40" -- as a threat for inappropriate behavior. I also borrowed a trick of my dad's for my older sister -- I spread the rumor that I kept shotgun behind the door for their boyfriends. (My sister has beenmarried for nearly 40 years to the first boy who had the guts to come to the door to pick her up for a date in the face of that rumor.)

destinie21:
On the flip side it was also up to me to determine the type of person I would be. My parents were strict but couldn't watch me 24-7 so there's a lot that I could have done but didn't, I also did some dumb shit but who doesn't. After a certain point it was up to me not them.

I think the point is different for every child, but for my daughters it was around age 14 that I limited control of their actions to "I don't think that would be a very good idea" -- Of course by that point, they'd had a lot of experience in how to make decisions on their own under detailed guidance and my total veto power, so my disapprovl of any particular choic was usually sufficient to deter them -- actually, it still is even though they're both out of the house and on their own.

I think the thing that many, if not most, parents don't realize is that their "job" as a parent is to teach and prepare their children to be independent and responsible.

I maintained a policy of listening to "but, Dad! That's not fair" and letting them make a case for their actions from shortly after they began to talk. Rebutting their defense helped them to understand why I restricted them or punished them as I did.

All children are distinct individuals and it's nearly impossible to train them to be responsible unless you actually listen to them and understand how they see the world at any given point in their lives. Far too many parents not only don't listen, they don't even allow them to talk.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Me and Hubby have different opinions on how to tell our kids about sex. Hubby suggests we tell them they must NEVER EVER touch a person of the oppsite sex until they're 30.
My approach is rather one of telling them that sex is a very nice game that grown-ups play, and that there's nothing wrong with them having sex, as long as

a) they're old enough, mentally, physically, and legally (that would be 15 in this country)
b) they use condoms to protect themselves against diseases and pregnancies
and
c) they are careful when choosing their partners, so that they'll find a lover that's not selfish or brags about it afterwards, but kind and caring and eager to have both of you enjoying sex equally much, AND doesn't brag about it afterwards.

 

[Weird Harold]

My approach is rather one of telling them that sex is a very nice game that grown-ups play, and that there's nothing wrong with them having sex, as long as....

Other than I would never, ever give a child the impression that sex was a "game," I'm on your side. Of course, you know your children much better than I do, but I think stressing that sex is serious business and can have serious, life-long consequences would be more effective in getting them to take the "mental, pysical and legal" stipulation seriously.

 

[amicus]

I know it is old-fashioned, major (ZENON) to refrain from sexual intercourse until marriage...however, since we can't really lock our daughters up until age 30, what words might be written or spoken concerning the value of being virginal at marriage for both parties?

With a truly chauvinistic thought pre 50's style, the knowledge that a man, a husband, is the first to introduce the joys of sex to a woman, wife, is an 'ownership' thing, I suppose.

That the body of a loved one has never been touched by anyone else before...seems to carry with it a 'pride' of sorts that makes the male feel special above all others.

Is this totally off the wall?

I somewhat explore this thought in my story, Missy, posted on Barnburner stories...should anyone care to comment...

amicus...

 

[Weird Harold]

what words might be written or spoken concerning the value of being virginal at marriage for both parties?

Personal opinion -- one that was passed on to both of my daughters AS an opinion -- Anyone who is a virgin, or sexually inexperienced, when they marry is an idiot.

That is not to say that I urged my daughters to be promiscuous, but that they should explore ALL forms of compatibility with the man they thought they might want to marry before comitting to a permanent and binding relationship.

Cultures that insist on proven compatibility and interfertility be proven before finalizing a marriage -- i.e. the marriage isn't final until the bride is pregnant -- have the right idea. (although it isn't a practical requirement for western society where large families are not necessary for survival.)