Proper use of the Oxford comma

[someoneyouknow]

This article is all one needs to know to properly use the Oxford comma:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/high-school-grammar-lesson-with-jfk-stalin-strippers-texas-oxford-comma/

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Personally, I love it. Very clear and memorable.

 

[Handley_Page]

Personally, I love it. Very clear and memorable.

Here Here.

Said a mother from the school looking at the illustration.
"I mean I feel like I shouldn't be looking at that picture right now." "

So when should you look at it, madam ?

 

[Messier82]

Why "Oxford comma" and not just "comma"?

Clearly this must be a US issue as I've never encountered it here in the UK.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Why "Oxford comma" and not just "comma"?

Clearly this must be a US issue as I've never encountered it here in the UK.

Because Oxford University Press is one of the authorities that prefers it, although in the USA it's sometimes called the Harvard comma. It's a specific type of comma, i.e. the one that goes just before the "and" in a list.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

What? Have we not done this before? I remember a thread not long ago on this very same subject.

 

[someoneyouknow]

What? Have we not done this before? I remember a thread not long ago on this very same subject.

I'm sure there is another thread or two (or three, or four, or five) on this subject, but it was the way it was presented which made the topic interesting (IMO).

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Because Oxford University Press is one of the authorities that prefers it, although in the USA it's sometimes called the Harvard comma. It's a specific type of comma, i.e. the one that goes just before the "and" in a list.

Well,no, not exactly.

These days, to avoid transatlantic conflict, it is more usually known as the Serial comma.

OUP only applies it to its academic work.

The Press have abandoned it on both sides of the Pond.

 

[DeYaKen]

Well,no, not exactly.

These days, to avoid transatlantic conflict, it is more usually known as the Serial comma.

OUP only applies it to its academic work.

The Press have abandoned it on both sides of the Pond.

No matter what side of the pond you are, it is just a lazy way of making a poorly ordered list make sense.

Many years ago we were punished for putting a comma before an and. We had to think about lists to make sure they meant what we wanted them to mean. Now they just bung in an extra comma. So far in every example where the oxford comma has been added to improve clarity, exactly the same effect could be achieved by changing the order of the list.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

What? Have we not done this before? I remember a thread not long ago on this very same subject.

Yeah? So? This is funny and some of us haven't lived here for decades and don't remember everything anyone ever posted.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

We had to think about lists to make sure they meant what we wanted them to mean. Now they just bung in an extra comma. So far in every example where the oxford comma has been added to improve clarity, exactly the same effect could be achieved by changing the order of the list.

The strippers, A and B, as well as politicians C and D...

Yeah it can be done, but it's very formal that way. In casual writing the oxford comma just seems more natural and concise, and it matches how people talk when they stumble into an awkward list verbally. I'm a fan.

 

[49greg]

Why "Oxford comma" and not just "comma"?

Clearly this must be a US issue as I've never encountered it here in the UK.

Oh Yeah, in the US people are very falsely shocked at any mention of sex. Parents know that a significant portion of 10th grade kids have had sex and they all know that strippers exist, but they still pretend outrage and shock if their poor little babies are exposed to things like that.

I think it is all about making others think that they, the parents, are moral and upright. And once one parent is "shocked and outraged" then they all have to be. The few that say it's OK are brave. And shunned and won't be invited to the next swing party.

edited: and yes, it has been discussed before, but the teacher illustration is new and deserving of remark.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Oh Yeah, in the US people are very falsely shocked at any mention of sex.

We are? For the benefit of non-Americans, let me suggest it ain't so. I hang with a moderately conservative crowd, parents abd otherwise and out of a large set I know one actual prude. Some people won't shut up about sex.

Yeah, quotes like that one woman being all shocked and stuff end up in media accounts, but our media is run largely by the liberal side of the house (Fox News notwithstanding) and if they get any chance to make white males or puritanical people look stupid, they take it. I wonder how many people they had to interview to find someone who properly showcased the stupidity they wanted to make fu- that is, contained the right level of "human interest". I also wonder if they fed her a leading question.

(Note: not arguing the conservative side of the house is one whit better. It's not. I just know the smell of selection bias when exercised by people trying to create buzz and drive flagging sales.)

 

[sr71plt]

Because Oxford University Press is one of the authorities that prefers it, although in the USA it's sometimes called the Harvard comma. It's a specific type of comma, i.e. the one that goes just before the "and" in a list.

In the United States it's more generally known as the serial comma. (And almost all publishers use it because it makes the sentence clearer to readers than not using it does).

Re other posts on the thread, I think the point of the thread is the illustration used for it, not the question of whether or not to use the serial comma.

 

[sr71plt]

The Press have abandoned it on both sides of the Pond.

No they haven't. Publishers almost universally still require it.

 

[Messier82]

Many years ago we were punished for putting a comma before an and. We had to think about lists to make sure they meant what we wanted them to mean. Now they just bung in an extra comma. So far in every example where the oxford comma has been added to improve clarity, exactly the same effect could be achieved by changing the order of the list.

Yes, I recall being taught along those lines too.

 

[barefootgirl69]

I was taught to use the Oxford Comma, but I know people my age who were in different schools that were taught NOT to use it.

Personally, I prefer it and teach my children to use it.
I am a grammar nerd...and they can have my Oxford comma when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Yeah? So? This is funny and some of us haven't lived here for decades and don't remember everything anyone ever posted.

It won't even be one decade until next year NOOB!

 

[Bramblethorn]

Well,no, not exactly.

These days, to avoid transatlantic conflict, it is more usually known as the Serial comma.

It is indeed, but I'm not sure why you think that contradicts the fact that it's also sometimes called the Harvard comma. I didn't say "Harvard comma" was the most common use, I presented it as an American counterpart to "Oxford".

 

[sr71plt]

It is indeed, but I'm not sure why you think that contradicts the fact that it's also sometimes called the Harvard comma. I didn't say "Harvard comma" was the most common use, I presented it as an American counterpart to "Oxford".

I did find it referred to as the Harvard comma on the Internet. Had only known it as the serial comma in American publishing up until I googled it today, though.

 

[Bramblethorn]

No matter what side of the pond you are, it is just a lazy way of making a poorly ordered list make sense.

Many years ago we were punished for putting a comma before an and.

You have my sympathies; I had a teacher who punished me for reading after I'd completed my work. It says more about the teacher than about the value of the rule they're enforcing.

We had to think about lists to make sure they meant what we wanted them to mean. Now they just bung in an extra comma. So far in every example where the oxford comma has been added to improve clarity, exactly the same effect could be achieved by changing the order of the list.

And you don't need a bottle-opener if you have a power drill, but the bottle-opener is usually a simpler and better solution.

The order of a list may contain other information that would be corrupted by reordering. A blatant example would be something like "The guests were seated in order of arrival: first the Duke of Spofforth, then my parents, Viscount Carstairs, and Lady Helen."

Sometimes that information is subtler. When people compose a list of acknowledgements, the ordering gives clues about their priorities and even about the nature of the contributions they're acknowledging. The classic "I'd like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand, and God" has a different nuance to "I'd like to thank God, Ayn Rand, and my parents".

Sure, a creative enough author can probably find ways around these things. But it seems like a waste of effort that would be more usefully invested into other aspects of writing. How many readers come away from a story thinking "gosh I was impressed by how the author avoided that serial comma!"?

 

[49greg]

We are? For the benefit of non-Americans, let me suggest it ain't so. I hang with a moderately conservative crowd, parents abd otherwise and out of a large set I know one actual prude. Some people won't shut up about sex.

Yeah, quotes like that one woman being all shocked and stuff end up in media accounts, but our media is run largely by the liberal side of the house (Fox News notwithstanding) and if they get any chance to make white males or puritanical people look stupid, they take it. I wonder how many people they had to interview to find someone who properly showcased the stupidity they wanted to make fu- that is, contained the right level of "human interest". I also wonder if they fed her a leading question.

(Note: not arguing the conservative side of the house is one whit better. It's not. I just know the smell of selection bias when exercised by people trying to create buzz and drive flagging sales.)

Maybe in some states everyone is open minded about sex, and High School students seeing pics of strippers their teach showed them, but you must never have lived in a rural prairie state, say for instance Nebraska. Or even rural Texas. Heck even a large town in Nebraska. (Well probably not Lincoln - University towns tend to be open minded LOL)

 

[someoneyouknow]

Maybe in some states everyone is open minded about sex, and High School students seeing pics of strippers their teach showed them, but you must never have lived in a rural prairie state, say for instance Nebraska. Or even rural Texas. Heck even a large town in Nebraska. (Well probably not Lincoln - University towns tend to be open minded LOL)

I guess I'll have to take the outline of that dick out of my back window when I travel through that area next month.*



*j/k. I don't have the outline nor would I. Not my thing.

 

[TxRad]

I guess I'll have to take the outline of that dick out of my back window when I travel through that area next month.*



*j/k. I don't have the outline nor would I. Not my thing.

Take a close look at the freeway map of Dallas/Fort Worth.

 

[someoneyouknow]

Take a close look at the freeway map of Dallas/Fort Worth.

You made me look!